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Crate, although my posting has been rather suspicious, i dont see why you point so quickly at me being mafia. Although there has been multiple clues that have been pointed at me, none of them are substantial enough to warrant a lynch. The only ones that make any sense are Fast and Flashy = Flash, which is so obvious its stupid. As for my behavior, u said so yourself, I'm repeating what others before me have said. However, i haven't read through the thread when i posted the first couple of times. I read the day 1 post and tried to connect clues from it, and Erlend Loe and Decaf stuck out to me, so i did my best to analyze them. I admit, i've made some obvious errors, but still, i have not seen a single clue that directly correlates to me.
From what i've read of your posting, it seems like you jump too quickly onto clues. Either you're just extremely reactionary, or you're mafia and trying to protect Jayme.
Jimtudor tried to close the door in the man's face, but the man swiftly jammed a metal bar in the doorway and used it to pry the door open, then bash Jimtudor in the head till he died.
Many people have already mentioned that the other mafiaso seems sneaky so i wont go there. However, the one that killed Jim seems to be extremely brutal judging from his repeated blows to the head. This could be a reference to Chaoser (from the chaos in his name), Adriix33 (his quote says lifes a bitch. then you die.), or JeeJee (who's quote mentions fear several times).
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On May 22 2009 08:45 Shikyo wrote:
Ok. With that vote, I would like to present another suspect: epicdoom. Reason is obvious, but if you want it, highly suspicious voting and he hasn't posted at all.
Possibly, or maybe he just voted for the heck of it, because no one's gonna follow him and lynch teks UNLESS he is a mafia and the other mafia vote for teks too, but that would be dumb, like saying "WE'RE MAFIA!"
so I don't know I'm confused
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On May 22 2009 08:51 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:Show nested quote +Jimtudor tried to close the door in the man's face, but the man swiftly jammed a metal bar in the doorway and used it to pry the door open, then bash Jimtudor in the head till he died. Many people have already mentioned that the other mafiaso seems sneaky so i wont go there. However, the one that killed Jim seems to be extremely brutal judging from his repeated blows to the head. This could be a reference to Chaoser (from the chaos in his name), Adriix33 (his quote says lifes a bitch. then you die.), or JeeJee (who's quote mentions fear several times).
If I ever wanted to kill someone in my life (which I don't) I think I would hit them in the head, several times. It may be a clue, but in my opinion it's pretty vague.
However, if it is one of those three, I believe it maybe Adriix33, because I'm 99% sure JeeJee is clean.
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On May 22 2009 08:54 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2009 08:45 Shikyo wrote:
Ok. With that vote, I would like to present another suspect: epicdoom. Reason is obvious, but if you want it, highly suspicious voting and he hasn't posted at all. Possibly, or maybe he just voted for the heck of it, because no one's gonna follow him and lynch teks UNLESS he is a mafia and the other mafia vote for teks too, but that would be dumb, like saying "WE'RE MAFIA!" so I don't know I'm confused
Most likely he's just a stupid mafia. There's no way a townie would act like that. And if one did, I'd want him dead regardless.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On May 22 2009 09:00 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2009 08:54 l10f wrote:On May 22 2009 08:45 Shikyo wrote:
Ok. With that vote, I would like to present another suspect: epicdoom. Reason is obvious, but if you want it, highly suspicious voting and he hasn't posted at all. Possibly, or maybe he just voted for the heck of it, because no one's gonna follow him and lynch teks UNLESS he is a mafia and the other mafia vote for teks too, but that would be dumb, like saying "WE'RE MAFIA!" so I don't know I'm confused Most likely he's just a stupid mafia. There's no way a townie would act like that. And if one did, I'd want him dead regardless.
So are you suggesting that you want him dead instead of Jayme?
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On May 22 2009 08:56 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2009 08:51 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:Jimtudor tried to close the door in the man's face, but the man swiftly jammed a metal bar in the doorway and used it to pry the door open, then bash Jimtudor in the head till he died. Many people have already mentioned that the other mafiaso seems sneaky so i wont go there. However, the one that killed Jim seems to be extremely brutal judging from his repeated blows to the head. This could be a reference to Chaoser (from the chaos in his name), Adriix33 (his quote says lifes a bitch. then you die.), or JeeJee (who's quote mentions fear several times). If I ever wanted to kill someone in my life (which I don't) I think I would hit them in the head, several times. It may be a clue, but in my opinion it's pretty vague. However, if it is one of those three, I believe it maybe Adriix33, because I'm 99% sure JeeJee is clean.
I dunno, the killing description reminds of Rorsach in Watchmen which I think most people have seen. Also, I remember that Chuiu used to attribute profile clues to a mafiaso's appearance/personality/etc, so i thought Pyrr would probably do the same.
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On May 22 2009 07:20 Koopie wrote:
Definitely sorry for the profile changes... That was very stupid on my behalf. Anyways, some minor analysis, starting with vx70GTOJudgexv.
First, you changed your vote two times. You went from Jimtudor, to Abstain, to zeks.
Then you were against voting inactives and you suddenly changed your mind when Shikyo asked you about it. Then you were all for voting against clazzi, who has some very minor clue analysis pointed out. Although clazzi has been posting more outside of this thread than actually in it. I would be alright with this if you were for voting a more likely inactive player, like Jayme. This just seems like a shot in the dark for me that doesn't make too much sense when stacked upon other options.
A quote from you: "Fair enough. I know I've seized a bit of a gung-ho take the lead role, but I just want to see this town not fall for foolish things. I know bandwagoning is bad, but I think a blind vote with no justification is just as bad."
And now you ARE for voting Jayme... which seems to be the bandwagon vote. Okay. Although I definitely agree with lynching Jayme, it just seems odd that you're bouncing around everywhere.
Yes, I changed my vote twice in the mayor vote. I voted for jimtudor because I voted prematurely, before JeeJee/zeks/etc put in their bids. Then I saw them put in their bids. So I changed to abstain in case voting closed before I got a chance to read their proposals. Then I got to read them. I felt Zeks was best then I finally cast my final ballot.
I started off against an inactive because I didn't think it would be the right thing to do with this newbie game, because I figured we might see some blues lay low. It turns out it just seemed (on the surface) to be the same as other games, just with noobies. Clazzi I did some background on, and it seemed like similar to his other game he played here on TL where he was mafia.
I started the "bandwagon" for Jayme on this lynch. I said to people, "Vote for Jayme." I'm not "bandwagoning" like you think I am.
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This is a direct response to Raxor, but the post is aimed at the whole town.
If I'm not going to be aggressive and force people to be active, who the hell is going to do it for me? Doesn't look like anyone else is stepping to the plate and if we let the mafia be inactive or just echo others' posts we're just shooting ourselves in the foot.
I'm jumping on clues because, let's face it, what ELSE do I have to pick out one inactive from the group? Yes I'm lumping you in the inactive group here because when I made that post you weren't helping the town much, and I had a clue that I thought pointed to you.
Also, one quick scenario for the town to consider. Let's assume here that Jayme is mafia. Let's assume that the entire town votes to lynch Jayme and you don't have me calling out other suspicious people. Right now the town stands at 7 mafia and 22 townies (my guess is the third hit got our Veteran). We lynch Jayme tonight, he flips red, yay! 3 townies die tonight (this is the most likely scenario). Puts us at 6 mafia (3KP) and 19 townies.
Now realize that if we just agree on Jayme we wasted one of our big assets. We don't gain any information from the voting list! If I were a mafia in Jayme's spot, there are only 2 courses of action I'd think about. One would be to get some airtight defense up and convince the town I'm not mafia. The other would be to troll the thread so hard that no one would ever doubt I'm mafia and the entire town would vote for me so there would be no information at all from the vote list that day. I'm outed, might as well minimize the town's gain from it, right?
If we let this happen and realize on day 3 we have a double lynch and zero suspects, we might well end up in deep shit. Worst case would be we whiff both lynches and the mafia hits three more, which means 6 mafia/14 town.
Maybe my timing here is bad. Maybe I'm jumping a bit too far too fast; I'm certainly not perfect. The idea behind me looking for other targets is to get as much information public as possible and to get as much discussion going on as we can.
You admit your posting was suspicious. I damn well should call you out for it. So should the rest of the town.
Good to see you didn't just disappear after being called out. Going to withdraw my vote for now. I advise the town to pick a second target to vote for so we can try to extract some information from the voting list even if Jayme is our choice at the end of the day.
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Anyway the two "obvious" posts I was saying the town probably wants to see.
1) Voting record from yesterday. Who voted for whom + timing + reasons; who changed votes + timing + reasons. Koopie started on this but did not give as full an account as I'd like to see.
2) Look through Jimtudor's and softer's posts and draw parallels. Why would the mafia go after them? Are there any connections?
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Ok so I went through the voting from yesterday and here is the tally of every vote sorted by candidate then by time
Day 1 Voting
+ Show Spoiler +Shikyo
teks (23:46 18th)
softer (3:50 19th)
Knutti (3:54 19th)
EsbenPM (4:11 19th)
l10f (6:37 19th)
so no fek (7:00 19th) (to JeeJee)
Pawsom (9:29 19th)
omG.[RaYnE] (10:06 19th)
clazziquai (3:30 20th)
Therapy (6:35 20th) (from abstain)
Jimtudor (10:58 20th) (from zeks)
Jimtudor
vx70GTOJudgexv (6:43 19th) (to abstain)
Phelix (7:27 19th)
wurm (11:49 19th)
The_Master (15:13 19th) (to JeeJee)
chaoser (1:51 20th)
Foolishness (4:06 20th)
iLoveKTF
Foolishness
JeeJee
BWdero (4:23 19th)
ydg (5:07 19th)
iLoveKTF (10:47 19th)
Jayme (13:23 19th)
Ra.Xor.2 (5:19 20th)
crate (5:29 20th)
zeks (6:17 20th) (from abstain)
The_Master (7:18 20th) (from Jimtudor)
so no fek (9:59 20th) (from Shikyo)
Koopie (10:28 20th)
zeks
vx70GTOJudgexv (20:47 19th) (from abstain from Jimtudor)
Jimtudor (2:23 20th) (to Shikyo)
Abstain
Shikyo (23:56 18th)
JeeJee (9:38 19th)
epicdoom (9:59 19th)
vx70GTOJudgexv (17:12 19th) (from Jimtudor; to zeks)
motbob (20:05 19th)
Therapy (0:19 20th) (to Shikyo)
zeks (4:33 20th) (to JeeJee)
no vote
Adriix33
sugiuramidori
Vote changes (chronological order; reasoning alongside if I could find any):
+ Show Spoiler +vx70GTOJudgexv (from Jimtudor to abstain)
reason: new candidates, temporary
vx70GTOJudgexv (from abstain to zeks)
reason: best platform
zeks (from abstain to JeeJee)
reason: gut feeling to trust JeeJee over Jimtudor (?)
Therapy (from abstain to Shikyo)
reason: zeks and JeeJee proposed lynching him
The_Master (from Jimtudor to JeeJee)
reason: character role post. Says he might support Shikyo more but is voting for second-in-command; timing right after some suspicion of Jimtudor's "bandwagon" voters
so no fek (from Shikyo to JeeJee)
reason: JeeJee's role-helper post
Jimtudor (from zeks to Shikyo)
reason:"Changed my vote to Shikyo as I feel he is the strongest candidate with the best plan that has a chance at top office."
I do not feel up to trying to make connections just yet so here are the facts I could find in what I think is a far easier to peruse format. 
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On May 22 2009 10:14 crate wrote:Ok so I went through the voting from yesterday and here is the tally of every vote sorted by candidate then by time Day 1 Voting + Show Spoiler +Shikyo
teks (23:46 18th)
softer (3:50 19th)
Knutti (3:54 19th)
EsbenPM (4:11 19th)
l10f (6:37 19th)
so no fek (7:00 19th) (to JeeJee)
Pawsom (9:29 19th)
omG.[RaYnE] (10:06 19th)
clazziquai (3:30 20th)
Therapy (6:35 20th) (from abstain)
Jimtudor (10:58 20th) (from zeks)
Jimtudor
vx70GTOJudgexv (6:43 19th) (to abstain)
Phelix (7:27 19th)
wurm (11:49 19th)
The_Master (15:13 19th) (to JeeJee)
chaoser (1:51 20th)
Foolishness (4:06 20th)
iLoveKTF
Foolishness
JeeJee
BWdero (4:23 19th)
ydg (5:07 19th)
iLoveKTF (10:47 19th)
Jayme (13:23 19th)
Ra.Xor.2 (5:19 20th)
crate (5:29 20th)
zeks (6:17 20th) (from abstain)
The_Master (7:18 20th) (from Jimtudor)
so no fek (9:59 20th) (from Shikyo)
Koopie (10:28 20th)
zeks
vx70GTOJudgexv (20:47 19th) (from abstain from Jimtudor)
Jimtudor (2:23 20th) (to Shikyo)
Abstain
Shikyo (23:56 18th)
JeeJee (9:38 19th)
epicdoom (9:59 19th)
vx70GTOJudgexv (17:12 19th) (from Jimtudor; to zeks)
motbob (20:05 19th)
Therapy (0:19 20th) (to Shikyo)
zeks (4:33 20th) (to JeeJee)
no vote
Adriix33
sugiuramidori Vote changes (chronological order; reasoning alongside if I could find any): + Show Spoiler +vx70GTOJudgexv (from Jimtudor to abstain)
reason: new candidates, temporary
vx70GTOJudgexv (from abstain to zeks)
reason: best platform
zeks (from abstain to JeeJee)
reason: gut feeling to trust JeeJee over Jimtudor (?)
Therapy (from abstain to Shikyo)
reason: zeks and JeeJee proposed lynching him
The_Master (from Jimtudor to JeeJee)
reason: character role post. Says he might support Shikyo more but is voting for second-in-command; timing right after some suspicion of Jimtudor's "bandwagon" voters
so no fek (from Shikyo to JeeJee)
reason: JeeJee's role-helper post
Jimtudor (from zeks to Shikyo)
reason:"Changed my vote to Shikyo as I feel he is the strongest candidate with the best plan that has a chance at top office." I do not feel up to trying to make connections just yet so here are the facts I could find in what I think is a far easier to peruse format.
Good records to have.
About Jayme, trust me, we also have other people in mind. Granted we're not as vehement about them, but I've got ideas about other people possibly based on behavior. Like I said, I think clazziquai is a red, and we'll see with Day 3 possibly, depending on clues. There are others under suspicion. Ra.Xor.2, for instance. Motbob, as well. There are people we're all looking towards, however right now most of us feel most confident in Jayme.
Also, a medic list:
[b]- iLoveKTF
- vx70GTOJudgexv (subject to all yours' approval)
- crate
- zeks
- ydg
- teks
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Oops stray formatting tag :p
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Jayme: do you have anything to say or are you just going to go silent?
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Sorry guys, just woke up. Currently reading through the topic. Will post my thoughts after a read. Btw, are we all voting for Jayme? I've been on yesterday and people have been calling him out to defend himself. Any luck?
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Alrighty, read the last three pages. So I will be voting for Jayme as there are no other solid suspects and he has not come out to defend himself. I don't believe time would be an issue here, since it was yesterday that people were calling him out and yet, no sign of him. I also think it would be a good idea for a double lynch, but only if we have a good, solid #2 suspect. So far, most of the suspicions on other people looks pretty weak, but some others look like they're on to something. We have to find more on the people we currently suspect to be red.
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+ Show Spoiler [# of Posts by Player] +iLoveKTF - 23 chaoser - 19 pawsom - 7 Foolishness - 19 omG.[RaYnE] - 1 clazziquai - 1 motbob - 2 Jayme - 4 crate - 33 Shikyo - 45 wurm - 7 zeks - 19 adriix33 - 0 so no fek - 18 ydg - 5 SugiuraMidori - 2 vx70GTOJudgexv - 45 Ra.Xor.2 - 8 The_Master - 9 EsbenPM - 11 teks - 34 Knutti - 1 JeeJee - 25 Koopie - 7 l10f - 26 phelix - 7 BWdero - 10 epicdoom - 0 + Show Spoiler [Sorted Values] +
High-to-Low
Shikyo 45
vx70GTOJudgexv 45
teks 34
crate 33
l10f 26
JeeJee 25
iLoveKTF 23
chaoser 19
Foolishness 19
zeks 19
so no fek 18
EsbenPM 11
bwdero 10
The_Master 9
Ra.Xor.2 8
Pawsom 7
wurm 7
Koopie 7
phelix 7
ydg 5
Jayme 4
motbob 2
sugiuramidori 2
omG.[RaYnE] 1
clazziquai 1
Knutti 1
adriix33 0
epicdoom 0
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BTW - a) those numbers were right up until I posted that. I refreshed quickly.
b) We have 1 probably mod-kill in Adriix33, for the record.
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Voted in favor of Double lynch coz fingers have been pointed to alot of people. We'd have many suspects next day.
Abstained from lynching coz I know Jayme is surely gonna get lynched. Currently analyzing some posts/accusations while waiting for Night post.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Isn't it funny how we are killing Jayme based on clues? I can recall many many people saying that clues are not good to go by early in the game. So much for that...
And you know, if I was in Jayme's shoes right now, I wouldn't be trying to defend myself either (unless I was some very important role such as DT). It seems really hopeless for him to say anything.
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On May 22 2009 12:32 Foolishness wrote:
Isn't it funny how we are killing Jayme based on clues? I can recall many many people saying that clues are not good to go by early in the game. So much for that...
And you know, if I was in Jayme's shoes right now, I wouldn't be trying to defend myself either (unless I was some very important role such as DT). It seems really hopeless for him to say anything.
If you're gonna quote, quote correctly. Many people said we should go off of day 1 clues, which we're not. The same people said we should wait for day 2 clues. We also happened to pick someone who's behavior seems sketchy as well.
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My main problem with lynching Jayme is that when the wagon started, there was no voices to stem the tide or shift the suspicion on someone else. Like, literally, 0. This town shouldn't agree on anything unanimously, because like 1/4 of the people here are mafia. I wouldn't be surprised (I'm expecting it in fact) if Jayme flips an apathetic townie.
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EPT
