On March 14 2024 22:30 justanothertownie wrote:I'll start from the top and immediately ignore the first 2 entries. In both cases there is a 0.01 % chance that they are mafia but reading their filters is just not worth it for different reasons. I am not a masochist. Jealous:People really like his first list post - I will not quote it here since it would bloat this post because he said Hapa was town and that I would not go against Vivax mayor campaign. I think both of these things can easily be done by mafia. Especially since he is not applying this logic consistently as can be seen in his treatment of CC later. He is also not consistent in the way he goes about the 2 day1 claims: Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:20 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:15 DarthPunk wrote:On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. Look at the Sandro case I posted a little while ago. Yea, I keep forgetting to refresh after writing something and before I ask for stuff. Saw several posts on the previous page, gonna re-read them again. Thanks! On March 06 2024 09:16 Vivax wrote:On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. The only thing that bugs me when you write is that you actually go and look so hard into Slam well knowing he claimed cop. The only natural reaction would be 'meh, self-resolving' yet you still seem to believe there's something to be found and worth pursuing. So if he flips mafia at some point it'd make you look worse tbh. Ooh, I guess I didn't catch that; my bad on that. My eyes must have glazed over while reading his word salad, plus there is the issue of CopCake's name making that word not stand out as much as it probably should have (and sometimes being abbreviated as CC and sometimes not). Will go dive into that after I catch up on the JAT stuff. To be clear, if Alakaslam claimed cop role and there were no counter-claims by anyone, then yea, not gonna lynch him D1. If I can't get a read on him then that means that I can't really have much conviction in the fact that he is fake-claiming. Better safe than sorry. This looks like an overexplanation to me. I mean of course it is different since he said he was scumreading slam but you can at this point just say - he claimed so he is town until cc. With Vivax it is really different: Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 11:40 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 11:37 Trfel wrote:On March 06 2024 11:36 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 11:35 die_meatbaby wrote:On March 06 2024 11:32 Trfel wrote:
Why is die_meatbaby mafia? I really didn't think she was suspicious at all, she seemed far more reasonable than last game. Would be very hesitant to suspect her.
May actually be worth taking another look at Vivax because he should know this. I called dp mafia... I was to lazy to quote and stuff and two sentences wasn´t enough for oats and Dp. I am not happy with both wagons (both pushed by dp) and I still voted one of the two wagons But I shouldn´t because not wasting my vote makes me scummy. and i my called people stupid that makes me more scummy Would like to hear from other people's perspectives but this really really REALLY does not sound like mafia. Look at Vivax/iamperfection, that's the best I have. With Vivax claiming JK on D1 with no counter-claim, what percentage chance is there that scum!Vivax actually does that and gets away with it? If I understood the premise correctly, I expect it to be about 0%. Am I missing something? Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 03:58 Jealous wrote:On March 07 2024 03:55 justanothertownie wrote:On March 07 2024 03:43 Jealous wrote:
So QED CopCake, even if town, is being more of a hindrance than a beneficial force.
The same was true for Vivax yesterday - did you push him for it? And that is only one example. Disagree, with the KP claim I basically had to assume he had to be town because a gambit of that level as scum just seems too insane/suicidal. So, I have to operate on the logic that Vivax is town and try to find scum instead. If things don't improve with him as mayor/"KP" long-term, then I'll have to consider abandoning my hypothesis. Seems like he is struggling a bit to justify getting off slam. He also never questioned the Oats lynch and lauded MZ for trying to shut down anything else: Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 23:15 Jealous wrote:On March 07 2024 20:45 justanothertownie wrote:On March 07 2024 15:05 Jealous wrote:On March 07 2024 14:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Everyone read post on MZ I didn't like some of MZ's earlier posts. I too wished they had explained their TRs in that most recent list, and an explanation for the CopCake flip would have been great, too. However, I really like this immediate jump on CopCake for being so insistent on grilling Alakaslam. And none of that really changes anything for me for this cycle as of now, so yea, good night. I disagree completely. Why is it protown to shut down discussion about the claimant and the check? Are we supposed to all just park our vote for 72 hours and go afk? To me what CopCake did here is objectively 100 % the correct way to approach this. It is lazy and not town oriented to go after this. I think it says more about MZs alignment than CCs but the tendency is exactly the opposite of what you are saying in my opinion. It makes MZ look really bad and CC slightly better. Because as I see it, there is only one correct answer for how to approach this cycle and lynch, and spending so much effort grilling Slam about it is just trying to sow seeds of chaos for no reason, which only serves to benefit our only scum flip. Thus, the fact that MZ jumped in and tried to shut that shit down looks good on them. I would say that about anyone who did that. MZ really sunk their teeth into it, too - even though they probably didn't have to. Perhaps I am missing something; is there any world you see where we don't lynch Oats? What would need to happen for that to be the case, what would be the town's collective reasoning for that? On March 07 2024 20:52 justanothertownie wrote:
I still think Oats is quite towny btw. - also in his reaction to the check. Still 100 % the lynch today but it would not surprise me if he flipped Miller. Okay, glad I remembered to keep reading before responding. However, if that is what your opinion is, I guess I don't understand seeing Cop in a favorable light when they claim to not see a world where Slam was scum in the first place but chose to grill Slam anyway. Is this a person who just doesn't understand how the game works at all, or is it just a scummy player doing scummy things yet again? This might be bias, but compare it to how Koshi just did basically the same thing but in a more productive way. I do have to say that I am surprised that he is approaching the topic from this angle at all, but the way he is doing it is way better than just repeating "WHY OATS SLAM?!?" and then looking like you don't understand that there is a small chance that Oats is Miller or Slam is being a madman scum. Like I already said, while lynching oats was always the correct thing to do as town here. I fully expect most of the mafia players to not make themselves look bad by trying to derail. Especially not newer mafia players like Jealous who might be uncomfortable playing mafia. He also had this weird interactions with Oats where he made listposts of Oats reads. More odd than scummy tbh. but why do that for Oats and not other people? They only had some very superficial interactions apart from that where Jealous was asking oats "where are you at? who is mafia?". Lost that post right now. More egregious is however how different he treats me and CC. He is basically harddefending me at times for being against the Vivax mayor election: Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:32 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:03 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 23:12 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. I disagree. Trfel last game was pretty similar to this, he did some burst of activity then vanished for a while. I was suspicious of him all the way through d1/n1 because of the structuring of his posts and they style of his activity. He was not a high volume poster and conviction was not his forte. He basically had the game figured out d3 but wasn't pushing any of it. It took me some deep diving to actually identify he was correct on everything. I think it's stupid to look into him as the quality of what he has posted has been very good so far. If he is mafia it will be hard for him to keep up as the game progresses and he has to justify hard positions and keep up appearances. My current suspect list is palmar/jat/rels, rels being the one I feel less strongly about. Palmar looks more and more tame and awful every time he posts. JAT: catches up to the thread but basically only ever comments on Koshi related stuff. A lot of his commentary is meaningless and his questions are not sharp. He apparently wants Koshi for mayor, but this is not a real position since koshi himself wants vivax and it doesn't seem like jat really wants it or thinks it's a realistic thing that will happen. It just fills up space and buddies up to koshi. On March 05 2024 20:59 justanothertownie wrote:
Apparently people are dead set on making Vivax mayor. They cannot all be mafia even though I would bet a lot of money that mafia is on board.
The logic apparently being Vivax wouldn't make such a bad play as mafia. The disconnect here is that he did the bad play regardless of his alignment but for some reason only town can be bad in people's minds. I disagree with that but I really don't know what to do about it except for complaining and offering a better alternative which is koshi right now. What am I supposed to do in your opinion, rayn? The above post is complacent and disinterested. The reasoning for Vivax possibly being mafia is very shallow analysis and very lazily written, not trying to convince anyone. JAT is solely focused on this mayor thing, he is not very involved and he is making no effort to actually find anyone that is suspicious. He is sticking to easy topics and being lazy in his comments. Even the mayor thing he doesn't care enough about to make any real contributions. He cares about nothing, yet he is still posting here pretending to engage. JAT is mafia. I mean, this is a great post by sandroba, and an example for why I have them as one of my top town reads. I see what they're saying. I just still struggle to see JAT fighting so hard against a Vivax mayor campaign for so long because it looks so bad. Does the scum team not try to stop him and say "hey, this isn't really a good idea and looks bad?" Does JAT just ignore his scum team and go rogue? It just doesn't seem like it makes sense, and I know that they've played a lot of games... Does a veteran player really do all that, knowing the attention it will bring to their position? So, for now, going to ##Vote: Trfel and revisit Alakaslam to see exactly when and where they cop-claimed. Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 08:57 Jealous wrote:On March 07 2024 08:36 Vivax wrote:On March 07 2024 08:25 Jealous wrote:On March 07 2024 07:30 Vivax wrote:On March 06 2024 09:32 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 09:03 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 23:12 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:
[quote]
Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that.
I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way.
Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. I disagree. Trfel last game was pretty similar to this, he did some burst of activity then vanished for a while. I was suspicious of him all the way through d1/n1 because of the structuring of his posts and they style of his activity. He was not a high volume poster and conviction was not his forte. He basically had the game figured out d3 but wasn't pushing any of it. It took me some deep diving to actually identify he was correct on everything. I think it's stupid to look into him as the quality of what he has posted has been very good so far. If he is mafia it will be hard for him to keep up as the game progresses and he has to justify hard positions and keep up appearances. My current suspect list is palmar/jat/rels, rels being the one I feel less strongly about. Palmar looks more and more tame and awful every time he posts. JAT: catches up to the thread but basically only ever comments on Koshi related stuff. A lot of his commentary is meaningless and his questions are not sharp. He apparently wants Koshi for mayor, but this is not a real position since koshi himself wants vivax and it doesn't seem like jat really wants it or thinks it's a realistic thing that will happen. It just fills up space and buddies up to koshi. On March 05 2024 20:59 justanothertownie wrote:
Apparently people are dead set on making Vivax mayor. They cannot all be mafia even though I would bet a lot of money that mafia is on board.
The logic apparently being Vivax wouldn't make such a bad play as mafia. The disconnect here is that he did the bad play regardless of his alignment but for some reason only town can be bad in people's minds. I disagree with that but I really don't know what to do about it except for complaining and offering a better alternative which is koshi right now. What am I supposed to do in your opinion, rayn? The above post is complacent and disinterested. The reasoning for Vivax possibly being mafia is very shallow analysis and very lazily written, not trying to convince anyone. JAT is solely focused on this mayor thing, he is not very involved and he is making no effort to actually find anyone that is suspicious. He is sticking to easy topics and being lazy in his comments. Even the mayor thing he doesn't care enough about to make any real contributions. He cares about nothing, yet he is still posting here pretending to engage. JAT is mafia. I mean, this is a great post by sandroba, and an example for why I have them as one of my top town reads. I see what they're saying. I just still struggle to see JAT fighting so hard against a Vivax mayor campaign for so long because it looks so bad. Does the scum team not try to stop him and say "hey, this isn't really a good idea and looks bad?" Does JAT just ignore his scum team and go rogue? It just doesn't seem like it makes sense, and I know that they've played a lot of games... Does a veteran player really do all that, knowing the attention it will bring to their position? So, for now, going to ##Vote: Trfel and revisit Alakaslam to see exactly when and where they cop-claimed. He highly praises Sandro for something that is strictly a JAT case, then votes Trfel because of claim wifom. There's going to be mafia that just mayored the claim, and mafia that didn't or even fought it. Hard truth. I mean, I explained why I thought that even though sandroba's push against JAT reflects well on sandroba, I still find it too outlandish to vote JAT over Trfel who was just largely absent. If the options are JAT and Trfel and the people I townread are pushing for these two, I'm not going to pick someone else? If Trfel indeed flipped scum and I didn't vote for them at this juncture, would look pretty stupid and would make town waste a lot of time making a case against someone who I know is town (me). That's not in my best interest as town. I guess in theory I could have tried to push harder for CopCake/rayn but there was no traction there and in the end they are just an "I can't understand this person"/D1 read, respectively. So, not much motivation to try and disrupt plans laid out by my strongest townreads. I don't think it was as clearly cut as you put it. I believe that anyone fighting for Trfel to be lynched in the end has a massively high probabiliy to be town while scum was mostly absent after parking. It indicates that they at least believed in what they were voting. I don't see any indication that you believed your vote would hit mafia at any point. You just walked into the store and grabbed your preferred lynch among the shelves that people put closest to you and walked out. Where's any conviction behind what you said? No second guessing yourself ? I believed in the town!people who believed that the Trfel vote would hit mafia more than I believed that scum!JAT would paint a target on his back by pushing against your claim/town nature so strongly, and more than I believed in my analysis after catching up on 100+ pages (versus the analysis of people who digested the information in real-time). Copcake however is mafia for doing basically the same thing. Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 09:38 Jealous wrote:On March 07 2024 09:08 Vivax wrote:@ Jealous I believed in the town!people who believed that the Trfel vote would hit mafia more than I believed that scum!JAT would paint a target on his back by pushing against your claim/town nature so strongly, and more than I believed in my analysis after catching up on 100+ pages (versus the analysis of people who digested the information in real-time).
Tsk.Tsk. But you put copcake into your scumreads. You can't sell to anyone in this game that copcake put less effort than JAT into doubting my claim and making me mafia and at the very least it's the same degree of effort. It was my genuine impression. He seemed to be driving that train of thought based on how I read it. Meanwhile... On March 07 2024 09:08 Vivax wrote:
Why didn't you use this type of argument on her like you did on JAT if it's all it took to make you favour Trfel over JAT?
I believe this makes you caught buddy. Had to dive to see when exactly she jumped on that train because I am pretty certain it wasn't her starting it and I see this: On March 05 2024 02:56 CopCake wrote:
I also do not understand the whole vivax is town because he claimed jailkeeper because that is bullshit.
Not because the logic of the whole scenario but because I think he is the type of player to be insane enough as mafia to do something like that. So, sure, she agrees with it, but she is just sheeping IMO. I don't think a scum!JAT is dumb enough to put himself under the line of fire for this take. But I can see scum!CopCake sheeping him once he does and hoping to make something out of nothing. On March 07 2024 09:08 Vivax wrote:Not just that:
On March 05 2024 04:42 sandroba wrote:
Why are you trying to keep this useless trash nai discussion going CopCake?
This is a post you wholeheartedly agreed with. But the useless nai trash discussion is also what you used to justify not voting JAT. Mostly referring to the call-out by sandroba itself and her posting being a part of what I found to be mostly trash posting in general up until that point, including the tea party, sharks, townreading the two people she invited to her tea party basically immediately, etc. Show nested quote +On March 11 2024 13:51 Jealous wrote:On March 11 2024 13:47 Vivax wrote:
She doubted my claim all the time during D1 but that doesn‘t earn her a free townread from Jealous ? Why for Jat then. Because JAT made the case when it didn't make sense to do so as scum because it painted a target on his back, she sheeped it and came out unscathed, and she has proven that she doesn't know how to read, so her sheeping it is NAI at best, optimistic scum at worst. I don't think the characterization of her sheeping me on anything is fair. Since then it has been a proper CopCake tunnel. And he really tunnels hard here.The only other people he has voted this game are Trfel and Oats (after the check). I think he has a hard time changing his reads/is very static about them, which is something mafia players tend to struggle with. He is not ruffling any feathers all game with one specific exception and that is Copcake. Massive effort if he is mafia though - respect. And sorry Vivax for not seeing this earlier.
So this is a hard scumread?
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EPT
