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Jeejee, If the game was balanced with everybody playing, then how does only 1/2 the town playing + us getting the list of blues + it still being close have the game balanced?
Yes, you guys had a few good players and that helped the town out alot. Imagine if you had another 25 plexa's,aces,mtf's etc.
Whose fault that we got the list of blues (although we had killed every single dt and jack do to another town mistake, well several mistakes.)
The fact that the town didn't lose after handing us all the blues shows how difficult for mafia to kill the town.
Think how the game would still be if we didn't get that list. You guys would still be down to 4 mafia, but have at least 10-20 more active people including all the medics, ace, and plexa.
And no, we do not know everything before hand we know who is mafia and who is not. Our goal is to root out all your blues. (Which we did an amazing job at even before the list)
Your job is to find all the red while you know all the blues. Which you guys did an amazing job at too with the help of some very dedicated clue finders. Hell, you guys found all the mafia with all the dts and jacks dead at day 5. Imagine if we were worse players and let the 4 dts go list checking until we found the list. (day 12 or something)
Granted inactivity hurt the town more than mafia, thats not what this is even about. Its about chuiu declaring that two people who were replaced were green. I don't care about replacing them, I agree that they hurt the town, and that if not replaced we have won.
And mynock, PM me where you think we made mistakes. (although I can name a few mistakes, although not as game changing as the town's)
Chuiu, you can say that now, but if I hadn't brought it up you would have continued to replace people and list them as green. If you are under the impression all mafia are active (that is you wouldn't replace them) Then everybody from now on who is replaced is green and replacing anyone else will only be giving the town a list of known innocents. Which is what I was complaining about in the first place. Having said that you believe all the mafia to be active you cannot not replace any new people without helping the town alot more than your intending too. (I think, unless its your intention to hand them lists of innocents)
Yes, you named the new people as bold but you listed the people who were replaced as green, that is innocent townies. If the new bolded names took their roles they will then be known as townies. Even if what you meant are the replaced people are now dead townies, but the bolded names may not be townies, and that they could actually be red replacing the green people it would still have been easier if you listed those being replaced as bold too.You could have listed both names in bold and avoided this whole mess altogether.
I'm done after this if you really want to argue with me over this we can bring it to pms, I won't post in this topic again until the game is over.
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On July 13 2008 06:27 randombum wrote:
Chuiu, you can say that now, but if I hadn't brought it up you would have continued to replace people and list them as green. If you are under the impression all mafia are active (that is you wouldn't replace them) Then everybody from now on who is replaced is green and replacing anyone else will only be giving the town a list of known innocents. Which is what I was complaining about in the first place. Having said that you believe all the mafia to be active you cannot not replace any new people without helping the town alot more than your intending too. (I think, unless its your intention to hand them lists of innocents)
Damn strait I would have listed all the players I'm replacing as green, that's how I intended on doing it and how I intend on continuing. And instead of continuing to replace them how about I just end the game and declare town victory? Will that shut you up? Will that stop the mafia from being bitchy whiny little kids?(poor sports, in another language) I've already put you down on the ban list for next game so I don't think that will, in fact I'm sure you'll have another wall of text showing your disapproval for my actions within the next hour.
As for the townies continuing to cheat (don't even attempt to play dumb with me this late in the game) you're just lucky I don't have any hard evidence against you yet to justify banning you next game.
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Wait what? Townies cheating? How so?
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I'm betting he's referring to Town cheating as in the dead continuing to do alot of the work then pming the people alive what to do.
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game should just end after day 20. this has been running for FOUR months, which is amazing considering how much work was put into it. but the inactives are kinda dragging the game down. great run by townies, but lets just give it to the mafia and wrap this sucker up.
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Pretty much everyone on our side agrees that this was a pretty overt instance of cheating.
The barred people were green as noted in your post. You can say now "oh i was going to green everyone" but that's a bit after the fact, isn't it? Random saw you give out the information and called you on it. They weren't black with a cross strike (ie no information give). This wasn't 'role unknown, randombum's a jerk'. This was a replacement done when townies had been asking to get new blood switched in, when you had said you had wanted to 'end the game'.
I waited for this to happen because this is exactly how I figured it would go down. There have been so many 'small mistakes', be it pming information to dead people, letting 3 pages of dead townie discussion, or this. This is just the most recent and obvious, from the person who should have been the most impartial.
Even showtime, probably the most annoying troll the town had agreed on this point:
Any way you slice it; it's bad. Any changes now would compromise the game..
And the game is now compromised. Well done. I'm glad the town had to take such a massive lead, such a gigantic start, and be reduced to needing freebies from the game's organizer to try and coast into a win.
You put them green. Green means townie. Period. This isn't even up for discussion. You're saying that your previous conventions are all out the window and you were going to introduce new ones on the fly, then get angry and ban random from the next game when he points out that you're flat out cheating.
And as a sidenote: Mafia has NEVER had all twenty members active. If we did, we'd have had random in the mayorship, and we'd have had a complete list of bodyguards to slaughter on day 1.
As for the town cheating, I have a massive amount of information showing who's been cheating, as well as information from townies (who i'm not going to name) who have been privy to the dead players irc channel. Oh wait, why would townies need a dead players irc channel anyways?
...
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Okay, even though this move was rather retarded in my honest opinion, the next dead person who complains gets a two day temp ban
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So, that essentially means that if mafia has anything to say, someone needs to get banned for it because we can't have live players post their grievances from a mafia point of view. Even a few threads back, I believe Nemy was saying that only mafia would oppose an inactive switch, meaning our comments about the game itself are impacting the way the current game is played, unless a dead, known mafia member posts.
I'd much prefer if the system allowed us to submit anonymous, non traced issues, but it doesn't. I'm sorry that this is the best we can do. Something unfair occurred and the mafia side of the game has the right to make their case against it. We aren't going to spam the thread, and we are currently producing the longest and most comprehensive posts in this 'argument', so I can't really see us being seen as trolls. If you want to ban me for being on the 'wrong' side of a debate, so be it, but why weren't people being temp banned when you and the townies spent pages of time complaining post mortem about inactivity and how inactives should be switched? Why weren't you banned when you sent out a mass pm relating to the game despite being dead? If anything was game changing, it was that.
The aforementioned two examples aren't to incriminate you, or to call you out in any way, but just to show that its rather one sided to try to shut out one side when the other has been heard extensively.
I'm done posting unless someone has a solid response, suggestion, or solicits a mafia viewpoint on how the game is running.
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Rofl the hypocriticalness is overwhelming.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Don't say i didn't warn you L
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in any case, the only people who should be able to call this a draw are the people who are still playing. I guess Chuiu could put that up for a vote.
For next lynch I'll still vote for BWdero, suspected of being Cottonmouth as per these posts + the connection between "dressed shabbily" and "dero: Australian slang for derelict person".
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On July 11 2008 17:06 Unforgiven_ve wrote:
^ word...lets restart or Chuiui should find a partner and update everyday He does have a partner--or did: Dapper Dan. Whatever happened to him?
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Germany2896 Posts
On July 13 2008 23:35 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2008 17:06 Unforgiven_ve wrote:
^ word...lets restart or Chuiui should find a partner and update everyday He does have a partner--or did: Dapper Dan. Whatever happened to him?
In think Chuiu stated that Dan did nothing in this game at all.
And I never expected the game to run till now when my exams are. It was simply too large.
Jeejee, If the game was balanced with everybody playing, then how does only 1/2 the town playing + us getting the list of blues + it still being close have the game balanced?
I agree with that. The town made several really bad mistakes and still came out ahead, and only might lose due to inactivity in the end. (Yes the mafia wasn't too efficient with distributing their killingpower, but the town mistakes were FAR bigger than that).
But of cause clues are extremly hard to balance. If you have sb like Plexa who gets much info from them they help town very much, if not the game easily swings the other way. I also have no idea what mafia/town ratio is good for such a game, as I'm only used to much smaller games with different rules (no clues, no major).
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On July 13 2008 23:44 MasterOfChaos wrote:Show nested quote +Jeejee, If the game was balanced with everybody playing, then how does only 1/2 the town playing + us getting the list of blues + it still being close have the game balanced? I agree with that. The town made several really bad mistakes and still came out ahead, and only might lose due to inactivity in the end. (Yes the mafia wasn't too efficient with distributing their killingpower, but the town mistakes were FAR bigger than that). But of cause clues are extremly hard to balance. If you have sb like Plexa who gets much info from them they help town very much, if not the game easily swings the other way. I also have no idea what mafia/town ratio is good for such a game, as I'm only used to much smaller games with different rules (no clues, no major).
mostly because the mafia sucked. i do think you underestimate the mistakes mafia made this game.
edit: personally i do think the initial ratios were in town's favor (although not by much)
this game could've easily went both ways.
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Some observations:
suresh0t - 8
nemY
Wysp
ShaLLoW[baY]
araav
ZBiR
Scorch
Lysithea
KF91
nemY - 4
jtan
BuGzlToOnl (of course you do)
qrs
suresh0t
at this point, mafia had 5 members. They could definitely have swayed the vote to not lynch sureshot, or at least tried to do so.
But they didn't meaning either some mafia is inactive, or they just gave up on sureshot.
Now look at the votes for str:
str - 6
ZBiR
Amber[LighT]
SoleSteeler
Wysp
Pangolin
iNfuNdiBuLuM
str was a townie, so mafia would have jumped on the opportunity to lynch him, aka, been near the top.
likewise;
nemy - 7
jtan
hotzhot
kf91
infinity21
siz.fantasy
ahrara_
iNfuNdiBuLuM
bwdero - 6
nemy
qrs
artanis[xp]
bugz|toon|
romance_us
eti307
if bwdero turns out to be mafia, this can be seen as a bandwagon onto nemy, given the close counts. also, nemy was green, meaning mafia would have jumped at the chance to lynch him.
Unfortunately, most of the other mafia lynches were bandwagons, so the mafia could have jumped in whenever.
but what is strange is that none of the confirmed mafia voted in any of the lynches for the mafia bandwagon since around day 10.
Day 10:
Ninja4ever. - 8
qrs(2)
Unforgiven_ve(2)
KF91(2)
Bockit(2)
araav
clazziquai(2)
BWdero(2)<- hi there
SpiritoftheTuna(2)
If bwdero turns mafia, have a look at kf91. i don't know what clues could point to him, maybe "That was weird... O.o" with "panic" or something, but his voting history:
no mayoral vote
didn't bandwagon mandalor (voted for Hittegods)
abstained day 3 (weakness in argument; didn't vote for ghar or wurm, but then BlindAlbino didn't either)
abstained day 4 (along with 30 other people)
didn't vote day 5
didn't bandwagon crazie-penguin (voted for L)
didn't vote day 7
voted for lostyourskills day 8 (didn't bandwagon ieatkids5, same as BWdero)
bandwagon'd GeneralStan (who wasn't mafia)
voted for damagecontrol and ninja4ever
didn't vote day 11 (bandwagon on clazziquai)
didn't vote day 12
bandwagon'd randombum
didn't vote day 14
voted 0cz3c, but 7th to do so
last to vote sureshot
didn't vote day 17
4th to vote nemy
well anyways, there's not much on him, but there's no one else connected to orange is there?
also, bwdero is getting lynched, so depending on if he is mafia or not the following might happen:
if he is mafia: mafia may either not vote or they may try to sway the vote (it is currently 4 for bwdero and there are 4 mafia) or they might give up on him too
if he isn't mafia: mafia may bandwagon onto him, giving it more than a 4 vote count
i suggest we leave the vote count at 4 and split the rest of our votes, tempting mafia to choose one of them to all vote for, if bwdero is mafia. of course if he isn't, well, he's still getting lynched.
and then i propose we do the same with hotzhot for the next lynch. put just enough votes on him to tempt mafia to vote for someone else if he is mafia
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Germany2896 Posts
On July 14 2008 02:58 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2008 23:44 MasterOfChaos wrote:Jeejee, If the game was balanced with everybody playing, then how does only 1/2 the town playing + us getting the list of blues + it still being close have the game balanced? I agree with that. The town made several really bad mistakes and still came out ahead, and only might lose due to inactivity in the end. (Yes the mafia wasn't too efficient with distributing their killingpower, but the town mistakes were FAR bigger than that). But of cause clues are extremly hard to balance. If you have sb like Plexa who gets much info from them they help town very much, if not the game easily swings the other way. I also have no idea what mafia/town ratio is good for such a game, as I'm only used to much smaller games with different rules (no clues, no major). mostly because the mafia sucked. i do think you underestimate the mistakes mafia made this game.
That might be very possible as I missed large parts of the midgame. The only major mistake I recall was the randombum massvoting.
btw is there a current list of confirmed innocents and suspects with a reasoning why they are suspicious. I think one of the main reasons for inactivity is, that once you missed a part of the thread, it is very hard to get back into the game without reading many pages.
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Can I ask what reasoning we have against/for Dr.Dragoon being mafia?
He voted for me, using a joke as his reasoning. However pledging that I was going to vote for the remainder of this game instantly places me as a target for the mafia. Is there any chance hes trying to influence public vote?
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![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLnight.png)
[noClueArea]
Seriously though, how do you make clues for someone named BWdero?
Everyone who has a special role and chooses to use it please send it to me via PM. Mafia this includes you!
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EPT
