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On November 03 2016 04:17 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote:
@Foreman
Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU?
Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous. Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear. Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how? Considering you've yet to acquit yourself for that shady ExO push, I'm not concerned about your NU push when he isn't even here to respond to it.
Why not? Following multiple leads is not bad for town.
And even if we flip Calix in the end, no matter what color it is, having his talking points discussed would be beneficial to town. So I can't understand that refusal to comment on it. Especially as I would be very interested in your opinion.
Don't worry, we won't forget about Calix. And if you feel it got forgotten, ust bring it up later again, if someone wants to balem you for it, just forward it to me.
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On November 03 2016 04:26 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:22 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:17 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote:
@Foreman
Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU?
Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous. Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear. Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how? Considering you've yet to acquit yourself for that shady ExO push, I'm not concerned about your NU push when he isn't even here to respond to it. Why not? Following multiple leads is not bad for town. And even if we flip Calix in the end, no matter what color it is, having his talking points discussed would be beneficial to town. So I can't understand that refusal to comment on it. Especially as I would be very interested in your opinion. Don't worry, we won't forget about Calix. And if you feel it got forgotten, ust bring it up later again, if someone wants to balem you for it, just forward it to me. Because scum has every reason to make bad pushes on town. Unless I'm convinced that I'm wrong on Calix, I'm not getting invested in his pushes.
Well... So you refuse to answer me, because I share points with Calix on this issue? So I'm now scum by association for you?
Doing that after posting large paragraphs about "what kind of behaviour is protown"?
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gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you  Sorry.
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On November 03 2016 04:35 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you.
I am aware that he is only going after you.
But as I share your concern regarding NU... And would like the same answer to be answered... He refuses to answer me, because he considers you to be scum.
I don't agree on the policy of "I don't talk to who I consider scum". I consider this antitown, but I understand interpretations on this may differ.
But I really dislike the policy of "I don't talk to you, because a player I consider to be scum shared your concerns". This is for sure antitown.
So either he considers me scum too, or he is just antitown. Both conclusions are not really giving him any plus points in my book.
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Oh, and about me saying you are bad. Not what I meant. You are just sometimes very... overzealous and tunneled. This seems to weaken your own reads, but at the same time stirs up enough dust for others to make valuable reads, so I don't even consider it a bad thing.
I usually try to stay more distanced and openminded though.  And use your stirred up chaos :D
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On November 03 2016 04:40 Calix wrote:
Man, having everyone be a bunch of slow-pokes with typing is making me bored. I'm just going to vote now.
##vote NeverUnlucky
Didn't you want to wait until NU comes back and answers?
While I support your points about him, I still want to see his answer before I can support this push. And for the time being, I'm more looking at Foreman than at NU anyway.
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On November 03 2016 05:03 Calix wrote:
Actually that post where he's like "pls don't mind-meld with me" was pretty weird because we didn't actually have the same thought process on the posts. (I didn't get that impression anyway)
But that's the only post that I found weird from mahrgell so I'm fine with him for now.
That post was more directed at the fact, that whenever I posted, and refreshed, to see who else posted in the time while I wrote my post... There was always a similar post from you.
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@NU I'm fine with that explanation. I agree with Calix that the way you worded it, you put those words in his mouth and agreed with them. Then again, I guess we can file this under misunderstanding for now. And I generally appreciate your stated goal to make things more civil. So continue doing so.
How is your opinion on what happened in your afk time?
How you judge Foreman, Exo, Calix, Skynx? darthfoley had only one post, not sure you would want to read anything.
And well... if you have questions for me... fire away.
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On November 03 2016 06:17 Foreman wrote:
I'd like to see some reads with original content from mahrgell.
How many you need? You obviously ignored all my posts about yourself.
But let's summarize and update:
Looking at your entire post history, I try to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion you have. If you have no information about the game, you should have seen the same as me. And yet somehow you managed to take another turn at pretty much every point in the game. So far all your actions have been about the opposite of what I would expect from someone who saw the same as I did, with the same information I have. (none).
1) you see the Calix vs Exo_ interaction and for weird reasons tunnel down on Calix. Was she(it seems like Calix is a she?) pushing Exo? I don't think so. If she was, I agree it was pointless, but well... Day1. You were sure she was pushing Exo. Okay... Happy tunneling.
2) so you chase after people for having the antitown-proscum conversation, just to push that conversation further. If it was in your interest to remove this discussion from the thread to steer the game in a more town friendly direction, you should probably not try to last word in that conversation.
3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic.
4) I ask you about NU too. You dismiss it as parroting. Besides the fact that I consider it not parroting, but admit, that my critique on NU was very similar to Calix (earlier, not her latest) posts, let's for a moment assume it was parroting. At this point you claimed to scumlean Calix, but didn't say anything about me. If I were a townie, and see someone else parrot a person I consider scum... I for sure as hell would do my best to get this person to stop sheeping a scummie. Either you turn on me right away, or you try to get me away from her. Instead you just dismissed me. If I was sheeping Calix and you considered her scum, you willingly gave her an additional vote.
5) Your general contribution to this thread has never been in the interest of improving the atmosphere. In none of the mentioned points have you ever tried for a constructive conversation. And your latest responses to NU weren't better either. Not sure if it was in this thread or in the other one, but when you asked about the TL meta someone (NU?) answered: "Be wrong and a dick about it" This is exactly what I see you doing here.
I guess you earned it
##Vote Foreman
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as I forgot bolding
##Vote Foreman
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*grmpf* Whenever I write a post, it seems like for every 3 lines I write, a new post pops up in the thread.
But well... What was posted doesn't really change my above post. Even though I started writing it after reading #254 and wasn't aware of Foreman fully going after me now. Should learn to type faster.
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Well... from my perspective so far my topscum are:
Foreman (as explained, and I will stay on him and hope to get this wagon rolling)
NU
Why NU? I can already see people digging out the post where I waffled away from him. Goodwill is probably not a good town trait. But let me explain my thought:
I initially agreed with Calix that he implied an opinion on Calix she didn't post before. This has been discussed enough. Nontheless I accepted his explanation about it, keeping the minor point against him noted. Him trying to create a positive atmosphere is something I value highly. Now Calix seemed to go completely overboard in tunnel mode, and I honestly cried on the inside about her points. But it were NU's answers who were supposed to destroy Calix points, which brought me back onto him.
First he mentioned how he loves to powerwolf, winning 1v7 etc... Well... So basically his explanation for his initial misstep was devalued by that. Assuming he tries to balance his towngame against his mafiagame, not yet conclusive. But the doubt was increasing.
Next was his vote on Calix. Seriously, he had absolutely no case here. Now you may tell me again, NU loves frustration voting. Okay. But I consider it a bad trait. NU, stop it or you will probably never get towncred with me. This isn't really advancing the game. If you consider Calix to spout nonsense, either make a proper case or ignore her and talk about what you have noticed with others.
And last was this post:
On November 03 2016 07:04 NeverUnlucky wrote:
I agree with TT on all points. Especially line 3.
His VT claim was very odd, too, even more when you see him explaining it in 4 lines. It could have been him setting up a reason to be alive late in the game as scum, or he is a blue. In any case, I highly doubt that he is VT as VTs don't claim VT.
Really? A townie speculating about another player being blue or red? I mean, is this EVER smart? Mafia knows what color the guy is, and if he isn't red, you probably helped them in case they didn't notice.
So by now, I can see myself supporting a NU wagon too.
As said earlier, I still want Foreman gone first... But if this wagon does not play out and deadline was close, I would jump on a NU wagon too.
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On November 03 2016 07:23 NeverUnlucky wrote:
If I'm being completely honest I think that Calix is town.
But then I would have to explain myself, so I'll just keep pretending I scum-read her.
Then ignore her for the moment and talk about the rest of the game.
Foreman is accusing me, I'm accusing Foreman. Others have chimed in. Maybe they have said suspicious things too? Does anyone look like hes sheeping? Let's not pretend there is nothing to talk about outside of Calix vs NU.
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On November 03 2016 07:31 Calix wrote:
I've found the problem with mahrgell's 'cases' (for lack of a better term)
He's extremely unfocused when he's making his points. It's hard to infer what his actual case is. He narrates their filters instead of making targeted points about why his target is scummy.
He also likes to waffle on and doubt himself.
I told you earlier, that I prefer to play a more distanced style. Yes, I will usually explain possible outs too. From what I read in Cruise and Dota this seems to be unusual here, as everyone loves tunneling down and ignore everything that goes against their current opinion. No, I don't know the scumteam day 1. But I think I also made sufficiently clear that at this point, I have 2 clear wagons I would like to push, and in which priority.
And if you see me changing my opinion, just ask me for my reasoning. Right now nothing Foreman has posted since I posted my case against him has swayed me the slightest. NU hasn't answered me yet and is only my secondary choice right now anyway. So if I change vote, one of 3 things must happen:
a) they make a very convincing argument, but not seeing that now
b) someone makes himself even more scummy, but this won't remove my doubts about them
c) we are close to deadline and my priority choices are not happening and I have a preference in a wagon race.
About making more targeted points/narrated filters: What you wish here? More quotes? If this helps you, I can do that. If you have any advice on improving my readability, I'm all ear and will try to implement it. I can't claim years of forum Mafia. IRL things are different. :D
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On November 03 2016 07:33 Calix wrote:
In fact, looking at mahrgells' case again, I'm having a hard time thinking that he actually scum-reads NU. Nothing he says is actually that scummy when casing him. He just sounds so unsure of himself that it demotivates me just to look at it.
How about the last point, the quote about Exo? Yes, everything before were just small notes in my head, adding up. But this post (and repeating it again on the next page, is he trying to force a blueclaim?) is just really disturbing me. The fact that his tldr of my post also ignored that point doesn't help him.
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On November 03 2016 07:34 Tictock wrote:
Oh my bad mahrgell, I've been totally misspelling your name. I shall henceforth be reffering to you as gell to fix that.
What are your thoughts on Exo?
- overdefended against air from Calix
- retaliation vote, I mentioned I dislike those
- kinda stubbornly tunneled Calix
- neither of those are good things, but can also be very emotional TvT. Judging this would be easier if I knew some meta. So postponing this read for now, especially as I have higher priority lynch targets.
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On November 03 2016 07:43 Calix wrote:
I don't want more quotes. I think that you lack focus when casing your scum-reads so you should focus more on the quality of the few points you make > quantity, if that makes sense.
Thanks, noted. I will try to make it shorter. Remind me if I do it again, I won't be mad at you for it.^^
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On November 03 2016 07:50 NeverUnlucky wrote:
mahr, tell me why you town-read Calix.
Because her actions so far are believable for a no-knowledge townie. She is massively stirring up dust, chasing shadows, engaging people, actively leading with her own points. I consider those positive traits.
So far this day has been surprisingly productive for a Day1, and if she was doing this as scum by accident, she would have been told to stfu by now.
And even if this is all some masterful play... As active as she is, she would dig her own grave soon enough.
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@NU
I would still prefer you to talk about nonCalix points.  Considering the number of posts you now dedicated to Calix after refusing my request for the first time, how about now?
@Calix
actually the same... I think everything between NU and you is said.
Let's for a moment assume your NU wagon is dead and you have to pick between Foreman and me. Who would you vote?
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On November 03 2016 09:11 Calix wrote:
(I believe his Foreman argument is his most substantial original contribution to date)
I would like to mention that my final point on NU was very different from yours.
1) You went after him for his "buddying" - here I agreed
2) He gave an explanation - you refused it, I accepted it
3) You went into a mudfight with him, calling all his answers wrong - I took his answers for what he said, which made me rethink about my impression at 2)
4) he made this weird blue speculation - you ignored it entirely - I was tipped off by it and decided to make him my secondary scumread
So yes, we went for the same player, but besides 1) for very different reasons.
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EPT
