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On April 07 2017 20:11 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2017 20:08 beentheredonethat wrote: I'm rather serious. I'm already not enjoying this game and it won't be better. It feels like whatever I say to explain stuff, all you guys do is put more questions. You kinda want to scumread me at that point. Maybe you should back off the thread and re-read me without the heat of the discussion, especially the last 5-6 pages of the thread. But then again, that's up to you. That's the game bro. You were attacking me a lot when I was mafia in DotA 2. atm we are attacking you because we consider you as mafia. I also disliked getting attacked as town. Now I am more ok with. Something to do with being bad handling criticism and thinking that your play doesn't deserve criticism. Anyway. We will see. I'm better at hosting anyways . Exactly. I am fully aware that it's my own fault that people are scumreading me. But it's hard to swallow your own incompetence rather than blaming it on others.
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On April 07 2017 20:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay for your scumreads. Tumblewood. Try to convince people on your case, or get your vote on another of your scumreads? Why do you just wanna quit? It's mainly being melodramatic right now. I get discouraged from critique and am a praise-driven person. If you say I'm bad at something, I'd rather not try it again than retry and get better. That's actually one of my human flaws.
re: Tumblewood: I answered already to Koshi's remarks on that topic. But long story short, my key points on him are that he's making his life as easy as possible. He drops only town reads, votes for an afk guy, and claims that he prepared for a Rels read which struck out to me as really weird.
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I have to admit that while I'm okay with a sicklucker lynch, I am fully aware it's more of a "I don't like this guy right now because what he's doing upsets me" thing and not based on a solid scum read.
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It's not about being better, rayn, it's about where I looked at thus far. I liked the points you linked on Calix and they are one of the reason why I'm townreading you but as of now, I simply haven't looked at Calix in such detail yet.
I should of course not tunnel on tumble but he's all I have for now. Given that I've been busy explaining and defending myself the last 3 hours or so, I think that's not a shame.
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It's kinda fun though how pretty much everybody says "btdt is scum" yet everybody also goes like "btdt is bad town". At this point, there must be some scummers on me who're just following thread sentiment.
I mean even in my posts on Tumble, people do not read them to see what I have to say on Tumble. Instead, they read them to find reasons to scumread me, see df's post for reference.
Then again, there are no votes on me as of now, instead thread sentiment is going after calix. :/ still in for Tumble.
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I mean my point of "this guy spits out townreads, does nothing, makes a drive-by vote, gets out again" still stands. If that is not low-volume scum I dont know what is.
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On April 07 2017 22:24 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2017 18:55 beentheredonethat wrote: The whole sicklucker Rayn argument is getting out of hand, all the while everyone else gets away with doing nothing, specifically speaking of Tumblewood.
Like, what is Tumble even doing?
* starts the game with seven posts which are absolutely irrelevant banter * puts up three posts that have somewhat of game relevance (but then, no follow up, so that renders his questions pointless) * enters thread again, claims a mind meld, drops a townread for that on calix * his mind meld is scumreading me for exactly what Calix said, pretty much following thread sentiment * BUT ends up calling me bad town * one more townread on Shape * claims to have done "meta research" on Rels pregame, votes Rels * more vague stuff ("spidey senses", some more blabla)
This is at least my perception of what Tumble is doing so far. My observations. I can see the initial banter coming from town or from at least a certain level of "I don't care how I look". But that does not align with the "I prepared for Rels pregame" thing. Why would you banter if you even took the time and prepared (assuming he's town, of course) for a game? You should be more afraid of being scumread, right?
Next action, the famous "Calix is town and btdt is bad town" stuff. Claims to have a mind meld with Calix there but note the difference in the "bad town" timing that he and Calix have. It might very well be that Tumble simply followed thread sentiment, did some drive by posting, and then realized "ohshit, Calix ain't hard scumreading btdt". So he backed off of judging the Calix/btdt interaction, as everyone else did.
His townread on Shape is unexplained. But that's not alignment indicative. Nevertheless, it's always easier to say "uh this guy's probably town" as scum then committing to a real push.
Now to the interesting stuff. The pregame research on Rels. I have a hard time believeing that. Why? 1. The game was posted rather spontanously. 2. The game filled up really, really fast. 3. Why would you research on someone's meta in such a short period of time when you cannot possibly know whether you're rolling town or scum? 4. Why claim that research? Obviously, to gain town creds. "Uh, damn, I did something and it's useless because the guy is not there. Let's vote him!"
The vote on Rels in combination with three(!) townreads and a weird "I prepared" post really let's me think Tumble is mafia, trying to pile on a afk player (i.e. low hanging mislynch fruit for scum).
Summary: Tumble has done nothing thus far, he has not contributed any original thoughts, he parked his vote on an AFK person which he claims to have specifically prepared for. I think this is a highly scum-indicative behaviour.
This part is scummy. You say something he does is NAI the. Proceed to use it as reasoning to scum read TW. Either it's AI or it isn't-- but it makes no sense to claim that it's NAI then use it for AI purposes. Feels like shit clinging to me. Also spends half his post talking about this "meta research on Rels thing" like it's actually an important post. Words to say words Btdt hath been downgraded This part is not scummy. A single town read is not alignment indicative. Dropping THREE townreads and placing the vote on the one player where it is the most easy to do so while not doing anything IS alignment indicative. You're misunderstanding my post or misrepresenting it.
And OF COURSE I spend half my post talking about the meta research on Rels thing - because I think it's important. I tried to explain my thought process. You say it's an unimportant post but I find it highly important, especially in the context of the Rels vote. It has no other purpose then to put additional (uncnecessary) justification on his vote. I think this is mafia overjustifying a vote. Voting is mandatory and after all a commitment, and I and others already got called out for pressunring but not voting someone.
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I will be mislynched anyways. There's no way to circumvent this. As we're all split anyways on 100 wagons, I suppose we simply lynch me right now. Then you don't have to argue about me being town or not.
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Only question is will it be sooner or later. Every single player coming to this thread piles another scum read on me, ok fine, I fucked up, played badly, just lynch me and go ahead and try to solve the game.
I'm not really sure how I should continue to defend myself because apparently, whatever I do, I get scumread for it. It's just dumb.
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And before anyone comes up and says "drop some reads and contribute" well yeah, it's amazing to drop reads and thoughts if all that happens is that people get picky and try to interpret every single thing as "oh btdt is scum". People are not even trying to discuss what I'm saying, it's currently all about how I am scum. Okay, fine, but then commit and make me a wagon.
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And if I hear "bad town" some more times, I'll probably quit playing for a while. I think I got the point by now.
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On April 08 2017 01:36 Shapelog wrote:Scanning BTDT case: I read it and went to BTDT's filter to check something out + Show Spoiler [wasnt vaild since I missed a post he m…] +From BTDT case on tumble: This is at least my perception of what Tumble is doing so far. My observations. I can see the initial banter coming from town or from at least a certain level of "I don't care how I look". From BTDT earlier: On April 07 2017 01:58 beentheredonethat wrote: Actually reading Tumblewood's filter: there is NO (absolutely no!) contribution to the game. Just banter. Besides that easily to be made up post.
##vote Tumblewood do something So banter back then wasnt ok but is now seen as something that can come from a townie? Also reading back he actually took my point about mafia being able to throw together that post lol. but did find this actually: Show nested quote +well "doing something" at the current state of affairs would mean just to interact with people and drop opinions, right? darth and rels - yeah. We're not in policy range of things yet so... yeah.
Not sure how to proceed from here on. I am not townreading Koshi yet it's not the same as the last game we played, like there it was super obvious to me that he was scum. And I was right. Might've been just luck but it really felt like scum!Koshi. This time around, I'm not sure.
I'd just wish he'd put more effort into explaining stuff.
Calix -- hmm
the whole Calix Koshi Me thing and then with tumbleweed reiterating on it and shape commenting on it - it's of course easy to form a town circle of five but I don't dare to do that. oh and still, can someone explain what this "sucking up to rayn" thing means I dont understand the town circle comment looking back since he had tumble and calix in or around the scummy range a few posts back. Also Show nested quote + . It might very well be that Tumble simply followed thread sentiment, did some drive by posting, and then realized "ohshit, Calix ain't hard scumreading btdt". So he backed off of judging the Calix/btdt interaction, as everyone else did.
If he followed thread sentiment, which implies he read the thread, wouldn't he already know calix wasnt scum reading him on that level based off of what. So I dont understand this logic from it. Carrying on. I agree with the last bit - that's why I put a "could be" in front of it. It's hard to back cases up properly without speculating, after all it's a guessing game.
The town circle post came off the idea that if 5 out of 11 people are actively discussing without anyone hiding, it would be a good point to start a town circle. It's a nice idea but I didn't dare to form a town circle for obvious reasons, some of them being scumreads/leans.
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On April 08 2017 02:01 Koshi wrote: Dont be so negative btdt. This game has good players. We figure shit out. I do realize I'm being sensitive. It's weird, apparently I simply cannot handle a scumread.
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On April 08 2017 02:11 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 02:03 beentheredonethat wrote:On April 08 2017 01:36 Shapelog wrote:Scanning BTDT case: I read it and went to BTDT's filter to check something out + Show Spoiler [wasnt vaild since I missed a post he m…] +From BTDT case on tumble: This is at least my perception of what Tumble is doing so far. My observations. I can see the initial banter coming from town or from at least a certain level of "I don't care how I look". From BTDT earlier: On April 07 2017 01:58 beentheredonethat wrote: Actually reading Tumblewood's filter: there is NO (absolutely no!) contribution to the game. Just banter. Besides that easily to be made up post.
##vote Tumblewood do something So banter back then wasnt ok but is now seen as something that can come from a townie? Also reading back he actually took my point about mafia being able to throw together that post lol. but did find this actually: well "doing something" at the current state of affairs would mean just to interact with people and drop opinions, right? darth and rels - yeah. We're not in policy range of things yet so... yeah.
Not sure how to proceed from here on. I am not townreading Koshi yet it's not the same as the last game we played, like there it was super obvious to me that he was scum. And I was right. Might've been just luck but it really felt like scum!Koshi. This time around, I'm not sure.
I'd just wish he'd put more effort into explaining stuff.
Calix -- hmm
the whole Calix Koshi Me thing and then with tumbleweed reiterating on it and shape commenting on it - it's of course easy to form a town circle of five but I don't dare to do that. oh and still, can someone explain what this "sucking up to rayn" thing means I dont understand the town circle comment looking back since he had tumble and calix in or around the scummy range a few posts back. Also . It might very well be that Tumble simply followed thread sentiment, did some drive by posting, and then realized "ohshit, Calix ain't hard scumreading btdt". So he backed off of judging the Calix/btdt interaction, as everyone else did.
If he followed thread sentiment, which implies he read the thread, wouldn't he already know calix wasnt scum reading him on that level based off of what. So I dont understand this logic from it. Carrying on. I agree with the last bit - that's why I put a "could be" in front of it. It's hard to back cases up properly without speculating, after all it's a guessing game. The town circle post came off the idea that if 5 out of 11 people are actively discussing without anyone hiding, it would be a good point to start a town circle. It's a nice idea but I didn't dare to form a town circle for obvious reasons, some of them being scumreads/leans. I do actually have a question I want you to pitch in regarding tumble and thread sentiment. How does this post feel to you regarding thread sentiment? Show nested quote +nah I'm pretty content with having three reads that I think are right with as little as has happened so far and what ever happened to that push on koshi Tbh, when you say town circle, everyone you mention automatically goes green for your reads in my eyes. That bolded bit is related to my initial push on Koshi, right? If anything, I'd say it's tackling my initial comment on something being pushworthy, so subtly calling me out.
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On April 08 2017 02:18 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 01:54 beentheredonethat wrote:On April 07 2017 22:24 darthfoley wrote:On April 07 2017 18:55 beentheredonethat wrote: The whole sicklucker Rayn argument is getting out of hand, all the while everyone else gets away with doing nothing, specifically speaking of Tumblewood.
Like, what is Tumble even doing?
* starts the game with seven posts which are absolutely irrelevant banter * puts up three posts that have somewhat of game relevance (but then, no follow up, so that renders his questions pointless) * enters thread again, claims a mind meld, drops a townread for that on calix * his mind meld is scumreading me for exactly what Calix said, pretty much following thread sentiment * BUT ends up calling me bad town * one more townread on Shape * claims to have done "meta research" on Rels pregame, votes Rels * more vague stuff ("spidey senses", some more blabla)
This is at least my perception of what Tumble is doing so far. My observations. I can see the initial banter coming from town or from at least a certain level of "I don't care how I look". But that does not align with the "I prepared for Rels pregame" thing. Why would you banter if you even took the time and prepared (assuming he's town, of course) for a game? You should be more afraid of being scumread, right?
Next action, the famous "Calix is town and btdt is bad town" stuff. Claims to have a mind meld with Calix there but note the difference in the "bad town" timing that he and Calix have. It might very well be that Tumble simply followed thread sentiment, did some drive by posting, and then realized "ohshit, Calix ain't hard scumreading btdt". So he backed off of judging the Calix/btdt interaction, as everyone else did.
His townread on Shape is unexplained. But that's not alignment indicative. Nevertheless, it's always easier to say "uh this guy's probably town" as scum then committing to a real push.
Now to the interesting stuff. The pregame research on Rels. I have a hard time believeing that. Why? 1. The game was posted rather spontanously. 2. The game filled up really, really fast. 3. Why would you research on someone's meta in such a short period of time when you cannot possibly know whether you're rolling town or scum? 4. Why claim that research? Obviously, to gain town creds. "Uh, damn, I did something and it's useless because the guy is not there. Let's vote him!"
The vote on Rels in combination with three(!) townreads and a weird "I prepared" post really let's me think Tumble is mafia, trying to pile on a afk player (i.e. low hanging mislynch fruit for scum).
Summary: Tumble has done nothing thus far, he has not contributed any original thoughts, he parked his vote on an AFK person which he claims to have specifically prepared for. I think this is a highly scum-indicative behaviour.
This part is scummy. You say something he does is NAI the. Proceed to use it as reasoning to scum read TW. Either it's AI or it isn't-- but it makes no sense to claim that it's NAI then use it for AI purposes. Feels like shit clinging to me. Also spends half his post talking about this "meta research on Rels thing" like it's actually an important post. Words to say words Btdt hath been downgraded This part is not scummy. A single town read is not alignment indicative. Dropping THREE townreads and placing the vote on the one player where it is the most easy to do so while not doing anything IS alignment indicative. You're misunderstanding my post or misrepresenting it. And OF COURSE I spend half my post talking about the meta research on Rels thing - because I think it's important. I tried to explain my thought process. You say it's an unimportant post but I find it highly important, especially in the context of the Rels vote. It has no other purpose then to put additional (uncnecessary) justification on his vote. I think this is mafia overjustifying a vote. Voting is mandatory and after all a commitment, and I and others already got called out for pressunring but not voting someone. I'm not misrepresenting you. You were specifically talking about his town read of Shapelog when you made the NAI comment. What am I missing?
I think:
1 townread (shapelog), standalone, is NAI. 3 townreads, in the context of doing nothing else and voting an AFK, is scummy.
More specific: [quote=darthfoley]You say something he does is NAI the. Proceed to use it as reasoning to scum read TW. Either it's AI or it isn't-- but it makes no sense to claim that it's NAI then use it for AI purposes. Feels like shit clinging to me.[/quote]
I say "Tumblewood townreads Shapelog" as a description of the act that is happening. This action, without context and standalone, is not alignment indicative. But in the context of two more townreads and a AFK vote that is explained in a really weird way, I think it's scum indicative.
Is it clear now?
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On April 08 2017 02:22 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 02:21 beentheredonethat wrote:On April 08 2017 02:11 Shapelog wrote:On April 08 2017 02:03 beentheredonethat wrote:On April 08 2017 01:36 Shapelog wrote:Scanning BTDT case: I read it and went to BTDT's filter to check something out + Show Spoiler [wasnt vaild since I missed a post he m…] +From BTDT case on tumble: This is at least my perception of what Tumble is doing so far. My observations. I can see the initial banter coming from town or from at least a certain level of "I don't care how I look". From BTDT earlier: On April 07 2017 01:58 beentheredonethat wrote: Actually reading Tumblewood's filter: there is NO (absolutely no!) contribution to the game. Just banter. Besides that easily to be made up post.
##vote Tumblewood do something So banter back then wasnt ok but is now seen as something that can come from a townie? Also reading back he actually took my point about mafia being able to throw together that post lol. but did find this actually: well "doing something" at the current state of affairs would mean just to interact with people and drop opinions, right? darth and rels - yeah. We're not in policy range of things yet so... yeah.
Not sure how to proceed from here on. I am not townreading Koshi yet it's not the same as the last game we played, like there it was super obvious to me that he was scum. And I was right. Might've been just luck but it really felt like scum!Koshi. This time around, I'm not sure.
I'd just wish he'd put more effort into explaining stuff.
Calix -- hmm
the whole Calix Koshi Me thing and then with tumbleweed reiterating on it and shape commenting on it - it's of course easy to form a town circle of five but I don't dare to do that. oh and still, can someone explain what this "sucking up to rayn" thing means I dont understand the town circle comment looking back since he had tumble and calix in or around the scummy range a few posts back. Also . It might very well be that Tumble simply followed thread sentiment, did some drive by posting, and then realized "ohshit, Calix ain't hard scumreading btdt". So he backed off of judging the Calix/btdt interaction, as everyone else did.
If he followed thread sentiment, which implies he read the thread, wouldn't he already know calix wasnt scum reading him on that level based off of what. So I dont understand this logic from it. Carrying on. I agree with the last bit - that's why I put a "could be" in front of it. It's hard to back cases up properly without speculating, after all it's a guessing game. The town circle post came off the idea that if 5 out of 11 people are actively discussing without anyone hiding, it would be a good point to start a town circle. It's a nice idea but I didn't dare to form a town circle for obvious reasons, some of them being scumreads/leans. I do actually have a question I want you to pitch in regarding tumble and thread sentiment. How does this post feel to you regarding thread sentiment? nah I'm pretty content with having three reads that I think are right with as little as has happened so far and what ever happened to that push on koshi Tbh, when you say town circle, everyone you mention automatically goes green for your reads in my eyes. That bolded bit is related to my initial push on Koshi, right? If anything, I'd say it's tackling my initial comment on something being pushworthy, so subtly calling me out. No that is tumble's post I know and in this post, tumble says something in relation to my initial push on Koshi.
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Switching to Calix feels like the easy choice though. Mainly because she isn't around I'm not a big fan. Policy lynch on Rels doesn't feel good, either.
Or, we could consolidate on Tumblewood.
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On April 08 2017 03:42 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 03:29 darthfoley wrote:On April 08 2017 03:18 Shapelog wrote:On April 08 2017 03:13 darthfoley wrote: Especially with the shitty deadline for EU time Deadline for me is 9:30 pm so it works well by the time I have to start a new job next week. Well yea it works for me but I think there's only like 3 NA players Me, you, Tumblewood (West), BTDT (?), and SL (Canada) I'm based in Germany.
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I like Shape's posts. They seem to make sense. Then again they also seem to always summarize what others do/did and they might lack original value.
I'm too tired right now to really dive Shape's filter and check but it might be an incentive for [insert whoever is willing to do the work]
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What's really bad though is that Tumblewood says that Shapelog bugs him. That's exactly how I would express my current stance on him, he's a bit too nice to be real, isn't he.
Koshi let go of pressuring me, too. Ironically enough that bothers me, too. He's also not really convincing anyone of doing a thing. And the 96 hours absence really bothers me; not a big fan. If I'd be a host, I'd pretty much try to get a replacement or modkill since my voting law says "mandatory to vote". I don't know how Koshi will not be dead after let's say 48+24 hours.
Koshi why did you sign up if you knew you'd be gone for so long?
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