I'm done pushing anyone. I'll sheep mocsta, or if not him, jock. But 3 people dying means they'll just kill mocsta, jock/wiggles and me, and if the game isn't over tomorrow gonna be lurkers vs lurkers. Good luck.

Acrofales

Spain18210 Posts

March 17 2019 16:55 GMT

#8972

Yeah, sorry town. My scumreads were way off.

Wiggles did well, when his radio show started, the palmar scumread just sorta faded away. It only really came back in the last 2 hours of the last day when he was screaming so adamantly for Oats lynch, but lets face it: we weren't going to get Pandain lynched either, and I didn't scumread MZ, so just stuck with Oats and figured Wiggles was either an overzealous townie, or busing. When Oats flipped green it was rather obvious, but also too late.

Jock played very well. His excuse for why his play dropped off was believable enough that his earlier activity just kept him in the green list.

Rels I thought was scum, but he convinced rsoultin and LS he was town, and that was all he really needed to do.

Lets face it, we were never even close to lynching any scum other than Sentinel this game. It was just town fighting with town.

Rayn calls me terrible, but pretty much the only thing he did was tunnel me and then die.

I still don't understand how we lynched Chezinu and how town allowed HF to shoot Palmar. It was just a total collective failing all around.

Day 1: 4 town wagons for lynching
Day 2: 2 town wagons for lynching
Day 4: 2 (3 if we count onegu) town wagons for lynching
Day 5: 2 town wagons for lynching

Acrofales

Spain18210 Posts

March 17 2019 18:24 GMT

#8990

On March 18 2019 02:43 rsoultin wrote:

Show nested quote +

I get why it's nice to have something like that to lean on, but that never happened lol ><

Eh, you went from hard scumming him to null reading him... and maybe he spun it a bit at me, but essentially you weren't scumming him anymore when you died. And LS was definitely towning him any time anyone brought up that he might be scum.

Honestly, I find the closed setup too hard for town. A mafia dayvig and mason are not "normal" roles. And all the setup speculation made a hard game even harder.

Acrofales

Spain18210 Posts

March 17 2019 18:25 GMT

#8991

On March 18 2019 03:22 Ace wrote:
I still don't understand why anyone would have wanted to lynch BH there. Think that was the worst part of the game.

That's just because you were dead already for the chezinu lynch. We had some terrible lynches this game.

Acrofales

Spain18210 Posts

March 18 2019 10:24 GMT

#9032

oh good catch

yeah IDK why he wouldn't disclose more of his role if he doesn't have more shots. I think he has unlimited shot but he only can shoot lurkers, whatever the definition of a lurker is

Heh. And if meddling townies hadn't misinterpreted my claim I would've gotten away with it too. That was what I was intending to make scum believe, but then ppl started questioning my list of players and I had to completely full claim. Granted, the partial claim was a bit botched, but good to see it at least had you guys believing it for a bit there.

Acrofales

Spain18210 Posts

March 19 2019 11:25 GMT

#9048

On March 19 2019 20:08 Jockmcplop wrote:
I need to try and learn from this game so I have a couple of questions if you guys don't mind:

1: Was the win a result of bad town play more than good mafia play?

Obviously everyone is going to have their own opinion on this, but I'd say it's mostly the former, but a bit of the latter. You all did enough to be less of a target than the major wagons, so that was good scum play. But the reason that was possible was down to overall terrible town play (including my own).

2: How to avoid the constant TvT wagons that wrecked this game for town?

Find and lunch scum. You'll see that you can often pull the threads of VCA and other association reads to get a better idea of who's town. E.g. if Sentinel had been a real mafia, we could really have used that info. As is, any info from that lunch had to be treated with caveats and wasn't as useful.

Also, town needs to not do stupid shit.

3: Was there any more the mafia could have done to control the game or would this ultimately be an unnecessary risk?

Depends a bit on the player. Some players are great at doing crazy big plays as scum, that causes them to be town read for a good part of the game. A high profile bus can work really well. But it can also backfire horrifically. The safe play for scum is to be pretty much exactly where you guys were at. Not wielding big thread influence, but wielding just enough to push town into wagons on townies.

Of course, what looks like all scum being safe can unravel really fast if town gets a good case and lynch going, scum reacts badly and then topples one after another. But still. Letting town tear each other apart is the way most mafia victories go.

4: Were there any big, defining errors made by town where the game should have gone differently?

1. Shooting Palmar (this wasted 2 1/2 days)
2. Fake claiming (this contributed to the chezinu lynch and would've gotten Onegu lynched eventually if the game had continued. It also outted FF. It's also just really dumb play as town)
3. Lynching BH (retarded to lynch someone "for information")
4. Lynching Chezinu (stupid lynch happened in a stupid way)

Town was whipped into a frenzy chasing its own tail by any or all of these events and not thinking straight. You could add the game ending Oats lynch to that, but I'm biased and don't think it was a terrible lynch. But there was probably a lack of critical thinking in town at this point.

I'm not asking for any detailed analysis, more just off the tops of your heads from memory as a guide for me so I know what to look for as I re-read the game.

Thanks