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On September 12 2018 00:12 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2018 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:
Nothing is happening in D2, literally no one is posting.
The only thing I have to work with is the Koshi night kill so I posted my thoughts on it, even asking for people to link me posts where koshi hinted at blue and I get called mafia and people saying "what the heck is this"
I am voting sergio at the start of the day because of the Koshi nightkill and my own thoughts on D1. I still have vivax as scum but im using the new information for my vote.
However as there hasn't been anything contributed this day and we have a bunch of AFK's i would rather lynch one of those NOW. I haven't unvoted sergio yet.
Okay, my apologies for that comment. You are completely right, I shouldn't have said that. I was just a little surprised because you clearly took quite a bit of time to say almost exactly the same things I did. Show nested quote +On September 11 2018 23:54 KelsierSC wrote:
and why is HF a good N1 medic target? because he is the best player on the site and mafia usually tries to kill those people. This is also something I wasn't aware of; his first game seems to be ~2 years after I stopped following the site closely. As far as I'm concerned, Ver is still the best mafia player on the site. I am curious what statements from HolyFlare and Koshi you're relying on to vote Sergio.
There was this comment from Sergio which I mentioned I didn't like.
On September 08 2018 13:45 Sergiovan wrote:
Holyflare appears either pants-on-head-useless or mafia. Over 24 hours into the game and he appears just to place an awful vote with literally no reason. Hf: do you genuinely believe that Kaley is scum, if so why?
People who know holyflare: is this behavior possible from a town HF? That is, is he bad enough to do nothing day one besides avoid a modkill but also be town aligned.
This felt wrong to me, completely out of proportion to what had happened. A lot of the game hadn't even posted at that time and he lashes out at hf really strongly.
I'm looking back over what Koshi wrote and he didn't make a "sergio is mafia for X" reasons. He did reference a scum read on him several times though. An example comment.
On September 08 2018 21:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2018 13:49 Sergiovan wrote:
1) pants-on-head-useless 2) scum 3) townie who thinks they are making some slick play. imho Sergio should stick to singing great belgian songs. 1) Why? pants on head because he voted somebody? Why? 2) Why? scum because he voted somebody? Why? 3) Why? townie who thinks they are making some slick play because he voted somebody? Why? Weird. Total weird.
I've looked back over koshi's posts and it's a bit of a drunken mess but his main scum reads are you , sergio and hf. Hf is dead
If I want to find reasons he was killed it's because either you or sergio are scum. Or he was read as a role and I think only rayn is familiar enough or good enough to do that.
The third option is he was a town who was killed to dodge medic saves but that could be done by anyone so it isn't helpful.
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I don't agree that the comments you mentioned are indicators of a role.
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On September 11 2018 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
dear god, did Koshi actually hint being blue?
I was ~90% sure he was from post #76 (though not which role). He didn't seem the type to frequently get lynched day 1, which would be the only other reason I could see for him to get that nervous about getting lynched that early. It's why my strategy with him was to basically tell the thread "look at him later, but he might be suspicious."
Looking back at it, posts 246 and 252 were pretty clear requests for our blessing on how he was using his vigi hit.
I think there's a chance the mafia could have caught on.
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Prplhz could definitely be mafia.
His timing to pop up in the thread end of the night is oddly suspicious
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On September 12 2018 00:27 KelsierSC wrote:
Prplhz could definitely be mafia.
His timing to pop up in the thread end of the night is oddly suspicious
Do you have any arguments about him other than his timing?
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Feels like he pops up to avoid mod action or maybe complete the night kill?
Then posts some one liners as his "impression" of re reading the thread.
Then he attacks you for defending yourself and not discussing night kills.
His final reason to vote you at the start of the day (maybe to avoid mod kill for not voting) is that koshi and hf scum read you. Which isn't a bad reason but feels really convenient.
So to answer your question. No I don't have a particularly good reason but he's an inactive and he feels bad so get him outta here.
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I could lynch anyone apart from you and rayn.
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I'm here now.
Before I start getting back to posting about people in particular and who I think is mafia and not: I got a roleblock notification.
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On September 12 2018 00:40 Vivax wrote:
I'm here now.
Before I start getting back to posting about people in particular and who I think is mafia and not: I got a roleblock notification.
oh nice
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I already think we should lynch Damdred for the empty promise. You aren't here on D1? Okay. But you are here on D2 and then you deliver an empty promise? That's not ok. You should usually be capable of doing at least a tiny little bit more as town. And I know you tend to give yourself away as mafia with posts that contain a lot of things that superficially look good and in depth turn out to be extremely inconsistent with each other. Maybe you know that, maybe you avoid posting for that reason.
Either way, as town you usually have the drive to put out at least a minimum of thoughts when you say you would. So for me, you wander right into scum pile with the little I have read and think you should be today's lynch.
##Vote Damdred
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Then I have a gripe with Sergio I have been carrying with me around for a while: You said it would be concerning for me to have townleaned Kaley if he turned out to be town. I don't recall you going back to this or using it to further your read on me, in a good or a bad way. I would like you to do that next.
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On September 12 2018 00:23 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2018 00:12 Qatol wrote:On September 11 2018 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:
Nothing is happening in D2, literally no one is posting.
The only thing I have to work with is the Koshi night kill so I posted my thoughts on it, even asking for people to link me posts where koshi hinted at blue and I get called mafia and people saying "what the heck is this"
I am voting sergio at the start of the day because of the Koshi nightkill and my own thoughts on D1. I still have vivax as scum but im using the new information for my vote.
However as there hasn't been anything contributed this day and we have a bunch of AFK's i would rather lynch one of those NOW. I haven't unvoted sergio yet.
Okay, my apologies for that comment. You are completely right, I shouldn't have said that. I was just a little surprised because you clearly took quite a bit of time to say almost exactly the same things I did. On September 11 2018 23:54 KelsierSC wrote:
and why is HF a good N1 medic target? because he is the best player on the site and mafia usually tries to kill those people. This is also something I wasn't aware of; his first game seems to be ~2 years after I stopped following the site closely. As far as I'm concerned, Ver is still the best mafia player on the site. I am curious what statements from HolyFlare and Koshi you're relying on to vote Sergio. There was this comment from Sergio which I mentioned I didn't like. Show nested quote +On September 08 2018 13:45 Sergiovan wrote:
Holyflare appears either pants-on-head-useless or mafia. Over 24 hours into the game and he appears just to place an awful vote with literally no reason. Hf: do you genuinely believe that Kaley is scum, if so why?
People who know holyflare: is this behavior possible from a town HF? That is, is he bad enough to do nothing day one besides avoid a modkill but also be town aligned.
This felt wrong to me, completely out of proportion to what had happened. A lot of the game hadn't even posted at that time and he lashes out at hf really strongly. I'm looking back over what Koshi wrote and he didn't make a "sergio is mafia for X" reasons. He did reference a scum read on him several times though. An example comment. Show nested quote +On September 08 2018 21:26 Koshi wrote:On September 08 2018 13:49 Sergiovan wrote:
1) pants-on-head-useless 2) scum 3) townie who thinks they are making some slick play. imho Sergio should stick to singing great belgian songs. 1) Why? pants on head because he voted somebody? Why? 2) Why? scum because he voted somebody? Why? 3) Why? townie who thinks they are making some slick play because he voted somebody? Why? Weird. Total weird. I've looked back over koshi's posts and it's a bit of a drunken mess but his main scum reads are you , sergio and hf. Hf is dead If I want to find reasons he was killed it's because either you or sergio are scum. Or he was read as a role and I think only rayn is familiar enough or good enough to do that. The third option is he was a town who was killed to dodge medic saves but that could be done by anyone so it isn't helpful.
I don't see the post you're pointing to as being a scumread, more like calling Sergio out for not explaining his actions better. Koshi did push Sergio, but only as a conditional (i.e., if Holyflare then Sergiovan). Wouldn't that mean the mafia has every reason to leave Koshi alive and let him push holyflare for lynch day 2? I am not defending Sergio by any means, but I like arguments that make sense to me and this one doesn't.
You said you are looking for reasons Koshi was killed and the strongest reason you can think of is because either Sergio or I am scum. You pointed out that he went after Sergio and myself. You mentioned HolyFlare is the best mafia player on the site. He was pushing me harder than anyone else. Further, Holyflare's very last post said this:
On September 10 2018 07:07 Holyflare wrote:
Sergio cool now.
Why aren't you pushing me? Why Sergio?
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Qatol so far feels like he's furthering scum agenda and both NKs point heavily towards him. Koshi loved me for pointing out that I didn't like the way he was going after kaley, and HF also was rather sure he was mafia. Both died, and Qatols followup is to try and get a lynch on me going regardless. From a strategic perspective, both NKs are bad for me, he doesn't take that into account.
It's also been a while since HF got killed N1 simply cause HF is a player everyone who knows him is always paranoid about and he becomes a potential mislynch as the game goes on. So a Qatol made decision would fit here, simply cause he doesn't know enough about HF.
Additionally, his confidence feels fake to me so far. I haven't been able to be confident about my reads and straightforward about what I want to do not cause I am mafia, but cause we had a lot of inactives for most of the game and that tells me that I have to be careful about whom I accuse since I can never exclude that mafia simply didn't post. It feels wrong to me to just look at the actives and find reasons to scumread them under these circumstances. But Qatol doesn't. Day 1 he easily finds reasons to vote off kaley, and D2 he easily sees it as an easy reason to go after me that I display this type of hesitance.
But as an active poster, I don't believe Qatol takes priority before Damdred, even though I see him working against me until the point he is lynched, should he not decide to let his scumread fall (which isn't implying that it would be a reason for me to retract my own read on him).
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On September 12 2018 00:49 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2018 00:23 KelsierSC wrote:On September 12 2018 00:12 Qatol wrote:On September 11 2018 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:
Nothing is happening in D2, literally no one is posting.
The only thing I have to work with is the Koshi night kill so I posted my thoughts on it, even asking for people to link me posts where koshi hinted at blue and I get called mafia and people saying "what the heck is this"
I am voting sergio at the start of the day because of the Koshi nightkill and my own thoughts on D1. I still have vivax as scum but im using the new information for my vote.
However as there hasn't been anything contributed this day and we have a bunch of AFK's i would rather lynch one of those NOW. I haven't unvoted sergio yet.
Okay, my apologies for that comment. You are completely right, I shouldn't have said that. I was just a little surprised because you clearly took quite a bit of time to say almost exactly the same things I did. On September 11 2018 23:54 KelsierSC wrote:
and why is HF a good N1 medic target? because he is the best player on the site and mafia usually tries to kill those people. This is also something I wasn't aware of; his first game seems to be ~2 years after I stopped following the site closely. As far as I'm concerned, Ver is still the best mafia player on the site. I am curious what statements from HolyFlare and Koshi you're relying on to vote Sergio. There was this comment from Sergio which I mentioned I didn't like. On September 08 2018 13:45 Sergiovan wrote:
Holyflare appears either pants-on-head-useless or mafia. Over 24 hours into the game and he appears just to place an awful vote with literally no reason. Hf: do you genuinely believe that Kaley is scum, if so why?
People who know holyflare: is this behavior possible from a town HF? That is, is he bad enough to do nothing day one besides avoid a modkill but also be town aligned.
This felt wrong to me, completely out of proportion to what had happened. A lot of the game hadn't even posted at that time and he lashes out at hf really strongly. I'm looking back over what Koshi wrote and he didn't make a "sergio is mafia for X" reasons. He did reference a scum read on him several times though. An example comment. On September 08 2018 21:26 Koshi wrote:On September 08 2018 13:49 Sergiovan wrote:
1) pants-on-head-useless 2) scum 3) townie who thinks they are making some slick play. imho Sergio should stick to singing great belgian songs. 1) Why? pants on head because he voted somebody? Why? 2) Why? scum because he voted somebody? Why? 3) Why? townie who thinks they are making some slick play because he voted somebody? Why? Weird. Total weird. I've looked back over koshi's posts and it's a bit of a drunken mess but his main scum reads are you , sergio and hf. Hf is dead If I want to find reasons he was killed it's because either you or sergio are scum. Or he was read as a role and I think only rayn is familiar enough or good enough to do that. The third option is he was a town who was killed to dodge medic saves but that could be done by anyone so it isn't helpful. I don't see the post you're pointing to as being a scumread, more like calling Sergio out for not explaining his actions better. Koshi did push Sergio, but only as a conditional (i.e., if Holyflare then Sergiovan). Wouldn't that mean the mafia has every reason to leave Koshi alive and let him push holyflare for lynch day 2? I am not defending Sergio by any means, but I like arguments that make sense to me and this one doesn't. You said you are looking for reasons Koshi was killed and the strongest reason you can think of is because either Sergio or I am scum. You pointed out that he went after Sergio and myself. You mentioned HolyFlare is the best mafia player on the site. He was pushing me harder than anyone else. Further, Holyflare's very last post said this: Why aren't you pushing me? Why Sergio?
Because I had my own reason to scumread Sergio aswell as the night kill. My impression is that Koshi had Sergio as a scumread. It being a convoluted reason isn't relevant to my logic.
Honestly you do bring up a good point that I could push you aswell , You are a good fit for mafia based on the night kills. but you seem to be playing the game at the moment and we don't have enough of that.
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On September 12 2018 00:54 Vivax wrote:
Qatol so far feels like he's furthering scum agenda and both NKs point heavily towards him. Koshi loved me for pointing out that I didn't like the way he was going after kaley, and HF also was rather sure he was mafia. Both died, and Qatols followup is to try and get a lynch on me going regardless. From a strategic perspective, both NKs are bad for me, he doesn't take that into account.
It's also been a while since HF got killed N1 simply cause HF is a player everyone who knows him is always paranoid about and he becomes a potential mislynch as the game goes on. So a Qatol made decision would fit here, simply cause he doesn't know enough about HF.
Additionally, his confidence feels fake to me so far. I haven't been able to be confident about my reads and straightforward about what I want to do not cause I am mafia, but cause we had a lot of inactives for most of the game and that tells me that I have to be careful about whom I accuse since I can never exclude that mafia simply didn't post. It feels wrong to me to just look at the actives and find reasons to scumread them under these circumstances. But Qatol doesn't. Day 1 he easily finds reasons to vote off kaley, and D2 he easily sees it as an easy reason to go after me that I display this type of hesitance.
But as an active poster, I don't believe Qatol takes priority before Damdred, even though I see him working against me until the point he is lynched, should he not decide to let his scumread fall (which isn't implying that it would be a reason for me to retract my own read on him).
Going to take my scum read off vivax.
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I'd like to see more from Rels apart from the lazy kaley vote. Cause I need it to make up my mind about the third mafia.
On September 09 2018 04:27 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2018 03:02 Qatol wrote:Getting back to the game, I will say that I am nervous that there hasn't been more pushback regarding Kaley, both by the player themselves and by others. Usually lynching mafia day 1 is like pulling teeth. That hasn't been the experience so far. Plus, we're getting posts like this: On September 08 2018 23:17 Rels wrote:
Sergio is almost lock town for me
rayn Koshi and KSC look town too
I want to lynch Kaley Rels, why is Sergio almost a lock? Why do you want to lynch Kaley? Considering there was 30 minutes between your "yo" post and your vote, I'm confused as to why you didn't say more. During those 30 minutes I read the game. Sergio's angryness makes no sense as scum in my opinion. Kaley has chosen to play in a way that makes her very hard to read. Fair enough. But when pushed for it, she doubled down and did it more strongly. I can see this strategy coming more from scum (kinda like "they wouldn't believe scum would continue roleplaying in my position"). Could also come from stubborn town but for now she's the more likely to flip scum.
The bolded is wifom. It's something you can't really disagree with and superficially seems like a good reason, but where do you draw the line in what kaley was thinking? Do I try to appease the townies or do I look like I don't give a damn? Both seem like viable strategies to me as long as you wrap them up in the right way.
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Shit man reading through all this. Big part of me wants to just sheep HF and Koshi into lynching Qatol.
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rayn, I haven't forgotten you. I think you overstate your case a little bit, but you have a couple of good points.
You've played enough games to know that people will sometimes vote for the person that was being accused by the night kill target. I can absolutely see a townie voting for Sergio based on Koshi's posts (even though I think Koshi's argument has fallen apart). I don't think he ever said he was voting Sergio based on HF's reads (though why isn't he looking at HF's reads more closely if he thinks HF is a better player than Koshi? just because of the night kill?)
Easily your strongest point is this:
As a cherry on top of the cake he says this: Show nested quote +It feels wrong to lynch someone like vivax or sergio who are playing the game and letting people who aren't doing anything slip through. My plan is to hover around at deadline and look for someone trying to dodge the modkill with some meaningless posts and lynch that guy. What's the point of voting for someone who you aren't even planning on lynching????? The pressure factor is gone right here because Kelsier basically said he is going to do something else by the end of the day.
I absolutely agree on this point and would like Kelsier to explain the logic behind this point. At the end of the day, everyone in this game signed up to play. If they are at all interested in playing more in the future, why wouldn't they try to dodge a modkill? This looks to me like a push to, at best (assuming proportional inactives between the mafia and town), to take a shot in the dark prayer, hoping to hit mafia.
I would like to see Kelsier respond to some of these points before I vote him though.
On a related point, I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks that lynching an inactive at this point is the best policy. We have no way to identify whether they are town or mafia whatsoever, except by process of elimination. Plus we know that at least someone from the mafia is participating in the game (or there wouldn't have been a night kill). The odds are simply not behind a blind shot in the dark.
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EPT
