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On March 06 2024 09:23 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. What happened to your cake read? I still have it but I am less convinced about CopCake than rayn because I don't recall her seeming outright scummy, just not great/unproductive townie with a potentially questionable out-of-game statement, and though I struggle to understand CopCake sometimes, she's still miles ahead of Alakaslam in that department for me. So, she is the least lynchable of those three in my book ATM.
You literally pointed out scummy things in your list post and now you are backtracking to “not Great unproductive townie”??
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On March 06 2024 09:36 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:26 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:23 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. What happened to your cake read? I still have it but I am less convinced about CopCake than rayn because I don't recall her seeming outright scummy, just not great/unproductive townie with a potentially questionable out-of-game statement, and though I struggle to understand CopCake sometimes, she's still miles ahead of Alakaslam in that department for me. So, she is the least lynchable of those three in my book ATM. You literally pointed out scummy things in your list post and now you are backtracking to “not Great unproductive townie”?? Double-checked to make sure I wasn't having a stroke, here is what I said again just for convenience: Show nested quote +13) CopCake - I don’t know if it’s because I have a hard time following their mindset/writing, or because of their self-professed “style”, but I just did not find any of their Day 1 play to be all that productive. + Show Spoiler [Stuff] +On March 05 2024 03:57 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 03:55 Vivax wrote:On March 05 2024 03:45 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 03:40 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 05 2024 03:34 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 03:28 Vivax wrote:
I'm bothered by rayn's reaction here tbh I dont know if it is relevant but he was laughing hard in the other room. that makes him look scum. I loved beeing mafia in the last game because doing random shit like offering my life for HF who claimed blue and provoke other Townies is fun as hell. As Town I take it way more seriously. But maybe thats just me rayn loves to be more town than mafia. He has rolled mafia so many times that he is tired of that. I also prefer more mafia than town unless I get to be mafia three times in a row or so. This feels like the awkward moment where you need to make up for possibly exposing him as scum. Vivax, take a break please and come back. Because I think you know this can’t make sense. You’re just annoyed at the game and people in it and it leads to posts like this. ^ Don’t want to beat it to death but I did not like these CopCake posts, I did like the Vivax and marv posts here. On March 05 2024 04:42 sandroba wrote:
Why are you trying to keep this useless trash nai discussion going CopCake? ^ My thoughts exactly. I think my messaging has been pretty consistent here.
??? Your spoilered part specifically calls out posts you think are scummy
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On March 06 2024 09:37 DarthPunk wrote:Good sheep.
DMB is getting ridiculous pushback but it’s from fucking vivax so ..
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On March 06 2024 09:55 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 03:39 sandroba wrote:
I had an early town read on dmb, but she has then turned into more of a single threaded bot that only pops in to talk about the vivax claim. Not seeing as many unprompted inputs from her as I would expect from her as town. disagree. I just put my priorities in the right order. We only elect a mayor once and that has to be a safe thing for us. The lynch comes second for me, as I know from little but existing experience that the first lynch is almost always wrong, but that (maybe wrong) lynch 1 + Nk 1 helps us to find mafia
Any actual thoughts about the game
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On March 06 2024 10:05 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:53 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:36 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:26 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:23 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. What happened to your cake read? I still have it but I am less convinced about CopCake than rayn because I don't recall her seeming outright scummy, just not great/unproductive townie with a potentially questionable out-of-game statement, and though I struggle to understand CopCake sometimes, she's still miles ahead of Alakaslam in that department for me. So, she is the least lynchable of those three in my book ATM. You literally pointed out scummy things in your list post and now you are backtracking to “not Great unproductive townie”?? Double-checked to make sure I wasn't having a stroke, here is what I said again just for convenience: 13) CopCake - I don’t know if it’s because I have a hard time following their mindset/writing, or because of their self-professed “style”, but I just did not find any of their Day 1 play to be all that productive. + Show Spoiler [Stuff] +On March 05 2024 03:57 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 03:55 Vivax wrote:On March 05 2024 03:45 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 03:40 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 05 2024 03:34 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 03:28 Vivax wrote:
I'm bothered by rayn's reaction here tbh I dont know if it is relevant but he was laughing hard in the other room. that makes him look scum. I loved beeing mafia in the last game because doing random shit like offering my life for HF who claimed blue and provoke other Townies is fun as hell. As Town I take it way more seriously. But maybe thats just me rayn loves to be more town than mafia. He has rolled mafia so many times that he is tired of that. I also prefer more mafia than town unless I get to be mafia three times in a row or so. This feels like the awkward moment where you need to make up for possibly exposing him as scum. Vivax, take a break please and come back. Because I think you know this can’t make sense. You’re just annoyed at the game and people in it and it leads to posts like this. ^ Don’t want to beat it to death but I did not like these CopCake posts, I did like the Vivax and marv posts here. On March 05 2024 04:42 sandroba wrote:
Why are you trying to keep this useless trash nai discussion going CopCake? ^ My thoughts exactly. I think my messaging has been pretty consistent here. ??? Your spoilered part specifically calls out posts you think are scummy Yea, I didn't like them, hence not great/unproductive, which is almost exactly what I wrote in the post you're dissecting? I feel like you're manufacturing a semantics issue when there really isn't one. The fact remains that - before I was reminded that Alakaslam role-claimed cop - I thought both him and rayn would have been better lynches than CopCake. I don't see any contradictions in anything I've said. How about you, who do you think are scum? What are your reads atm?
You fully colored copcakes name but only half colored slams name.
What you described in your list post isn’t “unproductive” it’s scummy. Like idk why you are trying to portray differently now but that’s not how your initial post was like.
Idk maybe read my filter?
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On March 06 2024 10:08 DarthPunk wrote:'Is this in the vote thread?
Um yes totally
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On March 06 2024 10:26 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 10:03 iamperfection wrote:On March 06 2024 10:00 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 01:19 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 01:16 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 05 2024 20:02 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 05 2024 19:41 Palmar wrote:So I'm going to talk about a few people now. Consider this just rambling thoughts about the thread that I'm absolutely not going to read in full. Probably gonna do this in a few parts so my reads might evolve from now until I've done the last people I want to talk about. OatsmasterBoth initially, and currently, the reason he's my tentative #1 lynch target is based on exactly one thing, this: On March 04 2024 12:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
I’m running for mayor Go find that post in his filter, then read the following maybe... 20 posts? I don't think there is a single one of them where he is actually pushing to get himself elected as mayor. Ironically he scolded someone else for doing that same thing. On March 04 2024 12:39 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 DarthPunk wrote:
[quote]
I don't think pushing for it actually does anything. You don’t seem to even want to be mayor There really isn't much else to it. The case is simply "He said he wanted to be mayor but then none of his posting seems to point towards him actually wanting to be mayor". It's far from lock scum case, it's mostly just a bad play regardless of alignment, but it's... maybe easier to explain as an attempt to do something bold as mafia. I'm gonna read more before I plant a vote or anything. VisceraEyesPart of me just wants him to be town because I'm happy VE is playing, so I admit it may be an overreaching town read. But it's mostly a tone read. He seems to be happy to be playing the game. He said he wanted mayor and actually made a few follow up posts complaining no one was voting for him. Also this isn't even alignment indicative but it's super good. On March 05 2024 11:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
People saying unccd in a semi open setup is making my eyes roll so hard they're doing back flips. God I've never wished I was Mafia more in a game. I have zero interest in lynching VE today. DMBSo I haven't really read anything of hers but I just wanted to make this point. On March 05 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 05 2024 06:13 Palmar wrote:
[quote]
It's 8am in Iceland right now, what are you talking about? Iceland has 1 or 2 hours time difference than Austria. It is not possible. You come here and directly start to lie?? It should be 9:18 or 8 :18 PM She confuses me so much. I make something that's an obvious joke, and she jumps on it? Why? My gut is "well that's stupid and townies do stupid shit". But my meta is that she's perfectly willing to do stupid shit as mafia from last game. She does get townie points for completely forgetting I exist in her list post though. But yeah, I don't actually have a read on her, it's just something I noticed. Sorry for not having you in my list post. You had like one page on you Filter. You came in the game after like 60 Pages or something. You posted some good one liners that i actually liked. Especially that one that either people should vote Vivax for mayjor or for lynch. That one made think a litte bit about the other players here. I understand that people think the claim is a scum move but why do they not lynch him when they are not voting him as mayjor either?Still it was to less posting from you to make any kind of opinions on your aligment. I can just say I was not suspicious about your few posts just kinda liked them. Atm you are more likely Town for me, but beware, this can change quickly  Out of all the posts in the past like 12 hours DMB chooses this one to respond to, fence sits and doesn’t apply any of the bolded section to her list post earlier so where does that thinking even come out? Normaly i have day off, but somebody is sick and I had to come in fast. Didn't have much time to read. Btw list Was requested by rels. No answer from him atm So what have you learned from the bolded section? I have already used a translator 3 times, which means I have learnt 3 new words in English But for real I think the lynch is goeing in a wrong direction so what are you going to do? I don´t know, but I will not vote for Trfl right now. I don´t see any majorly scum shit at his filter. He plays like in the last game and he was actually doeing amzing as Town last game. So I would not like to loss him if he is Town. Actually I would like to vote on DP because he seems more scummy for me in this game, but that would be a usless vote... Vote: Justanothertownie
So is this just a poe not trfel so jat? Or what is this?
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On March 06 2024 10:31 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 10:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:26 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 10:03 iamperfection wrote:On March 06 2024 10:00 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 01:19 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 01:16 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 05 2024 20:02 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 05 2024 19:41 Palmar wrote:
So I'm going to talk about a few people now. Consider this just rambling thoughts about the thread that I'm absolutely not going to read in full. Probably gonna do this in a few parts so my reads might evolve from now until I've done the last people I want to talk about.
Oatsmaster
Both initially, and currently, the reason he's my tentative #1 lynch target is based on exactly one thing, this:
[quote]
Go find that post in his filter, then read the following maybe... 20 posts? I don't think there is a single one of them where he is actually pushing to get himself elected as mayor. Ironically he scolded someone else for doing that same thing.
[quote]
There really isn't much else to it. The case is simply "He said he wanted to be mayor but then none of his posting seems to point towards him actually wanting to be mayor".
It's far from lock scum case, it's mostly just a bad play regardless of alignment, but it's... maybe easier to explain as an attempt to do something bold as mafia. I'm gonna read more before I plant a vote or anything.
VisceraEyes
Part of me just wants him to be town because I'm happy VE is playing, so I admit it may be an overreaching town read.
But it's mostly a tone read. He seems to be happy to be playing the game. He said he wanted mayor and actually made a few follow up posts complaining no one was voting for him.
Also this isn't even alignment indicative but it's super good.
[quote]
I have zero interest in lynching VE today.
DMB
So I haven't really read anything of hers but I just wanted to make this point.
[quote]
She confuses me so much. I make something that's an obvious joke, and she jumps on it? Why? My gut is "well that's stupid and townies do stupid shit". But my meta is that she's perfectly willing to do stupid shit as mafia from last game.
She does get townie points for completely forgetting I exist in her list post though.
But yeah, I don't actually have a read on her, it's just something I noticed.
Sorry for not having you in my list post. You had like one page on you Filter. You came in the game after like 60 Pages or something. You posted some good one liners that i actually liked. Especially that one that either people should vote Vivax for mayjor or for lynch. That one made think a litte bit about the other players here. I understand that people think the claim is a scum move but why do they not lynch him when they are not voting him as mayjor either?Still it was to less posting from you to make any kind of opinions on your aligment. I can just say I was not suspicious about your few posts just kinda liked them. Atm you are more likely Town for me, but beware, this can change quickly Out of all the posts in the past like 12 hours DMB chooses this one to respond to, fence sits and doesn’t apply any of the bolded section to her list post earlier so where does that thinking even come out? Normaly i have day off, but somebody is sick and I had to come in fast. Didn't have much time to read. Btw list Was requested by rels. No answer from him atm So what have you learned from the bolded section? I have already used a translator 3 times, which means I have learnt 3 new words in English But for real I think the lynch is goeing in a wrong direction so what are you going to do? I don´t know, but I will not vote for Trfl right now. I don´t see any majorly scum shit at his filter. He plays like in the last game and he was actually doeing amzing as Town last game. So I would not like to loss him if he is Town. Actually I would like to vote on DP because he seems more scummy for me in this game, but that would be a usless vote... Vote: Justanothertownie So is this just a poe not trfel so jat? Or what is this? What exactly do you expect from me now?
Anything that shows actual attempts to scum hunt
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On March 06 2024 10:14 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 10:08 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:05 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:53 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:36 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:26 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:23 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:17 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. What happened to your cake read? I still have it but I am less convinced about CopCake than rayn because I don't recall her seeming outright scummy, just not great/unproductive townie with a potentially questionable out-of-game statement, and though I struggle to understand CopCake sometimes, she's still miles ahead of Alakaslam in that department for me. So, she is the least lynchable of those three in my book ATM. You literally pointed out scummy things in your list post and now you are backtracking to “not Great unproductive townie”?? Double-checked to make sure I wasn't having a stroke, here is what I said again just for convenience: 13) CopCake - I don’t know if it’s because I have a hard time following their mindset/writing, or because of their self-professed “style”, but I just did not find any of their Day 1 play to be all that productive. + Show Spoiler [Stuff] +On March 05 2024 03:57 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 03:55 Vivax wrote:On March 05 2024 03:45 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 03:40 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 05 2024 03:34 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 03:28 Vivax wrote:
I'm bothered by rayn's reaction here tbh I dont know if it is relevant but he was laughing hard in the other room. that makes him look scum. I loved beeing mafia in the last game because doing random shit like offering my life for HF who claimed blue and provoke other Townies is fun as hell. As Town I take it way more seriously. But maybe thats just me rayn loves to be more town than mafia. He has rolled mafia so many times that he is tired of that. I also prefer more mafia than town unless I get to be mafia three times in a row or so. This feels like the awkward moment where you need to make up for possibly exposing him as scum. Vivax, take a break please and come back. Because I think you know this can’t make sense. You’re just annoyed at the game and people in it and it leads to posts like this. ^ Don’t want to beat it to death but I did not like these CopCake posts, I did like the Vivax and marv posts here. On March 05 2024 04:42 sandroba wrote:
Why are you trying to keep this useless trash nai discussion going CopCake? ^ My thoughts exactly. I think my messaging has been pretty consistent here. ??? Your spoilered part specifically calls out posts you think are scummy Yea, I didn't like them, hence not great/unproductive, which is almost exactly what I wrote in the post you're dissecting? I feel like you're manufacturing a semantics issue when there really isn't one. The fact remains that - before I was reminded that Alakaslam role-claimed cop - I thought both him and rayn would have been better lynches than CopCake. I don't see any contradictions in anything I've said. How about you, who do you think are scum? What are your reads atm? You fully colored copcakes name but only half colored slams name. What you described in your list post isn’t “unproductive” it’s scummy. Like idk why you are trying to portray differently now but that’s not how your initial post was like. Idk maybe read my filter? Yea, because I find Alakaslam harder to read, which inherently means I can't be certain of his alignment but I can be certain that I don't think it helps town to be the way he is and that's why if I had to pick, I'd lynch him over CopCake. At least I can understand CopCake more often. To put it another way, if someone posts like Race Bannon - basically unintelligible gibberish - it's not really possible to have a strong scum read on them, but you can definitely feel like the game would be better off without them and make it easier to figure out, I guess? That's my thinking. But, this is all frankly irrelevant now that I have been reminded that Alakaslam role-claimed cop. Would be foolish to lynch him D1 IMO, and again, trains aren't there anyway. Re: filter, okay, will do.
Equity with cake imo this is some ridiculous waffle
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On March 06 2024 10:44 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:Especially when she is joining my wagon  I don´t really saw you making a wagon. It´s more like somebody kinda says that that person looks scummy and just tried to push a wagon on it or a lynch or whatever. Does´t really seem like you searching for actual mafia here just for a reasonable town lynch where you can say; before I started the wagon there where other people thinking the same. I was not alone.. blablabla.... Just already disapointed of you in this game. You big filter doesn´t make you direkty activ Town...
This is a scumslip
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On March 06 2024 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 10:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:44 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:Especially when she is joining my wagon I don´t really saw you making a wagon. It´s more like somebody kinda says that that person looks scummy and just tried to push a wagon on it or a lynch or whatever. Does´t really seem like you searching for actual mafia here just for a reasonable town lynch where you can say; before I started the wagon there where other people thinking the same. I was not alone.. blablabla.... Just already disapointed of you in this game. You big filter doesn´t make you direkty activ Town... This is a scumslip I don't see it.
Reasonable town lynch ie jat is town
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Plus dmb is on the fucking wagon she’s calling town
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On March 06 2024 10:51 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 10:50 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On March 06 2024 10:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:44 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:Especially when she is joining my wagon I don´t really saw you making a wagon. It´s more like somebody kinda says that that person looks scummy and just tried to push a wagon on it or a lynch or whatever. Does´t really seem like you searching for actual mafia here just for a reasonable town lynch where you can say; before I started the wagon there where other people thinking the same. I was not alone.. blablabla.... Just already disapointed of you in this game. You big filter doesn´t make you direkty activ Town... This is a scumslip I don't see it. Reasonable town lynch ie jat is town Is that a stretch though, could be ESL
What’s the difficulty? She’s callling the lynch town AND shes on it
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On March 06 2024 10:53 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Yeah I don't see that either, she's saying
"I think DP is mafia looking for a reasonable looking town lynch" and it would be town to DP if DP Mafia.
She’s specifically saying this to the current vote that dp is on
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On March 06 2024 10:59 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 10:53 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:51 DarthPunk wrote:On March 06 2024 10:50 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On March 06 2024 10:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:44 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:Especially when she is joining my wagon I don´t really saw you making a wagon. It´s more like somebody kinda says that that person looks scummy and just tried to push a wagon on it or a lynch or whatever. Does´t really seem like you searching for actual mafia here just for a reasonable town lynch where you can say; before I started the wagon there where other people thinking the same. I was not alone.. blablabla.... Just already disapointed of you in this game. You big filter doesn´t make you direkty activ Town... This is a scumslip I don't see it. Reasonable town lynch ie jat is town Is that a stretch though, could be ESL What’s the difficulty? She’s callling the lynch town AND shes on it Can you read? I didn´t say JAT is Town i just said I am not happy with both wagons. Should I waste my vote. Did it in my first game. OPEN YOU EYES AND READ CORRECTLY PLS
You literally said that DP is searching for a reasonable town lynch when referring to him talking about his wagon.
Lol this is hilarious
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On March 06 2024 10:56 Jealous wrote:
^ Fixing:
Town:
Koshi (previously scum voted)*
Iamperfection
Rayn
Palmar
NA:
DarthPunk
sandroba
Trfel
marvellosity
Jealous
Meapak_Ziphh
Hapahauli
ToTheStars
Rels
Alakaslam
Scum:
VE
Jacob
DMB
CopCake
Slam
Vivax
JAT
Koshi*
Also: "I do agree that either both [rayn and marv] are mafia or rayn is town."
Explanations on the additions to your scum list?
Also vote dmb
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On March 06 2024 10:54 Jealous wrote:I don't want to misrep Oats so I will be limiting to what I consider reads to being their "votes" in this thread and if they ever directly say that someone is scummy/town. Simply "I don't like this (post)" is not enough IMO. In chronological order" + Show Spoiler [Links] +So we have: Town:
Koshi (previously scum voted)*
Iamperfection
Rayn
Palmar
NA:
DarthPunk
sandroba
Trfel
marvellosity
Jealous
Meapak_Ziphh
Hapahauli
ToTheStars
Rels
Alakaslam
Scum:
VE
Jacob
DMB
CopCake
Slam
Vivax
JAT
Koshi*
Also: "I do agree that either both [rayn and marv] are mafia or rayn is town."
Seem right, @Oats? [/green]
Oh sorry I misread but I think vivax is town now and jat is town now
Jacob more null slam town
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On March 06 2024 10:57 JacobStrangelove wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 10:53 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:51 DarthPunk wrote:On March 06 2024 10:50 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On March 06 2024 10:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 06 2024 10:44 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:Especially when she is joining my wagon I don´t really saw you making a wagon. It´s more like somebody kinda says that that person looks scummy and just tried to push a wagon on it or a lynch or whatever. Does´t really seem like you searching for actual mafia here just for a reasonable town lynch where you can say; before I started the wagon there where other people thinking the same. I was not alone.. blablabla.... Just already disapointed of you in this game. You big filter doesn´t make you direkty activ Town... This is a scumslip I don't see it. Reasonable town lynch ie jat is town Is that a stretch though, could be ESL What’s the difficulty? She’s callling the lynch town AND shes on it Oh not a word slip a motive slip. Hmm it's I guess kinda a slip in that sense, I think DP scum doing random stuff trying to vote for a town but I'll also vote for one of the two people DP pushed. I forget her motivation for voting was it better of the two (bad) options in her opinion or was there something else?
Even if you don’t see the slip, it’s really scummy to be voting on the wagon started by your only scumread and not even mention that for a second
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EPT
