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On December 11 2023 18:38 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 18:38 DarthPunk wrote:
Marv why are you not obv town right now? How long is a piece of string?
That's a terrible answer. Even worse is that you were obv lurking the thread and you weren't doing anything.
You are smart enough to know how bad your filter looks right now, I'm worried because you don't seem to be doing town Marv things. In fact, the opposite.
Please make everything ok so I don't have to try and lynch you again.
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Actually I just happened to press refresh after my meeting, but okay.
Yawn to the rest, there is nothing wrong with my filter.
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On December 11 2023 17:17 DarthPunk wrote:
For the record trfel what is your read on me right now, you seem to have dropped it entirely. I'm taking a break from reading you since it wasn't being very productive. Will re-evaluate at some point.
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Why I am voting for Marv, and maybe you should too.
The last two games Marv has rolled scum. I played in those games with him for days and days.
In those games I gave Marv the benefit of the doubt, I waited patiently for him to find scum or to pursue a scum hunting agenda.
I saw flagging activity levels and a lack of serious engagement with the game and the thread.
Instead of sharp and opinionated I saw a feigned confusion and disconnection with the thread.
I really hope I am wrong but I am seeing the same things in this game.
The crux of the matter is that Marv is really not engaged with the thread, it happened a few times and it bothered me starting with:
On December 10 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 20:18 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
If I came In the the thread first and had called out sandro’s post, I would think it was insane DP was calling me on it.
Just sayin. I think DarthPunk is focusing more on the way I brought up suspicion about sandroba's post rather than just that I did it, but I could be wrong? On December 10 2023 20:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:
I'm not expecting some huge commitment or 100% certain reads or anything like that. But I think it's reasonable to expect something of substance. Sandroba failed to provide that. I understand people wanting to share thoughts, even if they aren't sure about the conclusions, but at the same time it's a game of mafia where the conclusions about people's alignments is ultimately what matters. My point about sandroba isn't that he didn't have any strong conclusions, it's the amount of thoughts he shared without any conclusions whatsoever and the way that he seemingly undermined any conclusion he could have made with doubt and take-backsies or whatever you want to call it. I don't think that everything needs to progress the game necessarily, or have a distinct purpose, it's that sandroba's post is the type of post that should have a purpose but just doesn't.
What kind of substance are you expecting? he literally posted the 10th post of the game? If you go back to that quote I made with the red and take out the stuff in red then it would have had substantial conclusions. Yes, he is, but I don’t understand why you’d legitimise the attack on what, I would assume, would be your legit read on sandro’s post. Now I don’t like any of you :/
I actually thought this was a promising start from Marv, he didn't like either of us, we were going at each other and there was stuff happening.
On December 11 2023 01:35 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 01:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:29 marvellosity wrote:
It’s baseless so there’s not a lot I can say about it really most of the stuff is quite baseless atm, though Also maybe, but I’m more interested in what happened so far than I usually am from the first few pages of a game
But he just kind of said things, ostensibly interested but actually not commenting at all
On December 10 2023 23:12 marvellosity wrote:
I’m on the fence. It’s made me interested though
On December 11 2023 01:35 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 01:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:29 marvellosity wrote:
It’s baseless so there’s not a lot I can say about it really most of the stuff is quite baseless atm, though Also maybe, but I’m more interested in what happened so far than I usually am from the first few pages of a game
See I have this problem, Marv is -sharp- he knows what is happening when he is engaged with the game, which he says he is, even more so than usual.
On December 11 2023 06:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am gonna take a little break. My feet have been cold for like 3 days because of shitty socks, and i just want to go to sauna now that i can. Will be back in an hour.
If anyone would like to have an opinion on Holyflare, and especially on what i said on him, i would appreciate. I admit I can’t make much of any of it…
This is something I noticed the past few mafia games, marv really likes to play dumb, unsure or confused.
He can do that and comment on the things that are passing by without ever adding anything,
Case in point:
On December 11 2023 06:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am gonna take a little break. My feet have been cold for like 3 days because of shitty socks, and i just want to go to sauna now that i can. Will be back in an hour.
If anyone would like to have an opinion on Holyflare, and especially on what i said on him, i would appreciate. I admit I can’t make much of any of it…
Rayn asks for an opinion on holyflare. Marv is.... Non-commital.
On December 11 2023 07:34 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 06:35 Trfel wrote:
I think at this point I'd be okay with lynching Koshi (if he is going to play like this), and potentially okay with lynching DarthPunk. Sandroba's recent set of posts were more interesting to me, I didn't necessarily agree with everything he was saying but it helps me to put together his mindset/approach. Holyflare's point that he's focusing on defending himself from presumed incorrect accusations instead of actually finding mafia or being productive is strong, now that he's actually shared suspicions I look forward to him coming back tomorrow. Vivax I could definitely see being mafia but I don't think I want to lynch him as much as Koshi or DarthPunk at this point. Holyflare is not townie in any way, in any point of his game. He might be misguided as fuck but never ever has he done anything townie. Not sure I agree, I can follow his thoughts
Two unrelated posts later.
Marv thinks holyflare is town, or at least not mafia because he can follow his thoughts. Why does Marv not say that in the first place? Why does he say nothing at all when it is clear he in fact has something to say?
I went and checked in the thread between those posts, holyflare had not posted anything.
On December 11 2023 07:41 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 07:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 07:34 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 06:35 Trfel wrote:
I think at this point I'd be okay with lynching Koshi (if he is going to play like this), and potentially okay with lynching DarthPunk. Sandroba's recent set of posts were more interesting to me, I didn't necessarily agree with everything he was saying but it helps me to put together his mindset/approach. Holyflare's point that he's focusing on defending himself from presumed incorrect accusations instead of actually finding mafia or being productive is strong, now that he's actually shared suspicions I look forward to him coming back tomorrow. Vivax I could definitely see being mafia but I don't think I want to lynch him as much as Koshi or DarthPunk at this point. Holyflare is not townie in any way, in any point of his game. He might be misguided as fuck but never ever has he done anything townie. Not sure I agree, I can follow his thoughts really? then we have a problem as well. i dont think it's a good problem for either of us, but we will have a problem... Well, HF is naturally problematic… 
and then its back again to nothing at all. Having happily quelled any progress in rayns read.
On December 11 2023 07:43 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 07:42 Koshi wrote:@Tfrel and DP. The mafias are not reading you guys mafia. So don't be dumb and argue as TvT all game ok? They will like that and post like mafia!marv is doing to keep it going. Be friends. You are both green. I believe in you. On December 11 2023 01:49 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:36 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:34 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:29 marvellosity wrote:
It’s baseless so there’s not a lot I can say about it really most of the stuff is quite baseless atm, though As in literally there’s not an explanation. well i think my educated guess is correct. take that as you want On what sorry? There’s 2 votes on you and 1 on me and I don’t understand any of them Let's say there would be votes on two people you would understand them to be on, who would they be? sandro for obvious reasons Didn’t like DP’s attack on Trfel nor Trfel’s subsequent defence of those posts, but maybe DP is being DP (I think we established this year that we don’t think the same) and Trfel has been tenacious. So maybe Vivax, primarily because I don’t find his posts very interesting On December 11 2023 03:37 Holyflare wrote:On December 11 2023 03:24 Trfel wrote:On December 11 2023 03:21 Holyflare wrote:
hi How are you doing, Holyflare? Curious why you think raynpelikoneet is mafia? Convuluted af reasons really. I thought Sandroba was quite likely to be mafia and Palmar made this post: + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2023 17:54 Palmar wrote:
Sandroba correctly identified Slam’s best post (smiley thing) and also noticed how excellent it was but somehow convinced himself to not make a good read on it.
Brazilposting in crisis? Implicating that Palmar was ready to bus sandro because the reasoning here is extremely tenuous imo. I don't believe that palmar thinks the post is good but simultaneously uses it to discredit sandro. Maybe he would but I don't think so. It feels more like thread influence has made palmar take the read and use it as his own stance for slam and then try and double down on the sandro read. Reading into this and then seeing rayn post some drivel like: + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2023 18:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar pros town here. kinda made me think that maybe I was doing palmar a disservice and he could come up with something like that and rayn was just TMIing palmar as town because I don't think anything palmar said should be really conclusive for palmar's alignment in the slightest, especially not to this degree that rayn was talking about he's since given more elaborated reasoning for it like: + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2023 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 23:03 marvellosity wrote:
What I’m saying is his posting so far is pretty normal. He doesn’t have to be town of course but it’s well within normal tolerance.
Do you also remember he doesn't play during the weekends and does basically the minimum amount to survive as mafia? On December 11 2023 01:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 01:24 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2023 23:03 marvellosity wrote:
What I’m saying is his posting so far is pretty normal. He doesn’t have to be town of course but it’s well within normal tolerance.
Do you also remember he doesn't play during the weekends and does basically the minimum amount to survive as mafia? Is that supposed to change something? Idk, i would think Palmar would hide under "no play during weekends" esp since most of the players should know that, rather than post basically anything other than "it's weekend bye!" The stuff he said is also okay. It's not that i even think Vivax is mafia, probably opposite tbh, but his read on Palmar is based on wrong premises imo, if Palmar and sandroba would be both mafia, that would definitely not be something Palmar does in my opinion. Oh i also think DP and sandroba are not both mafia, now that i remember. Which I guess is somewhat accetable but it's still a really silly reason to base the read on that.
Think I'm more leaning on going on vivax atm though because he's playing way too normal and trfel is right that his post to sandroba is self-fulfilling. Not really sure, not that into the game atm. Marv looks ok, trfel looks good imo, DP is (?) but leaning on the side of ok. Slam is kinda just chilling so I don't really know what to read into that but I think he's had enough defenders in the thread over really mediocre points that game state might be pointing to him being town too. Vivax, Koshi, chez, sandro, meatbaby and palmar is a good list of LHF to get through for the time being. Maybe throw in a rayn in there but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Palmar and rayn probably the weakest in being in this list so will see what they get up to while I work throw the others. Keep what going? I haven’t addressed DP/Trfel at all?
More do you remember where marv said
On December 10 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:
Now I don’t like any of you :/
Meaning myself and Trfel
On December 11 2023 01:35 marvellosity wrote:
Also maybe, but I’m more interested in what happened so far than I usually am from the first few pages of a game
and this about how engaged he was?
On December 11 2023 07:43 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 07:42 Koshi wrote:@Tfrel and DP. The mafias are not reading you guys mafia. So don't be dumb and argue as TvT all game ok? They will like that and post like mafia!marv is doing to keep it going. Be friends. You are both green. I believe in you. On December 11 2023 01:49 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:36 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:34 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:29 marvellosity wrote:
It’s baseless so there’s not a lot I can say about it really most of the stuff is quite baseless atm, though As in literally there’s not an explanation. well i think my educated guess is correct. take that as you want On what sorry? There’s 2 votes on you and 1 on me and I don’t understand any of them Let's say there would be votes on two people you would understand them to be on, who would they be? sandro for obvious reasons Didn’t like DP’s attack on Trfel nor Trfel’s subsequent defence of those posts, but maybe DP is being DP (I think we established this year that we don’t think the same) and Trfel has been tenacious. So maybe Vivax, primarily because I don’t find his posts very interesting On December 11 2023 03:37 Holyflare wrote:On December 11 2023 03:24 Trfel wrote:On December 11 2023 03:21 Holyflare wrote:
hi How are you doing, Holyflare? Curious why you think raynpelikoneet is mafia? Convuluted af reasons really. I thought Sandroba was quite likely to be mafia and Palmar made this post: + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2023 17:54 Palmar wrote:
Sandroba correctly identified Slam’s best post (smiley thing) and also noticed how excellent it was but somehow convinced himself to not make a good read on it.
Brazilposting in crisis? Implicating that Palmar was ready to bus sandro because the reasoning here is extremely tenuous imo. I don't believe that palmar thinks the post is good but simultaneously uses it to discredit sandro. Maybe he would but I don't think so. It feels more like thread influence has made palmar take the read and use it as his own stance for slam and then try and double down on the sandro read. Reading into this and then seeing rayn post some drivel like: + Show Spoiler +On December 10 2023 18:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar pros town here. kinda made me think that maybe I was doing palmar a disservice and he could come up with something like that and rayn was just TMIing palmar as town because I don't think anything palmar said should be really conclusive for palmar's alignment in the slightest, especially not to this degree that rayn was talking about he's since given more elaborated reasoning for it like: + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2023 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 23:03 marvellosity wrote:
What I’m saying is his posting so far is pretty normal. He doesn’t have to be town of course but it’s well within normal tolerance.
Do you also remember he doesn't play during the weekends and does basically the minimum amount to survive as mafia? On December 11 2023 01:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 01:24 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2023 23:03 marvellosity wrote:
What I’m saying is his posting so far is pretty normal. He doesn’t have to be town of course but it’s well within normal tolerance.
Do you also remember he doesn't play during the weekends and does basically the minimum amount to survive as mafia? Is that supposed to change something? Idk, i would think Palmar would hide under "no play during weekends" esp since most of the players should know that, rather than post basically anything other than "it's weekend bye!" The stuff he said is also okay. It's not that i even think Vivax is mafia, probably opposite tbh, but his read on Palmar is based on wrong premises imo, if Palmar and sandroba would be both mafia, that would definitely not be something Palmar does in my opinion. Oh i also think DP and sandroba are not both mafia, now that i remember. Which I guess is somewhat accetable but it's still a really silly reason to base the read on that.
Think I'm more leaning on going on vivax atm though because he's playing way too normal and trfel is right that his post to sandroba is self-fulfilling. Not really sure, not that into the game atm. Marv looks ok, trfel looks good imo, DP is (?) but leaning on the side of ok. Slam is kinda just chilling so I don't really know what to read into that but I think he's had enough defenders in the thread over really mediocre points that game state might be pointing to him being town too. Vivax, Koshi, chez, sandro, meatbaby and palmar is a good list of LHF to get through for the time being. Maybe throw in a rayn in there but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Palmar and rayn probably the weakest in being in this list so will see what they get up to while I work throw the others. Keep what going? I haven’t addressed DP/Trfel at all?
Isn't that weird to any of you, usually marv would be the thread police, telling me I am dumb or scummy or calling us both town, but he just didn't get involved at all, does that seem like something town marv would do when he doesn;t like either of the players and was -particularly- engaged?
On December 11 2023 07:48 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 07:45 Alakaslam wrote:
Had it not already stoppedㅡ are tfel and dp this slow to make post? Can't be, as DP has been posting about ㅡnot thatㅡ since page 24 Still don’t understand, but I was catching up a bunch of pages and it was a lot of DP Trfel. Which I’ve still not talked about. So I still don’t know what’s going on tbh
It's a big red flag when marv keeps not knowing what is going on by the way, because.
1.) it speaks to his lack of engagement which is a big tell for him
and
2.) he does it as mafia to avoid committing to unwelcome positions.
On December 11 2023 07:52 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 07:49 Alakaslam wrote:On December 11 2023 07:48 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 07:45 Alakaslam wrote:
Had it not already stoppedㅡ are tfel and dp this slow to make post? Can't be, as DP has been posting about ㅡnot thatㅡ since page 24 Still don’t understand, but I was catching up a bunch of pages and it was a lot of DP Trfel. Which I’ve still not talked about. So I still don’t know what’s going on tbh Good point. That was directed more broadly too, But why didn't you mention Hijole it is not wifom even if a mistake Why didn’t I mention what? I can’t say I’m enjoying this exchange, I’m just getting confused :p
Again, can't overstate how much this bothers me, understating his comprehension when, as town, marv usually is explaining and interpreting things for others
On December 11 2023 17:37 marvellosity wrote:
Will happily murder Vivax with a pole. Although it seems a lot easier than sandro.
Let’s see as the day rolls on.
Marv just jumped on the Vivax lynch btw.
On December 11 2023 07:38 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 07:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
we will find out sandroda tomorrow, it is weird though that noone wanted to commit on voting on sandroba (if town). why not, easiest thing to come to say "he is scum" if he is town. Well. I think he is mafia still. Of course he dropped some posts that made sense and sounded smart. Because he is smart. ##vote sandroba
Despite, kind of randomly hopping on Sandro when rayn mentions the lack of a wagon.
Then not mentioning him or trying to convince anyone to lynch him for 12 hours.
On December 11 2023 18:00 marvellosity wrote:No 😘
Engagement low.
On December 11 2023 18:00 marvellosity wrote:
Oops. Post was still showing as written but not sent so I pressed post again.
Also fair warning, I have a chess match this evening so activity will be super patchy
IRL excuses. Another classic Marv red flag.
Now I don't doubt that marv is actually playing chess, but what I have noticed and believe to be true, is that marv will make excuses for his activity as mafia more than town, and I think it is because he has self awareness and inherent guilt about his engagement tells as mafia, as town, he is more engaged, and he isn't thinking of it, so he just doesn't inform us when and if he will be posting.
This basically was the nail in the coffin for me regarding marv's alignment at this point.
I even begged him to start fucking trying so I would not have to do this.
On December 11 2023 18:43 marvellosity wrote:
Actually I just happened to press refresh after my meeting, but okay.
Yawn to the rest, there is nothing wrong with my filter.
But he doesn't care. and there is a lot wrong with his filter.
Taking Q+A in the thread for the next couple hours, but I am pretty sure this is the right lynch today, and I don't think we need to keep giving him time, when his alignment is clear to read through his filter.
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I’m looking forward to this!
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You are so lucky 
I wanted to be lynched.
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Skimmed the whole thing. Only thing I want to say is re: Vivax.
The 6th post of my filter (p1 somewhere anyway) is asking Trfel about Vivax, and not far down the 2nd page I am calling Vivax out. This was yesterday.
Let’s not pretend I am suddenly randomly thinking Vivax is mafia out of nowhere, eh?
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On December 11 2023 20:15 Koshi wrote:You are so lucky I wanted to be lynched.
Yes but that’s stupid as either alignment, so stop it.
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On December 11 2023 20:16 marvellosity wrote:
Skimmed the whole thing. Only thing I want to say is re: Vivax.
The 6th post of my filter (p1 somewhere anyway) is asking Trfel about Vivax, and not far down the 2nd page I am calling Vivax out. This was yesterday.
Let’s not pretend I am suddenly randomly thinking Vivax is mafia out of nowhere, eh?
Except you are because you wanted to lynch Sandro, then did nothing to progress that, and then jumped on the band wagon.
This is distinct from for example, endures 1 where you were town, and you kept reminding and brining people back to your lynch of choice: MZ.
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🤣 I’m now a member of the DP fan club
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I think it’s a terrible case and parts of it make me suspicious - for example if I have a chess match, I will say so as either alignment, I have never lied about this sort of thing as either alignment. DP should know that.
I can’t really be arsed to try to attack DP for this (or other dumb bits) though as I’ll just get accused of omgus. You guys can draw your own conclusions.
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On December 11 2023 20:20 Palmar wrote:
🤣 I’m now a member of the DP fan club
Thought you might be 
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On December 11 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:
I think it’s a terrible case and parts of it make me suspicious - for example if I have a chess match, I will say so as either alignment, I have never lied about this sort of thing as either alignment. DP should know that.
I can’t really be arsed to try to attack DP for this (or other dumb bits) though as I’ll just get accused of omgus. You guys can draw your own conclusions.
Low energy response
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On December 11 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:
I think it’s a terrible case and parts of it make me suspicious - for example if I have a chess match, I will say so as either alignment, I have never lied about this sort of thing as either alignment. DP should know that.
I can’t really be arsed to try to attack DP for this (or other dumb bits) though as I’ll just get accused of omgus. You guys can draw your own conclusions.
He did say you wouldn't lie about it, just that you're much more likely to bring that up as mafia than town.
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On December 11 2023 20:22 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:
I think it’s a terrible case and parts of it make me suspicious - for example if I have a chess match, I will say so as either alignment, I have never lied about this sort of thing as either alignment. DP should know that.
I can’t really be arsed to try to attack DP for this (or other dumb bits) though as I’ll just get accused of omgus. You guys can draw your own conclusions. He did say you wouldn't lie about it, just that you're much more likely to bring that up as mafia than town.
Same difference. I don’t happen to have more chess matches as mafia. I will mention something that takes me away from the game at end of day cycle 100% of the time as either.
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On December 11 2023 20:22 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:
I think it’s a terrible case and parts of it make me suspicious - for example if I have a chess match, I will say so as either alignment, I have never lied about this sort of thing as either alignment. DP should know that.
I can’t really be arsed to try to attack DP for this (or other dumb bits) though as I’ll just get accused of omgus. You guys can draw your own conclusions. Low energy response
Yeah, that's not good.
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On December 11 2023 20:22 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:
I think it’s a terrible case and parts of it make me suspicious - for example if I have a chess match, I will say so as either alignment, I have never lied about this sort of thing as either alignment. DP should know that.
I can’t really be arsed to try to attack DP for this (or other dumb bits) though as I’ll just get accused of omgus. You guys can draw your own conclusions. Low energy response
What would you say?
I am suspicious of sandro and Vivax, the rest is just noise
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On December 11 2023 20:19 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 20:16 marvellosity wrote:
Skimmed the whole thing. Only thing I want to say is re: Vivax.
The 6th post of my filter (p1 somewhere anyway) is asking Trfel about Vivax, and not far down the 2nd page I am calling Vivax out. This was yesterday.
Let’s not pretend I am suddenly randomly thinking Vivax is mafia out of nowhere, eh? Except you are because you wanted to lynch Sandro, then did nothing to progress that, and then jumped on the band wagon. This is distinct from for example, endures 1 where you were town, and you kept reminding and brining people back to your lynch of choice: MZ.
Actually much more similar to day 2 where I was happy with a VE Lynch and just hopped on that bandwagon. Sometimes it’s just a normal thing to do.
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Agree with your case probably meaning something DP with the caveat that idk how new marv plays anymore because we're all old and have little involvement with the game to the same extent as we used to so not sure how old meta really applies here. Have you seen new marv be town?
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935
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378
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170
22072
1767
120
EPT
