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I am going to say nothing more on Eversince since all the evidence is wildly abundant and hopefully getting her to do something that isn't defending herself will make her generate some semblance of content.
I don't think she understands the points against her totally still either lol.
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On July 04 2019 15:59 Trfel wrote:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Eversince I noticed you'd just discussed it right after I posted. Can I ask what in particular you liked about Holyflare's reasoning?
I went through Holyflare's filter and there's some stuff I don't like but I'm not sure what it means. Need to think more.
Holyflare, why do you think Pandain is town? Or do you still? What do you think about Grackaroni?
Elaborate.
I've lost my read on Pandain after the deadline slightly. It was more the interaction with Jock and myself with him there calming jock down with reasonable assumptions that made me town read him but I realise this can be someone trying to pocket me with perfect information.
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On July 04 2019 16:42 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 16:39 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 15:59 Trfel wrote:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Eversince I noticed you'd just discussed it right after I posted. Can I ask what in particular you liked about Holyflare's reasoning?
I went through Holyflare's filter and there's some stuff I don't like but I'm not sure what it means. Need to think more.
Holyflare, why do you think Pandain is town? Or do you still? What do you think about Grackaroni? Elaborate. I've lost my read on Pandain after the deadline slightly. It was more the interaction with Jock and myself with him there calming jock down with reasonable assumptions that made me town read him but I realise this can be someone trying to pocket me with perfect information. Where are you on rayn currently hf (other than the fact he voted for someone you also think is scum)?
He agrees with me and pretty much talked about the grack meta on Eversince first. He's town until further notice.
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On July 04 2019 16:55 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 16:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 04 2019 16:39 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 15:59 Trfel wrote:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Eversince I noticed you'd just discussed it right after I posted. Can I ask what in particular you liked about Holyflare's reasoning?
I went through Holyflare's filter and there's some stuff I don't like but I'm not sure what it means. Need to think more.
Holyflare, why do you think Pandain is town? Or do you still? What do you think about Grackaroni? Elaborate. I've lost my read on Pandain after the deadline slightly. It was more the interaction with Jock and myself with him there calming jock down with reasonable assumptions that made me town read him but I realise this can be someone trying to pocket me with perfect information. Where are you on rayn currently hf (other than the fact he voted for someone you also think is scum)? He agrees with me and pretty much talked about the grack meta on Eversince first. He's town until further notice.
The Eversince meta on grack *
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On July 04 2019 17:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why didnt you vote for grack though at the time in case you thought hes better lynch than ES?
I am almost 100% certain eversince returned and said something I hated and I said the words "I think I'm fine leaving my vote where it is".
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I was also on the train home anyway and ain't nothing getting done then. Only get signal at stations for like 2 seconds to make a post.
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On July 04 2019 02:38 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 02:34 Grackaroni wrote:On July 03 2019 18:08 Holyflare wrote:On July 03 2019 17:51 Pandain wrote:
I don't think ES is crazy/meta enough to do something like that. It's obvious she's been desperate to survive, if she was mafia she would jump at the opportunity to lynch someone she has expressed doubts about before.
@conf, HF, Rayn please comment on this. I don't agree with your conclusion. She's meekly soft defended grack all game and then sprinkled "hesitance" and done nothing with it. They could easily be mafia together, or she could know he's town. Both things point to a mafia es because grack looks absolutely shit and a free lynch for literally anyone to hop onto.  On July 04 2019 01:54 Holyflare wrote:
If I had to choose between Grack or ES for a lynch I'd probably choose grack tbh. His filter is void of literally aby content. People are town, he guesses I could maybe be mafia. Es is town because of bathtub? Drunk posting that doesn't even look drunk?
Dumb and probably mafia. + Show Spoiler + Difference being I read your filter in between those posts. It's bad.
Read grack's filter on train posted this.
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On July 04 2019 03:11 Holyflare wrote:
I think I'll leave my vote where it is in the meanwhile...
Posted this when Eversince returned.
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On July 04 2019 03:02 Eversince wrote:
Looks like I'm die..
I'm try to catch up but I have to go take care of animals. No promises.
It was after this post which was essentially an afk excuse when under pressure. Keep seeing them every time I bring up a case or valid points on her.
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On July 04 2019 17:00 Trfel wrote:The Most Sucky Case You Will Ever See - Read on Pandain changing for no reason
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +Early on, Holyflare was suspicious of Pandain: On July 02 2019 16:28 Holyflare wrote:
I don't like Pandain deciding to town read trfel, hearing trfel say his read wasn't that strong but THEN saying "I don't think trfel would make such a strong town read as mafia because that ties his hands."
Feels like you ignored everything trfel was saying. Don't hate the picking up on grack and conversion later but the trfel thing, especially downgrading your read after for something not relevant at all (the bolded thing you highlighted) looks like you're just winging your read and aren't thinking it through. On July 02 2019 17:25 Holyflare wrote:
(...)
Nothing really unique to add. Disappointed nobody even quoted my pandain post, I thought it was quite good. On July 03 2019 20:07 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 19:26 Jockmcplop wrote:Here's a spreadsheet, it was really easy to make this time, please tell me if I've got anything wrong. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Azlh232.png) This is wrong, I quite clearly called out pandain and you piggybacked it but it's not here. Me being lazy doesn't make me mafia though. Later, he posted and said Pandain was town, for no reason: On July 04 2019 01:37 Holyflare wrote:
I think Pandain and eywa are town for what it's worth. I wouldn't clear rayn because his logic doesn't really hold up but I don't want to get in a shit fight about it so I'll ignore it and see how it goes. I got the feeling jock was overzealous townie that thought he had something on me and that looked good but he's pushed it a smidge too far for my liking so I'm downgrading him.
Conversion/grack/es/rayn/trfl/jock
It's a big list but I really haven't given a shit about the game until now so I'll narrow it down when I'm home. - Evolution of reads
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +On July 04 2019 01:37 Holyflare wrote:
I think Pandain and eywa are town for what it's worth. I wouldn't clear rayn because his logic doesn't really hold up but I don't want to get in a shit fight about it so I'll ignore it and see how it goes. I got the feeling jock was overzealous townie that thought he had something on me and that looked good but he's pushed it a smidge too far for my liking so I'm downgrading him.
Conversion/grack/es/rayn/trfl/jock
It's a big list but I really haven't given a shit about the game until now so I'll narrow it down when I'm home. Let's primarily work from this post, as this is the first real time Holyflare has provided reads in this game and it is also when he says he is starting to take the game seriously. Seventeen minutes later: On July 04 2019 01:54 Holyflare wrote:
If I had to choose between Grack or ES for a lynch I'd probably choose grack tbh. His filter is void of literally aby content. People are town, he guesses I could maybe be mafia. Es is town because of bathtub? Drunk posting that doesn't even look drunk?
Dumb and probably mafia. Honestly this just feels lazy. Seventeen minutes after having a large POE list with everyone seemingly equal, he comes up with a probable mafia read. I don't understand the progression from pushing Eversince to a POE to scumreading Grackaroni back to voting for Eversince? Holyflare clearly said he thought both Eversince and Grackaroni were mafia: On July 03 2019 19:12 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 18:12 Pandain wrote:On July 03 2019 18:08 Holyflare wrote:On July 03 2019 17:51 Pandain wrote:
I don't think ES is crazy/meta enough to do something like that. It's obvious she's been desperate to survive, if she was mafia she would jump at the opportunity to lynch someone she has expressed doubts about before.
@conf, HF, Rayn please comment on this. I don't agree with your conclusion. She's meekly soft defended grack all game and then sprinkled "hesitance" and done nothing with it. They could easily be mafia together, or she could know he's town. Both things point to a mafia es because grack looks absolutely shit and a free lynch for literally anyone to hop onto. She's said several times that she might be up for lynching Grack. It would not be suspicious at all for her to vote Grack if she thought it was the only way to not get lynched. But she refused to do this. The fact she refuses to lynch someone who you think "Looks absolutely shit and a free lynch" should strike you as townie, particuarly when it's the only way she could avoid getting lynched. It also doesn't matter if she knows he's town. If she's mafia, she's trying to survive. You still can't justify mafia ES not joining the grack train. I can because I can simultaneously think Grack is mafia and do. Really it's just the POE list here that is rather out of place. Why does he go from having two strong scumreads, presumably solving the game, then start taking the game seriously only to instantaneously arrive at the same two strong scumreads? - Not doing anything at End of Day
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +To me this is the strongest point. About two and a half hours before the lynch, Holyflare says that he would slightly prefer lynching Grackaroni over Eversince: On July 04 2019 01:54 Holyflare wrote:
If I had to choose between Grack or ES for a lynch I'd probably choose grack tbh. His filter is void of literally aby content. People are town, he guesses I could maybe be mafia. Es is town because of bathtub? Drunk posting that doesn't even look drunk?
Dumb and probably mafia. Day 1 vote count Vote Count, Eight Minutes to EoD Eversince: (5) raynpelikoneet, Eywa-, Holyflare, Conversion, Grackaroni Grackaroni: (4) Trfel, Pandain, jockmcplop, Eversince If Holyflare changed his vote to Grackaroni, Grackaroni would be lynched instead of Eversince. Let's assume that Eversince's posts and discussion with Holyflare caused Holyflare to change his mind and prefer lynching Eversince to lynching Grackaroni. But even still, Holyflare very obviously preferred lynching Grackaroni to lynching anyone else. With obvious shenanigans coming (evidence to follow), Holyflare here could either: push hard for an Eversince lynch to try and make sure he gets his preferred lynch, or vote for Grackaroni, a lynch he is happy with, to prevent shenanigans off of his preferred lynch targets. Posts in the thread in the last eight minutes of Day 1, making it clear that shenanigans were incoming: On July 04 2019 04:24 Pandain wrote:
I'm strongly for a Conv lynch (if Grack won't get lynched) just because I have town reads on everyone except Grack and him.
Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie.
Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me.
Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack) On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:
Pandain switch to conversion with me On July 04 2019 04:26 Pandain wrote:I switched. Who else wants to join? On July 04 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote:
If ES and Trfel switch ES is saved
Grack vote conv Instead of voting for Grackaroni or persuading people not to switch votes, Holyflare argues with Eversince, accomplishing neither of these goals. He does make one post directed to the thread as a whole: On July 04 2019 04:29 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 04:28 Pandain wrote:
HF no idea why you're talking when you're never gonna change your mind in a million years Because I know you tools will do some stupid shit and she won't get lynched. But if he really wanted to prevent the shenanigans and the Conversion lynch, it would have been much more effective to push for Eversince and talk to the people present, instead of arguing with his extremely strong scumread. Holyflare carries a lot of influence and generally gets his way in mafia games, but here it feels like he just kinda let it happen.
- Arguing with his strong scumread, Eversince
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +I'm not going to provide quotes on this one, there are way too many. Choose a random page in the thread and you'll probably be over your head in examples.
Holyflare has spent a very significant amount of his filter arguing with his strong scumread. It's fairly well-known that arguing with scumreads isn't recommended, as they are likely mafia, so of course they will lie and never agree with you and have no town explanation for your points. Of course it is necessary to discuss with scumreads to help confirm your read, but Holyflare in this game does this in great excess, I've never seen him do this before. Very rarely does Holyflare address the thread, even in his large case (the largest case I've seen Holyflare make, by far), he's just trying to convince Eversince that she is mafia.
Conclusion: I dunno, frankly this case kinda sucks. But Holyflare's play this game still strikes me as odd, I can't shake that. Not sure if I ever will. He's probably just town and he'll probably just get night killed sometime soon and I can breathe a sigh of relief, but whatever. At least my case looks pretty, right? @Holyflare, please feel free to address the points I've brought up and help me to understand. If you're town it would make me feel a whole lot better about you at least. No need to explain a ton, I know my case is weak.
I'll answer these in order because obviously you just read my filter like some journalist and misconstrued it by not reading the context.
Pandain opening looked really bad.
Hf works
Hf works
Hf works
Jock says hf is mafia, pandain says reasonable things (eywa too at the time)
Hf says pandain and eywa town
Original scum read on eversince was meta. That faded and was replaced with better points (that I've said multiple times).
Jock gave me passion to write things in thread.
Grack looked shit from memory (100% of my play is just skimming in a minute at work on phone and writing posts every so often) so I read his filter. It looked terrible.
Would much rather lynch a guy that looks terrible over someone that was talking and said a lot of words (es).
Es returns and says bad things, misconstrues points, says lies. My vote is fine where it is.
Point about not making people vote es at deadline is whatever. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I'm mafia. Just arrived home not that long ago and had better things to do. That was also only 4 minutes to go and I didn't think they'd ever get 5 votes but you were a ninja and didn't say a word so. I blame you personally.
Have you ever seen a game where I don't argue with my scum read? I think I'm more frustrated that Eversince misconstrues my own case against her than anything lol :D it's not arguing, it's more trying to get es to understand my points which I guess is a losing battle. I can always be wrong so I don't see the harm in arguing. That's the game.
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On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size.
No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded.
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On July 04 2019 17:15 Pandain wrote:
Like the whole conversation between HF and Grack was so bad.
HF: Thinking about voting for Grack. I think he's mafia Actually, I will vote for him!
Grack: Hey!
HF: Convince me you're town
Grack: I'm just a lazy boy.
HF: Sounds great to me!
That's not what happened at all.
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On July 04 2019 17:22 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size. No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded. ES did exactly the same in the last game as town.
Do you think I pay attention to people I don't scum read?
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On July 04 2019 17:23 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size. No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded. You think the person with the largest filter who has been constantly responding to criticism the entire previous day suddenly chooses one hour before lynch to make an AFK excuse?
THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID.
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On July 04 2019 17:10 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 03:02 Eversince wrote:
Looks like I'm die..
I'm try to catch up but I have to go take care of animals. No promises.
It was after this post which was essentially an afk excuse when under pressure. Keep seeing them every time I bring up a case or valid points on her.
EVERY TIME there is a valid point or case an excuse comes out. It doesn't matter if she posts more after it, feeling the need to post it is scummy imo. Especially if you stay!
On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size. No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded.
If you think this is solely why I wanted to lynch Eversince and this is what you think made me solely keep my vote on her then you're either terrible or mafia. It's way better to keep pressure on someone that I have a case on and instill the fear of a lynch in them than vote grack who has done nothing.
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On July 04 2019 17:26 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:23 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:15 Pandain wrote:
Like the whole conversation between HF and Grack was so bad.
HF: Thinking about voting for Grack. I think he's mafia Actually, I will vote for him!
Grack: Hey!
HF: Convince me you're town
Grack: I'm just a lazy boy.
HF: Sounds great to me! That's not what happened at all. It's exactly what happened, just add in your nonsensical anger at ES claiming she was AFK. I invite anyone to reread the conversation: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/549333-minifeast-15?page=38
Like it's quite literally not what happened in the slightest. If es posted nothing I would have moved to grack.
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Do you think it matters if the person with the largest filter posts afk excuses? What's your point? My point is clearly that she has some subconscious need to post afk excuses when she doesn't actually need to afk.
Coupled that with the fact I had outstanding points on her and she was the leading wagon vs a guy that at the time had done nothing and now that I read back was posting valid points on rayn's read on es why would I not keep my vote on her?
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You are misrepresenting things entirely. You're picking and choosing what I say and ignoring the perfectly valid reasons for why I did them just to say "lol because of an afk excuse over grack!" which is not what I did in the slightest.
Then you acknowledge I never actually dropped it because of grack's posts so what you're doing is in fact misrepresenting the "facts" entirely.
Very bad look for you pandain. What is even the point behind your read here? That I voted someone over someone else or what? That I didn't vote grack so I'm mafia because?
Either I told the truth or in some way I lied but you've never said my motivation for lying at any point so the only option left is truth.
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Yes, people fall for honesty, it's quite easy. You just need to be honest.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://media.giphy.com/media/9V8QmSctSLkx31xwwG/giphy.gif)
