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Mafia VIII [GG] - Page 4

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0cz3c
Profile Joined February 2008
United States564 Posts
May 23 2009 00:53 GMT
#1700
By the way, if I'm not mistaken, you're saying that there are no clues to MBH. That's just not true. RoL, if I'm not mistaken, posted something about MBH before. I can find it if you'd like. Of course, that shouldn't make a difference, because the behavior here is far more incriminating than a clue could possibly be. In my eyes this is definitive; I suppose I must let you guys come to that same conclusion, but I'm openly declaring now that it would be a certain mistake not to kill him. (I'm toning down the posting, but know that I feel fully confident that you're mafia. Not off the hook from me yet. Not until Memorial Day Weekend, when I will not have access to a computer.
0cz3c
Profile Joined February 2008
United States564 Posts
May 23 2009 01:07 GMT
#1703
Behaviorally, he is not merely sketchy. He is the living, breathing representation of an obvious mafia. He's much more than sketchy. If you're not mafia, and, although my suspicions are that you are, please re-read his post again. It within itself is incredibly incriminating. And I suspect that Ace would have pounced upon it if he were still alive. I would consider you to be as experienced as Ace as a player; therefore, I can't understand your apparent, needless, and forgive me, stupid hesitation.

I'll have a reply to your clue analysis before 10:30 P.M Eastern Time.
0cz3c
Profile Joined February 2008
United States564 Posts
May 23 2009 01:14 GMT
#1706
It was directed at BloodyCobbler.
0cz3c
Profile Joined February 2008
United States564 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-23 02:33:01
May 23 2009 02:32 GMT
#1711
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 23 2009 08:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Most clues, like most games, although don’t always use how a person was killed as a clue, they typically do so I will be concentrating on that for now.

Day 1
“Chuiu toppled to the deck. LTT and Qatol picked up the bodies and threw them overboard into the shark-infested waters. They breathed a sigh of relief, but it was short lived. LTT turned just as something bowled into him, knocking him down into the now crimson waters. Qatol turned to see what was happening when a voice spoke from behind him.”


Here we have first off, mafia bodies disposed of to ravenous sharks, then, ltt is bowled into the water which leads to his death as well. When it comes to this I believe the link could possibly be PLEXA

Why you ask? If you google his signature “Spirit will set you free” it will bring you to a tl page here
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81492&currentpage=3

On that page has a picture of a shark, as well as a man with his hands outstretched, Upon closer consideration you see it’s a livecast match, between mbc and lecaf. That picture matchup is of shark vs jaedong, who has been nicknamed kitty for this instance. What do cats to when they attack someone, pounce or leap, and if they hit someone it could bowl them forward.


Going with the style of cat clue as well, SCAMP has a cat in his profile (same sort of link of cat bowling people over) as well as his name meaning
“1 : rascal, rogue 2 : an impish or playful young person”
an impish or playful person or a rogue/rascal could fight someone by charging them and pushing them, as watching someone fall into water would be amusing to them.


Now for death 2 day 1
“Qatol turned to face this new threat, but was unable to locate the speaker. Suddenly, Qatol saw a blur as his assailant leapt at him, planting a knife in Qatol's chest. LTT's attacker came over and helped push Qatol into the water with the others.”

We see again the falling into the water (all bodies fed to sharks) which could refer to plexa but I doubt it.

We have instead, someone who qatol couldn’t see, then lept out at him. This would seem to me that he would be either a small man, or invisible. As I doubt anyone is invisible iw ould go for a small man. For the most part.

This could link to HEAVONEARTH as in his profile he has linked to his mybrute page. Mybrutes are small, tiny warriors, so leaping up into a taller qatol and killing him wouldn’t be so unexpected. As well, his specific brute has ability to run fast and charge, leaving a blurry trail behind him.

MRBABYHANDS possibly as baby would imply small.


Day 2 analysis
“LucasWoJ was fully injected, but he could still hear the brutality even as he fled. The assailant bellowed again and started slamming the now empty syringe into LucasWoJ's face repeatedly until his face caved in and the only sounds left were guttural yells, the squishy impacts, and the sound of blood splatter. Come morning, there would be little above the neck that could identify LucasWoJ's corpse.”


Day 3 post confirms this was caller.

Next death

“Meanwhile, the second intruder, initially transfixed by the brutal killing, suddenly remembered that there was another target and began the hunt. He climbed the stairs and poked his head into each of the bedrooms but couldn't find anyone. After passing the set of curtains with a conspicuous pair of shoes sticking out for the third time, he heard mikeymoo sneeze. He turned around and shot both feet, causing mikeymoo to fall from his hiding place. The man approached the writhing mikeymoo, dropped his gun, and grabbed one of his fingers. He slowly put pressure on it until it snapped and mikeymoo let out a scream that dwarfed any sounds he had made before. The attacker continued until he ran out of fingers upon which time he pulled out a knife and stabbed mikeymoo in the throat. As his life left him, mikeymoo chuckled at the absurdity of the knife solving the problem of his hoarse, sore throat.”

This entire sequence has the feeling of a sense of surrealness. Someone who remembered there was another person to kill. So he went and looked into bedrooms, one at a time. Finds his target and attacks, first immobilizing them, then cruely torturing before the final kill.

A link to this could be TRICODE quotation “1 2, he is coming for you” line which is a reference to freddy krugar. Who is a serial killer, who kills people. So one room at a time he persued his victim, till he found him, and slowly killed him.

Many others have commented earlier how they thought this might point to dreamflower as it seemed to be like a dream, well, freddy killed people in dreams.

Also connection to SCARAMANGA. As he stopped to observe the first attack before he moved on to his own victim. One of the people in profile referenced is kangmin, ie nal_ra who is currently a commentator in korea, hense he would stop to watch.

He also has by.flash or young ho and Shine or sang won listed. Both of which are players who would pursue their opponent to the end, preventing them from being able to fight them again. Breaking of the fingers could symbolize the inability of mikeymoo to ever compete against them in their sport again?

Weak link but exists

Kill 3
“In a different part of town, Fishball was running for his life. His left arm was hanging uselessly at his side, the result of a blow from the man calmly following him. Fishball finally reached the tool shed behind his house. He started fumbling with the lock in an attempt to get the axe inside. He got the door open in time for a kick from his pursuer to knock him to the floor. Fishball coughed while the other man surveyed the inside of the shed. Having made his selection, the attacker grabbed one of the tools leaning against the inside of the shed and kneeled down next to Fishball.

"This would have been a lot less painful for you if you had faced me like a man. You need to develop a stronger backbone; I am going to help you with that," quipped the hit man.

He then shoved the rake in his hand into Fishball from behind, handle first, as far as he could. He left Fishball flailing on the ground, coming to terms with his newfound confidence but lacking the strength to do anything with it except die.”

I would suggest that this links to REBIRTHOFLEGEND.

He has a quotation of a ban by hot_bid

“Reason: I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you want to troll, I can tell you I have no patience for that. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long moderation career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you stop the stupidity now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, in one week, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will ban you.”


This would suggest to me that he is possibly red. As Fishball was sporting a limped arm, much like he ad been warned once before? Then because he didn’t learn, he is chased, and killed, and at the end makes it seem as if he learned the error of his ways.


Day 3
First kill
“"Well, if you aren't going to cook anything for us..."

The smaller man snapped his fingers and infundibulum burst into flames.”

Possible linkage to TRICODE, as freddy Krueger kills people in dreams by bursting them into flames.

Possible link to HEAVONEARTH as of his tiny mybrute, and I know grenades are weapons in that game,

REBIRTHOFLEGEND as in the sense of the poem he has it ends with explode, something could have burst and lit infundi on fire.

Second kill
“L hunched in the corner of the freezer, trying to make himself as small as possible. The banging on the freezer door was only interrupted by infundibulum's screams. The screams went from muffled to painfully loud as the larger man finally managed to solve the problem posed by the door. He quickly spotted L and started punching him repeatedly. Surprisingly, the blows didn't seem to hurt L as much as he had expected. With the hope of escape now flashing before him, L looked for something to ward off the attacker. He immediately noticed that infundibulum had clearly not defrosted the freezer in months. He was thankful. He broke off one of the icicles and tried to stab his attacker's face with it, but he couldn’t figure out exactly where to stab. L was trying to sort out his confusion when a blow from a blunt object crushed his head. L toppled to the floor. The larger man left the door ajar as he left, ensuring that the freezer would get its long overdue defrosting.”

This fight reminds of a HEAVONEARTH, as well, mybrute character, runs in attacks and punches, hes smaller so his fists wouldn’t do the type of damage you would expect. Next, because of his size, you would have a harder time hitting him.



The death could also link to TRICODE.
This is because the death happened in 3 stages, the first two times fail, and the third succeeds. 1st time when L flees, second when his first hit fails to kill L, third time when he finishes L off just before he is stabbed by an icicle. This could point to him as well.



Third kill was on caller by dreamflower, im assuming we can skip it. I would also note

Last kill
“Someone exited the hotel into the garden in time to see this struggle unfold. He charged towards the struggle and rammed into the plant. The jaws unclenched and Caller’s bones spilled to the ground. Letting out a cry, the would-be savior pulled on the stem until the plant was uprooted. He proceeded to trample dreamflower until only green goo remained.”

Not entirely sure on this one.



Some thoughts.

"They breathed a sigh of relief, but it was short lived. LTT turned just as something bowled into him, knocking him down into the now crimson waters." Where do you see a cat-like description here? I'm missing it. I would hardly call the action "bowled" cat-like. Kinda strong for a cat-like person to simply knock a person down into the crimson waters. I think.

For your second clue, did you consider that the person could be hiding? Is that not suggested in the reading? It doesn't seem like you've explored all possible options here. I don't even think that it has to link to someone who is small. It could be someone who's incredibly quick, who's evasive, who's hiding, essentially anyone who would not be in Qatol's line of sight.

Saying "Day 2 analysis
“LucasWoJ was fully injected, but he could still hear the brutality even as he fled. The assailant bellowed again and started slamming the now empty syringe into LucasWoJ's face repeatedly until his face caved in and the only sounds left were guttural yells, the squishy impacts, and the sound of blood splatter. Come morning, there would be little above the neck that could identify LucasWoJ's corpse.”


Day 3 post confirms this was caller." doesn't legitimize your argument. Glad you made it explicit to the town, however.

The mikeymoo clues seem more sadistic than surrealist to me. Might just be my perspective. I think we ought to focus on the last line, however. It seems far different from the tone of the rest of the passage: "As his life left him, mikeymoo chuckled at the absurdity of the knife solving the problem of his hoarse, sore throat.”

I don't see how the fact that Nal_ra is a commentator has anything to do with watching. I really don't see it. Please elaborate.

What relevance does this have to anything? Especially to the mafia topic? "Breaking of the fingers could symbolize the inability of mikeymoo to ever compete against them in their sport again?" What I mean is could you expand on this? You're essentially leaving hanging a thought. It doesn't seem like your going anywhere with it; please do.

Your analysis of RoL seems fair enough.

But it seems like you're focusing on specific people: Scamp, RoL, Tricode, HeavonEarth.

That's not really fair. LTT and Qatol would NOT simply use these four, if they are indeed mafia, and I suspect that at least one is not, in three days' time.

Edit: Spoilered.
0cz3c
Profile Joined February 2008
United States564 Posts
May 25 2009 23:53 GMT
#2103
On May 25 2009 05:47 Mynock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2009 05:20 HeavOnEarth wrote:
as a townie i must say i was pleasantly(?) surprised/ confused when mafia decided to throw the game.


After what has happened, MBH was a goner, and Showtime! has overexposed himself as well (I even promised Tricode I'd re-read all of Showtime!'s posts and find out if what he and BC did was intentional, that is, if they're Mafia). I haven't ever imagined BC as Mafia tho (same as nemY, really), too much exposure for a Mafiosi. Like I said, by that time it was MBH vs MTF, and even I would have been convinced of MTF's innocence after that. Lol, sorry for calling your clue analysis worthless MTF, just goes to show how I have no idea about clues.

Also, sorry Tricode, but even tho I really thought you were green all the way (as I told u in PMs), lynching you would still have been a good sacrifice, because we'd get to both Showtime! and BC . You played good tho, even when accused, from your defense you looked completely innocent, it's just that PM blunder that got you screwed. By comparison, 0cz's defense was utter insanity, I didn't even bother to read any of it, because it made my eyes bleed after the first 10 lines. He could have cleared himself pretty calmly and convincingly, but he basically dug his own grave there.




See Mynock, this was your problem: " By comparison, 0cz's defense was utter insanity, I didn't even bother to read any of it, because it made my eyes bleed after the first 10 lines."

That's why you voted against me, and that's why you thought it was illogical. >.>
0cz3c
Profile Joined February 2008
United States564 Posts
May 25 2009 23:55 GMT
#2104
On May 25 2009 09:01 Incognito wrote:
Sigh. The end of game comments. The time where everyone yells about how they knew X and Y were mafia and how Z was MVP because he guessed correctly that X and Y were mafia...

A while ago (don't remember when, but I think it was after a game where mafia got completely destroyed), we discussed how most people didn't know how to play mafia well. Well, now that's kinda different. People know how to play mafia decently, they don't know how to play town well. Seriously all of this "I knew X and Y were mafia from day 2" BS doesn't matter if nobody can trust you as town. The yelling and other chaotic tactics employed by L/0cz3c/Ace don't help the town either. This style behavior makes it fairly easy for them to hide when they are in fact mafia. The ambiguity and chaos caused does not help the town.

Its not the town's responsibility to figure out what you're really trying to say. Its not the town's responsibility to "read objectively". The only reason you'd have to post emotionally is when you're mafia. Its not your job to be right then act strangely arrogantly just because you are right. Its your job to make the town think you're innocent, then proceed accordingly. I think that people like Ace play this game simply to prove that they are right. They yell a lot, get themselves lynched, then yell back at the town saying how they suck and that they were too blind to see what was in front of them...It doesn't help at all. All it gives them is bragging rights to tell the town how they were right all along and that the town is stupid. At the point where you start bulldogging you might as well be dead. They are useless to you alive. Nobody will or wants to or even should listen to you KNOWING WHAT THEY KNOW at that point. Of course in retrospect you can yell at them and say how they suck, but it makes no sense when AT THE MOMENT you are just bringing suspicion onto yourself and not helping the town.

A lot of townies did not do their job to make it clear that they were town aligned. I won't mention names but seriously you can't expect to construct poor defense, appear out of nowhere with accusations, and yell when there are better things you can be doing to help the town. Painting yourself as a target does not help the town at all. A townie's first job is not to find mafia. It is to make sure that he looks like a townie. Otherwise looking for mafia is hopeless. A lot of townies made themselves very suspicious. Mafia capitalized on this fact. As a rule, concern yourself with taking care of your own role before looking at other people's roles.


I didn't employ chaos tactics after MBH said I'm mafia.
0cz3c
Profile Joined February 2008
United States564 Posts
May 25 2009 23:59 GMT
#2105
On May 26 2009 00:58 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Tricode and L, calm the fuck down. Who the fuck cares who did better? We all sucked for the most part. You are basically arguing over whose shit stinks the least.

oh and I probably wouldn't of lynched 0cz3c if he didn't try the bodyguard role claim and mod kill himself. It seemed like a mafias stupid attempt to say alive. Until then I thought MBH clue analysis sucked.



Heh. I didn't try the bodyguard roleclaim (not entirely sure about what you're talking, however).

("Wouldn't have" by the way)
0cz3c
Profile Joined February 2008
United States564 Posts
May 26 2009 00:08 GMT
#2107
MTF was by far the best player this game, at least for the town. He did the only excellent clue analysis in this game. His analysis of my situation against MBH was incredibly logical and persuasive, at least for me. And he did all this with the town not even considering to kill him. It was very well done.

So, BC, I felt convinced you were mafia. I was hoping MBH and you would die the first day. Then MTF posted the vivi analysis, and I switched my vote on someone substantiated by clues. At this point I thought it was fairly obvious Showtime was mafia. My post against him at one point was in now way aggressive; yet, he pretended that it was [and then he continued with the same hopeless, repetitious phrases]. Couldn't continue simply accusing everyone left and right (although most were mafia. Heh.) until MBH came up red. Hoped to come back from the weekend with two mafia dead and me still alive.


I thought L played very well, by the way. I don't think that there could have been a more conspicuous green/blue (although I had thought that he was green).
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