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On November 07 2016 19:20 Rels wrote:
Calix, since one of your point is taht I hang back and only does thing that are not impactful, did you check any of my scumgames ?
I've read one but it wasn't really a mafia game. It was some game where you had to send off players on 'missions' or something like that. I think you were scum there anyway...with Xatalos and Artanis if I remember correctly?
If you want to link me to a few of your actual scum games then I will read and get back to you on that.
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Also I need to write this essay so I am going to postpone this conversation for now since it's hard to focus on that and on considering your points at the same time.
So yeah, do whatever in the meantime.
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On November 07 2016 19:23 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 19:14 Rels wrote:On November 07 2016 19:06 Calix wrote:On November 07 2016 18:55 Rels wrote:On November 07 2016 18:21 Calix wrote:And again, if you thought that the following post was shitty then why wouldn't that be part of your "Calix could be scum" narrative...? Did you think it was shitty in a town-motivated way or what? (also I'd like your response to the discussion about it that followed + the discussion that followed on from when NU said "Rels' reaction to ExO at EOD was suspicious") On November 05 2016 07:12 Calix wrote:
Okay so here's what I think. I don't see anything that really gives me town vibes from Rels, he's in my POE reads and I don't really like him. Kind of want to sleep soon so have some bulletpoints:
1. He feels like he has an agenda with his posts. I get this impression from how strongly he emphasises certain points compared to others. It's like he's trying to achieve X but is also trying to hide that he's trying to achieve X. Examples that pinged me include the following
A) his town-read on me. He really wanted me to know about that. Nobody really needed like, four reasons for why I am town when nobody scum-read me at all at that point and it's not like I need to be defended. Terrible priorities at best, scum pocketing me at worst.
B) his town-read on Foreman. He defends Foreman because of his tone which I'm noting because I don't think he's ever used tone to read anyone else and he seems really invested in that read. This is a very weak point by itself but I'm wondering if it's an example of Rels showing inherent bias when reading players.
c) his discredits of Skynx. I'm referring to EOD where he was saying "well Skynx defending ExO isn't a town tell because Skynx would be aware of how that would look to everyone so it's null" which pinged me because he scum-read ExO so why the fuck would he care about how ExO read Skynx if he thinks ExO is mafia? And who thinks that saying "well this thing that you think is townie is actually null" is a good idea BEFORE someone has flipped anyway? I think Rels knew that ExO would flip town and didn't want Skynx getting town cred for defending the ML.
2. His progression with ExO/ darthfoley. While Rels is attacking darthfoley consistently, he didn't have a problem with switching to ExO by making a case. What's the problem there? ExO was already the leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that. And he kept that reasoning in mind but I don't get why he felt the need to switch to ExO when he had that VT claim town-read and felt that DF was scummier. Yep this post is shitty but I don't think it's particulary scummy. If you want t aresponse: A) There is no point here. I'm attentive to any towntells you might have 'cause you're a very good scum players. B) Dunno what to say about that. I thought foreman was town because of his tone. It was not a strong read. C) An example of a shitty narrative. I said what I thought, you are making it fit into a scum motivation. 2) OK this might be scummy. This is false : "he leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that." My reasonning for gradually scumreading ExO is super clear so there is nothing weird about it. You're stretching your point here to again making it fit to a scum motivation, but this time you're not telling the truth. You don't understand why I switched to ExO ? Okay but that doesn't explain why you didn't acknowledge it to begin with...? A) My point is that you over-emphasised your town read on me for no reason and it looks like pocketing. How is that not a point? And do you think I just made up those 'town tells' now or something? B) You said "I think his tone is super townie" - this isn't a strong read HOW? I notice that you are now shying away from the strong language that you used at the start of the game between voting for ExO, calling me 'almost lock town' and now backing away from that and claiming that your Foreman read 'wasn't a strong one'. I'm calling bullshit here. Your strongest stances at present are "NU/ TT are obvious town" and "Skynx is scummy" which are obvious and unoriginal stances. C) No, I demand an explanation. What the fuck were you trying to achieve with those posts about Skynx at EOD? 2. Where is the falsehood? You were one of the last voters. Your vote wasn't required to lynch ExO and you haven't said why you felt that you had to vote for him. You had previously stated a town-read on ExO. There was no need to make a case like that and vote for him, that is my point. A) This is not a point because it is not scummy. And no the towntells are still here hence why I townrean you. Not as strongly as others though. B) This isn't a strong read period. There were D1 reads. Unless you make the point that people read shouldn't change during the game then you have no point. C) I already explained it: "I said what I thought". There is no more to it. 2) So ? I scumread ExO and I wanted him lynched at EOD. If I didn't scumread ExO I would have fought for another lynch. Since I scumread ExO I was OK with the lynch. Saying that I did it only to ... IDK what's your point actually, being in the spotlight for being the last voter, is a shitty narrative. If you think my ExO read was useless, qoute my posts about hima nd prove it. A) "It's not scummy" BUT HOW IS IT TOWNIE? What is your fucking problem? It's seriously not hard to just tell me why you felt that several posts emphasising my town alignment when nobody was doubting this was necessary. If you're town, you must have had some town-motivated reason for doing this, yes? B) I don't get what you are saying here. So it WAS a strong read for you or are you saying that you exaggerated your reads because it was Day 1? My point still stands about your boring, unoriginal viewpoints as of late. C) "I said what I thought" isn't an explanation. I don't understand why a townie would go around and say "Skynx's defense of ExO says nothing about ExO's alignment/ Skynx isn't confirmed town if ExO is town" and all that. Instead of explaining it to me, you're shutting me down by saying "well it's just my opinion man". 2) You are missing the point, perhaps intentionally since I don't think you're a complete moron. But sure, I will look at your ExO posts later.
A) You are annoying me.
First, YOU ARE THE ONE TRYING TO FIND SCUMMY THINGS ON ME. I don't have to prove that ajnything I did was townie, YOU have to prove it is scummy.
Second, I posted several things that make me think you were town. There is nothing scummy - or townie - about it. Now you're sticking to it, and it's super different to how you dropped your TT scumread after he made a few posts.
B) I didn't exagerate my read, I thought foreman was pretty townie because of his tone. It was on early D1, his play since then has been so useless I don't think he's town anymore.
C) Well that is the explanation. I replied to NU who was saying ExO was town because of the white knight. I didn't agree, I didn't want Skynx to be lyncehd over ExO, I posted this.
2) I can't miss a point that isn't there. Me being the last voter on the mislynch is not a scum tell, UNLESS you're saying I did it for no reason. In comparison, Skynx hard townreading ExO during EOD is not scummy by itself; but the fact that his reasons are super bad is scummy.
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On November 07 2016 19:26 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 19:20 Rels wrote:
Calix, since one of your point is taht I hang back and only does thing that are not impactful, did you check any of my scumgames ? I've read one but it wasn't really a mafia game. It was some game where you had to send off players on 'missions' or something like that. I think you were scum there anyway...with Xatalos and Artanis if I remember correctly? If you want to link me to a few of your actual scum games then I will read and get back to you on that.
Click on my profile
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Okay never mind, that took me less time than I thought it would. But I'm still going to drop it for now since you seem annoyed and I'm probably not going to take your responses that seriously until I've had the chance to have a break, clear my mind and reread and blah blah blah.
Although given that I didn't look up your scum games earlier, I can almost relate to you being annoyed because that was retarded of me. And I did that with TT so not sure why that didn't occur to me to do the same with you earlier.
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On November 07 2016 20:01 Rels wrote:
Joy
Don't know what you're talking about. I am delightful to argue with.
Any other insights you want to share while you're here?
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On November 07 2016 20:03 Calix wrote:Don't know what you're talking about. I am delightful to argue with. Any other insights you want to share while you're here?
That you're willing to reconsider stuff p:
Nope, I'm in the middle of something actually, I didn't plan on playing mafia this morning. I didn't reread anything since I went to sleep
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On November 07 2016 09:21 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 09:20 Skynx wrote:On November 07 2016 09:12 Rels wrote:On November 07 2016 09:10 Skynx wrote:
Yeah I actually like TT. Rels I'm not sure about you, you're still focused on EoD. So ? That's when you made like 2 third of your filter and your most unexplainable posts. You have my reasons on why Exo wasn't mafia. I'm not sure what's bothering you here. I had that one game where I moved away from a Moosy lynch, hard defending him and he flipped red. This stuff happens, as long as you have a reason. Link me the game please. I don't believe your reasons were natural. They didn't feel like it. I don't think you even used a single post of ExO to defend him.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/511409-onegu-is-the-best-host-mafia
I was thinking of Moosy in presidental election but its actually emperor in onegu mafia. One of the players im most comfortable metaing here, i scumread early on but towards eod i retract my read without much othrr than tone. He ends up scum even tho game is prematurely finished. My progress there is even worse if you are looking for one, what i mean is its not a scumtell.
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On November 07 2016 20:05 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 20:03 Calix wrote:On November 07 2016 20:01 Rels wrote:
Joy Don't know what you're talking about. I am delightful to argue with. Any other insights you want to share while you're here? That you're willing to reconsider stuff p: Nope, I'm in the middle of something actually, I didn't plan on playing mafia this morning. I didn't reread anything since I went to sleep
Well yeah, it would be dumb to not reconsider on someone like you given that you are not a completely shit player. Just ignore my hypocrisy since you might have been doing that as town with me, lol.
If there's nothing more to be said then I'm going to be looking at your meta now.
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On November 07 2016 09:35 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 09:32 Rels wrote:
I don't have a lot of reasons to scumread Foreman. But I have reasons to townread everyone else to varying degrees (or in DF case, I don't think he can be Skynx partner) and my tone read of Foreman at the beginning of the game doesn't hold up to the amount of nothing he's doing right now.
The only thing that is maybe scummy is that he had only weak interactions with Skynx at some points, but there is a lot of Skynx talk in his filter: he voted him, and he had several posts that either talked about him, or talked about people read of Skynx. Can't remember who posted that first but I read something about it when catching up and it's true.
Might be a partner tell but it's quite weak. It's not that bad. Also, notice how Skynx decides he is going to case Foreman now that he's been completely AFK? It's almost as if he wants to be part of the wagon to bus if Foreman is scum. Why Calix now?
You know what fuck this. I spent 4 hours writing and reading i don't need to see this toxic shit when i wake up.
Go ahead and lynch me i don't give a fuck get me out of this game pls its not fun for me. Also go ahead and assign my emo behavior with my scum meta yeye idc really i just want out. GG im town.
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Lol can't vote myself...
##Unvote
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On November 07 2016 20:08 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 09:21 Rels wrote:On November 07 2016 09:20 Skynx wrote:On November 07 2016 09:12 Rels wrote:On November 07 2016 09:10 Skynx wrote:
Yeah I actually like TT. Rels I'm not sure about you, you're still focused on EoD. So ? That's when you made like 2 third of your filter and your most unexplainable posts. You have my reasons on why Exo wasn't mafia. I'm not sure what's bothering you here. I had that one game where I moved away from a Moosy lynch, hard defending him and he flipped red. This stuff happens, as long as you have a reason. Link me the game please. I don't believe your reasons were natural. They didn't feel like it. I don't think you even used a single post of ExO to defend him. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/511409-onegu-is-the-best-host-mafiaI was thinking of Moosy in presidental election but its actually emperor in onegu mafia. One of the players im most comfortable metaing here, i scumread early on but towards eod i retract my read without much othrr than tone. He ends up scum even tho game is prematurely finished. My progress there is even worse if you are looking for one, what i mean is its not a scumtell.
Mm. Hard to judge but I'm not convinced by it. You didn't feel the need to explain yourself with a lot of reasons, just stated "I think emperor is actually town" and went with it in that game.
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On November 07 2016 20:11 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 09:35 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 07 2016 09:32 Rels wrote:
I don't have a lot of reasons to scumread Foreman. But I have reasons to townread everyone else to varying degrees (or in DF case, I don't think he can be Skynx partner) and my tone read of Foreman at the beginning of the game doesn't hold up to the amount of nothing he's doing right now.
The only thing that is maybe scummy is that he had only weak interactions with Skynx at some points, but there is a lot of Skynx talk in his filter: he voted him, and he had several posts that either talked about him, or talked about people read of Skynx. Can't remember who posted that first but I read something about it when catching up and it's true.
Might be a partner tell but it's quite weak. It's not that bad. Also, notice how Skynx decides he is going to case Foreman now that he's been completely AFK? It's almost as if he wants to be part of the wagon to bus if Foreman is scum. Why Calix now? You know what fuck this. I spent 4 hours writing and reading i don't need to see this toxic shit when i wake up. Go ahead and lynch me i don't give a fuck get me out of this game pls its not fun for me. Also go ahead and assign my emo behavior with my scum meta yeye idc really i just want out. GG im town.
Actually yeah, I read your filter from dota 2 a few days ago and I remember emo posts like that.
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On November 07 2016 20:38 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 20:11 Skynx wrote:On November 07 2016 09:35 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 07 2016 09:32 Rels wrote:
I don't have a lot of reasons to scumread Foreman. But I have reasons to townread everyone else to varying degrees (or in DF case, I don't think he can be Skynx partner) and my tone read of Foreman at the beginning of the game doesn't hold up to the amount of nothing he's doing right now.
The only thing that is maybe scummy is that he had only weak interactions with Skynx at some points, but there is a lot of Skynx talk in his filter: he voted him, and he had several posts that either talked about him, or talked about people read of Skynx. Can't remember who posted that first but I read something about it when catching up and it's true.
Might be a partner tell but it's quite weak. It's not that bad. Also, notice how Skynx decides he is going to case Foreman now that he's been completely AFK? It's almost as if he wants to be part of the wagon to bus if Foreman is scum. Why Calix now? You know what fuck this. I spent 4 hours writing and reading i don't need to see this toxic shit when i wake up. Go ahead and lynch me i don't give a fuck get me out of this game pls its not fun for me. Also go ahead and assign my emo behavior with my scum meta yeye idc really i just want out. GG im town. Actually yeah, I read your filter from dota 2 a few days ago and I remember emo posts like that.
This is going to sound strange but his post reminded me of HM 3 where Skynx/ NU got into an argument. Specifically this post:
On September 10 2016 03:39 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 10 2016 03:15 Skynx wrote:
3 ppl spend 3 pages discussing simplest mechanics literally.
You get lynched, you can cop check for that night. Once per game only one of those who get lynched can vigi shot instead of a check.
You get nk'd, you can protect someone following night.
Anyway don't want to stir up mechanics discussion again but might aswell put my stance on it.
I mean write whatever you want on your message, it can get manipulated so doesn't really matter what you put in it. However dead can decide on their collective vote accordingly to the message, if it is unchanged then their vote will be manipulated that they know for sure. If it is changed then you know your vote is safe. All of this is obvious and has already been said. Looks like a filler/fluff post. I'm so close to ignoring you forever. Shall i just lend you my password and let you play from my account? Anything I write seems to be inadequate for your whatever righteousness-o-meter. I let you know how I'm playing, I read through and comment on what I like and you keep saying "that's been mentioned", "fluff/filler post" whatever. As i said those 3 literally spent 3 pages filling their filter with stuff about mechanics and you call this one post useless.
tl;dr: Skynx telling NU to STFU was way more townie that game than here.
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Also I've only skimmed a few pages of Rels' filter in 72hrs. I'm not super-convinced since he seems to play very similarly as both alignments (from what I've seen so far) but I noticed that a) his points against players are basic as fuck, b) he throws more shade/ doubt than he does here, c) is more malleable.
Well I got point b from that JAT game but that's just from opening posts because no way am I reading 29 fucking pages.
Not really sure what Rels' point is unless he's saying "I am capable of making cases on lynchbait as scum and I'm not doing that here"
Which would make sense...given that's a reason that he town-reads me.
lmao
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On November 07 2016 20:11 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 09:35 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 07 2016 09:32 Rels wrote:
I don't have a lot of reasons to scumread Foreman. But I have reasons to townread everyone else to varying degrees (or in DF case, I don't think he can be Skynx partner) and my tone read of Foreman at the beginning of the game doesn't hold up to the amount of nothing he's doing right now.
The only thing that is maybe scummy is that he had only weak interactions with Skynx at some points, but there is a lot of Skynx talk in his filter: he voted him, and he had several posts that either talked about him, or talked about people read of Skynx. Can't remember who posted that first but I read something about it when catching up and it's true.
Might be a partner tell but it's quite weak. It's not that bad. Also, notice how Skynx decides he is going to case Foreman now that he's been completely AFK? It's almost as if he wants to be part of the wagon to bus if Foreman is scum. Why Calix now? You know what fuck this. I spent 4 hours writing and reading i don't need to see this toxic shit when i wake up. Go ahead and lynch me i don't give a fuck get me out of this game pls its not fun for me. Also go ahead and assign my emo behavior with my scum meta yeye idc really i just want out. GG im town.
There is absolutely nothing toxic in the post you quoted. That's as fake as your "Lynch me, idgaf" in Dota 2 where you had no pressure on you.
You're nothing more than a shameful, whiny bitch with no self-respect.
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Unlike Calix, I actually thought that Rels' posts last night and this morning were decent.
DF's kind of sitting back this game. His opinions usually follow thread sentiment re: mahr, Foreman and Skynx scum-read. Not sure if it's how he plays, but it is something I dislike.
I think the two mafia are between Skynx
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Skynx / Foreman / DF
I think the one who's not mafia in there just misread his rolecard.
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EPT
