Reasons Hapahauli is mafia with Jock: - Neither of them having the fury of really fighting against each other earlier when they were scumreading each other. The responses to each other i find out to be super mild in comparison to say Jock's to Trfel. - Both of them being here on deadline, neither of them wanting to do shit about the lynch (there is an example of kind of the same shit here) - Hapa being super cocky only after deadline and not before, esp with this post. I can be and probably am wrong a lot of times but this feels like a scum jab at me knowing i am thinking i am wrong at something, while not wanting to do any of the shit to clear anything up beforehand. It feels shitty and i am gonna feel even more shitty if Hapa in fact does turn up as town but i don't think he will with all this. - It's a good play in all vanilla game. Been there done that.
I know I've been calling you an idiot for the last page and swinging my throbbing and large e-penis, but this pants-on-head tinfoil shit is what makes mafia great.
On April 07 2020 02:05 ShoCkeyy wrote: Well well well, I'm happy with that, one town, one mafia member. I think I'll start changing my filter diving habits then. Hap did not seem very good town at all. Ughh, I'll need to really reevaluate who my reads are, but this puts Hap on my town list.
You said you had filter diving habits, yet you did not listen to me.
On April 07 2020 03:28 ShoCkeyy wrote: You barely have spoken, what am I going to do? Last game you did the same thing... So I'm just going with my gut for the meantime.
My name is Lucca Gallo Ricci!!! And you said that you have not heard my voice?!?!?!?
My cooking session was 36 minutes of me talking!! I haven't heard anyone else talk as much!
Thank goodness a good portion of everyone agreed with me to get rid of my sister. She was not helping the business nor my movies. Consequences.
On April 07 2020 02:05 ShoCkeyy wrote: Well well well, I'm happy with that, one town, one mafia member. I think I'll start changing my filter diving habits then. Hap did not seem very good town at all. Ughh, I'll need to really reevaluate who my reads are, but this puts Hap on my town list.
You said you had filter diving habits, yet you did not listen to me.
I did, and I have a ton of points to make on it, such as hope you washed your hands after that workout. Also you're the only family member I know who cooked steak in an oven while trying to promote our families olive oil for subscribes.
Why the eff did you turn on the left stove top to do nothing with it? And you're using the microwave as a timer lmao, wtf man. wtf so many questions, might be the Ricci powder.
Side note: send some snort-able protein powder over here.
On April 07 2020 04:29 Trfel wrote: @Hapahauli: Why didn't you care who got lynched between you and Jockmcplop?
From my perspective, either we were lynching my top scummread, or I could enjoy the sweet release of death and not have to pay attention to this thread, go to OBS QT heaven, and chat with some old buddy-spectators. Even now, Option 2 sounds fun!
I stopped playing for the loooongest time because the game tends to make me pretty moody and emotionally swingy. I crashed out (as town) of my last few games in this manner... just burnt out too bad. I was riding quite a low prior to the lynch. Now... I'm going to have some fun with this
@Raynpelikoneet: I know this is slightly WIFOM, but if Hapahauli is mafia and double bussed with Jockmcplop, why did he go into the deadline openly saying he doesn't care about the lynch? That seems really dumb to me.
Knowing that I am your towny-town-towniest-town, I have concrete knowledge that this was a town v. mafia lynch.
But all of you don't have that perspective, so bah. Before I begin talking about players, just a couple of observations:
This was a very polarized lynch (everyone on two candidates) forces people to take sides more concretely, and is therefore much more revealing of the motives of various players. Particularly in this case, this was a knife's edge 4v4 vote.
Jock played "scummily" (no offense) enough to where there was a large amount of heat on him from virtually every player in the game. In addition, he made some more "noobie" (again, no offense) scum mistakes that a more "sophisticated" player would have avoided. His "read list" is one of those types of plays, and it almost reads "too scummy to be scum":
On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote: So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez.
Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though.
Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town.
I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot.
Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive.
Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first:
haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched.
Rels Nothing.
Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does.
Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town.
So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment.
...in short, I am reading his filter and taking his motivations and posts at a more transparent level, rather than expecting to see mindgames upon mindgames.
Chez, Trfel, and Vivax are in the do not lynch category. All of them had the opportunity to save their "teammate" but chose not to. If there is a bus play, we can explore that at LYLO. Mafia will likely night-kill from this pile (or me) regardless. I also am not sensing from Jock's filter that the scumteam was coordinated or sophisticated enough to pull off a hard-bus in this manner.
That leaves a lynch list of Shockey, Rayn, and BloodyCobbler. Two of them have to be town, and they all look really bad for a variety of reasons.
Rayn reads strongly town to me, both based on his filter and Jocks' filter. This is for three reasons: 1) Most players, and especially forum players, have some desire to save-face. Pride in a purest sense. Rayn set up for this lynch with reckless abandon with no attempt whatsoever to save face. His posting literally sets up to humiliate himself after the flip. Mafia Rayn would know my alignment, as well as Jock's alignment. He is a sophisticated, smart, and experienced player enough to evaluate that there was a pretty high chance of Jock dying. 2) I really like Rayn's posting right after the flip. Again, a basic desire to save face. The torment of "oh god maybe I was wrong , to *BZZZZT DOES NOT COMPUTE RAWEFWHFJ*, to full on 'jet fuel does not melt steel beams" is a very townie thought process for someone who was wrong, and who's pride will not allow him to admit that he is wrong. 3) Reading Jock's filter transparently, there is a very clear attempt by Jock to white-knight Rayn early in the game:
On April 05 2020 13:55 Jockmcplop wrote: Wow does everyone see something off with rayn?
On April 05 2020 10:22 Trfel wrote: So I think the most suspicious person so far is raynpelikoneet. Implies that I am mafia one post, implies that I am town later + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +
On April 05 2020 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Is that saying you dont belong to the family?
On April 05 2020 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe he fell asleep again? It's also boring to tak with townies only so maybe we wait for the bloody cobbler to arrive.
Why did raynpelikoneet's view change? Even if he's just joking around, if he's town, I expect him to have some perception of my alignment; whatever it is, it can't really fit into both of these statements.
INITIATE DISLIKE PILE.
Care to explain why?
@Vivax, you too?
It looks like you are being very sensitive to rayn's opinion of your alignment, and that oversensitivity has caused you to read something NAI (rayn's early prodding) as being suspicious.
Why does that make me more likely mafia? I think all players, regardless of alignment, are more sensitive to people's opinions of them.
Overdefensiveness and coming into the game immediately being worried about people's read on you is +mafia for sure.
I don't think all players play like that at all.
A big example of this is the way you assume I think you are mafia when before this post I had not said anything of the sort, just that I disliked your previous post (I mostly disliked the logic of it until this response you just made).
So the two assumptions you had made were:
1: I think you are mafia 2: The fact that you think that I think you are mafia, and Vivax's town read on you, are the most important things to you in the thread (ie you didn't respond to or quote anything else)
Both of these assumptions show a mindset that you are coming into the game with, and that mindset is something that I have often seen with scum players.
This post screams of "Jock is taking a hard and safe stance because he knows that Rayn is town". Given Jock's later posts, again, I am taking this post at face value, rather than weighing it for mindgames.
BloodyCobbler and Shockeyy after I grab some foods.
Thoughts from my last posts til now. Good Job Vivax /trfel. You guys are responsible for the win this day.
As of who is likely the last mafia? I would put the person here
Hap//Chezinu/Shockeyy
Because apparently if I don't post fully thought reasons im sketchy as fuck.
Hap didn't give two shits about the vote either way. Sure he has come back and given a reason why he didnt care, however that was after the reveal. Given mindset prior to the lynch was getting to be downright unhelpful / apathetic. I mean outright refusal. Also, since the reveal not only does he come in with a brag post but more importantly
On April 07 2020 02:03 Hapahauli wrote: Y'all are fucking idiots.
Except you Vivax. I love you. Trefel, you 'aight too.
I'm tempted to lynch Rayn for fun before BC mafia.
Not really the mentality of town here. Given that in this post he states he believes Rayn is town and I am mafia. Killing me makes the most logical sense if you believe I am mafia. Not setting up purposeful town deaths.
Shockeyy honestly since his return to the thread is, well to summarize in one word, bad. His general lack of activity mixed with the essential "i am here guys" posts then vanishing makes him look bad. The idea to try and move to a policy lynch that late into the game day is also extremely scummy.
Chezinu. I am merely going to summarize it with this. As entertaining (as they are very entertaining) as his videos are. He specifically said he wanted to kill his sister this game. Look where his vote was planted at the beginning of the game. I will straight out say this is likely a tin foil because jock flipped his sister. But given how theme oriented Chez gets, the play to off jock would make perfect sense.
BloodyCobber looks the worst to me for three reasons: 1) As I mentioned on Day 1, his Shockey read was pulled out of his ass, and is inconsistent with his approach to the game and general townie paranoia. 2) His behavior around Jock and the lynch, at face value, are very pro-Mafia. 3) His post activity surrounding Jock are again, at face value, consistent with an uncoordinated and unsophisticated mafia team.
The Read on Shockey
I'm just going to re-summarize my case for the sake of completeness, and hopefully give some people who were discounting my initial words some more clarity on why I felt as strongly as I did.
Playing as mafia is about creating an illusion of contribution. Contributing to discussion without actually contributing. Taking bold and hard stances without actually taking a risk. Covering your interactions with your partner just enough to avoid suspicion, while allowing you to coordinate with each other towards mafia objectives.
In addition, mafia also play with extra information. They know who's town. Whereas townies often display paranoia, since they are constantly uncertain, especially in the early game.
With these two points in mind, take a look at BC's read list.
On April 05 2020 15:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Town Bloodyc0bbler
Leaning town Shockeyy Jockmcplop
Null Chezinu Rayn Rels
Lean scum Vivax
Scum Trfel Hapa
Firstly, considering what Shockey had done until this point in the game, a slight-town read is not consistent with a paranoid town mindset. Take a look at Shockey's filter and look from the beginning to post #117. There's very little in there. So much so that multiple players were making remarks that Shockey was just coasting along and not contributing much. BC later even acknowledges this and re-bumps Shockey down to null, likely in an attempt to save face (spoilerized below).
Instead, his first read list is consistent with a mafia-mindset who knows that Shockey is town, and is naturally not-all-that-suspicious.
On April 06 2020 05:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The how is purely I didnt find his entrance as jarring mixed with people i had scum reads focusing him.
ATM id drop him down to Rels / Chez territory of null read.
Here I will update my lists for you
Town Bloodyc0bbler
Lean Town Rayn Vivax
Null Rels Shockeyy Chezinu
Lean scum Jock trfel
Scum Hapa
There is a world (with how you are currently being active) where I could see my read on you being wrong. So please keep up the posting =)
Secondly, and as explained before, the whole rationale behind the read is contrived bullshit. For that, we need to look at the "story" that BloodyCobbler is trying to tell about his town play. BloodyCobber is telling the story that he is reading player filters for the content that they are posting. He considers "substanceless" posting indicative of a mafia tell. Examples are abound:
Regarding his scumread on me (Hapa):
On April 05 2020 15:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: His posts scream posting for sake of posting. Asking questions is great, but only if followed by content. I dont like what ive seen thus far.
On April 05 2020 15:07 Trfel wrote: On phone and in bed, so not going to quote you Jockmcplop, hope that's okay.
I don't care about Vivax townreading me because I don't care too much about townreads in general (especially at this stage in the game) and I thought I knew why he was townreading me (since he later explained why, it turns out I was only partially correct, ah well).
I don't really know how to respond to the rest of your post so let me know if I missed something. But it seems that a key point is my "case's" first point on raynpelikoneet. It's not that he has an implied read that is suspicious, it's that the implied/joke read changes. Townies usually approach mafia from two perspectives: treat everyone as town until there is reason to suspect otherwise, or treat everyone as suspicious until they show otherwise. Raynpelikoneet's posts don't fit in either mindset.
That said, if I'm being honest, it's not a strong point at all and we all know this. I'm saying it's the most suspicious thing at that point in the game. Why'd I bring it up then, so people like you have something to talk about! I'd say it worked perfectly
hmm...
i quite like this logic even if I don't agree.
This is the post that made me change my mind. There are many many ways to attack this post in case Jock wants to do that, especially since i don't do any of what Trfel says here. Furthermore even if i did, it's no way of comparing that narrative to my early posting because i posted a joke and a bait to you. No reads lol.
TBH the post jock quoted here (especially the bolded part) is a reason i have a scum read on trfel atm.
Why does the bolded part make Trfel mafia?
What does it add to the thread? How is it helping us progress towards catching someone who is scum? What point does explaining how the game should be played, in relation to a player whos playstyle is a known quantity, to justify a hard stance read this early in the game?
Like, I havent played seriously for years, but what he posted is shit mafia have done for ages to try and blend in. Talking about how one should or shouldn't play makes you look like you are providing useful content when its instead just fluff. If you take into consideration how hard he also was defending himself / reacting to general suspicion so early into the game gives me the read I have.
On April 05 2020 18:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: BC i don't really think there is much chance of Vivax being mafia.
Its why I have him as a scum lean. Play I dislike / view as bad (not saying it is the wrong way to play just that i dont like it) makes me lower you down until you do something that stands out. I am merely waiting for it. He has been more active since my original read, but he still needs to give real content to the thread.
... this post on vivax is suggestive that his "method" of early-game tells is just to look for people who seem "contentless" and re-evaluate them as the game goes on. He is willing to cast suspicion on play that he "dislike[s] / view[s] as bad" early on.
Given this mentality of reading for "substanceless posting", it is then inconceivable from a town-BC perspective that he would read Shockey's filter and come out with slightly town. Again, see Shockeyy's filter to post #117:
There is NO. FUCKING. WAY. That he could genuinely read Shockey as having any substance. Therefore his read is bullshit. Mafia attempting to contribute bullshit reads, and thereby not contributing. Playing with extra information, and therefore knowing that Shockey is town rather than being suspicious of him.
His Behavior around the Lynch
Mafia would ideally like to transparently lynch townies. But since there's a desire to save face (and distance) in the event of a wrong lynch, a transparent mafia player will cast just enough suspicion on his mafia buddy to distance. BloodyCobbler's actions look like a very transparent attempt to distance, and then fuck-off from the thread and cross his fingers, hoping town lynches wrong.
BloodyCobbler was active early, is inactive for a period, and then re-enters the thread a bit past the 24 hour mark, right after I call him and Jock mafia. Jock had already made a series of "sketchy" posts, which BC identifies. Note the reaction:
On April 06 2020 04:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yo Jock, wtf was were those last like 2-3 posts by you.
What happened in your brain that could possibly lead your mind into doing the shit you just did.
On April 06 2020 04:41 Hapahauli wrote: Are you calling him bad, or are you calling him mafia?
On April 06 2020 04:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yes
On April 06 2020 04:56 Hapahauli wrote: How and why are you slight-town-reading Shockeyy? Are you still?
On April 06 2020 05:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The how is purely I didnt find his entrance as jarring mixed with people i had scum reads focusing him.
ATM id drop him down to Rels / Chez territory of null read.
Here I will update my lists for you
Town Bloodyc0bbler
Lean Town Rayn Vivax
Null Rels Shockeyy Chezinu
Lean scum Jock trfel
Scum Hapa
There is a world (with how you are currently being active) where I could see my read on you being wrong. So please keep up the posting =)
This is a very prototypical mafia way of saving face. His partner fucked up. Fucked up so bad that BC had to change his read on him. BC takes what is seemingly a strong stance with a ton of bravado in post #1 of this series, but when you unpack it, it is actually pretty weak. Jock only goes down to "lean scum", justifies his vote on me (the other guy on the lynch ticket), then proceeds to fuck off from the thread until past the lynch deadline.
Transparent. Mafia. Trying to distance himself from Jock. Trying to appear like he's taking a hard stance on Jock, but not actually doing anything brave.
Interactions with Jock
I wont beleaguer the point (because this post is long-winded as fuck), but the interactions between BC and Jock are noteworthy, in that they are very typical mafia interactions. They are chatty and interact without really showing any suspicion, anger, or confrontation with each other. BC in particular seemed interested in throwing Jock some softballs.
On April 05 2020 13:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yo jock. You read things clearly. Anything good catch your eye? yes no maybe so?
In response to Jock white-knighting BC:
On April 05 2020 14:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I see something "off" but as of right now not alignment indicative. I just need to see more to swing either way.
On April 05 2020 14:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I see something "off" but as of right now not alignment indicative. I just need to see more to swing either way.
Trfel / hap are where my eyes are focused atm
What do you think of Shockeyy's entrance? His tone seems weird to me. I don't know what that means for shockeyy though tbh.
havent played with him in ages tbh.
my memory from the ol days aint what it used to be. I want more from him atm but thats about it.
On April 05 2020 14:43 Vivax wrote: Shockeyy do you have any scumreads or leads? Feels like you are just coexisting.
Jock I really really think Trfel is town here. He has a mind of his own if I had to name the reason, instead of just being a void content factory.
That is basically the easiest thing hes posted that I went "wtf" on. Also, he didnt answer a question I posted a few pages ago and has been "active' while not actively pushing much. Outside of basically Trfe and rayn, Vivax has no real reads/leanings on peoples alignment. Or at least ones hes posted. Meanwhile he called someone out for almost identical behaviour
On April 05 2020 15:07 Trfel wrote: On phone and in bed, so not going to quote you Jockmcplop, hope that's okay.
I don't care about Vivax townreading me because I don't care too much about townreads in general (especially at this stage in the game) and I thought I knew why he was townreading me (since he later explained why, it turns out I was only partially correct, ah well).
I don't really know how to respond to the rest of your post so let me know if I missed something. But it seems that a key point is my "case's" first point on raynpelikoneet. It's not that he has an implied read that is suspicious, it's that the implied/joke read changes. Townies usually approach mafia from two perspectives: treat everyone as town until there is reason to suspect otherwise, or treat everyone as suspicious until they show otherwise. Raynpelikoneet's posts don't fit in either mindset.
That said, if I'm being honest, it's not a strong point at all and we all know this. I'm saying it's the most suspicious thing at that point in the game. Why'd I bring it up then, so people like you have something to talk about! I'd say it worked perfectly
hmm...
i quite like this logic even if I don't agree.
This is the post that made me change my mind. There are many many ways to attack this post in case Jock wants to do that, especially since i don't do any of what Trfel says here. Furthermore even if i did, it's no way of comparing that narrative to my early posting because i posted a joke and a bait to you. No reads lol.
TBH the post jock quoted here (especially the bolded part) is a reason i have a scum read on trfel atm.
He's very chatty, nice, and friendly to Jock, and rewards him with a slight town read on his read list. What's importat is what is missing: There's no suspicion, attempt to push Jock on any of his opinions, etc. They're very chatty and friendly. This reads a lot like BC is trying to help Jock and ease him into the game.
Jock's reads on BC
Its worth a separate section to point out just how bullshitty Jock's end of day read on BC is:
On April 06 2020 05:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The how is purely I didnt find his entrance as jarring mixed with people i had scum reads focusing him.
ATM id drop him down to Rels / Chez territory of null read.
Here I will update my lists for you
Town Bloodyc0bbler
Lean Town Rayn Vivax
Null Rels Shockeyy Chezinu
Lean scum Jock trfel
Scum Hapa
There is a world (with how you are currently being active) where I could see my read on you being wrong. So please keep up the posting =)
I don't like the way he jumped on the jock train with everyone else but I can understand it if he sees my posts as objectively bad. I don't get why though.
He's moved you up to being a town read which is confusing. I don't see how your play has changed since he was leaning scum on you. Is he just following other people's reads?
The other changes seem natural to me, shockeyy down to null and rayn up to town lean.
Vivax, if you say there's an algorithmic way of thinking about mafia and you get where BC is coming from with that, would you say he is consistent about through day 1 so far? Surely that's a way we can get a read on him, but I'm not familiar with the idea.
On April 06 2020 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: He said Vivax wasn't explaining his reads until he did, and his position changed on the list after that.
Yeah that checks out.
BC still a townread for me then.
It's this super wishy-washy, awful, "say things without saying anything" post that ultimately concludes that BC is town. Again, much more consistent with mafia trying to bullshit-distance from a buddy vs. mafia white-knighting or hard reading someone they know is town.
With that... pretty convinced that BC is our last guy.
I don't think me listing a bunch of reasons to find Shockey suspicious would be at all productive to the town's purpose right now.
@Rayn I put my try-hard pants on just for you. Take a step back from the game. Come back in a few hours, and then read Jocks' filter. Read at how bad and scummy he was, and then try to square that away with a sophisticated all-out hard bus play.
Jock was just a transparent scummy dude. And he has transparent scummy actions with BC, who is his scummy partner scummer.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/dewDSIL.jpg)
