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@Vivax, on Chezinu, I have no answer. We can discuss it tomorrow. But we are not lynching him today, promise?
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On May 06 2020 16:16 Trfel wrote:
@Vivax, on Chezinu, I have no answer. We can discuss it tomorrow. But we are not lynching him today, promise?
Usually I'd say depends, but looking at Jock's reads I'm feeling pretty good about my vote. I'm confident about my ability to read you and Koshi.
Still going to point this stuff out for posterity. Esp. GBs emotionality, Slam being an instant sucker for it, and Chez sentiment based voting, if I had to sum up what I think sticks out.
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Also, GlowingBear, I was reading the Holy Guardians Ch. 2 Endgame again and saw the analysis QT you posted. No idea how I missed it before. But thanks for doing that, I really appreciate it! I know it's a time-consuming task, even for a short game like that one 
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On May 06 2020 16:22 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2020 16:16 Trfel wrote:
@Vivax, on Chezinu, I have no answer. We can discuss it tomorrow. But we are not lynching him today, promise? Usually I'd say depends, but looking at Jock's reads I'm feeling pretty good about my vote. I'm confident about my ability to read you and Koshi. Still going to point this stuff out for posterity. Esp. GBs emotionality, Slam being an instant sucker for it, and Chez sentiment based voting, if I had to sum up what I think sticks out. Makes sense. I have a feeling that scum are going to make a final push to save Jockmcplop in the last hour of the day (when I can't be here). That's my main worry at this point.
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On May 02 2020 15:50 Trfel wrote:This is the world I'm living in currently. It's not a fun place to be. Town Maybe Town?Vivax Koshi raynpelikoneet Super Weak TownreadShoCkeyy Grackaroni Alakaslam Jockmcplop Mafia?Chezinu GlowingBear? Mafia
On May 02 2020 23:17 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2020 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 02 2020 17:01 Trfel wrote:
Fine. I'll make a phone case. No pretty quotes or links, so you'll have to read GlowingBear's filter too.
GlowingBear
1. Scumread Koshi for misconstruing GlowingBear's play. However, note the timing, he scumread Koshi well after this all started. Despite GlowingBear not having a townread on Koshi, he got mad at Koshi and treated Koshi like town and never questioned that he could be mafia until much later, when raynpelikoneet asks him about Koshi. This doesn't feel natural at all. Town tend to be quick to call their accusers scum, especially when they feel misrepresented and ignored and all the things GlowingBear was saying.
2. Shifting reads. His scumreads shift in priority in a way that doesn't make sense. First he says Jockmcplop is mafia, and Alakaslam second. Then he says Jockmcplop and Koshi are mafia, and raynpelikoneet or Alakaslam. Then he was making a case on raynpelikoneet to defend himself (huh?). Then most recently raynpelikoneet as top mafia. It doesn't feel like he is putting much thought into his scumreads.
3. Evaluates my post on Koshi at face value. While this is objectively good, I don't see this coming from town who strongly scumreads Koshi and cares about his alignment. GlowingBear's thoughts are correct, and that's the issue here. GlowingBear doesn't use it as an opportunity to convince me to vote for Koshi or anything. Not that he should lie, or ignore my points being weak, but he could have directed me to stronger reasons to scumread Koshi. Or pointed out the strength of my remaining point instead of merely saying it was the strongest point I provided. Feels like he is just sharing his thoughts instead of actually caring about people's alignments.
Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I know it's a lot of words. There are a few other points I could make, but I figured I would just bring up these things now.
##vote GlowingBear RE: point 3, how does my analysis of your koshi post effect your read on me? Honestly it doesn't really, especially since GlowingBear said the same thing first.
On May 03 2020 06:56 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 06:41 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 06:19 Trfel wrote:On May 03 2020 05:41 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 05:37 Trfel wrote:I take it people were very underwhelmed by my post on GlowingBear Hard to think of something I'm not underwhelmed from. Which people btw. ##Vote rayn Just no one commented on it. Maybe I need to rewrite it. Voting raynpelikoneet if he doesn't play makes sense? Except for a lot of people aren't playing currently Yeah I'm sorry if I don't pay too much attention to your case right now. I'm also kinda triggered that today to me feels like a circlejerk between you and me. But if vets I'm used to like Koshi and rayn basically put 1% of the effort they did on D1, coupled with the FF kill, then odds are at least one of them is mafia. And I'm putting my money on rayn, also because of his voting shenanigans yesterday. Hm, that makes sense, fair enough. I'll keep my vote on GlowingBear for now (I'm most confident he is mafia) but I guess I could vote for raynpelikoneet if things keep going this way. Also, sorry Jockmcplop, realized I forgot to respond to you. I am sorry for being incorrect. For some reason I'm having trouble finding the posts in your filter. I take it the reason you ask is because you're scumreading Koshi too, so the same logic that it looks suspicious for GlowingBear should look suspicious for you too. That makes sense but I don't think it really applies to this case, since this is more of an emotional point. GlowingBear should be much more emotionally invested in his scumread of Koshi if he is town, and I would expect that to come out much more in his play.
On May 04 2020 02:59 Trfel wrote:The other thing is, Jockmcplop seemed like a decent lynch when I reread his filter. He hasn't really been pushing his own ideas, most of his posts are just commentary on other people's posts. It feels like he is "thread police," posting about the validity of other people's ideas, not making his own. And that scares me a lot. I don't know For now I think the difference is I don't want to vote with GlowingBear. ##unvote
##vote Jockmcplop
Here's trfel on day 2.
He has me as a slight townread.
Then i question why he is scumreading GB for something that I also did, but not scumreading me for it. Seems like a strange inconsistency. Next thing I know, trfel has me as his top scumread and I haven't moved from there since.
Look at the third quote here, he clearly wants to kill GB and still has a weak townread on me.
There was no reason he switched from wanting to kill GB to wanting to kill me. GB was his main target. The only reason for the switch to me was that they decided to kill rayn and get everyone to vote me afterwards.
Its not a tunnel, its a plan. Just look at the progression. It makes no sense.
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Long story short, I reread your filter and changed my mind. Your filter is quite persuasive 
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Jockmcplop, I'm sorry if I'm being a jerk. The smiley was meant as a joke, to tease you, not insult you.
I am terribly sorry if I am somehow wrong. It's just the way I see the game right now, I don't think I am. And as Day 3 has progressed, it only fits my view more and more.
I'll try to back off a bit and let you do your thing, feel free to ask me anything though and I will try to politely discuss. You have a vote to support with reasons, after all.
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On May 06 2020 16:31 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2020 15:50 Trfel wrote:This is the world I'm living in currently. It's not a fun place to be. TownMaybe Town?Vivax Koshi raynpelikoneet Super Weak TownreadShoCkeyy Grackaroni Alakaslam Jockmcplop Mafia?Chezinu GlowingBear? Mafia Show nested quote +On May 02 2020 23:17 Trfel wrote:On May 02 2020 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 02 2020 17:01 Trfel wrote:
Fine. I'll make a phone case. No pretty quotes or links, so you'll have to read GlowingBear's filter too.
GlowingBear
1. Scumread Koshi for misconstruing GlowingBear's play. However, note the timing, he scumread Koshi well after this all started. Despite GlowingBear not having a townread on Koshi, he got mad at Koshi and treated Koshi like town and never questioned that he could be mafia until much later, when raynpelikoneet asks him about Koshi. This doesn't feel natural at all. Town tend to be quick to call their accusers scum, especially when they feel misrepresented and ignored and all the things GlowingBear was saying.
2. Shifting reads. His scumreads shift in priority in a way that doesn't make sense. First he says Jockmcplop is mafia, and Alakaslam second. Then he says Jockmcplop and Koshi are mafia, and raynpelikoneet or Alakaslam. Then he was making a case on raynpelikoneet to defend himself (huh?). Then most recently raynpelikoneet as top mafia. It doesn't feel like he is putting much thought into his scumreads.
3. Evaluates my post on Koshi at face value. While this is objectively good, I don't see this coming from town who strongly scumreads Koshi and cares about his alignment. GlowingBear's thoughts are correct, and that's the issue here. GlowingBear doesn't use it as an opportunity to convince me to vote for Koshi or anything. Not that he should lie, or ignore my points being weak, but he could have directed me to stronger reasons to scumread Koshi. Or pointed out the strength of my remaining point instead of merely saying it was the strongest point I provided. Feels like he is just sharing his thoughts instead of actually caring about people's alignments.
Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I know it's a lot of words. There are a few other points I could make, but I figured I would just bring up these things now.
##vote GlowingBear RE: point 3, how does my analysis of your koshi post effect your read on me? Honestly it doesn't really, especially since GlowingBear said the same thing first. Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 06:56 Trfel wrote:On May 03 2020 06:41 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 06:19 Trfel wrote:On May 03 2020 05:41 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 05:37 Trfel wrote:I take it people were very underwhelmed by my post on GlowingBear Hard to think of something I'm not underwhelmed from. Which people btw. ##Vote rayn Just no one commented on it. Maybe I need to rewrite it. Voting raynpelikoneet if he doesn't play makes sense? Except for a lot of people aren't playing currently Yeah I'm sorry if I don't pay too much attention to your case right now. I'm also kinda triggered that today to me feels like a circlejerk between you and me. But if vets I'm used to like Koshi and rayn basically put 1% of the effort they did on D1, coupled with the FF kill, then odds are at least one of them is mafia. And I'm putting my money on rayn, also because of his voting shenanigans yesterday. Hm, that makes sense, fair enough. I'll keep my vote on GlowingBear for now (I'm most confident he is mafia) but I guess I could vote for raynpelikoneet if things keep going this way. Also, sorry Jockmcplop, realized I forgot to respond to you. I am sorry for being incorrect. For some reason I'm having trouble finding the posts in your filter. I take it the reason you ask is because you're scumreading Koshi too, so the same logic that it looks suspicious for GlowingBear should look suspicious for you too. That makes sense but I don't think it really applies to this case, since this is more of an emotional point. GlowingBear should be much more emotionally invested in his scumread of Koshi if he is town, and I would expect that to come out much more in his play. Show nested quote +On May 04 2020 02:59 Trfel wrote:The other thing is, Jockmcplop seemed like a decent lynch when I reread his filter. He hasn't really been pushing his own ideas, most of his posts are just commentary on other people's posts. It feels like he is "thread police," posting about the validity of other people's ideas, not making his own. And that scares me a lot. I don't know For now I think the difference is I don't want to vote with GlowingBear. ##unvote
##vote Jockmcplop Here's trfel on day 2. He has me as a slight townread. Then i question why he is scumreading GB for something that I also did, but not scumreading me for it. Seems like a strange inconsistency. Next thing I know, trfel has me as his top scumread and I haven't moved from there since. Look at the third quote here, he clearly wants to kill GB and still has a weak townread on me. There was no reason he switched from wanting to kill GB to wanting to kill me. GB was his main target. The only reason for the switch to me was that they decided to kill rayn and get everyone to vote me afterwards. Its not a tunnel, its a plan. Just look at the progression. It makes no sense.
Sorry Jock, but I don't believe you'd actually believe Trfel is mafia here because of a few gaps in his reads transitions.
You could open up any townie filter, including mine, and you'd see me wanting to lynch someone more one day and then another the day after for a bazillion of possible reasons that don't mean someone is mafia.
It really only makes sense to think what you're thinking if GB + Trfel are mafia. Then Trfel would have a reason to put GB on the backburner today and to have a clear preference to lynch you instead.
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On May 06 2020 16:40 Trfel wrote:
Jockmcplop, I'm sorry if I'm being a jerk. The smiley was meant as a joke, to tease you, not insult you.
I am terribly sorry if I am somehow wrong. It's just the way I see the game right now, I don't think I am. And as Day 3 has progressed, it only fits my view more and more.
I'll try to back off a bit and let you do your thing, feel free to ask me anything though and I will try to politely discuss. You have a vote to support with reasons, after all.
I'm not offended trfel you are doing what you have to do!
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On May 06 2020 16:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2020 16:31 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 02 2020 15:50 Trfel wrote:This is the world I'm living in currently. It's not a fun place to be. TownMaybe Town?Vivax Koshi raynpelikoneet Super Weak TownreadShoCkeyy Grackaroni Alakaslam Jockmcplop Mafia?Chezinu GlowingBear? Mafia On May 02 2020 23:17 Trfel wrote:On May 02 2020 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 02 2020 17:01 Trfel wrote:
Fine. I'll make a phone case. No pretty quotes or links, so you'll have to read GlowingBear's filter too.
GlowingBear
1. Scumread Koshi for misconstruing GlowingBear's play. However, note the timing, he scumread Koshi well after this all started. Despite GlowingBear not having a townread on Koshi, he got mad at Koshi and treated Koshi like town and never questioned that he could be mafia until much later, when raynpelikoneet asks him about Koshi. This doesn't feel natural at all. Town tend to be quick to call their accusers scum, especially when they feel misrepresented and ignored and all the things GlowingBear was saying.
2. Shifting reads. His scumreads shift in priority in a way that doesn't make sense. First he says Jockmcplop is mafia, and Alakaslam second. Then he says Jockmcplop and Koshi are mafia, and raynpelikoneet or Alakaslam. Then he was making a case on raynpelikoneet to defend himself (huh?). Then most recently raynpelikoneet as top mafia. It doesn't feel like he is putting much thought into his scumreads.
3. Evaluates my post on Koshi at face value. While this is objectively good, I don't see this coming from town who strongly scumreads Koshi and cares about his alignment. GlowingBear's thoughts are correct, and that's the issue here. GlowingBear doesn't use it as an opportunity to convince me to vote for Koshi or anything. Not that he should lie, or ignore my points being weak, but he could have directed me to stronger reasons to scumread Koshi. Or pointed out the strength of my remaining point instead of merely saying it was the strongest point I provided. Feels like he is just sharing his thoughts instead of actually caring about people's alignments.
Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I know it's a lot of words. There are a few other points I could make, but I figured I would just bring up these things now.
##vote GlowingBear RE: point 3, how does my analysis of your koshi post effect your read on me? Honestly it doesn't really, especially since GlowingBear said the same thing first. On May 03 2020 06:56 Trfel wrote:On May 03 2020 06:41 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 06:19 Trfel wrote:On May 03 2020 05:41 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 05:37 Trfel wrote:I take it people were very underwhelmed by my post on GlowingBear Hard to think of something I'm not underwhelmed from. Which people btw. ##Vote rayn Just no one commented on it. Maybe I need to rewrite it. Voting raynpelikoneet if he doesn't play makes sense? Except for a lot of people aren't playing currently Yeah I'm sorry if I don't pay too much attention to your case right now. I'm also kinda triggered that today to me feels like a circlejerk between you and me. But if vets I'm used to like Koshi and rayn basically put 1% of the effort they did on D1, coupled with the FF kill, then odds are at least one of them is mafia. And I'm putting my money on rayn, also because of his voting shenanigans yesterday. Hm, that makes sense, fair enough. I'll keep my vote on GlowingBear for now (I'm most confident he is mafia) but I guess I could vote for raynpelikoneet if things keep going this way. Also, sorry Jockmcplop, realized I forgot to respond to you. I am sorry for being incorrect. For some reason I'm having trouble finding the posts in your filter. I take it the reason you ask is because you're scumreading Koshi too, so the same logic that it looks suspicious for GlowingBear should look suspicious for you too. That makes sense but I don't think it really applies to this case, since this is more of an emotional point. GlowingBear should be much more emotionally invested in his scumread of Koshi if he is town, and I would expect that to come out much more in his play. On May 04 2020 02:59 Trfel wrote:The other thing is, Jockmcplop seemed like a decent lynch when I reread his filter. He hasn't really been pushing his own ideas, most of his posts are just commentary on other people's posts. It feels like he is "thread police," posting about the validity of other people's ideas, not making his own. And that scares me a lot. I don't know For now I think the difference is I don't want to vote with GlowingBear. ##unvote
##vote Jockmcplop Here's trfel on day 2. He has me as a slight townread. Then i question why he is scumreading GB for something that I also did, but not scumreading me for it. Seems like a strange inconsistency. Next thing I know, trfel has me as his top scumread and I haven't moved from there since. Look at the third quote here, he clearly wants to kill GB and still has a weak townread on me. There was no reason he switched from wanting to kill GB to wanting to kill me. GB was his main target. The only reason for the switch to me was that they decided to kill rayn and get everyone to vote me afterwards. Its not a tunnel, its a plan. Just look at the progression. It makes no sense. Sorry Jock, but I don't believe you'd actually believe Trfel is mafia here because of a few gaps in his reads transitions. You could open up any townie filter, including mine, and you'd see me wanting to lynch someone more one day and then another the day after for a bazillion of possible reasons that don't mean someone is mafia. It really only makes sense to think what you're thinking if GB + Trfel are mafia. Then Trfel would have a reason to put GB on the backburner today and to have a clear preference to lynch you instead.
Arguing with mafia about why they are mafia isn't really where i wanted to be at this morning tbh.
It makes sense because i'm considering what it is that mafia is trying to do, and how, why and when they are trying to do it. Trfel here just fits perfectly. The kill on rayn leads to my mislynch, there's a direct line between the two. Sometime on day trfel suddenly goes from a weak townread on me to a hard scumread and then rayn dies and here we are.
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I just wish we had one more mislynch and people could read dead jock tomorrow. I feel under pressure tbh and I hate having to defend myself over and over again.
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On May 06 2020 16:43 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2020 16:40 Trfel wrote:
Jockmcplop, I'm sorry if I'm being a jerk. The smiley was meant as a joke, to tease you, not insult you.
I am terribly sorry if I am somehow wrong. It's just the way I see the game right now, I don't think I am. And as Day 3 has progressed, it only fits my view more and more.
I'll try to back off a bit and let you do your thing, feel free to ask me anything though and I will try to politely discuss. You have a vote to support with reasons, after all. I'm not offended trfel you are doing what you have to do! Thanks for understanding
I will likely fall asleep sometime soon, so if I stop responding that is why.
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So Jock maybe you can explain to me why Chez decided to vote for you together with his entire delegation of scumreads.
Because that's the only guy I'd lynch over you.
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The way I see it you're telling me my two top town are my teammates and that doesn't fly to well, that goes without saying.
I also don't think you'd believe rayn to have been wrong about everything before getting shot.
At the very least you should have a mild suspicion of Slam, or some slamdunk (no pun intended) argument for him being town.
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On May 06 2020 16:52 Vivax wrote:
So Jock maybe you can explain to me why Chez decided to vote for you together with his entire delegation of scumreads.
Because that's the only guy I'd lynch over you.
I can't explain anything chez does. Either he's scum, and i'm totally wrong about my other scumreads, and that's why he voted for me, or he's town and doing something i don't understand. It doesn't make much sense i agree.
If I wasn't so sure on trfel and you being scum i would totally lynch chez here but the three of you as a scum team just doesn't work. If chez is scum i literally have no idea who the other scum are. Slam maybe. I can't really see it though.
So you think chez and I are scum, who do you think the third scum is?
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On May 06 2020 17:00 Vivax wrote:
The way I see it you're telling me my two top town are my teammates and that doesn't fly to well, that goes without saying.
I also don't think you'd believe rayn to have been wrong about everything before getting shot.
At the very least you should have a mild suspicion of Slam, or some slamdunk (no pun intended) argument for him being town.
I already made my argument for slam being scum. I went and looked at every single scum game in his filter. It took me absolutely ages tbh, but I didn't make a big quote wall or anything so it probably got ignored. He just doesn't take things personally in his scum games and doesn't get stressed out like he is here by people scumreading him. Look at what he's saying and think the opposite. When he says he doesn't care what people think its a dead giveaway that he does. But as mafia his posting is the opposite, its chill and fun, exciteable even.
Go look at his previous mafia games. You should be able to see the difference.
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EBWOP
in his filter means
*in the tl archive.
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other edit:
For Slam being town not scum
morning posting :/
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On May 06 2020 17:01 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2020 16:52 Vivax wrote:
So Jock maybe you can explain to me why Chez decided to vote for you together with his entire delegation of scumreads.
Because that's the only guy I'd lynch over you. I can't explain anything chez does. Either he's scum, and i'm totally wrong about my other scumreads, and that's why he voted for me, or he's town and doing something i don't understand. It doesn't make much sense i agree. If I wasn't so sure on trfel and you being scum i would totally lynch chez here but the three of you as a scum team just doesn't work. If chez is scum i literally have no idea who the other scum are. Slam maybe. I can't really see it though. So you think chez and I are scum, who do you think the third scum is?
Gubgub or slam. Don't really feel like it's something I have to think about today.
Unless you are town that is, but then your job is to convince me, maybe others why one of those is mafia. We lose otherwise.
The way I'm looking at it you're essentially self-destructing with weird hipster reads and I don't take any responsibility at all if you get mislynched.
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On May 06 2020 17:08 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2020 17:01 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 06 2020 16:52 Vivax wrote:
So Jock maybe you can explain to me why Chez decided to vote for you together with his entire delegation of scumreads.
Because that's the only guy I'd lynch over you. I can't explain anything chez does. Either he's scum, and i'm totally wrong about my other scumreads, and that's why he voted for me, or he's town and doing something i don't understand. It doesn't make much sense i agree. If I wasn't so sure on trfel and you being scum i would totally lynch chez here but the three of you as a scum team just doesn't work. If chez is scum i literally have no idea who the other scum are. Slam maybe. I can't really see it though. So you think chez and I are scum, who do you think the third scum is? Gubgub or slam. Don't really feel like it's something I have to think about today. Unless you are town that is, but then your job is to convince me, maybe others why one of those is mafia. We lose otherwise. The way I'm looking at it you're essentially self-destructing with weird hipster reads and I don't take any responsibility at all if you get mislynched.
I dont know how to respond to this.
I'm going to come back to the thread later when there's some townies here.
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EPT
