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[N]A Mostly Normal Game of Mafia - Page 9

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 02:00 GMT
#1111
Yeah, I wish I had a better reason to say raynpelikoneet was town. As in, I wish he was a role or something so it was confirmed. I am reading him town as well as I can read him, but there's always the chance he's just playing a ridiculous game.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 02:01 GMT
#1112
On December 01 2020 11:00 Tictock wrote:
Mafia can no shoot so we cannot use JK to confirm someone as mafia.

I don't see a problem with JK confirming someone as town though if a kill does go through.
This is technically correct, but as Hapahauli was saying, if mafia chooses to no-kill, then town gains an extra mislynch. So it's the same result in the end.

Unless you're saying mafia is allowed to store up their shots and use them all at once, but that's a really stupid mechanic that I've never actually seen in a game.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 03:47 GMT
#1117
Fecalfeast?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 03:48 GMT
#1118
Actually... it's majority lynch. Ideally we would have five votes on the same target or mafia could force a no-lynch...

Hopefully raynpelikoneet comes back? If not the right play is to switch back to Hapahauli, right?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 04:03 GMT
#1121
On December 01 2020 12:53 Hapahauli wrote:
FF or Rayn need to vote Vivax. Given that FF has expressed his sense of a Vivax/TT scumteam, I'm not worried about him coming back and consolidating.

Even if Rayn doesn't come back, TT unvoting Vivax to create a no-lynch (when he supposedly has no preference between a Hapa/Vivax lynch) is a straight scum-claim and should get him instantly policy lynched next day. Also remember that a no-lynch does not lose town the game here, which would make such a switch pretty stupid from a scum-TT perspective.
Right, I forgot about that. Thanks, that makes sense.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 04:10 GMT
#1123
On December 01 2020 13:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I just arrived at work, i am going to explain why after i grt home
Sounds good, I'll (probably) be there.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 05:23 GMT
#1131
On December 01 2020 13:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2020 13:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Sigh.

Let me start by saying this:

Hapa is saying we should definitely lynch into TT/Vivax because if we hit mafia there the game is practically solved.

This is obviously smart from mafia perspective because he then isnt lynched and town can still make the wrong decision with TT/Vivax.

From town perspective though; Lets say we lynch Vivax and he flips mafia. Trfel jails Hapa (or whoever) and the NK goes through. How is the game solved?
Did Hapahauli ever say this? I thought he was advocating lynching Tictock or Vivax because he thinks they are mafia and he is town (presumably) so that would be a superior lynch?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 05:51 GMT
#1146
On December 01 2020 08:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Let's make a deal TT.

I think Vivax is mafia. You think Vivax is mafia.

Let's kill Vivax. After that, since we both think that Trfel is the JK, he can simply block me tomorrow and "confirm me as mafia". Sounds good?

Game solved and over from your perspective. No need to argue or do anything.
@raynpelikoneet, you are referring to this discussion, right?

I don't think Hapahauli was trying to argue that we should kill between Vivax/Tictock first instead of him because it's somehow superior. Rather, the point Hapahauli is trying to make here is that Tictock is suspicious because by his own logic, he should be fine lynching Vivax. Hapahauli was trying to see if Tictock would go along with that and vote for Vivax, or if he would hesitate. I read it as more of an experiment.

Like I get that he could do this as mafia. It's mafia motivated to move votes off of oneself. But why wouldn't Hapahauli do this as town?

If you're referring to a different discussion, the above is all moot. In that case if you could please point me to it? Because I (quickly) read the thread from Hapahauli's claim until this point and didn't find what you are referring to.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 05:55 GMT
#1147
On December 01 2020 14:48 Tictock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2020 14:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Its okay, lets hear why i am mafia with Vivax.


I am not getting into that, just saying Vivax should be the lynch here.
Can I ask why it's better to lynch Vivax than Hapahauli? I thought you were scumreading both equally?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 06:16 GMT
#1153
On December 01 2020 15:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2020 14:51 Trfel wrote:
On December 01 2020 08:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Let's make a deal TT.

I think Vivax is mafia. You think Vivax is mafia.

Let's kill Vivax. After that, since we both think that Trfel is the JK, he can simply block me tomorrow and "confirm me as mafia". Sounds good?

Game solved and over from your perspective. No need to argue or do anything.
@raynpelikoneet, you are referring to this discussion, right?

I don't think Hapahauli was trying to argue that we should kill between Vivax/Tictock first instead of him because it's somehow superior. Rather, the point Hapahauli is trying to make here is that Tictock is suspicious because by his own logic, he should be fine lynching Vivax. Hapahauli was trying to see if Tictock would go along with that and vote for Vivax, or if he would hesitate. I read it as more of an experiment.

Like I get that he could do this as mafia. It's mafia motivated to move votes off of oneself. But why wouldn't Hapahauli do this as town?

If you're referring to a different discussion, the above is all moot. In that case if you could please point me to it? Because I (quickly) read the thread from Hapahauli's claim until this point and didn't find what you are referring to.

Yes i understand towards TT it can be this. Towards you though it doesnt follow the same logic.

If his experiment went well and TT came off as scummy why is he not voting for TT then? I know TT is voting for Vivax here but still, he was very hesitant at first.
Okay, yeah I get why that logic wouldn't work for me. I don't think he ever used that logic towards me though? I don't recall it at all.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 06:19 GMT
#1154
Sorry, I should add, as to the second part, that's a fair point. He'd say that he's similarly confident in Vivax and Tictock and that the point made by the experiment is about association between the two, anyway. Which makes decent sense to me?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 07:06 GMT
#1159
Point by point, paragraph by paragraph.

1. He gets to use the role if he gets shot Night 1, unless mafia roleblocked him as well as killed him (which would literally only be beneficial against the Mad Hatter and Vigilante I believe). I would expect mafia to roleblock someone other than their kill target. As far as the logic for not running for mayor to be able to use his role, that's an interesting point, I guess it would depend on whether he values the protection more or the potential Mad Hatter shot more. Hapahauli saying he would likely run for mayor if there wasn't a good mayoral candidate makes sense to me, if someone else was towny and had utility later then they could be mayor and get the best of both worlds. Whether I qualify as worth giving a bodyguard, that's certainly up for debate. The point has some merit, but I'm unsure how much.

2. Could be missing something but I thought those statements happened in the other order? Where Hapahauli first said Jockmcplop could be mafia because he doesn't remember anything he posted, and then (presumably) looked at it and found other reasons to scumread him.

3. Gosh, I feel bad, but I'm not seeing this one at all Looked through both Hapahauli's and Tictock's filters. I'm so blind

4. I have absolutely no idea. This is an extremely compelling point.

5. I thought that lynching someone for three blues being too much is valid, isn't this what we were talking about yesterday? It's at least worth considering. As for the appeal to emotion itself, I guess I wasn't under the impression that it was a scumtell? I do feel like those statements were somewhat suspect though.

6. Supposedly Hapahauli only had a few minutes to skim the thread, I assume he would say he didn't have the time to actually read your Fecalfeast case earlier. Bleh.

I'm gonna start winding down and going to bed (it's late here), but I'll decide tomorrow. I'm actually horrid at making decisions though, so it would be great if you and Fecalfeast could agree so I can just do that. Currently I'd still prefer not lynching Hapahauli, but I have some things to think about, some questions to get answered, and I'm really not very certain, I wouldn't be surprised if Hapahauli is mafia here. This is the part of mafia games I don't like, where I have to make a decision
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 07:08 GMT
#1160
To add: if you still feel this way by the deadline I guess I'd likely go along with it, even if I disagree. But I'd prefer if it would be possible for us (including Fecalfeast) to somehow work through things and agree.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 07:57 GMT
#1161
I find it very unlikely that Hapahauli would be mafia with Vivax. That doesn't line up with their play today (double bus with Vivax being lazy) and doesn't line up with Hapahauli's push on Vivax Day 2.

So if Hapahauli is mafia, it's with raynpelikoneet or Tictock. If it's raynpelikoneet, they'd be going through a lot of theatrics when they could just get a mislynch and collect the win pretty easily. So I don't really believe that either.

Leaves Hapahauli and Tictock. This is a much more believable combination.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 18:01 GMT
#1315
You guys are posting so quickly I admit I had to skim the last 2 pages or I would never have caught up. Sorry for being away for so long, sleepy Trfel was sleepy.
On December 01 2020 19:44 Tictock wrote:
How in the hell do you think I am mafia with Hapa after today? Rayn/Hapa makes no sense either with Rayn literally not wanting to lynch anyone by Hapa all day.
Why can't you be mafia with Hapahauli? And, come to think of it, you really think that Hapahauli and Vivax are mafia together, with how they've pushed each other? But I suppose raynpelikoneet disagrees. And his reasoning makes sense. But I'd like to hear yours?
On December 01 2020 21:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Trfel, you need to stop being convinced by the last person you speak to.
Yeah, I know
On December 02 2020 00:57 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2020 10:47 Fecalfeast wrote:
basically if I believe hapa is town which honestly I do from all this posting and I don't believe trfel is fake JK then it has to be vivax tt and that's kinda nice so I could switch to vivax


If you bother to compare his earlier days posting (sizeable and sparse) with today's posting (fast reactive) do you not reach the conclusion that he changed his posting style to survive?

It just seems logical to me that mafia would squeeze through a last effort here. And I don't think that Hapa switching from aforementioned posting style to one-liner spam should make him town. He fell out of character, so to say.
What? Not wanting to get lynched in MYLO makes someone mafia?

I've got to take another look at the P61 thing and Hapahauli's explanation.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 18:11 GMT
#1333
On December 02 2020 03:07 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2020 03:01 Trfel wrote:
You guys are posting so quickly I admit I had to skim the last 2 pages or I would never have caught up. Sorry for being away for so long, sleepy Trfel was sleepy.
On December 01 2020 19:44 Tictock wrote:
How in the hell do you think I am mafia with Hapa after today? Rayn/Hapa makes no sense either with Rayn literally not wanting to lynch anyone by Hapa all day.
Why can't you be mafia with Hapahauli? And, come to think of it, you really think that Hapahauli and Vivax are mafia together, with how they've pushed each other? But I suppose raynpelikoneet disagrees. And his reasoning makes sense. But I'd like to hear yours?
On December 01 2020 21:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Trfel, you need to stop being convinced by the last person you speak to.
Yeah, I know
On December 02 2020 00:57 Vivax wrote:
On December 01 2020 10:47 Fecalfeast wrote:
basically if I believe hapa is town which honestly I do from all this posting and I don't believe trfel is fake JK then it has to be vivax tt and that's kinda nice so I could switch to vivax


If you bother to compare his earlier days posting (sizeable and sparse) with today's posting (fast reactive) do you not reach the conclusion that he changed his posting style to survive?

It just seems logical to me that mafia would squeeze through a last effort here. And I don't think that Hapa switching from aforementioned posting style to one-liner spam should make him town. He fell out of character, so to say.
What? Not wanting to get lynched in MYLO makes someone mafia?

I've got to take another look at the P61 thing and Hapahauli's explanation.


Who doesn't want to not get lynched at MYLO? That doesn't mean that as town you start spamming after pretending to favour a more condensed style. What Hapa and rayn are doing is clearly disruptive.

I don't see the need to start swearing and spamming, burying more informative posts in the process, and with only two mafia in the thread most likely. The outcome is still undecided and if you and FF (and TT maybe) won't change your mind then fine. I just wish you luck picking the target at night because you will decide the game.
Again, I've never seen Hapahauli play as scum (okay that's kind of a lie, I did try and read one of his games last night, good old 7 years old meta...) but I'd say this is definitely within raynpelikoneet's town range, no? Even if it isn't the most "productive" thing to be doing.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 18:12 GMT
#1335
@Hapahauli, you literally never read raynpelikoneet's case on Fecalfeast?

I can understand missing it in the brief skim, but I thought you would have seen it in the deep read to catch up at least? Or did you skip Day 2 in that read? I'm confused/suspicious here.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 18:19 GMT
#1340
On December 02 2020 03:17 Hapahauli wrote:
I don't know why it is that hard for anyone to understand a) why someone can be pissed off when they get tunneled by Rayn, and then b) why that would encourage that person to make raging/irrational posts.
No I get that, I just wanted to check if the explanation had an inconsistency. That makes more sense for me, now I'll check to make sure it's consistent or not.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 18:24 GMT
#1348
On December 02 2020 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
who wants to lynch TT?
Likely down.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 01 2020 18:54 GMT
#1368
@raynpelikoneet, you're saying that in one post Vivax said he's still open to the possibility of Tictock being mafia, and in another post, he said that the only possible explanation was that you (raynpelikoneet) and Hapahauli are mafia together putting on a show, right?
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