Ok.
So this night I decided to shit up the thread and my reads a bit to kind of make it hard for scum to know my direction and to plan for their endgame NK.
Also trying to bait some reactions etc from people to discern their alignment.
I spent a lot of time thinking about the game, and why it was so hard to find mafia.
I then realised that there was one person who was cleared for a reason that actually was not valid.
TTTand his emotional congruence around quitting and not being engaged by the game.
At the start of each game I play with TTT I usually say to people that I know how to read him and I will read him correctly by the end of the game.
We have played a lot of mafia style games together and he usually has a couple of red flags that correlate to his mafia game.
1.) Lengthy discussions on side topics such as setup speculation that don't actually solve the game.
2.) Predilection to arguing at length small points that aren't actually relevant to solving the game or people's alignments.
I actually discussed the first tell with TTT in real life so he became aware of it, and I think he adjusted somewhat but I realised when I was filter diving him again after the Math flip that he has done it this game as well:
On September 04 2023 21:37 TankTopTiger wrote:
Jacob and DP can you give me examples of where else Jakey was setting traps? I didn't notice them.
I don't buy that him being like that was a trap. As if Scum DP would ever fall for that? Why would Jakey ever think that?
Re: The Lamp assumption
Is it really that cut and dry who was getting lynched? I haven't been late game as mafia, but to me it wasn't clear. DP and Marv are still in the game after all.
Re: My confidence level
I'm not 100%. My investment in this game is still not high enough to re-read or build cases myself. I'm open to other cases, I just haven't found anyone as compelling as JSL, who I think is resilient enough to soldier on when put in a hard spot as mafia.
At this point, I'm sort of just assuming we're lynching JSL and Math and if they not it then we lose :shrug:
Its really hard to describe, but basically TTT has been talking about the game without actually talking about the game in a way that is meaningful.
On September 05 2023 18:12 TankTopTiger wrote:
I don't think I've seen Jacob play as mafia, but my assumption would be that, like you and I, Jacob would try to play in a way that he thinks he can perform as either alignment. So I project from this assumption that Jacob himself thinks he could. Whether he actually can or not is a different matter, but out of all the high post-count styles, his, where he deliberately undermines his own conclusions constantly, is probably the easiest to duplicate as mafia. He never really has to stick by anything. If he fucks up, he can just say he wasn't thinking as town.
IMO it's less about the number of words, and more about the number of assertions with clear convictions.
Jacob, you said you don't enjoy playing as mafia the way you used to. If you used to enjoy it, surely you could shit out a ton of words while doing it?
He talks in the land of hypotheticals, at length here about what he could and could not see jake doing as mafia.
On September 05 2023 22:27 TankTopTiger wrote:
Errr... I don't know Marv but if I was in ScuMarv's position I would have bussed both those guys so fast sorry not sorry.
LS is extremely bussable (he seems to be developing a playstyle of dying and taking people with him). Koshi pushed the gun into his own damn mouth and forced town to pull the trigger. This isn't some 5D scum play it's the deterministic state of the game pushed into motion by forces beyond our remaining scummer's control.
Here again, he is not actually making meaning with these comments,
On September 06 2023 17:21 TankTopTiger wrote:
MMMMMaybe tomorrow or even the next day??? I'm not really sure why DP is asking for list posts during nightphase but it seems like a bad idea to me. In fact, I'm feeling a need to be tight-lipped in general.
On September 06 2023 17:27 TankTopTiger wrote:
Yeah Marv you too, but you come in late game after DP's vetted. You can see how it's a problem for me if I roll mafia and the only two people willing to not lynch me by default are the best readers who I don't want to keep around?
Also I genuinely hate the hierarchy in this game and yet somehow my playstyle has become 100% reliant on it. How is the proletariat supposed to rise up if it's funded entirely by the ultra-capitalist class?
On September 05 2023 18:46 TankTopTiger wrote:
That did occur to me, but I think it's fair to assume you have an idea about it without testing.
When I was a kid I enjoyed jumping off rooftops. I don't have to go and try it out to know I wouldn't now.
On September 01 2023 17:09 TankTopTiger wrote:
And Jakey no your style is to post quickly and without inhibition. You wouldn't post the way you do as town if you thought you couldn't replicate it as red. This is full BS.
On September 01 2023 17:33 TankTopTiger wrote:
I'm okay with Koshi lynch, I don't know them so I don't know how to interpret that action and trust you guys more.
From my limited perspective, he came in with a gimmick of wanting to hurrycurry to give himself more meta range. That doesn't work if he does it as red. But if you guys agree with each other it's more than that I'm down.
This post below is most important:
On September 06 2023 07:41 TankTopTiger wrote:
I've got a bigger range than you and DMB have put me on Viv. After the game I'd like you both to reconsider. The reads on me have been pretty bad and tiring from most.
- Being less productive is sign of scum, except I was last game as town.
- Being disengaged but coming back is sign of scum, except Math is scum for not coming back.
- Being abrasive makes me scum, except I'm always abrasive.
- Yeah but the abrasiveness isn't productive. Yeah no shit I'm not that engaged so this is just point 1 and the abrasiveness is irrelevant.
- Backing off Jakey is scummy because it means I'm scared except there's no reason for me to be scared.
I just looked back on my old games from back in the day. I was lynched as town at a phenomenal rate. The furthest I made it IIRC was D2 as town, and I only made it that far once in five games as town. These more recent games I've been under heavy fire a lot and it's only DP's protection that saved me. So all this stuff about my tell being whether or not I've been productive is actually bullshit, because I've been productive in exactly one game ever and in that one I was airdropped into D2.
Sorry a bit ranty and unproductively defensive (again, I don't have any reason to feel pressured rn) but I plan on quoting this post from now on because I'm just tired of the stale and shallow reads. The general population has empirically zero clue on how to read me and wants to lynch me by default. Immediate gut reads on me don't work as shown again and again.
He has not been playing the whole game because of openely stating he is not engaged and doesn't want to be here. I have read him as town despite this, due partly to the emotional congruence of his posts in isolation and the Dick move analysis of TTT using appeal to emotion to skate by as mafia.
He has basically played drastically differently to his town meta this game. Which makes this post make no fucking sense.
But the part that makes the least sense is:
On September 06 2023 07:41 TankTopTiger wrote:
I just looked back on my old games from back in the day. I was lynched as town at a phenomenal rate. The furthest I made it IIRC was D2 as town, and I only made it that far once in five games as town. These more recent games I've been under heavy fire a lot and it's only DP's protection that saved me.
Here his game stopes being emotionally congruent because looking back at all your old games does not track AT ALL with the story he has been telling of having no investment and just being here to be here.
This was bothering me so I decided to lay a trap of my own.
On September 06 2023 19:01 DarthPunk wrote:
I’m pretty sure I know who the last mafia is by the way.
Are you excited? 😊
On September 06 2023 19:55 TankTopTiger wrote:Yes if I agree with it
Bullshit, TTT has played up the depressed, disengaged angle all game, it is the ONLY reason he has not been lynched this game.
How is the congruent with being excited to see me solve the game?
It's not.
More:
He always is on the wrong side of the mafia lynches, there is weird as fuck hedging around the Koshi lynch
On September 01 2023 17:27 TankTopTiger wrote:
Re: Koshi
I'm more confident of my read on JSL and would prefer them to be lynched first, but Koshi would be next. I just feel like JSL doesn't require filtering, whereas I haven't really followed the case on Koshi and am mostly going off of the shift in tone from early to later (he was annoyingly chipper early on, but that has well and truly been stomped out of him), the desperate tone of his case on DP, along with the lack of substance I felt from said case given he pushed it out in five parts. It felt like he wanted to be able to say he'd written a five-part case, but the case didn't warrant that magnitude and by the end I was kind of confused why he wrote it in the first place.
So I want JSL over Koshi, I'm a lot more involved with it, but so long as they both go down I don't mind.
Koshi was clearly mafia at this point, and for someone who was repeatedly stating they were not invested, why does he seem so invested in lynching JSL over Koshi?
On September 01 2023 17:33 TankTopTiger wrote:
I'm okay with Koshi lynch, I don't know them so I don't know how to interpret that action and trust you guys more.
From my limited perspective, he came in with a gimmick of wanting to hurrycurry to give himself more meta range. That doesn't work if he does it as red. But if you guys agree with each other it's more than that I'm down.
Agree on Koshi? not really he is hedging and then undermine the read.
On September 01 2023 17:35 TankTopTiger wrote:
What do you think about my points on JSL?
It's very weird right?
Then try to move wagon onto his weak JSL read.
On September 01 2023 19:23 TankTopTiger wrote:
Okay boys I'm feeling it. We march on Koshi.
After Koshi, unless there's a drastic turn, I want JSL before anyone else. I'm not sure why DP is acting as if that hateful disrespect post from JSL was anything less than a signed confession, but it's going to take a lot for me to consider anyone above them.
Then after nothing changes aside from marv and I calling TTT town he swaps onto koshi, but koshi was dead regardless, and for someone who was literally talking to us about no investement, what exactly is he feeling here?
The emotional congruence is not there holistically across his posts.
MORE:
On September 04 2023 22:27 TankTopTiger wrote:
Whadya mean? I'm hoping to lynch JSL.
Don't overreact to that post. There are two people I want to lynch before you and that basically means I consider you town because we only got two lynches assuming no god medic or w/e. I was just answering the question.
NEXT POST 40 MIN LATER!
On September 04 2023 23:11 TankTopTiger wrote:
Re: Vivax
JSL called the scum team dumb for shooting DMB.
Jacob is basically the nicest goofiest person you will ever meet, so this was really off. Jacob claims it was a trap to get DP to get prickly if he was scum (as JSL would be calling him stupid).
TBH I've cooled it a lot on the read, and probably prefer Math first now. Jacob thinks I'm tunneling him but it's more like I'm wanting to get him to straighten out and make sense - which doesn't look like is going to happen.
This is someone who TTT wanted to lynch over KOSHI who claimed scum and self voted, and then:
On September 05 2023 07:41 TankTopTiger wrote:
Voting Math.
Do you rememeber how TTT was calling me wrong and bad for suspecting him at the start of the game?
On August 29 2023 12:03 TankTopTiger wrote:
Yo.
I'm taking some time off the game. I asked to be replaced but that's hella unlikely to happen. This game feels like a chore to me where I'm getting blasted every time I try to engage with it. I understand why,but that doesn't help me want to play.
I feel bad about this, but I think it's better than the alternative where I either pretend to be engaged or end up fighting people over stupid shit.
gl
Why does he understand why people are blasting him in the thread?? after he argued about it being wrong and bad for so long?
On August 31 2023 15:38 TankTopTiger wrote:
So IMO, lynch me, but don't play under the assumption I'm red with self-congratulatory connecto cases. When I flip, if I'm red, you can make all the connecto-cases you want.
What townies talks about himself flipping red after his lynch?
He also: reads LS as town, but kind of not, and reads Koshi as kind of weird and then doesn't really want to lynch him.
MORREEEE:
Why does LS town read him super early???
On August 27 2023 21:33 LightningStrike wrote:
Also side note TTT seemed more insightful this time around compared to Part 1 where he was mafia so likely town for the time being.
This read from LS was weird as fuck at the time and is weird as fuck now, if TTT is green, he was looking really bad, LS goes against the thread to make this read, and I can't see why he would.
Basically I am sure that TTT is the mafia we have been looking for, he has been under the Radar essentially because marv and I have shielded hiim based on his ATE.
But I think the reason his quitting rang true is probably because it was, he rolled mafia again, he was less engaged than when he plays town, its fucking hard to play mafia when you are being scum read.
I think he did want to quit and that's why that particularly felt genuine in his posts.
But I think the mistake we made was assuming that he could only feel that way genuinely as town. Because he clearly in his quitting post understood why people scum read him.
Bonus material:
Rayn wanted him dead!
Rayn NK
DMB WANTED HIM DEAD!
DMB NK
Marv and DP are shielding him from Vivax and JSL, Marv and DP alive.
this is about as confident as I could ever be in a read,
if you trust me to read TTT and clear him as Town, please for the love of god trust me to read him as Mafia.
This dude is 100percent fucking mafia, COAG seal of approval 100% moneyback guarentee.
I fucked up by hitting post instead of preview which sucks, but, oh well.
GL if I die.
EPT
