[T][M] Resistance VI - Page 8

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 07 2017 18:29 GMT

#1263

So I just talked to silverwolf (still phone) but she is saying she is not scum reading vivax nor grack right now.

If she is going to scum read them it would not be for the "oh they did suboptimal play"

In fact, she's town reading them for independent reasons do what you are saying is "suboptimal" and has explained it many times over.

She is driving us home but she can explain proper because I might end up butchering what she was saying to me cus I am a terrible explainer like that

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 07 2017 18:42 GMT

#1266

On February 08 2017 03:32 RtaniSoul wrote:
I'm going to laugh if this mission just ends up passing and the scumteam has been trolling us.

Me and sw have just been discussing that actually.

Litarly I'm going "it would be hilarious to just fuck with people as spy who lost the game"

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 07 2017 18:43 GMT

#1267

Also silverwolf wants Arby's does anyone have a suggestion for food?

(She's gonna be annoyed at me for this post)

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 07 2017 18:47 GMT

#1268

Nvm it's Perkins now someone suggest something to order.

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 07 2017 20:53 GMT

#1274

On February 08 2017 05:32 emperorchampion wrote:

Show nested quote +

Arby's has things other than curly fries??

Delicious Roast Beef sandwiches. Yum................

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 07 2017 20:54 GMT

#1275

On February 08 2017 05:53 Silverika wrote:

Show nested quote +

Delicious Roast Beef sandwiches. Yum................

~Silverwolf77

(She forgot to sign)

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 07 2017 21:09 GMT

#1276

On February 08 2017 03:14 sharkie wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 08 2017 03:02 Silverika wrote:

On February 08 2017 02:35 sharkie wrote:

On February 08 2017 00:31 sharkie wrote:

On February 08 2017 00:29 Silverika wrote:

On February 08 2017 00:06 sharkie wrote:

On February 07 2017 23:58 Silverika wrote:

On February 07 2017 23:54 sharkie wrote:

On February 07 2017 23:54 Silverika wrote:

On February 07 2017 23:49 RtaniSoul wrote:
[quote]
You people keep using this logic and it doesn't work because it presumes that people have 100% townreads on the other people in the mission AND it presumes that failing a mission to identify a spy is worth it.

Even if he was 100% on both you and grack, look at it from his situation. If vivax is mafia, he learns that Vivax is mafia whilst the rest of the thread (given thread sentiment) all believe HE is the spy. He knows Vivax is mafia but it doesn't help him in the slightest because he cannot convince the rest of the game of it. A mission is failed and a townie is left out of any further consideration, a disastrous result.

you start with false premises and you end with wrong conclusions.

grack town read vivax and has a record of it and vice versa

so FMPOV and many other IMO they would have to argue one of two cases

a) both are scum
b) one is fooling the other

thats only in the scum!vivax world cus thats seems to be your angle

What do you mean grack "has a record of it"?

reading vivax right

Please tell me you have more things to back you up except past games... Because that is the worst proof you can have for social deduction games...
Also what is wifom?

If you've been reading our posts, we don't think grack would of passed the mission as a spy because they could of blamed you for it easily.

Vivax's play and behavior this game does not makes sense coming from scum which we've explained in detail and was the reason we sent him on the mission.

The Vivax/Grack towread theory is very simple. Unless they are on the same team, their townread of each other is worth noting because they have a history of being able to read each other correctly. Is it the only reason we would use to townread either of them? Absolutely not. But it does play a small factor.

~SilverWolf77

Passing the first mission does not make sense for sharkie as a spy either, using that same logic of yours...

I am still waiting on a counter for this one, silver...
You keep saying vivax is resistance because if he were a spy he would be playing sub-optimally. But in the same breath you accuse me of being a spy but not considering that if I were one I acted sub-optimally on the first mission by not failing it.

Note please that I am not using this argument to defend myself. It would be very hypocritical of me to do that. All I am saying is that you can't apply your logic on one case but refuse to do it on the other one. That is a very inconsistent line of thinking...

I feel like you are misreading silvers post in question here. You can't really ask this line of question either without a indirect or direct use of it becoming a defense of yourself.

She not once has said that vivax as spy is playing suboptimal. Now I might be misreading the context in witch case you can clarify to me because she is busy right now.

If you want my personal take, vivax!spy not sending himself on first mission while having a mass of town cred is suboptimal.

You not failing the first mission has a two way street cus of resistance theory, many argue to sabbo/not sabbo first mission as spy for diffrent reasons. It's more of a belief system of what you think is right at that point.

If your point still stands I'll let her respond on the issue but I feel like you are trying to aregue a smatical thing instead of the direct point. Because both things being applied are diffrent in nature

A different example then to make it clearer for you.

You say Grack cannot be spy because if they had been they would have abused the fact that I was on the team and just failed the mission to put the blame on me. Thus, a passed mission #1 = grack resistance for you. Because them planning to fail mission #1 would be sub-optimal for you.

But then don't you think that sharkie, the spy would have come to the same conclusion and rather risked failing mission #1 instead of giving grack/silver more credibility, just to fail mission #2? That should be sub-optimal play for you too.

What I am trying to say is whoever you accuse of being a spy between us 2 (sharkie, grack) must have done sub-optimal play for you so you cannot use that argument to defend or accuse either one of us.

Again: I am neither accusing grack of being a spy (as RT said if he had been a spy he would have jumped on the sharkie/RT hate bandwagon) nor am I using this to defend myself! I just want to realise that this line of thinking is flawed.

No, actually a spy passing the first mission is something I've actually seen before because there are only 3 people on it and it's too easy to draw attention to yourself. Failing it with 4 people is better play so you passing the mission doesn't seem like suboptmal play at all no matter your alignment.

Grack if spy, would be making a terrible move to not sabotage the mission with you and us on it because it would be very easy to blame you. Grack has also been putting forward some pretty townie posts recently and trying to figure out teams so I'm inclinded to townread him right now.

What I was saying in regards to Vivax is, he kept himself off a mission he could easily sabotage and blame you for, he put forward a mission that passed, he wanted to put Rtani Soul instead of you on this next one to cop check him. The only way he's scum there, is if Grack or Rtani Soul is on the same team and that absolutely makes no sense based on the interactions in this game. If they are engaging in brilliant scum theatre, good for them I guess. He kept up a hard townread of us and Grack, he called you an IC earlier in the game. This gives him very little wiggle room if he's scum here yet he still approved the mission.

I look for motivation. I don't see spy motivation in Vivax's actions. Now, if the mission fails, I'll re-evaluate because there are some posts here that make you look pretty town as well. Your no vote here and saying you wanted to just start the no vote trend again for info or whatever threw me for a loop when this is a perfect opportunity for town you to figure out Vivax. And when you and Rtani Soul starting defending each other, it gave me the heebie geebies.

But until we get an absolute pass or fail, I don't really see the point in speculating too hard.

Also, I'm a lazy fucker and don't want to do all the work of re-evaluating everyone if I don't have to.

~SilverWolf77

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 08 2017 13:14 GMT

#1328

I think EC is a spy because he never takes a hard stand on anything. Most of his comments are very blendy and he doesn't stick out on anything.

Rtani Soul is very Town. Not only because of the amount of analysis in the game, but the tone of the posting, the level of frustration, and they make no sense as scum with anyone on the failed mission.

I thought Grack would never fail a mission with sharkie there to take the fall but I'm gonna stop using this kind of stuff to analyze and actually filter dive grack more. There are things from sharkie and Vivax that look pretty Town so I can't write either of them off as spies.

Also, I want to look at that old resistance game so many of you were in. Will do this in a little bit-filter dive grack and look at that game.

~SilverWolf77

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 08 2017 23:24 GMT

#1413

The fact that grack announced how he was gonna vote last time and this time raises huge alarm bells considering we already said NOT to do that before and he's ignoring it.

He's made a comment he's not gonna say his vote earlier in the game. I'll look this up later and quote it all. I gotta go pick up my daughter. I've also been sick so I'll do my best to filter grack today and look at that resistance game.

I'll try to find some scum games of ours too as a hydra.

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 01:19 GMT

#1415

On January 28 2017 03:33 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm going to keep my vote a secret.

Why make this post at the beginning of the game if you don't give a shit about keeping your votes secret?

Glad you don't care to make optimal town play here but I do. Even if it becomes obvious how we are gonna vote, announcing it in the game is never a protown move. Why give info to scum and help them coordinate what to do?

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 01:53 GMT

#1416

Here's 3 hydra scum games of ours:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=64698

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38207-M-FM-Fringe-Alternate-Universe
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38206-M-FM-Fringe-Prime-Universe
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38762-S-FM-219-Lazy

We were Anxiety Attack in the top one, Moogle in the second one (3 links)

And Empathy17 in the third.

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 07:10 GMT

#1418

Sharkie-we gave those scum games cuz grackeroni asked.

Also, ika and I have been talking about it and we are moving you to the town pike with Rtani Soul. Your posts are just very genuine and have a real new town feel.

Deciding between grack and vivax is giving me a migraine. Reading that game Artani Soul linked and Vivax was town in, his tone there and here is very similar as well as his input into the game. I also like some of his analysis this game and I don't see him making such a show of keeping himself off a team he could easily put himself on with no fuss. I just think he's town but it's not as strong as the other two townreads.

That game ArtaniSoul linked-I mean sl had 25 page filter and was clearly putting in effort trying to figure out the game, here he just isn't doing much. I just can't get a townread here even though it would make things so much easier if I could.

The problem I have with any grack meta is I don't have any. I don't know how he plays as scum. Because there is one spy on the 4 man mission, I'm PoEing it out to him. I don't like his inconsistency with the votes and the way he's hard townread us all game and now says it increasingly likely we are the scum. Oh really? And why is that? You don't know how we play as scum, you don't know how sharkie would either. You just got done saying Vivax is scum not that long ago also after townreading him all game. You got a sudden boner for sharkie after not trusting him all game and I think it's because we've been saying all game you'd blame him if the mission fails. You aren't really getting support for Vivax scum from those who have played with him so now it's our turn even though we've done nothing since your hard townread of us to suddenly make it increasingly likely we are scum. But we are a fairly easy target. After all, we have no meta here and were on the failed mission. Other than that, has he even given a reason?

tl/dr-he's not explaining his shifting reads in a way that I can understand or that makes sense

Unfortunately, TW and EC are so under the radar I don't know what to make of them. I think EC being super blendy, noncommittal and unable to be read easily is more scum than town. TW has been absent from so much of the thread that it's hard to say they are town for sure at this point.

So putting grack as the spy on the mission with two of EC, SL, TW makes the most sense to me. The rest are town.

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 08:04 GMT

#1420

Sharkie-I already said I think he did it because everyone has been saying all game he'd go after you as a spy. I don't understand his shifting reads. I'm also townreading Artani Soul as one of my top reads so I don't think that team combination makes sense. I don't think fracks shifting reads make a lot of sense. I wish I could give you more to say Vivax is clearly Town. He's a weakercread than you or Rtani Soul but I'm not seeing much spy motivation in his behavior and his tone/analysis leans Town.

Can you go over your scumread of him with me again?

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 08:05 GMT

#1421

Holy mobile posting errors

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 09:01 GMT

#1422

Actually sharkie, you told us earlier not to judge anyone based on what a spy should or shouldn't do but base our reads on their play. So I'd actually like you to explain why you are so hardcore defending and townreading grack when earlier in the game you were questioning why he was being put up for so many missions. Also, you have to understand that we don't all play like you and your friends and you should stop comparing the two.

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 09:03 GMT

#1423

*hardcore defending grack based on what a spy should or shouldn't do

Also, weren't you the one who said spies can resistance read a person and we shouldn't be townreading a person based on their read on us? Didn't you just do that with grack?

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 09:22 GMT

#1424

Basically sharkie why aren't you holding yourself to the same standard as you put forth for the rest of us?

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 10:17 GMT

#1428

So grack being a townread based on his defense of you being suicidal goes against you saying we shouldn't townread people based on how a spy would or wouldn't behave.

Anyway, I'm gonna have to pull quotes since you are accusing me of saying you are doing things you aren't. I'm mobile posting and will have to do it later.

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 10:29 GMT

#1430

Sharkie I have two comments to your big post.

First, did Vivax have suspicion of grack all game and can you quote that? I thought they were townreading each other until grack turned on Vivax.

But the number one most important thing I want you to address and is the biggest reason ika and I don't think he's a spy is:

-He put forward an all Town team as a spy and left himself off when he easily could of added himself.

-He risks ika and I adding another Town member to the team-he has no way of knowing we would pick him and make a gamethrowing mistake as a spy.

Just why would any spy do that?

~SW

Silverika

United States231 Posts

February 09 2017 10:30 GMT

#1432

You mention it's the biggest point though, it's irrelevant that you don't care for it. You mentioned it twice.

If you think it should not be a reason you should not mention it.

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