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On March 17 2008 03:01 Chuiu wrote: People have about 10 more hours before I send out roles and make the day post.
EDIT: Updated count is 113
Hmm, does this mean that people may no longer confirm their participation? Because I assume that assigning roles takes some time, and if they tell you at the last second then do they become an automatic Towny?
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On March 17 2008 11:39 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: oh people haven't confirmed? theres hope for me yet! :D
When I first read this, I was like: what? Then I browsed the first post and I was amazed. We have a waiting list! Lol! It's like we're a collage or something! But since only 123 people confirmed so far, anybody who wants to play can pretty much sign up right now.
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A lot of the inactive people from last game got bumped onto the list. Out of the 160 people we have roughly 120, so around 40 people are inactive or dead. That is around half of last game, and if I remember correctly, only half the town was active and everybody was complaining, so it makes sense. This whole confirmation requirement was made to root out the inactive in the first place.
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Ha, another one of those black border 4chan images with funny commentary, they never get old. I think I still have one of those in my profile. Anyways, Randombum, you seem like a valid candidate because you are very active, however you need more reasons for people to vote for you. I suggest besides making logical arguments you could emotionally connect with the public. The campaign image is a good start, it got some people to smile, but I suggest making more funny image campaign promoters. You can also earn the respect of the public by posting really well, outwitting everyone, and always having a better answer. Present yourself to the public with confidence, leadership, pride, and strategy! Design a plan, stick to it, advertise it, and it will do wonders for your mayoral campaign.
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On March 18 2008 12:31 randombum wrote: If I was able to outwit everyone, or have a better answer than them I would make a potentially very dangerous candidate. Consider, everything I say is perfect, I can change the minds of a convinced crowd into another opinion, but even when I'm wrong I can convince them that they are wrong. A person with such good persuasion would probably become mayor.
That is what you recommend I do, but if I were that good, and (I'm not) if I was a mafia, then the town would be in huge trouble. I will never tell you what to do, but simply to provide what evidence I get (hopefully I can convince the town to send me roles and do what hotzhot did last game which helped the townies alot), and/or how I interpret it. Right now my main tactic is to get my name out there and hope that people who don't care too much about mayor will give it to the person who wants it most.
P.S. I wish chuiu would post when he's going to start handing out roles, I'm so anxious.
I didn't say not to listen, I just said to have a better answer.
Example:
player1: Hello everyone I think we should kill player5 because (reason)
player2: Well if you look closely at the clues, they relate to player9 because (reason)
player1: That is a thought to consider, but player5 is also (so and so) and player9 is (so and so), I will look into the matter more attentively however for now my opinion on player5 is still unchanged.
See what happened? Player1 considered player2's argument but still declared he had a backbone by mentioning his theory on player5 still stands. Therefore, player2 now sides with player1 and has gained respect for him. Even though you accept someone else's opinion you still have a better answer and can dominate the situation, thus earning respect from the person, and any onlookers who happen to notice your interaction.
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On March 18 2008 13:03 randombum wrote: How can you define better answer though? Player2 still has his reasons for player 9 and player1 has not convinced anybody. He has merely said: "Hey you may be right and I will consider it, but I will stick to my original opinion." However, I agree with the way you have it set it. That is, people sharing opinions and ideas with respect given all around. (stop the hate?)
I also concede the fact that having a better answer would be a good thing. I was just pointing out that having a better answer all the time and able to change other people's opinion may not be the best mayoral candidate. Imagine somebody able to change other people's opinions very easily. He would be a very strong mayor IF he had perfect information, whereas a mafia with that ability has all the information he needs. This skill would help a mafia mayor more than a townie mayor.
Of course, every skill in the wrong hands can ultimately be abused. The mayor is the leader (or should be the leader) of the town discussion. In order for the mayor role to be effective he has to make some decisions. The skill set he has is quite deadly: Double lynch, increased vote count, and an insta-lynch at the beginning of the game. The mayor, therefore, has great powers to shift the direction of the game. He does have to listen to all of the citizens, but he ultimately decides if he will call forth the double lynch, who he will use his extra votes for, and who he will kill after the election. It's true, these are tough decisions to make, but the mayor has to lead everyone to be successful.
On a side note: Chuiu, I am wondering what time zone you live in. Maybe your "late" is my "early" and vice versa? (Mine is Us eastern)
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On March 19 2008 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Time to prove my innocence. + Show Spoiler +
This, and fuck yeah sea king, are two of the worst things that ever spawned out of 4chan.
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Amazing, this game is only starting and there is already 57 pages of posts! That's around 1/3 of the pages of last game! Maybe we will set a TL record?
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Wow, Ace's plan is so stupid and cheap. I liked the bodyguard plan but this is a sign of desperation. Yeah, guys let's make this game even more cheap! Lets have everyone pm their roles so we know who's lying! Seriously, if you want to keep this game fun, avoid cheap exploits like that.
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On March 21 2008 06:22 CDRdude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 06:18 French_Toast wrote: Wow, Ace's plan is so stupid and cheap. I liked the bodyguard plan but this is a sign of desperation. Yeah, guys let's make this game even more cheap! Lets have everyone pm their roles so we know who's lying! Seriously, if you want to keep this game fun, avoid cheap exploits like that. Perhaps you didn't see what happened in the last game; it was a worse rape than the OSL finals. The town needs to get it's act together this time, and start making a comeback. Also, the plan isn't that bad. It gives a known townie information, which always helps, and he can use that to reduce the odds of hitting town instead of mafia.
I saw perfectly what happened. However this time people are no longer n00bs and are really into it. If you read some of the posts, some people claimed to have spreadsheets of people's names, sigs, possible themes, who they accuse, and who they voted for. The town doesn't need a cheap-ass strategy like this one. This game is supposed to be about fun, not just winning. Same thing with chess, there is a strategy called fools-mate that allows you to win in like three turns. However, most people would rather play an actual game then to fool their opponent into losing so quickly. The reason? It's a game, it's supposed to be fun and challenging.
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On March 21 2008 06:48 CDRdude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 06:33 French_Toast wrote: I saw perfectly what happened. However this time people are no longer n00bs and are really into it. First off, it's better not to overestimate ourselves. We'll have some noobs, and some smarter people, there's no stopping that. Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 06:33 French_Toast wrote: If you read some of the posts, some people claimed to have spreadsheets of people's names, sigs, possible themes, who they accuse, and who they voted for. For your information I have read the thread, and I known this. The list of people's names and sigs has been posted in the thread a long time ago. I also take offense at the implication that I haven't read the posts.
On March 21 2008 06:33 French_Toast wrote: The town doesn't need a cheap-ass strategy like this one. How do you know we won't need it? I'm not psychic, and I don't think you are either. The mafia can still kill a lot of people every night.
On March 21 2008 06:33 French_Toast wrote: This game is supposed to be about fun, not just winning. Same thing with chess, there is a strategy called fools-mate that allows you to win in like three turns. However, most people would rather play an actual game then to fool their opponent into losing so quickly. The reason? It's a game, it's supposed to be fun and challenging. A fools-mate basically never happens. It's an example of the fastest possible checkmate. Fools-mate is theorycrafting that requires both sides to try achieve it. This game is already challenging. It's not our job to balance, it's Chuiu and Dapperdan's. Besides--winning is fun.[/QUOTE]
Alright I'll do the same thing as you only I'll number
1. There are of course lots of noobs, but I have noticed that the players this time around know what's coming and have good plans set up. The bodyguard plan, and even the PM plan are all strategies none the less. Also there are more people spending their time interpreting the clues, I even saw blog posts for clues, lists, and even important posts. Both sides are much more prepared, there are noobs, but when you can observe already good players posting all around you, learning is not that difficult. We do not need plans that make the game less fun, this is one of them.
2. I wasn't only talking about the list, that's common knowledge. I saw a mini conversation between two posters where one said he had a giant spreadsheet, and the other said they also are keeping track of everything. And as for offending you, I'm sowwy I huwt yo fewwings.
3. WOW! How did you guess I'm a psychic?!! You must certainly be a psychic too! Tbh I already saw the future and everything, it's a gay strategy! KThnxBye!~~
4. I don't think you got my point with the chess example. I wasn't trying to argue about fools mate, I was trying to show you, through metaphor, that by using this we might end the game quickly, but it won't be as exciting and fun. Winning itself is only fun the first or second time. After a while you want challenge, and to play better games. Would you really chose winning easily all the time over playing great games and winning only some of the time?
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On March 21 2008 07:15 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 06:18 French_Toast wrote: Wow, Ace's plan is so stupid and cheap. I liked the bodyguard plan but this is a sign of desperation. Yeah, guys let's make this game even more cheap! Lets have everyone pm their roles so we know who's lying! Seriously, if you want to keep this game fun, avoid cheap exploits like that. You must suck at starcraft and every other competitive game out there. The best players always find cheap exploits to gain a slight advantage over their opponents. Mafia is no exception, especially since this is a competitive forum for one of the most competitive games ever. If you wanted to lose, you shouldn't have joined in this game. Unless, that is, you are mafia. Not neccessarily accusing you, you might just be really, really stupid. Same goes for HeroeS)Pink (should we be paying attention to the mr. pink clue or is that too obvious? Damn you for picking a clue like that chuiu).
Okay, first of all thanks for insulting me directly, now I have an excuse to put you down. Secondly, are you the type of n00b that when he gets a great game and plays it, he types in cheat codes automatically? Do you really like to replace skill with exploits? If so then games in general are not for you, especially StarCraft. Why do you think developers balance games out? StarCraft went through so many patches for that single purpose, that is why it's so competitive. And no, I don't want to lose, but I don't want to play unfair either! And if you were talking about cheesing for StarCraft, those aren't really exploits, they are valid strategies that can be countered.
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On March 21 2008 07:19 Kau wrote: So HeroesPink and FrenchToast, how do you propose we play the game?
Thanks for asking. I like the bodyguard plan, that seems a great way to go. Also, I think we should spend a lot of our time interpreting clues, I mean if people did that more last game, the townies would have won. Especially in the end, they were so obvious.
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On March 21 2008 07:31 Falcynn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 07:26 French_Toast wrote:On March 21 2008 07:15 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On March 21 2008 06:18 French_Toast wrote: Wow, Ace's plan is so stupid and cheap. I liked the bodyguard plan but this is a sign of desperation. Yeah, guys let's make this game even more cheap! Lets have everyone pm their roles so we know who's lying! Seriously, if you want to keep this game fun, avoid cheap exploits like that. You must suck at starcraft and every other competitive game out there. The best players always find cheap exploits to gain a slight advantage over their opponents. Mafia is no exception, especially since this is a competitive forum for one of the most competitive games ever. If you wanted to lose, you shouldn't have joined in this game. Unless, that is, you are mafia. Not neccessarily accusing you, you might just be really, really stupid. Same goes for HeroeS)Pink (should we be paying attention to the mr. pink clue or is that too obvious? Damn you for picking a clue like that chuiu). Okay, first of all thanks for insulting me directly, now I have an excuse to put you down. Secondly, are you the type of n00b that when he gets a great game and plays it, he types in cheat codes automatically? Do you really like to replace skill with exploits? If so then games in general are not for you, especially StarCraft. Why do you think developers balance games out? StarCraft went through so many patches for that single purpose, that is why it's so competitive. And no, I don't want to lose, but I don't want to play unfair either! And if you were talking about cheesing for StarCraft, those aren't really exploits, they are valid strategies that can be countered. That's a horrible example. We're playing this game perfectly within the boundaries of the rules, for your analogy to make any sense we would've had to do something drastic like hacking into everyone's accounts and checking their PM's. If you want to talk about SC examples. We're 4pooling you mafia guys, and you're complaining about how we're ruining the game because of a "cheap" strategy that you can't get around (it's not that hard). Edit: and obviously we're going to keep looking out for clues, but since there are like 130 guys, there are obviously going to be times where clues point to more than one guy. So we need other tactics to narrow down the choices. Of course you are playing by the rules, you just chose to go the wrong way to go about it. You are not hacking, or cheating, a better way to describe it would be glitching. Look, let's say everyone responds truthfully except for the Mafia. Unless the Mafia are stupid they will all claim to be townies. Now, what you have is, all special roles are safe and medics can be assigned via PM. Also you have 31 innocents and you know everyone's special role. So, then you could also coordinate attacks with vigilantes, investigations with detectives, and other stuff. HOW CHEAP IS THAT? You are pretty much assembling an organized army and reducing possible suspects by 31! This game is set for you! Unless the mafia are super awesome you are pretty much 4 pooling them.
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On March 21 2008 07:36 ahrara_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 07:26 French_Toast wrote: Okay, first of all thanks for insulting me directly, now I have an excuse to put you down. Secondly, are you the type of n00b that when he gets a great game and plays it, he types in cheat codes automatically? Funny how you get all sensitive when someone insults you, but it's ok for you to be a bitch to everyone else. I don't really care about what French_Toast has to say. I just hope the townies realize that just a few people being persuaded to not send in their PMs by this possible mafia ploy are going to seriously weaken Ace's plan. It's possible the mafia realize this, and have sent a saboteur in to get enough people upset that the plan doesn't work. Send in your PMs, for everyone's sake.
I don't really see how my posts are bitchy, but if you want me to be more polite, then sure.
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On March 21 2008 07:33 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 06:18 Kau wrote:On March 21 2008 05:10 qrs wrote: It's not that dumb. Assuming that all blues (+ fake-blues) send in their roles as they are supposed to, it makes absolutely no difference whether the rest of us officially declare townie or not. No one's going to declare Mafia, and anyone who was going to declare roleplayer should have done that.
But on second thought, I concede that if we are afraid that some blues will stay low for whatever reason (although they shouldn't) and we are afraid of lynching them by mistake then the "I am townie" statement does do something: it tells the mayor "I am not an inactive blue". It does make a difference if townies have to pm because it forces the mafia to pm too, because ideally, every townie and every blue would have pm'ed Ace, so the only ones who have not pm'ed would be mafia. If we had it so that no townie had to pm, then mafia can just do nothing. And this way, Mafia have to PM that they are townies. And that's exactly the same as doing nothing in the original scenario. They don't have to reveal anything about themselves, they don't have to contradict themselves, all they have to do is say something that is implicit from the very fact that they are playing the game. This is not an "exploit". The one slight reason I can see for having green townies PM is to eliminate the possibility that they are inactive blues. If everyone is playing well, this shouldn't be necessary (because all blues should respond) but, OK, it's possible that not all blues are paying attention, so it doesn't hurt to PM Ace--more information is not bad. In any case, I've already said in the thread that I'm a vanilla townie. (If I'm actually mafia, the Mafia knows it and if I'm actually a roleplayer, Ace knows it.) PS-French Toast has just jumped to the top of my suspicion list. Well if you are accusing me of being mafia then I'm afraid I have no defense off the top of my head. The only thing I could really say is that you'll be wasting a lynch.
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On March 21 2008 07:46 Falcynn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 07:43 French_Toast wrote:On March 21 2008 07:31 Falcynn wrote:On March 21 2008 07:26 French_Toast wrote:On March 21 2008 07:15 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On March 21 2008 06:18 French_Toast wrote: Wow, Ace's plan is so stupid and cheap. I liked the bodyguard plan but this is a sign of desperation. Yeah, guys let's make this game even more cheap! Lets have everyone pm their roles so we know who's lying! Seriously, if you want to keep this game fun, avoid cheap exploits like that. You must suck at starcraft and every other competitive game out there. The best players always find cheap exploits to gain a slight advantage over their opponents. Mafia is no exception, especially since this is a competitive forum for one of the most competitive games ever. If you wanted to lose, you shouldn't have joined in this game. Unless, that is, you are mafia. Not neccessarily accusing you, you might just be really, really stupid. Same goes for HeroeS)Pink (should we be paying attention to the mr. pink clue or is that too obvious? Damn you for picking a clue like that chuiu). Okay, first of all thanks for insulting me directly, now I have an excuse to put you down. Secondly, are you the type of n00b that when he gets a great game and plays it, he types in cheat codes automatically? Do you really like to replace skill with exploits? If so then games in general are not for you, especially StarCraft. Why do you think developers balance games out? StarCraft went through so many patches for that single purpose, that is why it's so competitive. And no, I don't want to lose, but I don't want to play unfair either! And if you were talking about cheesing for StarCraft, those aren't really exploits, they are valid strategies that can be countered. That's a horrible example. We're playing this game perfectly within the boundaries of the rules, for your analogy to make any sense we would've had to do something drastic like hacking into everyone's accounts and checking their PM's. If you want to talk about SC examples. We're 4pooling you mafia guys, and you're complaining about how we're ruining the game because of a "cheap" strategy that you can't get around (it's not that hard). Edit: and obviously we're going to keep looking out for clues, but since there are like 130 guys, there are obviously going to be times where clues point to more than one guy. So we need other tactics to narrow down the choices. Of course you are playing by the rules, you just chose to go the wrong way to go about it. You are not hacking, or cheating, a better way to describe it would be glitching. Look, let's say everyone responds truthfully except for the Mafia. Unless the Mafia are stupid they will all claim to be townies. Now, what you have is, all special roles are safe and medics can be assigned via PM. Also you have 31 innocents and you know everyone's special role. So, then you could also coordinate attacks with vigilantes, investigations with detectives, and other stuff. HOW CHEAP IS THAT? You are pretty much assembling an organized army and reducing possible suspects by 31! This game is set for you! Unless the mafia are super awesome you are pretty much 4 pooling them. I'm sure you guys will come up with something to counter this I'd rather not share how the mafia can counter this since I don't want to give them ideas, but it is possible. Town will gain a slight advantage, but mafia can still win easily. I do not see how this is only a slight advantage. What I wrote would be an ideal case scenario because we will have inactive people not send their PM and the mafia can use this as an excuse but, if someone suddenly becomes active and does not reply then I presume they become suspicious. And if you do not wish to post your ideas, that is fine, I'll have other people to debate with.
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On March 21 2008 07:54 Naib wrote:Edit: lol, massive amount of posts came in since I posted this. So " @ the above" changed to @ French_Toast's previous post @ French_Toast: 4 pool is easily countered even when not scouted properly at today's standards. Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 05:36 Lysithea wrote: Why are people waiting for a dt to confirm? Wasn't the whole point that if no dt/bg speak up against Ace's townmanship he's considered legit?
Only thing we're waiting for is for the dts to have ample time to be sure they've done their thing. How long we wait is up to the masses I guess. Because some people clearly didn't read that post where it was explained, or misunderstood it. So maybe there's need for more reiteration. Next random topic popping up: I think as Ace put it, we waited enough for a detective to speak up and prove his innocence. It might sound as a gamble if we believe they have done so, and didn't speak up according to plan so Ace is innocent - since there's always a chance they missed posts for 2 days straight, didn't agree with the plain due to plain selfishness or didn't know that they can use their role anytime. But as Ace said that, we're as good as dead in this case. Another note worth mentioning about this topic, since the 2 days (I assume Chuiu meant game-days, not "real" days, he'll correct me if I'm wrong I guess) that he'll redistribute the blue roles off of inactive people. But that's not done yet! So if we PM our roles now to Ace, as a townie, out of our best interest - it might still cause problems! What if I was a mere townie, just PMed Ace, then a few hours later I would have to be like "oh, hehe X was inactive, I got his Jack role, now count me in as Jack." He could believe I'm not lying then it would be fine, or it could be just a mafia ploy for even more confusion. Of course Ace's plan has holes, but why would he post every possible hole? It's enough to post holes that you know the solution for, so you can lure the mafia into your trap Let their heads ache and may all of them act out of desperation by the sound of the new plan - even if it's not an insta-win of course. But we really do need a strategy (sad for those that don't get it and act selfish, like some of the above - just lynch them along with shit-strirrers I say, problem solved! This is no democracy! )
I know this is doing wonders for my post count Mafia related: I am not trying to act selfish, if I seem that way, I'm just trying to point out that this strategy is cheap and we should stick to others like: interpreting the clues, and bodyguard plan.
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On March 21 2008 08:01 Falcynn wrote: Sorry, meant to say "At worst, town will gain a slight advantage..."
However despite that, this plan isn't 100% fool proof like you seem to be trying to make it out to be.
Not 100%? Debate with me. (Unless you don't want to.)
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On March 21 2008 07:54 LucasWoJ wrote: Jeez, it sounds like you're against the town winning. If it's by the rules, why complain about what you feel is inevitable victory? Sure sounds like your against the interest of the town. It sounds like you're a mafioso who's having trouble deciding on what to do.
I think I already addressed this, whatever I'll say it again. In the previous posts I made, one of my arguments was that it would make the game less fun. Mafia is supposed to be about digging up clues and dirt on people, convincing your theory is right to other people, and having fun in general. These kind of games can become epic and fun to read, but if you use a cheap win you will lose all of that.
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