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On June 08 2024 20:59 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:57 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:
Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all.[quote][quote]So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait?
Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him.
Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree  I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. No no no. They did not say the same things. Commenting on your early posting is different from what/how they are commenting about. I guess even if they said different things, I interpreted the things people said to be coming from the same place/caused by the same things. Specifically, I was playing at a band concert and thus was on my phone and it was the start of the game and I was joking around and messing with people instead of actually playing the game. Eventually, I got home to my computer and there was more to talk about, and so this changed. People pointed out different things about the initial playstyle, but unless you can explain why some of those claims are more or less valid than others, I am not sure what you are getting at. Even taking Mocsta out of the equation for a moment and talking generally I dont grasp how you don’t understand the devil is in the detail? It matters in what way it is off, because it’s a mindset thing. Sure? I think it depends on the situation though, no? Like it's possible that there are things in the details that are off and maybe it means something, and it's possible that there aren't?
I'm sorry I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I just don't actually understand what you are getting at.On June 07 2024 17:05 Mocsta wrote:
Have skim read. Trfel stood out to me as sentiment over a few posts felt forced / overly processed. Not sure if that's his meta though. Certainly not a scum claim. Also felt a little similar with rsoultin. It seems that your point is that this post doesn't have basis?
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I don't want to lynch raynpelikoneet today anyway. He already said his activity is limited this cycle, it seems extremely stupid to come up with reasons to suspect him after he has to leave and then lynch him before he gets a chance to respond. Like, why would we do that?
If someone could please say something that makes sense, I'd really appreciate it, this past hour has driven me absolutely insane.
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On June 08 2024 21:14 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:13 Trfel wrote:
I don't want to lynch raynpelikoneet today anyway. He already said his activity is limited this cycle, it seems extremely stupid to come up with reasons to suspect him after he has to leave and then lynch him before he gets a chance to respond. Like, why would we do that?
If someone could please say something that makes sense, I'd really appreciate it, this past hour has driven me absolutely insane. To be clear, this isn’t what I was suggesting Was more talking to others than you, and also the two paragraphs weren't related, sorry if that came off more aggressively than I meant.
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On June 08 2024 21:16 AlphaZero wrote:
I want to lynch Scott unless he comes back and shits town flavored rainbows. 🌈
That make sense trfel?? Yes and no, I understand that this is your perspective, but I disagree that doing so makes sense 
In my opinion this is the towniest game I've ever seen scott31337 play. I'm just not very inclined to lynch him in it tbh.
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On June 08 2024 21:20 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:18 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 21:16 AlphaZero wrote:
I want to lynch Scott unless he comes back and shits town flavored rainbows. 🌈
That make sense trfel?? Yes and no, I understand that this is your perspective, but I disagree that doing so makes sense In my opinion this is the towniest game I've ever seen scott31337 play. I'm just not very inclined to lynch him in it tbh. What do you propose then trfel? Kelsier lynch? It’s almost policy at this point. Yes, I've made it pretty clear that I want to lynch Kelsi3r. I don't think any other lynch is anywhere near as good.
I don't think it's policy at all, honestly to me it looks most like either:
1 - he got bullied out of the thread
or
2 - he got caught and lost motivation to post
Obviously I think it's the latter, though if there is reasoning for the former I am willing to reconsider.
Policy is lynching someone for activity or something like that. Kelsi3r was around, walked himself into a hole, got caught, and THEN stopped posting. Very, very different.
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If someone asks me about something I'm most likely going to respond. You're going to have to deal with it.
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On June 08 2024 21:26 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:25 Trfel wrote:
If someone asks me about something I'm most likely going to respond. You're going to have to deal with it. What’s the most disgusting sex you’ve ever had? Oh, I see.
Congratulations, you found the exception.
On June 08 2024 21:25 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:24 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 21:20 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 21:18 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 21:16 AlphaZero wrote:
I want to lynch Scott unless he comes back and shits town flavored rainbows. 🌈
That make sense trfel?? Yes and no, I understand that this is your perspective, but I disagree that doing so makes sense In my opinion this is the towniest game I've ever seen scott31337 play. I'm just not very inclined to lynch him in it tbh. What do you propose then trfel? Kelsier lynch? It’s almost policy at this point. Yes, I've made it pretty clear that I want to lynch Kelsi3r. I don't think any other lynch is anywhere near as good. I don't think it's policy at all, honestly to me it looks most like either: 1 - he got bullied out of the thread or 2 - he got caught and lost motivation to post Obviously I think it's the latter, though if there is reasoning for the former I am willing to reconsider. Policy is lynching someone for activity or something like that. Kelsi3r was around, walked himself into a hole, got caught, and THEN stopped posting. Very, very different. I don’t think the last part is what happened. I think it’s policy. I guess we're at a disagreement. I laid out two separate, strong reasons why Kelsi3r is likely mafia. If you don't agree then it is what it is.
I'm just going to pretend Oatsmaster doesn't exist for a while.
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On June 08 2024 21:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 11:38 Vivax wrote:On June 07 2024 20:11 Mocsta wrote:On June 07 2024 20:05 Kelsi3r wrote:On June 07 2024 20:02 Mocsta wrote:
How about why isn't rsoultin scum? Is she? Whats the case ? You have my vote now ##vote: kelsi3rFor being intentionally obtuse . This shouldn't be this hard mate Ah yes this is a vote that makes Mocsta mafia imo. Town points if you see what I see. His previous read on rsoultin was that he reverted to neutral but when he votes Kelsier it‘s because he expected him to easily see what made her scum after he stopped scumreading her. That‘s not only scummy in itself but implies also rsoultin or Kelsier as teammates if Mocsta is. But that‘s associative so meh. Uh, to be honest I don't think that's what happened?
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Starting on p10
Kelsi3r: AlphaZero has a good point about scott31337, not sure what it means about scott31337 but it makes AlphaZero and rsoultin look good
Mocsta: Asks Kelsi3r why the read on rsoultin matters with regards to AlphaZero, to be honest I don't know what this means
Kelsi3r: it's up to you why my read matters
Mocsta: you mentioned rsoultin affecting your read on AlphaZero (again idk what he is saying)
Kelsi3r: what don't you understand?
Mocsta: why isn't rsoultin mafia?
Kelsi3r: why is rsoultin mafia?
Mocsta: votes for Kelsi3r
I really don't think Mocsta is saying that rsoultin is mafia, rather, he is asking why Kelsi3r said rsoultin is towny. Huge difference.
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Sure thing. Honestly I'm surprised you are considering lynching die_meatbaby, you think she is mafia I assume?
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I guess I have a hard time matching Kelsi3r's attitude with his productiveness. If he got irritated or frustrated and left that's somewhat understandable, for some reason that's not the interpretation I have though? Maybe I am being biased here though.
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Like, he says "you need to drop this"....
If he's not going to play, why do I need to drop it, right?
"You're being obnoxious" and then afk is much more understandable.
Also accusing me of lying, right after pointing out things I did that he thought were towny, and right before leaving... Like if I am lying, then I am mafia, and he should want to get me lynched?
I just can't put together a mindset that makes it make sense. Any one thing, sure, but not the overall picture.
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On June 08 2024 22:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 22:54 Trfel wrote:
I guess I have a hard time matching Kelsi3r's attitude with his productiveness. If he got irritated or frustrated and left that's somewhat understandable, for some reason that's not the interpretation I have though? Maybe I am being biased here though. As I’ll probably have time for one more proper thing today. Earlier you said this was the towniest game of Scott’s you’d seen. Two things. Can you explain that to me further? Secondly, assuming it is true, is it possible this is the towniest game you’ve seen from him because he’s mafia? Do you see what I’m saying? For #2, I thought about that, it's maybe possible but I have no idea how I'd verify this. I don't think it's dramatically different from scott31337's other games. More like, same but better, as opposed to a major contrast.
#1 is subjective and depends on 8+ year old memory so it's very difficult to explain. But he made a list post, even if most of it was "this person is playing like they do as town so they are town" or "this person is playing like they do as mafia so they are mafia." And he actually looked at AlphaZero's filter and made a conclusion from it. That's pretty special, above the level I was expecting.
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On June 08 2024 23:06 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 23:04 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 22:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 22:54 Trfel wrote:
I guess I have a hard time matching Kelsi3r's attitude with his productiveness. If he got irritated or frustrated and left that's somewhat understandable, for some reason that's not the interpretation I have though? Maybe I am being biased here though. As I’ll probably have time for one more proper thing today. Earlier you said this was the towniest game of Scott’s you’d seen. Two things. Can you explain that to me further? Secondly, assuming it is true, is it possible this is the towniest game you’ve seen from him because he’s mafia? Do you see what I’m saying? For #2, I thought about that, it's maybe possible but I have no idea how I'd verify this. I don't think it's dramatically different from scott31337's other games. More like, same but better, as opposed to a major contrast. #1 is subjective and depends on 8+ year old memory so it's very difficult to explain. But he made a list post, even if most of it was "this person is playing like they do as town so they are town" or "this person is playing like they do as mafia so they are mafia." And he actually looked at AlphaZero's filter and made a conclusion from it. That's pretty special, above the level I was expecting. Playing devils advocate here. Is it above the level you were expecting because he already knows the answer? Tbh I don't follow, it's not about the conclusion, it's simply that he did it. Frankly his conclusion was not very good, but that's not the point. He actually had an idea and tried to find reasoning to prove his point.
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On June 08 2024 23:10 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 23:02 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 23:00 Trfel wrote:
Like, he says "you need to drop this"....
If he's not going to play, why do I need to drop it, right?
"You're being obnoxious" and then afk is much more understandable.
Also accusing me of lying, right after pointing out things I did that he thought were towny, and right before leaving... Like if I am lying, then I am mafia, and he should want to get me lynched?
I just can't put together a mindset that makes it make sense. Any one thing, sure, but not the overall picture. This is a fair point Still weighing this up. It’s the worst thing in his filter for sure. Eh, third worst, but oh well.
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Sorry, had some stuff going on. Will be mostly present until the deadline I think.
I note that Oatsmaster has not only antagonized me, but also now Vivax and rsoultin. I don't know what to make of this, but I really really don't like it.
I was expecting to have more thoughts but honestly I kinda don't. Whoops.
I don't have a reason to townread sandroba but I am just not convinced by the reasons to suspect him? Sorry if I'm just being bad. Like it wouldn't be the worst thing ever but it seems far from ideal to me.
If we're reaching here already, I'd like to suggest Oatsmaster or Alakaslam. Oatsmaster because he seems to be deliberately antagonizing people, Alakaslam due to the self-conscious thing at the start and overall lack of activity (which may not be a mafia indicator but maybe is worth a try anyway?). I still think Kelsi3r makes by far the most sense but if we want to do something else I can get over it for now.
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On June 08 2024 08:29 scott31337 wrote:I've read the thread but I've had a long day at work as well, so am a bit tired. I searched my name in Alpha's filter - 20 times at the moment And if you have been paying attention - keeps calling me scummy. I search for Vivax - 20 hours ago The rest is quotes from Vivax or others saying his name. A post an hour ago Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him And now he votes for him. But AZ has been calling me scummy all game so far. Seems suspicious to me. @Oatsmaster, it's really not that hard to find.
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On June 09 2024 08:04 rsoultin wrote:
what makes sandy 'far from ideal' compared to another null read like slam? i'm assuming null correct me if i'm wrong I actually think the Alakaslam self conscious thing is a legit reason. Maybe it's stupid, I know it's unproven, but it's at least a theory I consider worth investigating. Also I think having more time/material with which to read sandroba would benefit me, and I can't say the same for Alakaslam.
Side note, I am kinda getting hesitant about the Kelsi3r lynch, especially seeing that Grackaroni is looking for a replacement. If something happened to Kelsi3r forcing him to replace out at the wrong time, I can see that making him look really suspicious but actually being town. But even the Kelsi3r thing with doubts seems better to me than the other options right now. Will keep thinking about it.
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I guess tbh I never understood the whole "information created by a lynch" argument. Like I think the difference is very slight at most? But I know that's maybe an uncommon perspective so it is what it is.
I mean we can talk about lynching raynpelikoneet, I guess that's fine with me as long as we don't actually do it
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Don't have much to say but I am bored so here goes anyway
I could be wrong about Kelsi3r being mafia. I just think the reasons to suspect him are the strongest of anything in the thread, regardless of activity. If I wasn't so darn awful at day 1 I'd be more confident about this, but at this point it is what it is. I've said all there is to say.
I reread my filter from last game, the Paint game, looking for posts about scott31337. There was an opening tonal thing which didn't make sense to me but I don't think it's too similar to anything this game. But during day 1 he did make a reads post with no read on Oatsmaster, and then later voted for Oatsmaster. This in itself isn't bad, but when I asked him what changed, he said that Oatsmaster hadn't posted much before, and now that he'd posted, he looked scummy. But over half of Oatsmaster's posts were made before scott31337's reads post, where he had no thoughts on Oatsmaster.
If scott31337 had said that the new posts were scummier, that's more understandable. Or that he simply hadn't paid any attention to Oatsmaster before, that's understandable. But the explanation he gave simply didn't make sense given what had happened in the thread.
But he was town. So that's kind of my hesitation, scott31337 just thinks and communicates in a very different way than I do. This makes me want to find illogical things all over the place, but I'm just not sure if that's very helpful at all here.
Frankly, the reasons for suspecting scott31337 in this game don't give me reason to think it's any different, either. Sure, on the surface the things look bad, but I don't think they're any more likely to come from a mafia mindset than town? Bad and mafia are very different things.
I mean, scott31337 is player number 4, Kelsi3r is player number 10, we could compromise and lynch player number 7, so raynpelikoneet? XD
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EPT
