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On May 24 2019 15:27 iGrok wrote:Ok, so first, rebutting HF's nonsense. ##vote HFSo he starts with my fake vote on rayne. I am literally not allowed to discuss that, sorry. HF will continue, throughout his entire takedown piece, bring up my initial rux/diso statement, even when I change my read after reading more. -I'm pretty sure HF doesn't understand the concept of -not tunnelling-, or (as I really think) he's scum. Or both Then he posts my "read" of Calix. The thing about my "reads" is that unlike most people, I'm not making a case. I give my thoughts. a lot is lost when I copy/paste. I'll include a picture of the map, with colors etc + Show Spoiler [blue doesn't mean blue, mafia.…] +Next, HF quotes the same post twice, somehow thinking he's trapped me by making me work after I said I was time limited. This is just... bad. HF is very upset that I called him dumbtown. Honestly, I shouldn't have called Calix potentially dumbtown. I was a little frustrated that I hadn't caught that, if I had more time to focus then maybe I wouldn't have been frustrated. HF also apparently doesn't understand what its like to not just tunnel someone. I hope that one day, I can be like as HF and have 100% confidence that I am always right the first time, every time. Finally, concludes with accusing me of being mafia because I'm not in the thread. The "Where's his head at?" made me laugh. For all his filter diving of me, he still can't tell that I'M AT A FUCKING 12 HOUR/DAY INTENSIVE SEMINAR FOR WORK. As I've said. Multiple times. And no one else seems to have an issue figuring that out. Also, yeah the best vets were basically day 2 monsters. The meta now seems to be to Tunnel someone until they crack, and spam the shit out of the thread, but back then that was the rare exception (Palmar for example). I'm nowhere near as good as foolishness, radfield, Ace, Dr.H etc - but I think a lot of people then wanted to emulate their playstyle. I haven't played in a while, and my plan for any game where I don't know a lot of the players is to be as open as I can, and just convince them I'm town. I believe day 1 is mostly just about stirring shit up, read generation as I said before. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to talk about what my plan was day 1, and I literally can't say more than that. But yeah, none of this was for HF, this is for everyone else. Now, I've got 1 more day of seminar, and then a red-eye flight home. I'll still be reading, and commenting occasionally, but please don't fuck this up. Also, Conversion if I see you in LA, remember, no talking about the ongoing game 
+ Show Spoiler +
so like, let's say you're town right, and you've done all this effort to make these graphs and notes and whatnot, which I think none of us can read because it's too blurry but I can believe that if you're town you've done lots of stuff away from thread.
but at the same time you've done all this scummy stuff which HF has pointed it out, and I'm mostly in agreement with it being really bad, especially your EOD business where you listed 3 pairs of players:
ruxx and Calix
ruxx and HF
HF and Calix
and said for some reason each of those pairs has at most 1 scum but you townread ruxxar (maybe?? I really didn't understand the logic) and thus HF is the scum and wasted your vote (??)
Like first of all, that didn't make any sense. But second of all, as far as I can tell your read on Calix didn't change and you knew you'd never get HF lynched, you even said that yourself. So why did you let your townread ruxxar die instead of killing Calix who by your own logic was still scummy? Like that's the key here, you have to explain why you said you'd never get HF lynched yet you still voted him and in the process you let a townread get lynched over Calix. You were around for the flip too because you told me off right after. Why wouldn't you either switch your vote back when it was clear no one was agreeing with or understanding you, or try an alternate approach to convincing me that HF was scum?
Lastly you type this rebuttal and vote HF but there is no explanation for why HF is scum and not just a tunneled or incorrect townie. It's just "he's tunneling me and wrong therefore he's scum" which is honestly not a very convincing argument. And actually your language waffles between implying that he's tunneled town and scum and looks like you just did a poor job of hiding TMI, but maybe I'm reading too much into that.
It's not like pure effort on the basis of your notes and stuff exonerates you here either even though it looks townie to me because literally every player in the game has put in a good amount of effort in some capacity, even if it's pure posting volume like rayn/koshi, besides perhaps BC/Artanis and the townie who I got lynched yesterday.
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On May 24 2019 08:25 Holyflare wrote:
I have a task for you Koshi. I want you to stop me winning the game if I'm mafia. Why are you actively sitting back and letting me do it?
Make a case on me. Convince people. Get some fire and burning passion against me going, make a wagon.
Never!!!
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Bugs if ur still here I have a question about hf.
You said that in the last game you scumread hf in a similar way to how I did yesterday.
On reflection, would you say that hf delibreately put you in that position?
I mean if we're to read into this what he wants us to he infers he's using that to confirm townies. I don't exactly see how scum hf couldn't act in exactly the same way though.
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On May 24 2019 16:19 Jockmcplop wrote:
Bugs if ur still here I have a question about hf.
You said that in the last game you scumread hf in a similar way to how I did yesterday.
On reflection, would you say that hf delibreately put you in that position?
I mean if we're to read into this what he wants us to he infers he's using that to confirm townies. I don't exactly see how scum hf couldn't act in exactly the same way though.
Like I'm not trying to confirm anything right now it'd just help me see yesterday in context.
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HF is mafia. Just remember that guys.
Just remember it.
Tou dont have to act on it. You just have to know it.
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On May 24 2019 16:26 Koshi wrote:
HF is mafia. Just remember that guys.
Just remember it.
Tou dont have to act on it. You just have to know it.
One day are you going to show us how you come to your conclusions?
No pressure, koshi. Y'know. Do what you want.......
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On May 24 2019 16:26 Koshi wrote:
HF is mafia. Just remember that guys.
Just remember it.
Tou dont have to act on it. You just have to know it.
I mean igrok just called me town the entire time soooo :D
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On May 24 2019 16:28 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 16:26 Koshi wrote:
HF is mafia. Just remember that guys.
Just remember it.
Tou dont have to act on it. You just have to know it. One day are you going to show us how you come to your conclusions? No pressure, koshi. Y'know. Do what you want.......
A girl is allowed her secrets.
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On May 24 2019 16:32 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 16:28 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 24 2019 16:26 Koshi wrote:
HF is mafia. Just remember that guys.
Just remember it.
Tou dont have to act on it. You just have to know it. One day are you going to show us how you come to your conclusions? No pressure, koshi. Y'know. Do what you want....... A girl is allowed her secrets.
Fair enough its your call....
I don't know how long you can keep jsut saying what you're reads are without explaining a single thing though. People are eventually gonna think you're mafia. The only way they possibly could not think that is by using.....
Associative reads.
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Jock do you think igrok's response looks like something he'd write to a mafia read?
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Can we talk about Artanis???
I mentioned this yesterday but can someone tell me how this case on Bugs is worth a lynch at all????
I mean did Artanis think this was strong enough to lynch Bugs off the back of it? I dunno its the biggest read/explanation post he's made so far in the whole game and it just doesn't work logically.
Bugs is mafia because he is defensive and closed minded?
Please.
They aren't even mafia traits are they?
I can kinda see where he's coming from when he says that bugs isn't giving solid reads (not in this post) but this case is just LAME.
Similarly the BC case just looks like waffle to me.
Can't he do something better than this just to stop us from lynching him?
On May 23 2019 20:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:First, why I'm not as sold on BC anymore. He's significantly dialed down his aggression in general when there's no real reason to and is giving opinions on a lot of things. It's this sequence of posts: Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I r back now and fuck, sorry guys. The way Ruxxar was playing I thought the read was right =\ Even if my voted wasn't on him, my read still played a huge part in his death.
As for the newest events of the last 20 pages or so.
No Bugs, after al that has been said and done, I wont be agreeing to kill VE. I voted for him (briefly) for the same reasons I started to lose my read of HF in the last game. Having time to sit back, think, and reflect I just can't kill him atm.
Looking at the thread trying to be impartial again to avoid the tunnel mentality and the adversity from contrary reads VE looks good. and his reasonings for the slight changes between games makes sense. Can't kill him as of yet.
Looking at the thread now, especially during the night phase. I would say this.
Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi (i hate saying this), all look decent and should be where any protective roles we have be sitting.
As much I know that I am on that list because I know that I am 100% town, given that basically no one else thinks so, leave me to potential bullets. Bugs, and I personally would say Jock, basically lives in the same zone that I am.
That leaves everyone else.
There is enough consensus now on Artanis that although the way I got my initial read on him was completely stupid, he has continued to post in a way that I still think is mafia. Plus the people who seem to be playing better than me agree on it so I feel a bit more sure.
the other 2 I feel are scattered between Callix, Igrok, Conversion and Disinformation. Im trying to avoid tunneling like I have been, because I can see that I have been now.
I need to reread Calix and Igrok as through tunneling artanis, ruxxar and disinformation I more or less left them by the wayside.
Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Bugs. I will fully agree that my first major read on Artanis was after he tunnel dove me and said shit I know is wrong. Your reason for why i was super pissed is right though. I gave him a pass, got shat on by him for giving him that pass, had my filter misinterpreted and shit made up. So I will fully admit I got pissed and tunneled on him.
Now. Do I still think hes mafia? yes, but hes currently the only read I had that I am committed to.
That is also concentrating mainly on the last 24ish hours as well. The content is partially important, but more so is the tone. As mafia there'd be no reason to do anything but keep the focus on me with thread sentiment on his side. He also seems to be working with people to actively try and get a read on them. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 20:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I have already stated when I scum read you and when I upgraded my read. Those are clearly already in thread. So go filter dive me if you want to read them. Even you have to put through the extra work if we are going to solve the game. The tone is just so different from earlier and there was no pressure on him to change, really. All the people accusing him were considered null at best. As for why WBG: Same tone thing, but very differently. When HF accused me of something that was wrong, this was how he replied: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote:On May 22 2019 04:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And HF, explain your read progression on me. You disliked me, read my filter, gave a begrudging townread and now you're scumreading me for something that is wholly false. Eh, yeah, you're pretty correct actually I don't know. I think it's because you're just not around that you kind of fall by the wayside and I'm like "oh, I haven't scum read that guy in a while and nobody else fits, let's call him mafia." Extremely transparent, acknowledges his reasons for reading me were inaccurate and.. that's it. He doesn't arrive at a conclusion immedately because it's not necessary. Contrast that with Bugs regarding me accusing BC: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
why did people say BC OMGUSed artanis when BC scumread artanis first
or at least I feel like I remember that sentiment was thrown around
ok w/e. Too much thinking.
Makes an incorrect statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE.
I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him.
I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me insteadLastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. Expands on statement, showcases its importance regarding reading me and disfo. Did not check the validity of said statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 23 2019 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE. I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him. I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me instead Lastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. I didn't know May 21 2019 21:08 was before May 20 2019 22:22 in your calendar, WBG. Did you scumread BC before you voted him? Because if you did then I honestly just didn’t remember that, all I remember is that I ignored you for a while since your vote was on me and you were mostly AFK so why would I bother reading you. If you did indeed scumread him before then my apologies, I’m wrong and BC OMGUSed you. Not sure that makes him scum or that his assessment of the situation from his perspective is scummy given that I agreed with it. "Oh I was wrong, but it doesn't change my BC read!" The focus is much more defensive and closed. Then the most recent post made above feels to me like he's trying to stay 'above' the discussion. Get people to guess at his little game to get free townreads.. it doesn't feel like he's critically trying to think of the game, but just filling up space whilst sitting on the sidelines. ##Vote wherebugsgo
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On May 24 2019 17:06 Holyflare wrote:
Jock do you think igrok's response looks like something he'd write to a mafia read?
No it looks like he's calling your case stupid a bunch of times and leaving it at that.
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I think it's bit of a weak standpoint for a day 2 case, yeah. He recently just said he had no scum reads though so I think he's dropped it?
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I'VE SEEN DEFENSIVE, CLOSED MINDED TOWNIES IN THIS FUCKING GAME AND THEY DIDN'T GET CALLED OUT BY ARTANIS
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On May 24 2019 17:11 Holyflare wrote:
I think it's bit of a weak standpoint for a day 2 case, yeah. He recently just said he had no scum reads though so I think he's dropped it?
But if he's got not scum reads what's he doing??? It doesn't look like he's trying to me.
There's not a whole lot of point in asking you about this. I want Artyfartanis to come here and answer these questions..
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I don't hate the artanis pressure but why is there no igrok pressure? 
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On May 24 2019 16:42 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 16:32 Koshi wrote:On May 24 2019 16:28 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 24 2019 16:26 Koshi wrote:
HF is mafia. Just remember that guys.
Just remember it.
Tou dont have to act on it. You just have to know it. One day are you going to show us how you come to your conclusions? No pressure, koshi. Y'know. Do what you want....... A girl is allowed her secrets. Fair enough its your call.... I don't know how long you can keep jsut saying what you're reads are without explaining a single thing though. People are eventually gonna think you're mafia. The only way they possibly could not think that is by using..... Associative reads.
Lol they wont.
I am unlynchable if I am active.
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My guess is that koshi saved me and he's pretending I'm mafia to avoid suspicion.
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On May 24 2019 17:14 Holyflare wrote:I don't hate the artanis pressure but why is there no igrok pressure?
This thread knows better than to trust you.
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On May 24 2019 17:14 Holyflare wrote:I don't hate the artanis pressure but why is there no igrok pressure?
There probably will be. I've read what I've read so far and I haven't read iGrock properly. It'll happen before day 2 ends I promise you, but I'm not doing off the cuff scumhunting any more because I'm not very good at it, I need to prepare and read and get my facts straight and I'm a bit dumb so that takes time and effort.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/zCs9KrG.png)
