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On May 22 2019 10:21 iGrok wrote:
Seriously, I think the logic there is pretty straightforward, but to reiterate:
Calix and Ruxx are not both mafia, because mafia would not bus a teammate when the votes are close like this.
Ruxx and HF aren't both mafia because Ruxxar called HF on some shit that most other people didn't, it was a weird attack when HF was not seeing any real pressure.
Calix and HF aren't both mafia because HF looked like he was trying to set up a wagon on Calix earlier.
so what this means is:
If you think that any one of HF, Calix, or Ruxx are mafia, it has to be HF
@Calix if you can find a flaw in this please let me know.
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On May 22 2019 10:25 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 10:21 iGrok wrote:
Seriously, I think the logic there is pretty straightforward, but to reiterate:
Calix and Ruxx are not both mafia, because mafia would not bus a teammate when the votes are close like this.
Ruxx and HF aren't both mafia because Ruxxar called HF on some shit that most other people didn't, it was a weird attack when HF was not seeing any real pressure.
Calix and HF aren't both mafia because HF looked like he was trying to set up a wagon on Calix earlier.
so what this means is:
If you think that any one of HF, Calix, or Ruxx are mafia, it has to be HF
@Calix if you can find a flaw in this please let me know.
aren't these points sort of WIFOM-y because mafia cna totally do this if they feel like they're safe enough to do some to try and gain some town cred? or is that too stupid pants-on-head for mafia to do (and thus your reasoning)
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Like, in a town as disorganized as this it just doesn't benefit them at all. The votes are all spread out so they can manipulate who gets lynched with only one member changing their vote. Its just not worth the risk of accidentally fucking your teammate.
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Well, one member changing to the person they want, and one member changing off of the person who was in the lead before.
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On May 22 2019 10:25 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 10:21 iGrok wrote:
Seriously, I think the logic there is pretty straightforward, but to reiterate:
Calix and Ruxx are not both mafia, because mafia would not bus a teammate when the votes are close like this.
Ruxx and HF aren't both mafia because Ruxxar called HF on some shit that most other people didn't, it was a weird attack when HF was not seeing any real pressure.
Calix and HF aren't both mafia because HF looked like he was trying to set up a wagon on Calix earlier.
so what this means is:
If you think that any one of HF, Calix, or Ruxx are mafia, it has to be HF
@Calix if you can find a flaw in this please let me know.
This is so stupid
Like anyone can come and pick 3 names at random and assert one of them has to be scum and then twist the logic to say one specific person out of those 3 has to be scum based on the associations solely between those 3. This is why we don’t do associations preflip.
You have no evidence for why it’s towny to attack a random person with no progression nor follow up on that read whatsoever. In fact, the moment you find a single scum who would do that, it negates this argument entirely.
Also, this association business throws away mountains of evidence that both Calix and HF ON INDEPENDENT TERMS are town. Who the fuck cares if ruxxar threw one post on HF and then walked away, never pushing it, never following up, never responding to any questions?? If he’s scum he could have literally picked any name in the entire list of active players and written about the same thing.
If you don’t believe me, look at how VE has been saying I’m making up narratives. I’m clearly not, I know I’m town. VE saying this says nothing about his alignment and neither should what ruxxar said about HF say anything about his.
What matters is what ruxxar did before and after, and what his motivation was. There is no town motivation for throwing out that read, fucking off without pushing it, wasting the vote, and staying out of the thread DURING EU HOURS when the game was the most active.
Literally, he complained about the game being too active, and you want to kill HF who is one of the few players who has been around and actually done things in this game. Come the fuck on
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er, wait let me think your logic out
you're basically saying this:
[NOT (Calix AND Ruxxar)] AND [NOT (Ruxxar AND Holyflare)] AND [NOT (Calix AND Holyflare)]
which actually means when Calix, Ruxxar and TOWN (aka True), and Holyflare is MAFIA (aka False),
your logic table evaluates to
[NOT (True AND True)] AND [NOT (True AND False)] AND [NOT (True AND False)]
[NOT True] AND [NOT False] AND [NOT False]
False AND True AND True == False?
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the only times that logic table works out is if two or all three are mafia within it, so I think your logic is a little off
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Lol, Calix and HF on "INDEPENDENT TERMS" are red.
The weakest of those assertions is the Calix/HF one, because HF switched off calix fairly quickly. Why you're attacking the ruxx/hf assertion doesn't make sense. In your words, "Come the fuck on".
Ruxxar's filter is filled with brief periods of activity which go like this: "I'm back, here's a quick summary, some filler posts, bye". H's acting like a dude who doesn't have a whole lot of time to put into writing up stuff, but he is clearly reading based on his quotes in his posts. Not everyone spams like You, HF, Koshi, or VE.
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By the way, I can say with utmost confidence that I as scum would pull a vote like that. I’ve done it before too, I’ll pick a random town leader and vote them fully knowing there is no chance that person ever dies, and no one else would be willing to push that person. And I sandbag it because I know I’m scum and I’m not going to bother actively getting that person lynched unless people jubjub and bandwagon it, in which case I’m in the clear anyway because I’m the first person on the wagon and clearly not a dumb sheep. I’ll still be around and pull threads but it’s only if people call me out that I’d actually push reads as scum.
You know why that is? Because it’s super fucking easy to come in and shit on people for being wrong when you’re scum and you can do whatever you want.
ruxxar is a pretty good scum player as well, btw. He is extremely slippery and at least in the games I’ve checked he’s never been lynched. His posting cadence also matches with his scum game-as town he posts large bursts of one liners and constantly follows up on things and tries to figure things out. As scum he fucks off for hours on end and occasionally will post large walls of text or push a random nitpick with no follow up later.
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On May 22 2019 10:41 iGrok wrote:
Lol, Calix and HF on "INDEPENDENT TERMS" are red.
The weakest of those assertions is the Calix/HF one, because HF switched off calix fairly quickly. Why you're attacking the ruxx/hf assertion doesn't make sense. In your words, "Come the fuck on".
Ruxxar's filter is filled with brief periods of activity which go like this: "I'm back, here's a quick summary, some filler posts, bye". H's acting like a dude who doesn't have a whole lot of time to put into writing up stuff, but he is clearly reading based on his quotes in his posts. Not everyone spams like You, HF, Koshi, or VE.
Look if you want to put effort into reading ruxxar then go see some of his past games and come up with an example where he actually does this as town.
Like I fucking guarantee that you will never find an example of a town game where he dumps three or four massive posts with literally 0 follow up.
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On May 22 2019 10:39 Conversion wrote:
the only times that logic table works out is if two or all three are mafia within it, so I think your logic is a little off
er, specifically the pairings are, if not all 3 mafia:
ruxxar/holyflare
calix/holyflare
calix/ruxxar
maybe I'm being too literal with this
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@ convo you mixed up your table
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C OR R==TOWN
C OR H==TOWN
H OR R==TOWN
C AND H AND R==MAFIA
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Shit, now I'm messing it up too lol
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C OR R==TOWN
C OR H==TOWN
H OR R==TOWN
R != H
C AND H AND R==MAFIA
Forgot that part
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c OR r == town, so one of c OR r has to be town or both has to be town
c OR h == town, so one of c OR h has to be town or both has to be town
h OR r == town, so one of c OR h has to be town or both has to be town
r != h, so in the case of H or R, one must be town, one must be mafia
c AND h AND r == mafia, so this means all 3 must be mafia, otherwise this statement doesn't work?
ok I'm spending too much time on this. I'm missing something, though. going to spend my last 30ish minutes meta diving ruxxar. bugs is one of my top town reads atm so I'll listen to him
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C AND H AND R = FALSE just means that one of them must be false.
1 & 0 = 0
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d'oh.
I just meta-dived ruxxar and he plays really fluid, jokes around a lot as town.
his mafia games are like 4+ years old, though, and not sure if they should really count as much here (couldn't find any more recent games)
but you're right in the fact that nothing about his game here resembles the town games I read meta wise.
in terms of reads, my brain is fried (as evidenced by fucking up a simple logic table up ^^^ there), and I think I'm inclined to believe bugs.. I think disfo is in a pretty non-safe spot going on this ruxxar lynch here as well, so ruxxar flipping mafia doesn't give him too much cred. I don't really buy any of Koshi's reads, and him dodging me and not calling me scum is pretty fuckin' weird cause I'm not really playing any differently than I have in the games we've played together. m
If ruxxar flips mafia though Koshi is never, ever, 100% never ever mafia.
and now I'm sleepy and lost 90 minutes of s tudying for an interview so I'm peacing out. gl hf, see y'all after like 4 PM est for a bit before I fly out
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On May 22 2019 11:24 Conversion wrote:
d'oh.
I just meta-dived ruxxar and he plays really fluid, jokes around a lot as town.
his mafia games are like 4+ years old, though, and not sure if they should really count as much here (couldn't find any more recent games)
but you're right in the fact that nothing about his game here resembles the town games I read meta wise.
in terms of reads, my brain is fried (as evidenced by fucking up a simple logic table up ^^^ there), and I think I'm inclined to believe bugs.. I think disfo is in a pretty non-safe spot going on this ruxxar lynch here as well, so ruxxar flipping mafia doesn't give him too much cred. I don't really buy any of Koshi's reads, and him dodging me and not calling me scum is pretty fuckin' weird cause I'm not really playing any differently than I have in the games we've played together. m
If ruxxar flips mafia though Koshi is never, ever, 100% never ever mafia.
and now I'm sleepy and lost 90 minutes of s tudying for an interview so I'm peacing out. gl hf, see y'all after like 4 PM est for a bit before I fly out
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uJk01CI.gif)
I didn't read too much into his scum games either other than the timings of his posts because I don't think the content would be indicative if he's a good scum player, which I think on a results basis, he is.
It's really hard to nail someone who never gets lynched as scum because their play will basically be guaranteed to have lots of town tells in it, and meta reading them by reading their scum games is a crapshoot. On the other hand, if you can find something that they do that they literally never do as town, and it's on core behaviour that's integral to scum hunting (aka followups, conversational play) I think that's good enough.
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alright, I'm getting lunch so I don't have a heart attack on the flip. Leaving my phone at my desk as well to avoid the temptation.
ruxxar is the best lynch we've got. Look in my filter if you feel doubts, or look at his town game and compare here. If anyone who doesn't want to vote him can find an example from his town games where he posts some massive read posts, unprompted, with no followup, and then fucks off for hours and hours on end, I will forgive you for not voting him, even if he goes unflipped (i.e. you all decide to kill someone else in the next 20 minutes while I'm gone on the shennaniest of last minute shenannies)
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EPT
