Newbie Student Mafia XXIX

On September 08 2018 00:25 Sergiovan wrote:
Apparently I do, can you please link that game so that I can look into it?

Do you have a history with Kaley where you feel his mindset would be carefree as mafia?

On September 08 2018 01:31 Vivax wrote:
...that he's going after rayn of all people.

On September 08 2018 02:14 Koshi wrote:
rayn: those last 4 lines are bad. Don't let your initial Kelsier feels compromise you in the future.

On September 08 2018 02:26 Koshi wrote:
Long story short.

Qatol is bleh. Vivax noticed. I like Vivax.

On September 08 2018 02:58 Vivax wrote:
The reason I think that it is unlikely for mafia kaley to push a town rayn is that he's typically one of the guys you can expect a lot of resistance from.

On September 08 2018 03:43 Vivax wrote:


What makes you think it's a fake push?

On September 08 2018 04:03 Vivax wrote:


Seems like something you might think genuinely. But I wasn't lying and it wasn't made up. It was just one of the impressions I wanted to put out there.

Your conclusion is that. Kayles a smurf and knows that rayn is difficult to lynch. But she genuinely thinks he is mafia for posting that he hates roleplay shit.

On September 08 2018 04:08 Vivax wrote:


What does it have to do with your alignment?

On September 08 2018 05:52 Kaley wrote:
Lesbatron is stomping rude
rayn who thinks he's dope like Doob
He ain't shit he just a noob
scum who'll eat his final food to
day before he's eating rope
inb4 you'll see him mope
cares about the gamestate nope
falling down a slippery slope of
make-believing that self made meta
strawmanning some garbage later
baseless arguments to bait the
lesbatron yeah that's not better
Give this man what he deserves
see him flip red till he learns
roleplay shit is super legit
and if you diss it you better not be scum, raynpelikoneet

On September 08 2018 05:52 Kaley wrote:
Lesbatron is stomping rude
rayn who thinks he's dope like Doob
He ain't shit he just a noob
scum who'll eat his final food to
day before he's eating rope
inb4 you'll see him mope
cares about the gamestate nope

make-believing that self made meta

strawmanning some garbage later

baseless arguments to bait the
lesbatron yeah that's not better

Give this man what he deserves
see him flip red till he learns
roleplay shit is super legit
and if you diss it you better not be scum, raynpelikoneet

On September 09 2018 02:29 KelsierSC wrote:


could just read and ask me

On September 09 2018 04:28 Rels wrote:
rayn not interacting with me feels weird

On September 08 2018 21:30 Holyflare wrote:
I am town though. I don't think Kaley is mafia purely because they are just fighting back at Rayn being a dick. Sergio's posts look scummy because they are finding reasons out of nothing. Irrationally angry at me making one post that said nothing and laying out all the "options" seem feigned.

Will try and post more.

I don't think Kaley is mafia purely because they are just fighting back at Rayn being a dick

On September 09 2018 20:51 Vivax wrote:
Kaley wasn't the worst of lynches considering that his raps would have remained his only contributions for the rest of the game. But I'm wary of anyone who tried to argue that the above wasn't the only reason.

On September 08 2018 01:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
People who make "funny posts" too often get a pass just because they make funny posts. But like Qatol pointed out, what did Kaley actually say?

On September 08 2018 01:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well she just went for "i do anti-town things and when i am called out those people are the ones i call scum" -strategy. lol

Ftr she still hasnt said anything, except for the above.

On September 08 2018 11:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I assume there is something there, like idk.. explain it to me because your rhymes are fucking shit and also not plaing mafia.


yes?

where?

I love giving the green red shitheads a hard time if you wanna go into politics but here the lezzy can tell me what is my baseless argument?


yes <3

On September 09 2018 23:22 Holyflare wrote:


About three people called Kaley mafia because they were posting in rhymes and being specifically antagonistic towards you. It's the entire basis for Qatol's scum read even.

On September 09 2018 23:30 Holyflare wrote:
Rayn talking about Kelsier posts would also be good.

On September 10 2018 05:23 Sergiovan wrote:
Rayn: in post #235 you state that no one but you and Qatol gave reads on Kaley. I clearly stated that I believed her to be town based on her attitude.
More importantly though in the above mentioned post you say that “there is no way” that Koshi is scum. Go read my cases against him and explain how that is possible. I freely admit I don’t think he is a slam dunk 100% confirmed mafia but I fail to see how he is confirmed town.

what is your read on Kelsier? I can’t decipher it from your post #241.
In that same post why are you so quick to defend me?

On September 10 2018 06:28 Koshi wrote:
Sure. But care levels are low.
Good on you to do things.
Not reading the things though.

On September 10 2018 07:07 Holyflare wrote:
Sergio cool now.

It feels wrong to lynch someone like vivax or sergio who are playing the game and letting people who aren't doing anything slip through. My plan is to hover around at deadline and look for someone trying to dodge the modkill with some meaningless posts and lynch that guy.

On September 12 2018 08:15 Rels wrote:
rayn did you ever dumbtell as scum ?

On September 12 2018 09:25 Qatol wrote:

Then why did he provide the hammer vote on an absolutely horrible damdred lynch? As in, if he did not vote damdred, then damdred would not have been lynched (it would have been vivax). As I have been pointing out, damdred had exactly 1 post during the game. This was a mafia-endorsed "policy lynch." I say endorsed because it was a majority vote of 3, and a single vote switch could and did change the result. Isn't rayn supposed to be the best player left in this game? That vote is making me at least reconsider him.

On September 13 2018 05:49 Qatol wrote:

This is a point I was hoping you would make.

However, I'd still like to hear why you thought damdred was the best choice or why vivax is so town to you. Judging from posts other people have been making, you're supposed to be the best scumhunter left. On top of that, your posts have been relatively reasoned, so I'm wondering why you jumped onto a train with such a weak case.

On September 13 2018 06:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Rayn
Scum: kelsier
Town: Sergio Qatol vivax? Prplhz

On September 13 2018 06:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Hmmm

Damdred had 1 vote and Rels had 1 vote

On September 13 2018 06:24 Qatol wrote:
Okay you posted again, pointing out a specific statement from Vivax.

Please explain it to me. I tried to work it out, but my evaluation of the statement falls apart at the point where Vivax talks about a "Qatol made decision," considering the mafia didn't make a decision about HF, other than maybe roleblocking him.

Unless you are pointing out that the incorrect logic is a reason to trust Vivax?

On September 13 2018 06:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

I mean it was in the voting thread, surely you would have been able to read the thread on your phone before you voted.




Vivax was the first vote on damdred, I voted for rels 2 hours later, you were the second vote on damdred almost 5 hours after I had voted.


I was the only reason rels was brought up at this point so clearly you had seen my analysis and it kinda calls into question why you'd say something like

The timestamps are not lining up for your story, and actually going back through your filter to that time again reminded me of this post right here

I didn't like rels for that post but now I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't an attempt to distance himself from you if you two are scum together. The fact is, your timeline doesn't line up. You were a crucial vote on damdred, and now it seems like you're lying about why you picked damdred over rels.

I mean it was in the voting thread, surely you would have been able to read the thread before you posted that.

On September 13 2018 06:47 Qatol wrote:

I've only been mafia once, and we had a prominent team member (L) who didn't know the night kills; this was before quicktopics were used. That being said, I understand your point. I just wish you had made it earlier. I will back off of Vivax for now.

On September 13 2018 06:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

This really doesn't change the fact that rels had votes on him. And it doesn't stop that voting for someone just because they already have votes on them is an absolutely terrible strategy. If you actually thought rels was scum, as you seem to say now, then why didn't you vote for him? It seems like you just went for the expedient lynch and are now backpedaling.

On September 13 2018 06:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'll summarize what I've been trying to get at over the last few pages. I think rayn tried to rewrite history while explaining his damdred vote when he said

Vivax's case against rels was pretty bad, so post hoc rayn doesn't try to justify his vote except by saying there were no other options. This is where I think he is lying.

It's hard for me to believe that he came into the thread 4 hours after I posted my rels analysis and say he never saw it and then bring up rels as a lynch option when he had previously not even mentioned rels.

Furthermore, when he went into the voting thread, my vote was literally 4 posts above his. I find it incredibly improbable for him to have gone into the voting thread and have missed the D2 vote count thread which should vivax on damdred and me on rels. Actually the more I think about this the more convinced I am rayn is trying to cover his ass.

On September 13 2018 07:15 Qatol wrote:
If this is what he does as town, what does he do differently as mafia?

On September 13 2018 07:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
oh lol, i didn't actually call him out until when i said i could lynch him.

On September 13 2018 08:07 Qatol wrote:



??? What happened here?

On September 13 2018 08:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Vivax unfortunately doesn't give us much except for a scum read on Qatol. I'm torn between thinking he was killed for the rb claim or killed bc he had by far the most reasonable points against qatol. Nevertheless, I'm pretty comfortable I'm on the right track with at least my Rels read and rayn's insta vote on Kelsier looks fairly terrible.

On September 13 2018 08:15 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
If you are town then you'd be wanting to lynch the person who has the highest probability of being scum.

On September 13 2018 08:41 Qatol wrote:
rayn, please calm down. There is no need to talk to anyone like that. All you do is make the game less fun for all of us. We are supposed to be a friendly community at the end of the day, or we don't wind up having a community at all.

[bAll he's asking you to do is vote for someone you already have pegged as scum.[/b Again, this is lylo. Town needs to vote overwhelmingly.

On September 13 2018 08:46 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

There are still 8 people left my dude...

On September 13 2018 08:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

For people who aren't rayn, here's the difference.

D2, there was almost no consolidation, if rayn had felt this strongly Kelsier was scum, a townie could have put in the effort to try and make a Kelsier lynch happen, the stakes were also lower as it was not lylo, and there was less information to make a decision. Instead rayn switched to damdred (thus indicating he thinks damdred is scummier) but also names rels as someone he'd vote for (thus suggesting rels is scummier as well).

D3, we're at lylo, we already know rayn thinks rels is as scummy as damdred (who he voted for over kelsier) but instead of voting for rels (who he indicated he would have voted for if others wanted to) he goes back to kelsier. The issue is the prioritization is wrong for a townie. He already indicated D2 he thought rels was scummier than Kelsier during the whole damdred lynch. Now that there are several people who also want to lynch rels, a townie would be happy to see their read is finally getting pushed. Instead we have this quasi meltdown over the kelsier vote which ends up sounding like cornered mafia.

The logic between D2 and D3 does not add up.

On September 14 2018 01:18 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

It's not instant majority. We have time to discuss stuff.

I'm probably going to focus here.

Day 1
Kaley [3]: Qatol, raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, Rels

Day 2
Damdred [3]: Vivax, prplhz, raynpelikoneet

I know it is kind of an inactive game, but I imagine among this group the common denominator is scum. As an aside, I voted for him after reading that post I quoted but before I even knew he also ended up being the common denominator on 2 bad lynches.

On September 09 2018 07:18 kitaman27 wrote:

---

Day 1 Vote Count

---

Kaley [3]: Qatol, raynpelikoneet, Rels
Koshi [1]: Sergiovan
raynpelikoneet [1]: Kaley
Vivax [1]: KelsierSC
Holyflare [1]: Koshi
RebirthOfLeGenD [1]: Vivax
Qatol [1]: Koshi, Holyflare

Not Voting [4]: Meapak_Ziphh, RebirthOfLeGenD, Damdred, prplhz

On September 12 2018 07:47 kitaman27 wrote:

---

Day 2 Vote Count

---

Damdred [3]: Vivax, prplhz, raynpelikoneet
Vivax [2]: Qatol, Sergiovan
Qatol [1]: Rels
Rels [1]: Meapak_Ziphh

Not Voting [3]: RebirthOfLeGendD, Damdred, KelsierSC

On September 14 2018 22:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

I don't understand why Kelsier is doing the whole "whatever I give up" thing." I have never read that play as frustrated town. Basically his entire case on Qatol is based around the NKs which is honestly just speculation.

I mean Vivax was most likely killed since he was essentially confirmed town. Vivax hadn't even pushed Qatol or been active in the two irl days prior to getting killed so I have a hard time believing this speculation that he was killed bc he was onto something big. Like read Vivax's filter, he does not come off as someone who is gunning to kill Qatol. If we're gonna speculate on the NKs I find it a much higher chance it was bc he was quasi confirmed due to the RB claim.

I don't think Kelsier is scum bc it would be an odd play for rayn to be bussing him this hard at lylo but I just don't find the Qatol case convincing for a lylo lynch.

On September 15 2018 01:29 Sergiovan wrote:
The above two vote counts show that we haven’t had a true wagon emerge on scum this whole game, the most votes any possible scum has had at EOD is one.

Based on that my vote analysis is lacking at best. There was no impetus for any scum member to vote one way or another during d1 or d2.

There is also no impetus for scum to vote any particular way now, d3 with each wagon having less than or equal to two votes. We need to consolidate our votes on only two targets for this lynch so that we actually have a chance of winning.

On September 14 2018 07:07 kitaman27 wrote:

---

Day 3 Vote Count

---

Rels [2]: Qatol, Meapak_Ziphh
Qatol [2]: KelsierSC, prplhz
KelsierSC [1]: raynpelikoneet
Raynpelikoneet [1]: RebirthOfLeGenD

Not Voting [2]: Rels, Sergiovan

---

Rels is currently the lynch.

The deadline is Friday, Sep 14 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .

If there is an error in the vote count, which there probably is, let me know.

On September 15 2018 02:11 Sergiovan wrote:
Do you Rayn think Prplhz is mafia y/n?

On September 15 2018 02:14 Sergiovan wrote:
Rayn - I will not vote Kelsier today. Your vote is bad and you should feel bad

On September 15 2018 02:38 Sergiovan wrote:
Kelsier’s posts simply aren’t from a scum mindset, look at how careless he is. Bad townie makes way more sense than any other explanation for his behavior. Read what I wrote about him, go look at his early game again; the way he thinks means he cannot be the most likely scum in this game

Don’t vote Qatol. That’s a terrible vote.

On September 15 2018 02:56 Qatol wrote:

Frankly, you're right and I should have made more of an effort to stop it. You will note that I made a halfhearted effort to stop it here:

I fully realize this isn't a defense of you, which I should have posted, but all I can do on this point is plead lack of clear thought (if you must know, I have to do things that aggravate a serious spinal condition and it means I'm not sleeping very well). I'm running on a full 10 hours of sleep now, however, and am hoping it helps.

That's a pretty fearless statement to make for a townie, going against your reads like that

On September 15 2018 03:20 Qatol wrote:

Notice that my read isn't really based on that. I'm just pointing out that it's an additional thing that would have had to happen for scum!meapak to be true. Let me take this a step further. Think about who the mafia shot last night. Again, rayn spent a decent chunk of the night explaining why vivax was extremely likely town. I think they were worried enough about a potential medic that setting up the claim by meapak wouldn't be worth it. And again, this is just a supporting point to my main argument anyways.

On September 15 2018 03:34 prplhz wrote:

Shameless pocketing,... will I fall for it before going out?

I think I just might.

On September 15 2018 03:36 Qatol wrote:

I'm not sure what I'm misrepresenting. This actually isn't saying anything about you other than you pointed out that vivax was unlikely to be mafia. I'm not saying it was scummy. I'm not actually even saying it was pro-town. All I'm saying is you made a relatively persuasive argument for vivax being almost confirmed town, and that it's likely that at least some townies would be persuaded by it. That makes vivax both a good target for the mafia night kill but also a good target for a medic. Because he's a good medic target, the mafia are less likely to try and use the roleblock to establish their own credibility.

Again, my main point has to do with how the two of you acted at the beginning of Day 3 not fitting what I would expect from the mafia team.

On September 15 2018 03:39 prplhz wrote:
Will try to phonepost.

KelsierSC or bust.

On September 15 2018 03:42 Sergiovan wrote:
Jesus christ

On September 15 2018 03:53 Sergiovan wrote:
I don’t have a town read on Prplhz are you even reading?

On September 15 2018 03:42 Sergiovan wrote:
Prplhz! Welcome back to the thread.

Please be aware that if you are town we don’t have the option of splitting our votes. We need to vote as four fifths of a single block and I believe that means that we have to vote Rels with Meapak and Qatol

On September 15 2018 03:59 Sergiovan wrote:
I’m not confident on Prplhz. If he is town he needs to help town and it’s like a 50% chance that he is. Notice I’ve been engaging you in the thread too, that doesn’t mean I have a town read on you.

One of you is town and engaging you is the best play for town so that information enters the thread and is present even if I’m night killed

On September 15 2018 04:12 Sergiovan wrote:


Rayn: I haven’t had a read on you the whole game, your play hasn’t been alignment indicative to me. I currently have you on my potential scum list by process of elimination. But your inability to read my friggin posts isn’t helping your case.

On September 15 2018 04:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wait hmm.. no you actually didn't.
why am i not mafia?

On September 15 2018 04:19 Sergiovan wrote:
I’m not confident that you aren’t

On September 15 2018 05:07 Qatol wrote:

RoL. He's distracting the thread and trying to divide the vote for no good reason. He's also trying to downplay the urgency to focus votes, despite this being an inactive game involving people in wildly different time zones. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, the "voting" argument on rayn is just wrong and RoL should know better.

I also happen to think that Rels is the most likely to get a townie majority.

On September 15 2018 05:46 prplhz wrote:
I can't change vote because, in spite of how it may appear, I'm not here.

On September 15 2018 05:50 Qatol wrote:

Two of them:
1. Meapak doesn't like that Rels decided that everyone in you, sergio, koshi, and kelsier were town, rather than backing one or two of you. I agree. It isn't how townies react to arguments. It's a way to avoid confrontation and keep yourself off the radar.

2. Meapak points out that Rels basically wants to lynch Kaley for playing in a way that is hard to read. I agree that this is about as flimsy of a reason as you can get to join a bandwagon. Rels doesn't even point out any arguments regarding Kaley that he thinks are persuasive.

On September 15 2018 05:58 Sergiovan wrote:



That’s what worries me a four man majority is much safer than three.

If you lynch Rels with me and Qatol today we can lynch RoL tomorrow and have the time to convince another townie to jump on board, that way we could be more sure of a win rather than risking a mafia deadline switch to save RoL

On September 15 2018 06:16 Qatol wrote:

1. It isn't the number of town reads that bothers me. The uncommon thing is that they were all arguing with each other. I just don't see town!rels not taking sides on that kind of thing. That screams fear to me. Considering he hasn't even tried to contribute other than the case on me, that screams mafia.

2. No, I definitely think Kaley could have been lynched D1. Otherwise, I wouldn't have voted the way I did. However, that isn't the argument Rels made. His argument was "this is hard to read and I don't want to bother."


I obviously don't agree with his case on you. But here's the big thing: that doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter how you view each other. What matters is the town is at lylo and needs a majority on a scum. That means the townies need to vote for the same person, even if they don't trust each other. You can accuse each other later.

Think of it this way: if the town gets a majority, this could be a way to force mafia!meapak to go along with it, making last second idiocy even less likely (because then he has to be at his computer right before the lynch to undo it). This doesn't mean you have to trust meapak. This is more about the town focusing on a single mafia member.

On September 15 2018 06:27 Qatol wrote:

Because he isn't the best odds for scum. Because you're losing your temper in a way that clearly hurts the town. Calm down please.

On September 15 2018 06:30 prplhz wrote:

Seriously no.

On September 15 2018 06:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:

who are you voting for?

On September 15 2018 06:40 Qatol wrote:
If your argument is so strong, why is prplhz the only one who joined you?

On September 15 2018 06:55 Qatol wrote:

If you don't feel confident voting with me, lynch me and lose. That's literally your choice. There's really only 4 situations:

1) town!Qatol, town!Kelsier
You need a tiebreaker or 5 votes on someone who isn't me. In other words, you have to coordinate with me.

2) town!Qatol, mafia!Kelsier
You need 4 votes on someone who isn't me. If you don't want to vote with me, pray that I vote alone on someone who doesn't have the tiebreaker.

3) mafia!Qatol, town!Kelsier
I'm pretty sure you don't believe this one, but the answer is lynch me.

4) mafia!Qatol, mafia!Kelsier
Do you really think this makes sense either? You still need to collect 3 votes on someone, and you need to worry about Meapak, Sergio, Rels, and RoL voting on a townie or not voting at all.

Look, I am willing to coordinate votes with you, just not on Kelsier or Meapak. If you don't want to do that and you're town, it's game over. It's really that simple.

On September 15 2018 06:56 prplhz wrote:
What the fuck are we doing rayn

On September 15 2018 07:00 Qatol wrote:

Actually, I do need you if you and prplhz are both town. Unless you think the mafia is going to be unable to force a scum lynch when the town majority is 3.

On September 15 2018 07:02 Qatol wrote:
For crying out loud, you do realize that unless RoL is mafia you need 4 votes and a tiebreaker to not get lynched yourself, right? You have more people on your scumlist than there are scum in this game. This is just crazy. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

On September 15 2018 07:07 Rels wrote:
rayn why do you wanna lynch KSC ?

On September 15 2018 07:08 Rels wrote:

'cause I find this post really townie in a world when he can let me die

On September 15 2018 07:09 Rels wrote:

'cause I'm not mafia. This game would be very EZ if I was scum TBH. Just be active and win

On September 15 2018 07:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:

so yo uare inactive BECAUSE you are town?

On September 15 2018 07:14 Rels wrote:

I'm inactive because when I got home all week I couldn't do anything but eat then sleep. And I couldn't play at work. Would have had the same problems as scum but it's easy to write BS as scum

On September 15 2018 07:18 Rels wrote:

I never had any opinion to share

On September 08 2018 23:17 Rels wrote:
Sergio is almost lock town for me
rayn Koshi and KSC look town too
I want to lynch Kaley

On September 11 2018 23:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am going to star by answering this:

If you are going to tell me you seriously read Kaley as town after maybe 40 hours of D1 then you can die in a fire, because what you posted about him early on in D1 was a complete misconstrue of what he was saying (giving reads as you said -- which he definitely wasnt), especially going later onto D1.

My read on Kelsier is coming soon.

I am not defending you. I am pointing out irrational behavior by someone else where the target happens to be you, not to even mention HF asked for my read on Kelsier. Right now i don't think you are mafia but even if i did i would point such behavior out just because accusing someone (even someone i read as mafia) based on non-sensical reasons is just BS and points out towards them being mafia.

idk if i have to still explain my read ok Koshi, if you think tha's relevant then go ahead and ask me to explain but the point on it is he made some posts that i found out almost impossible to come from mafia!Koshi. I also didn't care to focus on explaining my townread who was never under any threat of being lynched over other thigns i did D1.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I think Kelsier is mafia basically because especially on D2 (and that Serge read D1-N1) is based on stuff that other people did. What Kelsier has done D2 is that he has created a narrative and for that he calls out some people. He makes an assumption why Koshi died, creates scenarios about what that means, and makes "reads" out of it. Except that nothing in those reads is based on what the person he scumreads actually did. Koshi can be right or Koshi can be wrong, but whatever Koshi said or did is not a reason for anyone to be mafia, otherwise Holyflare should have flipped red. I understand the idea behind Kelsier's mindset, but he is using Koshi as a REASON to read certain people as he does, and that's just lazy, cheap, and wrong. Because that's not how this game works.

Other than that, let's go to look at those things, especially Kelsier's last big post. I find out there to be some huge problems:
1) Discounting everything else, why is Kelsier voting for Serge over Vivax right now? After all he has actual reasons to think Vivax is mafia, i mean like almost all his D1 is attacking Vivax and it is 100% certain that 0-posts Vivax doesn't at least look better D2 than he did D1.
2) There is no reasoning on Serge being mafia over Vivax (his top scumread D1) right now that wasn't there already on D1 as per his words, except for the below (which i find not reasonable at all).
3) Kelsier scumreads Serge on D1 for something that was not enough to switch his vote from Vivax. I think that should not be a reason to switch his vote come D2 either since Vivax hasn't made a single post after telling us how he "has a pretty good clue of who is mafia but he needs to wait until D2". Right now he is backing up his read on Serge with "Koshi and Holyflare thought Serge is mafia", which first of all isn't a reasonable reason to call anyone mafia (i talked about this earlier) and also there is the fact that the last posts HF and Koshi made on Serge are:


Now i cannot be sure if Koshi states here he doesn't think Serge is mafia anymore or not, and we unfortunately cannot ask him, but that doesn't sound like a hard scumread anymore. Holyflare definitely doesn't have a scumread on Serge anymore. All this happened during N1. Even the narrative Kelsier is pushing is factually incorrect here.

As a cherry on top of the cake he says this:

What's the point of voting for someone who you aren't even planning on lynching????? The pressure factor is gone right here because Kelsier basically said he is going to do something else by the end of the day.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

TLDR:
- I think logically town!Kelsier should be voting for Vivax over Serge
- I think Kelsier isn't using arguments based on what the person he accuses actually did (or even didn't)
- Even his narrative (above) is based on irrational conclusions or missing some crucial posts
- He is already backing off from lynching the people he apparently wants to lynch onto an inactive lynch.

##vote Kelsier

On September 15 2018 07:21 Rels wrote:

yeah and after this day I didn't have the time to play until the end of D2

On September 15 2018 07:26 Rels wrote:
that case is convincing actually. Will fact check it