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Am I glad I don't have to make clues here. I've already set up my own mafiagame on a dutch forum with about 20 participants every try, and I can hardly make texts longer then 5 sentences. Good luck =_=
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double lynch Dr. Dragoon and qrs!
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Chuiu, another question for the Jack; If he chooses veteran and gets hit, does the hit stay, thus rendering his veteran-status useless, or is the veteran 'cleaned' after the Jack reverts?
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I'd just like to say something about the bodyguard plan with one bodyguard stepping up front to accept everyone's roles; This could easily be done by the mafia too if the mayor is a mafia member. Mafia could fake being a bodyguard and thus it's not really any better then just sending the roles to the mayor. The only reason I could see this being better then just sending the roles to the mayor is that other bodyguards can verify this; but that would mean losing more bodyguards.
As for my vote, it'll go to Ace for the moment. I'm not too happy with Empyrian going towards the pardoner position as of yet considering how he played last game, though. Gonna take a closer look at the clues now.
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On March 19 2008 05:09 Lenwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 05:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd just like to say something about the bodyguard plan with one bodyguard stepping up front to accept everyone's roles; This could easily be done by the mafia too if the mayor is a mafia member. Mafia could fake being a bodyguard and thus it's not really any better then just sending the roles to the mayor.
If there are 7 bodyguards and they all get the message but an 8th person steps forward and say's the mayor is not mafia, they will also know something is wrong.
This is the situation I'm talking about. This will require an additional bodyguard to step in, which means another casualty.
Edit: Although this does mean trading one mafia for one bodyguard on second thought. It could still be used as misinformation if used properly by the mafia though.
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On March 19 2008 05:27 GeneralStan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 05:09 Lenwe wrote:On March 19 2008 05:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd just like to say something about the bodyguard plan with one bodyguard stepping up front to accept everyone's roles; This could easily be done by the mafia too if the mayor is a mafia member. Mafia could fake being a bodyguard and thus it's not really any better then just sending the roles to the mayor.
But won't the real bodyguards notice this? If there are 7 bodyguards and they all get the message and one of them steps forward, no problem. If there are 7 bodyguards and one doesn't get the message he will know something fishy is going on. If there are 7 bodyguards and they all get the message but an 8th person steps forward and say's the mayor is not mafia, they will also know something is wrong. Right, or am I missing something? That is the idea. I see no flaw.
The thought was more of one bodyguard saying this, then a mafia steps in and says that, we'll need a second bodyguard to verify the first bodyguard, causing two bodyguard deaths instead of one.
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On March 19 2008 07:45 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Such Epil Fail signifies nothing less than Mafia!
Epil Fail
Epil
Epil
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Shallow, you thought my PM was serious? ;o
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On March 19 2008 08:45 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 08:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I refuse to respond to PMs such as the one Artanis sent me, as I just KNOW he's going to doctor my response and post it. lies you already responded to mine
Yeah, but you two are discussing mafia plans and I'm not allowed in :<
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On March 19 2008 08:55 Hot_Bid wrote:Unfortunately these two people playing are the same guy, the IP check confirms. Pretty BM if you ask me to register two accounts to play when it's so important for the game that you don't know who the other side are. You guys should vote on whether we should ban him  Edit: Sucks that some people have to cheat even in friendly forum games.
Are you sure these are not relatives/playing on diffrent comps but utilising the same network or anything? If not, I'm all for the banhammer.
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On March 19 2008 09:09 Kau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 09:02 Ace wrote:On March 19 2008 08:57 Kau wrote:
Ace:
About your Bodyguard plan, what stops a mafia mayor from pming each actual bodyguard with a list that is something like:
mafia 1
mafia 2
mafia 3
bodyguard #
Each actual bodyguard would get a pm back from each of the fake mafia-bodyguards and they wouldn't know.
Then once the mayor gets checked by a detective, couldn't there be fake mafia-detectives that state that the mayor is innocent? They can't because all the other Bodyguards that didn't get a PM would know something is wrong. In the event that they do that, it just helps the town because we can just apply all clues and DT/Jack power to that list of suspects and catch the Mafia asap. No fake detective is going to spring forward and state the Mayor is innocent because they run the risk at having a real detective also step forward and once again we are back to place where we have confirmed a situation with at least 1 suspect as Mafia (because someone is lying) and a sure fire Mafia lynching. What I'm saying is that the pm is sent to every real bodyguard. Say there are 3 bodyguards. 3 pms would be sent out: Mafia 1 Mafia 2 Bodyguard 1 Mafia 1 Mafia 2 Bodyguard 2 Mafia 1 Mafia 2 Bodyguard 3 Each bodyguard would then get pms back from Mafia 1 and 2 and thus are "confirmed". And about fake detectives springing forward and stating the mayor is innocent, the townies have no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who isn't. We can't know when a real detective steps forward because he could very well be fake.
The problem with this mafia plan is that once one real bodyguard gets whacked (say, by a vigilante), all the other bodyguards would realize something is up.
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On March 19 2008 09:32 Kau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 09:12 Ace wrote:On March 19 2008 09:04 qrs wrote:
Edit: @ Ace: He's saying that every bodyguard would get a PM. Their PM would list Mafia members as bodyguards. Each bodyguard's PM would list (the same) fake bodyguards as their colleagues. None of the bodyguards would know the difference. They'd still be caught. Ok let's look at like this: Scenario 1: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with a Mafia Mayor who also sends out the PM. We will know how many BGs are there when the elections are over. The Mafia can't leave 2 of the real Bodyguards off the list because the 2 that didn't get a PM would speak up. They can't just add an extra 2 to the PM because any BG getting a PM from the Mayor with 9 names obviously means the Mayor is clearly not thinking straight and is fishy. Scenario 2: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with an Innocent Mayor who also sends out the PM. The PMs from the Mayor don't match those 2 "fake" PMs. Even better, the names of those 2 fakers never even appear in the Mayor's original PM and they just outted themselves as Mafia for a pathetic chance at confusion. How can the Mafia possibly get away with faking any of it without drawing attention to their members? Ace, I don't see how scenario 1 would happen at all. Unless I don't understand how the game works (which is a definite possibility), this is how I see it using your numbers. What everyone knows: There are 7 bodyguards. Only the mayor knows which 7 people are bodyguards. Now, we assume that the mayor is also mafia, so he can coordinate with other mafia members. Since he knows who each bodyguard is, he will send each of the 7 bodyguards a pm. Each pm will have 7 people in it: 6 mafia and 1 bodyguard. Each bodyguard gets pm'ed back by the mafia members (6 different pm's for each bodyguard) and so they believe there are 7 bodyguards. No bodyguards are left out. Each list sent contains 7 people. Each bodyguard recieves 6 confirmation pm's.
As I had said earlier, once one bodyguard dies, the other bodyguards would find out that the one that died isn't in their list and would obviously protest. Mayor gets lynched and people get the list of a large portion of the mafia, plus the mayor.
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On March 19 2008 09:51 Kau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 09:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On March 19 2008 09:32 Kau wrote:On March 19 2008 09:12 Ace wrote:On March 19 2008 09:04 qrs wrote:
Edit: @ Ace: He's saying that every bodyguard would get a PM. Their PM would list Mafia members as bodyguards. Each bodyguard's PM would list (the same) fake bodyguards as their colleagues. None of the bodyguards would know the difference. They'd still be caught. Ok let's look at like this: Scenario 1: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with a Mafia Mayor who also sends out the PM. We will know how many BGs are there when the elections are over. The Mafia can't leave 2 of the real Bodyguards off the list because the 2 that didn't get a PM would speak up. They can't just add an extra 2 to the PM because any BG getting a PM from the Mayor with 9 names obviously means the Mayor is clearly not thinking straight and is fishy. Scenario 2: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with an Innocent Mayor who also sends out the PM. The PMs from the Mayor don't match those 2 "fake" PMs. Even better, the names of those 2 fakers never even appear in the Mayor's original PM and they just outted themselves as Mafia for a pathetic chance at confusion. How can the Mafia possibly get away with faking any of it without drawing attention to their members? Ace, I don't see how scenario 1 would happen at all. Unless I don't understand how the game works (which is a definite possibility), this is how I see it using your numbers. What everyone knows: There are 7 bodyguards. Only the mayor knows which 7 people are bodyguards. Now, we assume that the mayor is also mafia, so he can coordinate with other mafia members. Since he knows who each bodyguard is, he will send each of the 7 bodyguards a pm. Each pm will have 7 people in it: 6 mafia and 1 bodyguard. Each bodyguard gets pm'ed back by the mafia members (6 different pm's for each bodyguard) and so they believe there are 7 bodyguards. No bodyguards are left out. Each list sent contains 7 people. Each bodyguard recieves 6 confirmation pm's. As I had said earlier, once one bodyguard dies, the other bodyguards would find out that the one that died isn't in their list and would obviously protest. Mayor gets lynched and people get the list of a large portion of the mafia, plus the mayor. So in the case a bodyguard speaks out, we lynch the mayor? Then what happens when the mayor was innocent and he sent all the pm's as he should. Some mafia could speak out and we'd lynch our mayor?
Not one bodyguard, but several bodyguards and the detectives would speak out, most likely.
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On March 19 2008 09:59 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 09:32 Kau wrote:On March 19 2008 09:12 Ace wrote:On March 19 2008 09:04 qrs wrote:
Edit: @ Ace: He's saying that every bodyguard would get a PM. Their PM would list Mafia members as bodyguards. Each bodyguard's PM would list (the same) fake bodyguards as their colleagues. None of the bodyguards would know the difference. They'd still be caught. Ok let's look at like this: Scenario 1: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with a Mafia Mayor who also sends out the PM. We will know how many BGs are there when the elections are over. The Mafia can't leave 2 of the real Bodyguards off the list because the 2 that didn't get a PM would speak up. They can't just add an extra 2 to the PM because any BG getting a PM from the Mayor with 9 names obviously means the Mayor is clearly not thinking straight and is fishy. Scenario 2: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with an Innocent Mayor who also sends out the PM. The PMs from the Mayor don't match those 2 "fake" PMs. Even better, the names of those 2 fakers never even appear in the Mayor's original PM and they just outted themselves as Mafia for a pathetic chance at confusion. How can the Mafia possibly get away with faking any of it without drawing attention to their members? Ace, I don't see how scenario 1 would happen at all. Unless I don't understand how the game works (which is a definite possibility), this is how I see it using your numbers. What everyone knows: There are 7 bodyguards. Only the mayor knows which 7 people are bodyguards. Now, we assume that the mayor is also mafia, so he can coordinate with other mafia members. Since he knows who each bodyguard is, he will send each of the 7 bodyguards a pm. Each pm will have 7 people in it: 6 mafia and 1 bodyguard. Each bodyguard gets pm'ed back by the mafia members (6 different pm's for each bodyguard) and so they believe there are 7 bodyguards. No bodyguards are left out. Each list sent contains 7 people. Each bodyguard recieves 6 confirmation pm's. Or even this (Call the bodyguards A-G and the mafia 1-4): A's PMA,B,C,D,1,2,3 B's PMA,B,C,D,1,2,3 C's PMA,B,C,D,1,2,3 D's PMA,B,C,D,1,2,3 E's PME,F,G,1,2,3,4 F's PME,F,G,1,2,3,4 G's PME,F,G,1,2,3,4 Only 4 mafia used in that scenario. The bodyguards will never know.
Until E dies and gets revealed as bodyguard, and A-D go wtf.
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On March 19 2008 10:04 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 10:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On March 19 2008 09:59 qrs wrote:On March 19 2008 09:32 Kau wrote:On March 19 2008 09:12 Ace wrote:On March 19 2008 09:04 qrs wrote:
Edit: @ Ace: He's saying that every bodyguard would get a PM. Their PM would list Mafia members as bodyguards. Each bodyguard's PM would list (the same) fake bodyguards as their colleagues. None of the bodyguards would know the difference. They'd still be caught. Ok let's look at like this: Scenario 1: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with a Mafia Mayor who also sends out the PM. We will know how many BGs are there when the elections are over. The Mafia can't leave 2 of the real Bodyguards off the list because the 2 that didn't get a PM would speak up. They can't just add an extra 2 to the PM because any BG getting a PM from the Mayor with 9 names obviously means the Mayor is clearly not thinking straight and is fishy. Scenario 2: There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with an Innocent Mayor who also sends out the PM. The PMs from the Mayor don't match those 2 "fake" PMs. Even better, the names of those 2 fakers never even appear in the Mayor's original PM and they just outted themselves as Mafia for a pathetic chance at confusion. How can the Mafia possibly get away with faking any of it without drawing attention to their members? Ace, I don't see how scenario 1 would happen at all. Unless I don't understand how the game works (which is a definite possibility), this is how I see it using your numbers. What everyone knows: There are 7 bodyguards. Only the mayor knows which 7 people are bodyguards. Now, we assume that the mayor is also mafia, so he can coordinate with other mafia members. Since he knows who each bodyguard is, he will send each of the 7 bodyguards a pm. Each pm will have 7 people in it: 6 mafia and 1 bodyguard. Each bodyguard gets pm'ed back by the mafia members (6 different pm's for each bodyguard) and so they believe there are 7 bodyguards. No bodyguards are left out. Each list sent contains 7 people. Each bodyguard recieves 6 confirmation pm's. Or even this (Call the bodyguards A-G and the mafia 1-4): A's PMA,B,C,D,1,2,3 B's PMA,B,C,D,1,2,3 C's PMA,B,C,D,1,2,3 D's PMA,B,C,D,1,2,3 E's PME,F,G,1,2,3,4 F's PME,F,G,1,2,3,4 G's PME,F,G,1,2,3,4 Only 4 mafia used in that scenario. The bodyguards will never know. Until E dies and gets revealed as bodyguard, and A-D go wtf. Yes, if E dies by lynching, but that's a big if.
Or gets hit by a vigilante, which isn't a big if.
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You guys really had to bury us under a mass of posts didn't you 
I might switch my vote from Ace to randombum if Ace is safe, but it'd be better if people that voted for empyrian switched.
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On March 19 2008 22:21 Klive5ive wrote:
We need to call Empyrean out.
I'll start by saying I think it is very likely he is a detective. Everyone should be assumed innocent until CLUES or obvious circumstances cast serious doubt over them.
The mistake made last time was to assume the people who posted frequently were Mafia, purely because they said things that were silly/didn't make sense.
Just because people are stupid or play the game badly doesn't mean they are Mafia.
In light of this the best way to go about it in my opinion is to NOT ALLOW HIM TO USE HIS PARDONING POWERS.
By that I mean we simply state that he is not allowed to pardon anyone. IF he does, then he will be assumed Mafia and we simply lynch him next round.
If enough people agree that this is a good idea we can get the benefits of a possible pardoner-detective without the disadvantages of a mafia-pardoner saving mafia.
The problem with this is that our pardoner powers are now negated, and that the role-blocking mafia will be laughing as Empyrian can't do anything.
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On March 19 2008 22:28 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 22:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On March 19 2008 22:21 Klive5ive wrote:
We need to call Empyrean out.
I'll start by saying I think it is very likely he is a detective. Everyone should be assumed innocent until CLUES or obvious circumstances cast serious doubt over them.
The mistake made last time was to assume the people who posted frequently were Mafia, purely because they said things that were silly/didn't make sense.
Just because people are stupid or play the game badly doesn't mean they are Mafia.
In light of this the best way to go about it in my opinion is to NOT ALLOW HIM TO USE HIS PARDONING POWERS.
By that I mean we simply state that he is not allowed to pardon anyone. IF he does, then he will be assumed Mafia and we simply lynch him next round.
If enough people agree that this is a good idea we can get the benefits of a possible pardoner-detective without the disadvantages of a mafia-pardoner saving mafia.
The problem with this is that our pardoner powers are now negated, and that the role-blocking mafia will be laughing as Empyrian can't do anything. The pardoner is not a very useful role for the townies. We can't stop the role-blockers from stopping his detective powers anyway, so that point is irrelevant. That is exactly why declaring himself as a detective was such a bad idea. Also presumably a pardoner-detective would have both power blocked by role-blockers. So if he isn't mafia he probably won't be able to pardon anyway.
Roleblock powers don't stop pardoning, afaik. Only abilities that are PMed to Chuiu can be stopped. And if Empyrian doesn't become pardoner, he'll still likely be protected by a lot of medics. This means one of these two things:
A) The mafia wastes a lot of killing power to take out one detective.
B) The mafia doesn't bother trying to take out empyrian and simply roleblocks him every turn until they think they can take him out.
Now, since the roleblocker doesn't have a target yet, he might as well roleblock empyrian and save the mafia's killing power so they can hit other targets. This is obviously assuming Empyrian is a real detective. If he isn't, we've protected a mafia member where a helpful townie could've been that might now get killed.
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I'd like some clarification from Chuiu's side as whether to the double lynches and pardons can be roleblocked.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i28.tinypic.com/2my0r54.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i30.tinypic.com/28hlg07.jpg)
