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On November 27 2009 03:24 Chef wrote:
Mildly amused by your classifying Fantasy as a top tier player. He was basically 'good' for one season when mech was really strong on the mappool, and then slipped back into complete mediocrity.
I see two good players (Jaedong, Effort), a couple players who are fun to watch (Movie, Kwanro, Kal, Iris) and A LOT of players who aren't very good right now, but I watch anyway because they have a big name (or are hyped a lot). And also Savior, who I can't categorize because I would like it even if he won doing 4pool every game.
I mean, thankfully there isn't anyone who's a total pansy, and is gonna lose because of a sunken break or something, but most of these players are mediocre. Flash is on a winning streak and has a chance to get back into form, but he hasn't beat anyone in particular (save Savior, but even I can tell you that's not a big deal).
So two 2nd place finishes and 1 semifinal in 3 consecutive OSL's is mediocre? so unbelievably biased its sickening. Fantasy is pretty mediocre sometimes in Proleague (still has about 60% winrate there overall and was top-10 in win differential last season) but he DOMINATES in the OSL. he is unarguably top-3 Terran and has been for a long time
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On November 27 2009 07:36 lone_hydra wrote:
Counting Kespa sanctioned games, Fantasy is 6-7 vs, Jaedong, 2-2 vs. Flash, 3-2 vs. Bisu. Stork is 7-7 JD, 8-4 Flash, 9-9 Bisu,. while Effort is 1-5, 1-6, and 0-3. If this teaches us anything, Fantasy and Stork is more closer to S class than Effort and Effort's like Leta. All the wins come from lesser players. Can't be the best if you can't beat the best.
Agreed.
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awesome trolling by Chef.
Great write-up. Looking good so far seeing how the first 2 groups ended up. Here's to a Flash vs Jaedong finals!!! 
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On November 27 2009 04:58 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 04:55 Chef wrote:On November 27 2009 03:26 fanatacist wrote:On November 27 2009 03:24 Chef wrote:
Mildly amused by your classifying Fantasy as a top tier player. He was basically 'good' for one season when mech was really strong on the mappool, and then slipped back into complete mediocrity.
I see two good players (Jaedong, Effort), a couple players who are fun to watch (Movie, Kwanro, Kal, Iris) and A LOT of players who aren't very good right now, but I watch anyway because they have a big name (or are hyped a lot). And also Savior, who I can't categorize because I would like it even if he won doing 4pool every game.
I mean, thankfully there isn't anyone who's a total pansy, and is gonna lose because of a sunken break or something, but most of these players are mediocre. Flash is on a winning streak and has a chance to get back into form, but he hasn't beat anyone in particular (save Savior, but even I can tell you that's not a big deal). So his bio win against Jaedong on Outsider and other similar games are all a joke right, and he's actually not that good. I place Fantasy in the group of big names. Not bad, but NOT ON JAEDONG OR EFFORT'S LEVEL. Just another guy who can beat up the bad players, lose all important games to the best players, and go about even with every other glorified okay player. Maybe I'm being harsh when I say okay, because okay to me means they never make any stupid mistakes (which would make games boring to watch, but it really hard to do none the less). It's been a year since Fantasy has gotten a medal (both silvers), and in StarCraft time that's enough to say he's not a force in the scene. Are you dumb? Effort has never gotten a medal, and yet you say he's up there with Jaedong.
waiting for chef's response to this
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hi im new i need help i don't know what to do
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On November 27 2009 10:16 biggdogg wrote:
hi im new i need help i don't know what to do
What an epic post! XD I laughed out loud for a minute or so.
Welcome to TL! 
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If anyone, I want Best to win the MSL, just because of what happened in the Grouping Ceremony xD
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On November 27 2009 13:25 MageKirby wrote:
If anyone, I want Best to win the MSL, just because of what happened in the Grouping Ceremony xD
enlighten?
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On November 27 2009 18:54 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 13:25 MageKirby wrote:
If anyone, I want Best to win the MSL, just because of what happened in the Grouping Ceremony xD enlighten?
Every zerg was like "I want BEST!" and he got picked multiple times. Until I was smacking my forehead and saying: "Don't waste your swap on Best. Some other zerg is just going to take him off you."
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only 1 protoss, Flash will take this  .
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On November 27 2009 09:37 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 04:58 Holgerius wrote:On November 27 2009 04:55 Chef wrote:On November 27 2009 03:26 fanatacist wrote:On November 27 2009 03:24 Chef wrote:
Mildly amused by your classifying Fantasy as a top tier player. He was basically 'good' for one season when mech was really strong on the mappool, and then slipped back into complete mediocrity.
I see two good players (Jaedong, Effort), a couple players who are fun to watch (Movie, Kwanro, Kal, Iris) and A LOT of players who aren't very good right now, but I watch anyway because they have a big name (or are hyped a lot). And also Savior, who I can't categorize because I would like it even if he won doing 4pool every game.
I mean, thankfully there isn't anyone who's a total pansy, and is gonna lose because of a sunken break or something, but most of these players are mediocre. Flash is on a winning streak and has a chance to get back into form, but he hasn't beat anyone in particular (save Savior, but even I can tell you that's not a big deal). So his bio win against Jaedong on Outsider and other similar games are all a joke right, and he's actually not that good. I place Fantasy in the group of big names. Not bad, but NOT ON JAEDONG OR EFFORT'S LEVEL. Just another guy who can beat up the bad players, lose all important games to the best players, and go about even with every other glorified okay player. Maybe I'm being harsh when I say okay, because okay to me means they never make any stupid mistakes (which would make games boring to watch, but it really hard to do none the less). It's been a year since Fantasy has gotten a medal (both silvers), and in StarCraft time that's enough to say he's not a force in the scene. Are you dumb? Effort has never gotten a medal, and yet you say he's up there with Jaedong. waiting for chef's response to this
All: 93-48 (65.96%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W W W W L W W W L | View Games
vT: 33-18 (64.71%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L W W L L W W W W | View Games
vZ: 36-21 (63.16%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W L L W L | View Games
vP: 24-9 (72.73%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W L W W W W W W W | View Games
lol... That's why. Effort is beating the players who matter right now. Fantasy is going no where.
I don't really like Effort. I don't know why, but I just haven't gotten attached to him. I want to like Fantasy, but look at who he's playing right now:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/6_fantasy/games
Who's he won against that's worth bragging about ? He has nice stats, but not against the best players... Effort does. Maybe Effort will slip into mediocrity too, but right now he's worth watching as a candidate for the next gold. He's been solid for a really long time, which is what a medalist needs to be. Fantasy didn't really have much competition for his silvers. A washed up Bisu who was never that good at PvT, a player named Luxury still trying to prove himself, then against the only opponents that had any substance to them at the time, Jaedong and Stork (stork who now is old news) he lost in 'close' series. Fantasy getting a silver in weak competition isn't worth much. It seems to me lots of players would do just as well if they had as lucky a draw as Fantasy. Fantasy just seems like another player who had a shot and didn't realise his potential. It's not like he lost to Jaedong and Stork and we felt 'oh, he really deserved that.' He deserved to lose to two superior players. Anyone betting on Fantasy in those games better have had odds.
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Look at the things you said about Fantasy:
''Just another guy who can beat up the bad players, lose all important games to the best players''.
That perfectly describes Effort. Effort is 1-5 (3-5 if we include GOM) against Jaedong, 1-6 against Flash and 0-3 against Bisu. How is that nice stats against the best players (which you claim he has)?
''It's been a year since Fantasy has gotten a medal (both silvers), and in StarCraft time that's enough to say he's not a force in the scene.''.
How can you use that as an argument to why Effort is a level better than Fantasy? Fantasy has reached 2 finals and 1 semifinal (and won PL for his team by beating the current bonjwa 2-0) whereas Effort has NEVER reached a semifinal.
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All: 93-48 (65.96%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W W W W L W W W L | View Games vT: 33-18 (64.71%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L L W W L L W W W W | View Games vZ: 36-21 (63.16%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W L L W L | View Games vP: 24-9 (72.73%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W L W W W W W W W | View Games lol... That's why. Effort is beating the players who matter right now. Fantasy is going no where. I don't really like Effort. I don't know why, but I just haven't gotten attached to him. I want to like Fantasy, but look at who he's playing right now: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/6_fantasy/gamesWho's he won against that's worth bragging about ? He has nice stats, but not against the best players... Effort does. Maybe Effort will slip into mediocrity too, but right now he's worth watching as a candidate for the next gold. He's been solid for a really long time, which is what a medalist needs to be. Fantasy didn't really have much competition for his silvers. A washed up Bisu who was never that good at PvT, a player named Luxury still trying to prove himself, then against the only opponents that had any substance to them at the time, Jaedong and Stork (stork who now is old news) he lost in 'close' series. Fantasy getting a silver in weak competition isn't worth much. It seems to me lots of players would do just as well if they had as lucky a draw as Fantasy. Fantasy just seems like another player who had a shot and didn't realise his potential. It's not like he lost to Jaedong and Stork and we felt 'oh, he really deserved that.' He deserved to lose to two superior players. Anyone betting on Fantasy in those games better have had odds.
In Ever 2009, he was knocked out by Jaedong who was at his peak.
In Batoo, he had to go up against Jaedong, Bisu, Luxury (who was playing rather well at the time), and Leta (who was also playing well at that time).
Though his Incruit run had a much softer line-up, he had to face Stork, the best PvTer of all time in the finals.
Very few players in history have gotten so far in 3 OSLs in a row.
Your other points:
Bisu has played the best he's ever played this year than over his entire career. He's 91 wins - 36 losses (71.65%) since January 1st, 2009. That's definitely NOT washed up.
Have you been watching PL this season? Stork is on fire. Sure he dropped 2 games last night, but 1 was to Sea who's been making a comeback of sorts, and the other was to a zerg, Hyun (ZvP has always been Stork's weakest matchup).
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EPT
