EPTOn May 24 2019 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ur doing God's work Jock don't you dare stop.
Ur doing God's work Jock don't you dare stop.
[M][N][72/24]Midnight Sun Mafia - Page 149
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On May 24 2019 01:12 Jockmcplop wrote: I don't wanna have to wait for you to seem like a townie. Remember Ruxxar. Ruxxar: HF looks scummy HF: you are right I am looking like that, but you are mafia for noticing. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On May 24 2019 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think Koshi is right. Per usual. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
Make a case on me. Convince people. Get some fire and burning passion against me going, make a wagon. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
Early D1 Mid D1 Late D1 TL;DR His read progression Early D1 iGrok began the game with the scummiest vote in the game to date. Do you remember why rayn was voted? Initially, for a fake case that led to actual scum reads being formed on his lack of response. After that was established and the initial votes were outlined to be purely pressure and not actually a case against rayn shortly after iGrok entered with: On May 19 2019 22:29 iGrok wrote: I think rayne got fucked by host, but I'm not going to not take advantage of it. I'm also going to be on a plane most of today. Probably different one than Artanis though lol ##vote: Raynpelikoneet This has later been stated to be a "fake vote" On May 22 2019 07:05 iGrok wrote: @HF I never voted for rayn. fake voted him in thread only, when he was making his silly fake role pm play But what did iGrok achieve with his fake vote? HF says VE's aggro on me is nonsense. Still votes for me, but his logic seems good The only thing we ever see related to his fake claim is in fact him saying my logic for voting him was good. Literally the only thing in the thread gained from the "joke vote" that garnered way more conversation than just me talking about it. He makes literally 2 summaries on VE and myself: On May 21 2019 15:03 iGrok wrote: Right now (~1/3 of the way through), mapping relationships and noting key moments. Shorthand on key moments from them - Conversion hasn't really said shit yet (remember, this isn't all the way caught up yet): Conv jokingly lynch HF HF Rayn is Mafia rayn is passive, therefore is mafia HF says VE's aggro on me is nonsense. Still votes for me, but his logic seems good keeps hammering on me calling rayn mafia, even though i'm not in the thread. honestly i'm an easy target because I've publicly stated I won't be in the thread Calix is scummy VE HF is overreacting Buuuut its ok to kill rayn rayn and wbg are unlynchable Rayn and WBG are unlynchable because they are read generating igrok is blue or red if rayn and wbg are both town, they wil shit up the thread trying to lynch each other. Its been years since i last played with them, but this tracks perfectly with my memory Point for VE Technically 3 because Conversion has 1 line. But then he wants Disfo and Rux lynched? On May 21 2019 15:46 iGrok wrote: still not caught up, but so far I want rux or disinfo lynched. For what? On May 22 2019 01:56 iGrok wrote: Frankly nothing that disinfo wrote stands out. I still don't have a single thing written down under "key moments" for them. Could be bored town, could be afk mafia, no idea. I think bugs made a pretty good case on rux in #1096. Also, I previously said to review #682 for rux. I meant to type #862, but it was 1am and I misread my own notes. Apologies. That they literally post boring things? No key moments? Could be bored town or afk mafia but he wants to lynch them?? So why, after he's posted 1 line about Conversion does he not feature in this random list of bs? On May 21 2019 16:58 iGrok wrote: alright guys its 1am and I have to be up at 5am for another all-day class. I'll be back before the vote, catch up, give my thoughts, and vote. next day cycle won't be like this, class finishes friday. And I guess I shouldn't really say class, its a programming seminar thats 12 hours/day. Go catch some scum for me lol. Most of my reads are there. Some hidden thought counts for future use: BC:1 WBG:2 HF:2 VE:4 Rux:1 Actually, I'll go ahead and open the rux thought up. Someone should review post #682. I honestly dont even remember what it was and I'm about to pass out, but I made a note to review it. No key moments for Ruxxar but he has a 1 in this hidden list of who knows what? For post 862 which is ????? Is Ruxxar mafia with no key moments but also because he's boring but also because bugs said so in a case against ruxxar at some point? This is inconsistent already. Mid D1 Calix read: On May 21 2019 16:31 iGrok wrote: Man, I'm out of practice. I really want to feel like calix is mafia, but I can tell if its because she is making bad aggro on me and I'm overreacting. It doesn't help that I have no idea how good/bad/experienced calix is. My initial key moments for her were: Calix HF / Jock good, rayn bad, wbg probably good - Not scummy? -Honestly really basic post. easy to make if less experienced scum it's just basic, why is that alignment specific??? Furthermore, a lot of Calix's few points highlight how townie she finds Jock - which iGrok scum reads me for scum reading Jock later so it's not even like he disagrees with this post stop calling me scum for sheeping, I'm gonna keep sheeping because reasons not scummy Its a fucking VE / rayn conspiracy makes no conclusion? Total reversal, VE/dis good, conv/rux bad why is this scummy??? BC is scummy because he's... drawing attention away from me... by bringing me up when other lurkers are being focused more? not sure what this even means but if it's referring to bc defending igrok then that's a perfectly valid point for calix to raise Only positive thing I know about calix right now is that I like her playstyle. Periodic summaries - its what I typically tried to do as well. But like I said, I'm self-aware enough to realize that I may just be reacting incorrectly. Thoughts? Just a summary but I broke it down quite well before. I'll add red above to show. The problem with iGrok's posts is he makes absolutely no valid conclusion to ANY of his posts. He posts a summary, with the conclusion above it but the conclusion doesn't add up with the highlighted summary posts in the slightest? Later he re-summarises why he scum reads Calix but he only added these points: Rux is maybe not scum because he is admitting to having trouble making reads and calix is also pushes rayn -#1247 honestly lots of true points about rayn but ones that I see as NAI because my memory of rayn's meta is palmar jr Ruxxar is maybe not scum (which iGrok actually ends up AGREEING WITH and petitioning against later in the thread (really loosely). Lots of true points about Rayn. How are ANY of these points adding up to Calix being MORE mafia than before? This is especially the case when he just randomly threw my name into being mafia and then essentially wrote a "case" for Calix and not me. The same happens with me when I essentially have to force him to commit to a read on me: On May 22 2019 01:02 iGrok wrote: Frankly the HF turn on Jock feels scummy, like pushing an easy lynch. Honestly HF's filter looks like trash, with one or two exceptions HF turn on Jock was based on an inconsistency that was dropped immediately when Jock appeared frustrated yet he is saying I ONLY started it when he became demotivated which is simply not the case. What is wrong with pushing an inconsistency anyway? Apparently it's only ever to gain momentum with me. So I pushed him to clarify and this is what he said: On May 22 2019 05:02 iGrok wrote: @HF Rayn when people were initially annoyed, VE for aggroing on me, Me (because I called rayn mafia, when you had done the same less than 6 hours prior), Calix before she started posting much and someone called her on a weak opening summary post, Ruxxar when he went on you, Jock when Jock first started to feel upset and say fuck it, BACK to VE and rayn, and now back to me I guess? You're all over the place and its always when someone looks like a potential D1 wagon. Seminar is back on, I'll check in a couple hours before the lynch. Don't be dumb, guys. I called him out on this and he complained: HF wants me to cite every action of his that I refer to and I'm simply not going to do that. The thread is too long and too dense. He's flipped aggro a bunch of times as I referred to previously, and almost always it was towards someone who was starting to get momentum towards them. but he finally did it after I forced him: On May 22 2019 05:02 iGrok wrote: @HF Rayn when people were initially annoyed, VE for aggroing on me, Me (because I called rayn mafia, when you had done the same less than 6 hours prior), Calix before she started posting much and someone called her on a weak opening summary post, Ruxxar when he went on you, Jock when Jock first started to feel upset and say fuck it, BACK to VE and rayn, and now back to me I guess? You're all over the place and its always when someone looks like a potential D1 wagon. Seminar is back on, I'll check in a couple hours before the lynch. Don't be dumb, guys. Notice especially the bold. Remember his earlier posts?? HF says VE's aggro on me is nonsense. Still votes for me, but his logic seems good He's using what he town read me for to now add to his scum read. My question was "who did I push when it looked like momentum was going for them?" His response was: Rayn: I STARTED the momentum against him!!!!!!! Himself: He AGREED with the logic I used and like, wtf, why do I care about when someone is afk and why would that stop me voting him? Calix out on her opening post NEVER EVER EVER happened. Ever. Ruxxar because I already explained, it was opportunistic etc. Lots of posts on it already, certainly no MOMENTUM against ruxxar that I was taking advantage of, just posting what I thought was scummy. Jock did not start to feel upset and then I took advantage, never happened. I found an inconsistency and then he started to feel bad and I stopped pressuring him completely when I realised the mistake and he explained. Back to VE and rayn????? ????????????? never??????? VE briefly for like 1/2 a second until his next post but I never forced that read or tried to gain momentum for that lynch It's all fabricated. Disformation also goes through it and confirms but he never updates that read at all, ever. I'm still mafia to him as far as I'm aware like 5 days later. Late D1 His reads are essentially myself or Calix. I BRIEFLY said Calix was mafia and never voted her which is apparently a next level play if we're both mafia or something but disfo points it out that me going for an easy lynch on Calix means it's unlikely we're mafia together iGrok has a revelation: On May 22 2019 06:43 iGrok wrote: Hmm... I didn't actually put together that HF going for ez lynch onto Calix makes it less likely for them both to be mafia. Good catch disinfo. ##unvote calix while processing But here's the thing: On May 22 2019 07:01 iGrok wrote: Yeah, not really sure what to do about this. I've got to decide if Calix is mafia and HF is dumbtown or vice versa Why does he have to decide if Calix is mafia and I'm dumb town or vice versa. If mafia never votes each other in that situation like he says and he has a big scum read on Calix for (I don't really even know why) then why am I not just town voting on mafia? This is a false dichotomy. Note the language. DUMB town. Why would it be DUMB town to vote on HIS MAFIA READ. It's quite literally the worst adjective to use in this situation: On May 22 2019 07:09 iGrok wrote: If you are going for an easy lynch on anyone you can, you are mafia. If you are mafia, and you try to push an easy lynch on calix, calix is not mafia. If you legit thought calix was mafia, so you tried to lynch him, you are town. Are you with me? Nothing explains why he used the word DUMB town. It should simply be town voting his mafia read but he specifically included that word, imo by mistake. He's trying to downplay it quite conveniently in case it all goes wrong. "Oh, hf was just a dumb town voting calix after all, how was I supposed to know when he played like mafia?". Now, the meat and potatoes of it all, his voting!! On May 22 2019 06:50 Grackaroni wrote: Day One Vote Count Calix (2): Raynpelikoneet (2): iGrok (2): BloodyC0bbler(2): Artanis[Xp], Disformation RuXxar (1): Holyflare (1): Koshi(1): Conversion Artanis[Xp](1): BloodyC0bbler VisceraEyes (0): Jockmcplop (0): Disformation (0): Wherebugsgo (0): conversion(0): Not voting (1): iGrok BloodyC0bbler is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Wednesday, May 22 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in This is what the lynch list looks like just before iGrok votes at May 21 2019 22:29 BST above ^ This is what it looks like after he votes AND UNVOTES (unvotes 21 2019 22:44 BST): On May 22 2019 06:50 Grackaroni wrote: Day One Vote Count Calix (2): Raynpelikoneet (2): iGrok (2): BloodyC0bbler(2): Artanis[Xp], Disformation RuXxar (1): Holyflare (1): Koshi(1): Conversion Artanis[Xp](1): BloodyC0bbler VisceraEyes (0): Jockmcplop (0): Disformation (0): Wherebugsgo (0): conversion(0): Not voting (1): iGrok Calix is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Wednesday, May 22 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in This is during the chain of events where disfo is saying calix and I can't be mafia together: On May 22 2019 06:29 iGrok wrote: I'm actually getting invested in this game now. I should really be focusing on this seminar but like... I'm getting pulled back in. I still think Calix is the best d1 lynch. On May 22 2019 06:43 iGrok wrote: Hmm... I didn't actually put together that HF going for ez lynch onto Calix makes it less likely for them both to be mafia. Good catch disinfo. ##unvote calix while processing This has already put Calix in the lead. There's a lot of back and forth between me and him arguing points while this is what he's saying to Calix: On May 22 2019 08:35 iGrok wrote: @Calix, you obviously can't read me or don't want to. You're throwing a bunch of extra implications into my statement. "If it comes down to myself, bc, or rux, I will obviously vote rux." does not mean "I want to vote rux". Give me a fucking break. I took my vote off you despite knowing that my having put the earlier vote on you would probably be the tiebreaker for the lynch. I did this because I'm just trying to figure the game out, realized I had made a mistake, and fucking owned up to it instead of rolling on ahead ignoring everyone else. That being said, I'm not a village idiot, I don't want to die today, and I know that I'm at least as likely to be town as BC/Rux because, from my perspective, I'm 100% town. So if that's what it comes down to, yeah I'll vote for either of them in a heartbeat. Calix is putting words in his mouth, manipulating his statements. On May 22 2019 09:50 iGrok wrote: Still not sure between you and HF, but one of you is scum. Alternatively, HF made a +2 level play and you both are, but that’s... unlikely. Josh I, Convo, disinformation, and rayn are pretty green. I think disinfo is just going with ruxxar to get something done, and the other three votes on him are mixed signals at best. And while I did initially have ruxxar as red, he did make a good post that put him back to null for me. So I’m ok with ruxxar but I’d still rather have a better target if I can. Outside of you and HF, Artanis is my next lowest read right now, but I don’t think that’s likely to happen. Anyone who thinks it could though, speak up and let’s talk about it He still fucking reads BOTH me and Calix mafia but only one of us is!!!!!!! Why isn't he trying to figure out any of this shit???? Then he goes on to make some "this is why I think holyflare over RUXXAR" who literally just gained votes and I can't even comprehend the logic stuff he uses. He went through Ruxxar's filter, determined he was town then used a logic puzzle to theorise that if there's mafia between calix, ruxxar or hf then hf has to be scum because the others wouldn't bus. Ok, it's absolutely terrible logic because doesn't assume he could be wrong on any of us WHICH HE ACKNOWLEDGES HE'S ALREADY WRONG ON AT LEAST ONE. HE DECIDES I'M THEN SCUMMY BUT STILL SAYS WE'RE BOTH SCUMMY: On May 22 2019 10:41 iGrok wrote: Lol, Calix and HF on "INDEPENDENT TERMS" are red. The weakest of those assertions is the Calix/HF one, because HF switched off calix fairly quickly. Why you're attacking the ruxx/hf assertion doesn't make sense. In your words, "Come the fuck on". Ruxxar's filter is filled with brief periods of activity which go like this: "I'm back, here's a quick summary, some filler posts, bye". H's acting like a dude who doesn't have a whole lot of time to put into writing up stuff, but he is clearly reading based on his quotes in his posts. Not everyone spams like You, HF, Koshi, or VE. So why the fuck did he end up voting me!!!!!!!!!! On May 22 2019 06:41 iGrok wrote: Because I don't think I can get HF lynched. He legitimately spends from 2:16 BST to 3:16 BST AN ENTIRE HOUR talking about logic and NOT DEFENDING RUXXAR OR MAKING A COUNTER WAGON TO STOP HIM DYING even though he logiced that ruxxar MUST be town out of the three of me/calix and votes for me over calix! then berates bugs for the lynch! On May 22 2019 12:28 iGrok wrote: fuck you bugs, you know I was right He's posted nothing of note but excuses, little side comments and afking since this post almost 2 real life days ago. Where's his head at? Why not a single update? No vote? Demotivation from no nk? Who knows. TL;DR His early game reads are inconsistent at best. Ruxxar and disformation appear out of nowhere but even those reads don't add up. Missing other players that have done the exact same things (Conversion). His Ruxxar read is reportedly mafia OR bored town for being boring and doing nothing but he has actual points on Ruxxar and says bugs case against ruxxar was good. So, it's not just that ruxxar was boring is it? His Calix read and all of his reads really, are just summaries. Nothing he says about Calix adds up to a scum read, especially the strong one he has. He adds points later to Calix that are actually things he agrees with Calix on so why does it get STRONGER after he adds those???? His read on me is so unbelievably incorrect. When questioned I forced him to provide examples and he got called out for them being wrong but when proven wrong he ignores it and still pushes the incorrect logic. He unvoted Calix when disfo said why did hf vote calix if they're both mafia like it was some revelation (but I didn't really even ever vote her so we both could easily be mafia??) but he never really summarises this correctly. He unvoted Calix but still called her mafia, said he would never be able to lynch me, suddenly town read Ruxxar when he was up for lynch and instead of trying to stop the wagon he argued about logic of why I was mafia out of the 3 for an hour and berated bugs for ruxxar dying and being town when he did nothing to stop it and even saved his scum read in the process. He's afkd forever (allegedly will change from Friday on so excited to see what fire he brings that isn't myself or Calix). Result: [red]Mafia[red] Please vote, lynch with fire. Alternatively, give him till Friday when he returns and quiz the shit out of him then realise your mistake and lynch him anyway. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On May 22 2019 08:54 Grackaroni wrote: Day One Vote Count RuXxar (4): Calix (2): BloodyC0bbler(1): Artanis[Xp], iGrok (1): Raynpelikoneet (1): Holyflare (1): Koshi(1): Conversion Artanis[Xp](1): BloodyC0bbler VisceraEyes (0): Jockmcplop (0): Disformation (0): Wherebugsgo (0): conversion(0): Not voting (1): iGrok RuXxar is currently set to be lynched. Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Wednesday, May 22 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in This is the vote count by the way just before igrok votes me and conversion then votes ruxxar a lot later. Calix was at 2 votes, ruxxar 4 (but ruxxar wasn't voting Calix). If iGrok voted for his scum read, Calix and ruxxar voted to save himself all it would have taken was either 1 voter to hop on or 1 to switch and ruxxar is safe. Not once did iGrok care about that but then he still berated town afterwards for lynching Ruxxar? That's a big stretch there. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Also I felt a lot of deja vu reading your response to Jock and me calling you out for surface level things last game. I realized I was getting very close to calling you scum yesterday for the exact same reasons I called you scum last game (and I believe you noted this during the night, you know the post I'm talking about even if I don't point it out explicitly), and then I held my tongue because of the way you actually agreed with my assessment but flipped town anyway LOL. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On May 24 2019 10:46 iGrok wrote: Honestly, I'm impressed with the effort that went into that. Good job. Any time you want to share your opinions with the class I'm sure we'll be listening intently! | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On May 24 2019 10:49 Holyflare wrote: Any time you want to share your opinions with the class I'm sure we'll be listening intently! I just got back from dinner, always check the most recent page before going back to review  | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On May 24 2019 10:41 wherebugsgo wrote: HF see my last post and 2565 and get back to me. Before you ask though, I fully intend to remain a pretty passive observer for the next 24-36 hours even though I've now tried to influence the lynch. Also curious to know what you think of rayn and koshi here, because I still haven't really bothered to read them and am curious where their votes will land by EOD. Also I felt a lot of deja vu reading your response to Jock and me calling you out for surface level things last game. I realized I was getting very close to calling you scum yesterday for the exact same reasons I called you scum last game (and I believe you noted this during the night, you know the post I'm talking about even if I don't point it out explicitly), and then I held my tongue because of the way you actually agreed with my assessment but flipped town anyway LOL. I have literally no idea what your little game is in those two posts but I don't think I really care either? I'm just going to put the effort in to people's filters and figure this out for myself now that I have the time. Half the people in the game are literally afk and leaving it stale, you included really. Disfo/Conversion/Jock are like MVPs for today and I don't think I'd ever vote them for the rest of the game. Chuck VE in there too and they are my new town circle. Everyone else is fair game in my books now. Starting a clean slate. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On May 24 2019 10:52 iGrok wrote: I just got back from dinner, always check the most recent page before going back to review Before you do that, do you mind telling me who your mafia reads were just after ruxxar flipped town? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 24 2019 10:53 Holyflare wrote: I have literally no idea what your little game is in those two posts but I don't think I really care either? I'm just going to put the effort in to people's filters and figure this out for myself now that I have the time. Half the people in the game are literally afk and leaving it stale, you included really. Disfo/Conversion/Jock are like MVPs for today and I don't think I'd ever vote them for the rest of the game. Chuck VE in there too and they are my new town circle. Everyone else is fair game in my books now. Starting a clean slate. It's fine, if you don't have the time for it now I'll end up explaining it all later today anyway. You can put the pieces together at that point by reading my filter once rather than multiple times so it'll save you some effort. I'm AFK on purpose, and honestly I'm very happy with it because I'm way less tilted and I feel very confident that this game is on lock right now. Your town circle basically my town circle and it should be obvious after reading my posts where we differ. That's really why I want you to listen to what I'm saying and come to your own conclusions before I explain myself, and also get back to me on rayn/Koshi because I believe I'm seeing more to the day 1 vote business. I fully believe we're seeing the same picture, just different parts of it, and I don't want to heavily influence your opinions before I hear them. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 24 2019 11:01 Holyflare wrote: Is it some old vet thing to for some reason not play open handed and actually reveal your reads or some shit? Seems like really bad practice to me, just say what you mean and we'd all be in a better place. I think it was far more common back in the day among the players I consider really really really good at town. Like, the top two townies I've ever played with, in my opinion, are Foolishness and Radfield, and Foolishness posts so little that he often becomes lynchbait. I talked with him before because I wanted to learn his philosophy and how he's so good, and so confident when he has a read, and IIRC he told me about how he wouldn't push his ideas until he'd had a lot of time to read, and because he often couldn't tell by EOD1 he'd just sit back and wait and watch interactions. Eagle-eyed townies would be able to engage with him (because he'd channel Chezinu sometimes, and observant townies could tell, I guess, he's on their side) and if scum didn't kill him N1 he'd often have at least one certain read on d2. I struggle with this because unlike Foolishness my scum game has a reputation for being good (and my town game, rightly, a reputation for being ass), and people think my style is very unique so they'll lynch me if I don't play actively. When I play town I value being viewed as innocent and not getting lynched way more than I value finding scum. This is also why I've smurfed so damn much; I've made so many smurfs that I've forgotten some of their names and emails, but basically I smurf to try and emulate different playstyles and see how they work for me without getting lynched for playing out of band. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I noticed that when I play scum I have an irrational fear of being vigged but absolutely no fear of being lynched. Then when I get lynched I end up reactionarily blaming my teammates because I couldn't carry them, even in situations where I probably screwed up interacting with them in a subtle way or I suggested a weird NK because I'm whacky and I don't believe NK choices are all that important when playing scum. However I think I've been vigged/SK killed like 2-3 times, at least once by a person I thought was a shitter and once in a game called Responsibility Mafia that I'll never forget where I got shot by a "spam vigi" and raged about 1. how subjective that is for the hosts to be the final determiners and 2. how many god damn KP town had in postgame. OTOH as town I don't have any fear of being vigged at all but I have a supreme fear of being lynched for whatever reason. I think I've been vigged once when I was a JK on N1, I only remember because of how rarely I roll blue roles. I think I've been lynched once or twice for dumb reasons and I got into arguments with Palmar about how I don't believe that being lynched is always 100% without a doubt the fault of the person being lynched. Anyway none of this probably means anything but maybe that gives you more insight on my philosophy of the way I play. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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