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On May 04 2019 08:39 Holyflare wrote:
Everyone realises it but everyone has been burnt by bussing before. It's a futile exercise, especially when I can almost guarantee the first post in the mafia qt is vivax telling his team to bus him.
You asking for all the cred is bad.
Your post after the day post basically screaming for cred didn't help, looked pretty fake.
Your lack of night activity because it was oh so obvious you wouldn't die and you'd do it tomorrow into nothing looks bad.
Your d1 avoiding jock looked bad.
Your 0 real scum reads is bad.
More content will eclipse those points potentially eventually but you have to start somewhere. VE is being an absolute gentleman trying to help.
I mean this stuff is not important but if anyone is to credit for the near-Vivax lynch it is me. That's just a fact.
I'll ignore the night activity stuff, yeah it sucks but I'm in the MIddle East working 12 hour days and I get busy sometimes. Even now it's 3AM and I'm staying up just so I can be active and post some and try to contribute.
And my only strong scum read up to this point was in fact... scum. So I'll be happy with that 
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On May 03 2019 04:42 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2019 07:14 Holyflare wrote:On May 02 2019 03:16 Pandain wrote:On May 02 2019 02:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 02 2019 00:44 Pandain wrote: FIXED POST I am confused about why Jock suddenly became an asshole in this thread when the last two games he was super nice and if anything apologetic. Also his blogs are fun to read so I'm sort of shocked. I don't think he's a bad lynch and might switch to him if the votes are close. Also this is concerning: On May 01 2019 11:23 Jockmcplop wrote: On May 01 2019 10:35 wherebugsgo wrote: On May 01 2019 10:29 Jockmcplop wrote: On May 01 2019 08:54 Holyflare wrote:
Oh well nothing more to add really. I think jock is way out of character and the town read(s) are pretty unjustified here. Out of character compared to when I was mafia? You gonna ignore my previous post? You should answer this, and don't even think about skipping any of the questions: Can you define what makes people suspicious? What types of things are suspicious and why would they be indicators someone is mafia instead of town?
Have you read Incognito's guide? What do you think your #1 priority should be if you are a townie? Regardless of your alignment, at your current rate, you should know you're going to be dead. In addition to that, let's see your reads. #1 priority as town for me is finding scum. And then proceedes to be super lukewarm about scum reads and doesn't scumhunt at all. You really think mafia claims this and then does the complete opposite? You'd need to be really dumb if you didn't realise this is exactly where it gets you and i wouldn't say that's a really good strategy. But it's okay, maybe the 70% of the game can talk about something else after D1 since you're gonna have your lynch. Mafia literally does it all the time. It's precisely inherently mafia to say good things and then not do them or follow them On May 02 2019 03:18 Pandain wrote:
Also more importantly it's not a dumb silly contradiction that could be overlooked. It's a mindset contradiction On May 02 2019 03:18 Pandain wrote:
I mean he could be town perhaps even likely. Im not even voting him. But it's day 1 so do what you do On May 02 2019 03:37 Pandain wrote:
Why are you not against the lynch when you said there was only a five percent chance he's scum On May 02 2019 03:38 Pandain wrote:
That makes no sense and is super scummy regardless of jocks alignment On May 02 2019 04:01 Pandain wrote:
If you think there's almost no chance someone is scum why are you perfectly okay with his lynch This guy is suspect numero uno. Anybody that uses the phrase "that's scummy regardless of Jock's alignment" is a guy that has tmi and makes it want to look like he's weighing up his options. Let us also not forget that he agreed with all the points on Jock, fought against rayn that jock looked scummy, said rayn was scummy for not trying to save his town read and then dropped it all to try and shenanigan with rayn. Let us also not forget that Pandain wanted to lynch rels (based on incorrect meta that was highlighted several times already) despite a wagon building on Jock, his also scum read, to make rels active again. Then when that didn't take off, Pandain, master of misdirection, avoided joining the jock wagon (his scum read) again for terrible shenanigans. Then when Jock, his scum read, flipped town (after pandain said he's probably town for no discernable reason why arguing that he was still mafia) Pandain decides to call the entire wagon on Jock, his scum read, and also maybe town read, mafia. No thanks. You mafia mate. Lynch Pandain when I'm gone. Decent argument but unfortunately it fails to keep in mind one key thing. It's day 1, and any of my reads are weak. So yes, I agreed with Jock playing weird and even suspiciously. I stated as such and even stated that I don't think he was a bad lynch. But that doesn't mean I was completely or even [b] mostly [b] convinced he was mafia. And when you're saying that I was trying to get Rels lynched despite being suspicious of jock, you totally fail to fucking realize I was more suspicious of rels than jock, so your whole argument is moot because I wanted to lynch someone who I thought was more suspicious. So when I switched to someone rayn pointed out was actually a good chance of being mafia , vivax, of course I finally switched and stayed. But especially as he didn't post at all by the end of the day, which is very different than just lurking for mosting of it, I didn't really feel confident with him either and that would just be a chance lynch. And I grew more convinced Jock was town near the end because of the complete lack of activity (there was only me and grack and rayn for the last hour), which doesn't seem like it would be likely if jock was mafia.
@HF I'm going to repost this for you re: jock since you either missed it or never responded to it.
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Decent argument but unfortunately it fails to keep in mind one key thing. It's day 1, and any of my reads are weak. So yes, I agreed with Jock playing weird and even suspiciously. I stated as such and even stated that I don't think he was a bad lynch. But that doesn't mean I was completely or even [b] mostly [b] convinced he was mafia. And when you're saying that I was trying to get Rels lynched despite being suspicious of jock, you totally fail to fucking realize I was more suspicious of rels than jock, so your whole argument is moot because I wanted to lynch someone who I thought was more suspicious.
So when I switched to someone rayn pointed out was actually a good chance of being mafia , vivax, of course I finally switched and stayed.
But especially as he didn't post at all by the end of the day, which is very different than just lurking for mosting of it, I didn't really feel confident with him either and that would just be a chance lynch. And I grew more convinced Jock was town near the end because of the complete lack of activity (there was only me and grack and rayn for the last hour), which doesn't seem like it would be likely if jock was mafia.
By the way I realize the phrasing is awkward here, the bolded red statement refers to rels and not to vivax.
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On May 04 2019 09:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
Pandain why did you think Vivax was scum?
On May 02 2019 04:52 Pandain wrote:
Vivax is a great lynch. He's always obvious town when he's town and super active. Compare that with this game where it is not obvious at all and he's barely contributed (but enough to "pass")
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On May 04 2019 09:12 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2019 08:49 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 08:45 Holyflare wrote:On May 04 2019 07:56 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 07:54 Alakaslam wrote:On May 04 2019 07:53 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 01:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's a Jeep tell from MafiaScum, I'm sure I've explained it in your presence before.
Players who do things like congratulate the doctor on a successful save tend to be mafia. What Pandain is like the reverse of it, try to appear town by talking about how much it would suck to be mafia after the GF got killed. This is a horrible "tell" . Also it would suck to be mafia. Like I would be beyond pissed if I was mafia, especially if HF is actually cop and checked bugs (which I 100% doubt because Bugs seems super super town to me) how many mafia are left It's a good question. I can't help but think Doc actually saved someone or a vet got shot, because let's realize that only one person died. And I think it would be super weird for mafia to have 1kp. Anyway that doesn't answer your question. If I had to guess 2 more? Wtf kind of theory is this by the way? Where does it say anything about any kind of extra mafia kp role in op? Are you trying really badly to fake a dumb tell? I even had to read the op to make sure. I hooe you're impressed. No my point is that only one person died. So are we just assuming that mafia has one kp? Probably not, then town would be hugely advantaged. So the fact that only one person died suggests there was a medic save or a vet got shot. What games have you played in when mafia have more than 1kp in a normal sized game?
Ok I was just going off the top of my head, I'm not an expert on balance. 1KP just seemed low compared to the 2KP last game and 3KPin end of the world mafia.
Honestly if you both want to lynch me because I miscaculated what KP should be off the top of my head go ahead. Going for these "gotcha" moments instead of actual scumhunting is one of the reasons why the town play on these forums tends to be pretty low.
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On May 04 2019 09:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
Pandain what do you think of MZ, given that you think BC is scum? Who would you lynch today?
If you have notes on the game, now’s the time..
Dude my thoughts on MZ are literally in the same post, what are you even thinking. And I literally voted dude.
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I was just thinking mafia had 2 blanket kp every round.
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On May 04 2019 09:34 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2019 09:32 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 09:12 Holyflare wrote:On May 04 2019 08:49 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 08:45 Holyflare wrote:On May 04 2019 07:56 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 07:54 Alakaslam wrote:On May 04 2019 07:53 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 01:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's a Jeep tell from MafiaScum, I'm sure I've explained it in your presence before.
Players who do things like congratulate the doctor on a successful save tend to be mafia. What Pandain is like the reverse of it, try to appear town by talking about how much it would suck to be mafia after the GF got killed. This is a horrible "tell" . Also it would suck to be mafia. Like I would be beyond pissed if I was mafia, especially if HF is actually cop and checked bugs (which I 100% doubt because Bugs seems super super town to me) how many mafia are left It's a good question. I can't help but think Doc actually saved someone or a vet got shot, because let's realize that only one person died. And I think it would be super weird for mafia to have 1kp. Anyway that doesn't answer your question. If I had to guess 2 more? Wtf kind of theory is this by the way? Where does it say anything about any kind of extra mafia kp role in op? Are you trying really badly to fake a dumb tell? I even had to read the op to make sure. I hooe you're impressed. No my point is that only one person died. So are we just assuming that mafia has one kp? Probably not, then town would be hugely advantaged. So the fact that only one person died suggests there was a medic save or a vet got shot. What games have you played in when mafia have more than 1kp in a normal sized game? Ok I was just going off the top of my head, I'm not an expert on balance. 1KP just seemed low compared to the 2KP last game and 3KPin end of the world mafia. Honestly if you both want to lynch me because I miscaculated what KP should be off the top of my head go ahead. Going for these "gotcha" moments instead of actual scumhunting is one of the reasons why the town play on these forums tends to be pretty low. Way to trivialise it. This is just one of many points against.
The only okay points are lack of activity night one and fake inconsistencies regarding Jock, which I addressed and you never responded to. It absolutely was not inconsistent at all.
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On May 04 2019 09:39 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2019 09:32 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 09:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
Pandain what do you think of MZ, given that you think BC is scum? Who would you lynch today?
If you have notes on the game, now’s the time.. Dude my thoughts on MZ are literally in the same post, what are you even thinking. And I literally voted dude. I’m asking you to resynthesize. idgaf if you posted something before, and I don’t care much that you voted either. If you believe BC is scum why aren’t you trying to convince others to join you?
I don't have unlimited time to play this game. In fact to the contrary, I usually have very limited time. It's why I prioritize and choose useful times I can post (and the main reason I was okay playing a bad n1, since I was unlikely to die). If you want me to restate things becuase you hope to catch me contradicting me previously, than you should realize I can just look at previous posts and make sure that happens. Conversely, if I'm town, what I say shouldn't be different anwyay.
And who I want to lynch is probably who I voted...
And I made like 3-4 posts, no one even responded. At this point it's clear people have made up their mind one way or the other. I don't have anything new to add, I might switch to a MZ counterwagon if it's the only way to save myself. Maybe if I had a free day tomorrow I would spam post to save myself, but unfortunately I don't.
The only closing words I'll say to townies is even if you're pretty sure I'm mafia, look at other people. And hopefully you realize that at least I shouldn't be lynched "today"
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and make sure that doesn't happen* I'm not going to repeat things when it doesn't serve a purpose
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On May 04 2019 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2019 09:44 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 09:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 04 2019 09:32 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 09:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
Pandain what do you think of MZ, given that you think BC is scum? Who would you lynch today?
If you have notes on the game, now’s the time.. Dude my thoughts on MZ are literally in the same post, what are you even thinking. And I literally voted dude. I’m asking you to resynthesize. idgaf if you posted something before, and I don’t care much that you voted either. If you believe BC is scum why aren’t you trying to convince others to join you? I don't have unlimited time to play this game. In fact to the contrary, I usually have very limited time. It's why I prioritize and choose useful times I can post (and the main reason I was okay playing a bad n1, since I was unlikely to die). If you want me to restate things becuase you hope to catch me contradicting me previously, than you should realize I can just look at previous posts and make sure that happens. Conversely, if I'm town, what I say shouldn't be different anwyay. And who I want to lynch is probably who I voted... And I made like 3-4 posts, no one even responded. At this point it's clear people have made up their mind one way or the other. I don't have anything new to add, I might switch to a MZ counterwagon if it's the only way to save myself. Maybe if I had a free day tomorrow I would spam post to save myself, but unfortunately I don't. The only closing words I'll say to townies is even if you're pretty sure I'm mafia, look at other people. And hopefully you realize that at least I shouldn't be lynched "today" You don’t have that much time so you spend a bunch of time speculating about kp and posting this drivel instead of just explaining your read further? Can you point me to the posts you made which you think no one responded to?
I made a post off the cuff about kp that happened to be wrong and then got called out. It is what it is.
At the time it was the BC post, no one commented about it at all outside of a joke post by VE, now I see some comments which is good. I don't have much to add, you can agree with it or not.
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To summarize me on Jock:
I thought he was an okay lynch for day 1, not great but decent for day1. I was lukewarm about him and had more a gut read on rels (although that vibe more disappeared when it became clear rels was not lurking but just genuinely afk). At end of day, I became concerned with the complete lack or drive attempts away from jock which suggested to me he's town. I tried to switch to rels (who I was still not sold on but viewed it like an RNG lynch because he was essentially inactive) , but Rayn would only be down for vivax or bugs. I realized vivax was a great lynch and pushed for him.
Later I posted I think a couple mafia were maybe on Jock, this is because he was the lazy but decent day 1 choice . It didn't mean of course I thought everyone who voted him is suspicious but it does mean I thought scum would vote him too. This has been at least vindicated by vivax flipping.
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On May 04 2019 11:31 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2019 11:20 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 09:48 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 04 2019 09:44 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 09:39 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 04 2019 09:32 Pandain wrote:On May 04 2019 09:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
Pandain what do you think of MZ, given that you think BC is scum? Who would you lynch today?
If you have notes on the game, now’s the time.. Dude my thoughts on MZ are literally in the same post, what are you even thinking. And I literally voted dude. I’m asking you to resynthesize. idgaf if you posted something before, and I don’t care much that you voted either. If you believe BC is scum why aren’t you trying to convince others to join you? I don't have unlimited time to play this game. In fact to the contrary, I usually have very limited time. It's why I prioritize and choose useful times I can post (and the main reason I was okay playing a bad n1, since I was unlikely to die). If you want me to restate things becuase you hope to catch me contradicting me previously, than you should realize I can just look at previous posts and make sure that happens. Conversely, if I'm town, what I say shouldn't be different anwyay. And who I want to lynch is probably who I voted... And I made like 3-4 posts, no one even responded. At this point it's clear people have made up their mind one way or the other. I don't have anything new to add, I might switch to a MZ counterwagon if it's the only way to save myself. Maybe if I had a free day tomorrow I would spam post to save myself, but unfortunately I don't. The only closing words I'll say to townies is even if you're pretty sure I'm mafia, look at other people. And hopefully you realize that at least I shouldn't be lynched "today" You don’t have that much time so you spend a bunch of time speculating about kp and posting this drivel instead of just explaining your read further? Can you point me to the posts you made which you think no one responded to? I made a post off the cuff about kp that happened to be wrong and then got called out. It is what it is. At the time it was the BC post, no one commented about it at all outside of a joke post by VE, now I see some comments which is good. I don't have much to add, you can agree with it or not. Let’s work together in whatever time you have. I’m not sure if I can prevent a lynch on you nor do I know if I want to at this point but if you are town then I’m basically your only defender. Let’s imagine you are correct about BC being scum. 1. Do you find any interactions between other players and BC/vice versa that stood out to you? 2. Specifically on MZ, if BC died and flipped scum would you feel more or less confident on MZ?
I thought BC thinking both me and grack are his top mafia reads as complete crazy considering we helped lead the vivax lynch. But apparently you guys have rampant bussing issues in the past so I guess it's null, but I do find it surprising he didn't at least mention it.
I didn't read too much into their interaction. Could be anything.
I'm 90% convinced one of HF or BC is mafia (No I'm not going to get into HF. I just think his play is lazy this game and not good. It's more a gut feeling than anything concrete. )
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I think some phenomenal posts were made and I'm convinced. BC also seems more townie now
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Unfortunately I'll be afk for around 10 hours because of work
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It's my life unfortunately.
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@HF yes I was wishy washy on Jock. Of course I agreed with points that made him suspicious but it didn't mean I felt it meant anything very significant.
It's day 1 dude what do you want. And I was very transparent the whole day that I was iffy on Jock, it's not like I was gungho about him and then trying to lynch people who voted him later
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And re: rels I don't feel comfortable just accepting other people's meta reads on rels. If I do meta reads it's because I know the person myself. That's why I didn't really care about "town rels" shit day 1 meta.
Mostly because if I just accepted that scummy play from someone was their meta and then they turn out to be scum I would be pretty infuriated.
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Basically theres nothing secret about my play.
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I think one of the biggest things about HF is his play just doesn't seem comprehensive. You don't see him making strong town reads or talking about anyone scum besides me and bugs.
That may be enough for other people, but HF in other games is almost crazy thorough, constantly reanalyzing things and changing perspectives and trying to figure out the game holistically, both town and mafia. Particuarly in a game this small it's alarming.
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EPT
