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On September 10 2016 06:44 fuba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 06:33 Vivax wrote:On September 10 2016 06:26 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 06:08 Vivax wrote:On September 10 2016 04:40 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Why do you now think Vivax may be town? It looks self-serving that you state that you now town-read Vivax and scum-read Fuba in the same post. Especially since you are following my vote and these two reads are ones I share.
I don't see anything wrong about this? Isn't she allowed to have a few reads that are the same as yours? Or to change her mind? Doesn't really seem like a reason to be suspicious of anything to me. I'm glad somebody else sees that fuba is playing very timidly to say the least. On top of it he attacked you with superbia for calling TW lynch bait, but not HF. Seems especially strange cause you were more vocal about the opinion on TW. HF has the right to call TW lynchbait based off of meta. NU has to call him lynchbait based on his knowledge from this game. Which means he thinks or knows that TW is town. If that is not the case, then he should just think he is scum. Calling him lynchbait is at the least inconsistent with his scumread of TW. At worst it is a slip. And his intentional misinterpretation of the post he quoted is making me think slip. How is this not obvious? FYI Tumble is not lynch bait. When he started playing around here he was perfectly capable of concise , informative posts with lists and reasoning and stuff, and he was jailkeeper a while back and got NKd N1. Not lynched. Not sure why he's started to go into wobbly land with his posting, but when he posts differently than in those games it's never a bad call to lynch him. And what does this have to do with you bitching about NU for using that term but not finding it suspicious in the slightest in HF? Is there any particular wording I missed that NU used that makes it more worth noticing? I could at least see HF having a different view of TW than you. I read the first few pages of the last game and thought TW was scum. HF was there, and said he had felt the same. In any case, it doesn't matter, because he at least has a right to an opinion of whether TW is lynchbait or not. He's seen him play as town before. NU has not. He has no reference point from which to call TW lynchbait. Except for this game. You are lynchbait if, as town, you behave in a scummy manner. UN only has this game from which to draw a conclusion. As I say this, I realize that I'm assuming it's his first game here rather than one of his first games here. However, assuming he's never played with TW before, my point stands strong.
No response vivax?
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On September 10 2016 07:03 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 06:58 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 06:44 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 06:33 Vivax wrote:On September 10 2016 06:26 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 06:08 Vivax wrote:On September 10 2016 04:40 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Why do you now think Vivax may be town? It looks self-serving that you state that you now town-read Vivax and scum-read Fuba in the same post. Especially since you are following my vote and these two reads are ones I share.
I don't see anything wrong about this? Isn't she allowed to have a few reads that are the same as yours? Or to change her mind? Doesn't really seem like a reason to be suspicious of anything to me. I'm glad somebody else sees that fuba is playing very timidly to say the least. On top of it he attacked you with superbia for calling TW lynch bait, but not HF. Seems especially strange cause you were more vocal about the opinion on TW. HF has the right to call TW lynchbait based off of meta. NU has to call him lynchbait based on his knowledge from this game. Which means he thinks or knows that TW is town. If that is not the case, then he should just think he is scum. Calling him lynchbait is at the least inconsistent with his scumread of TW. At worst it is a slip. And his intentional misinterpretation of the post he quoted is making me think slip. How is this not obvious? FYI Tumble is not lynch bait. When he started playing around here he was perfectly capable of concise , informative posts with lists and reasoning and stuff, and he was jailkeeper a while back and got NKd N1. Not lynched. Not sure why he's started to go into wobbly land with his posting, but when he posts differently than in those games it's never a bad call to lynch him. And what does this have to do with you bitching about NU for using that term but not finding it suspicious in the slightest in HF? Is there any particular wording I missed that NU used that makes it more worth noticing? I could at least see HF having a different view of TW than you. I read the first few pages of the last game and thought TW was scum. HF was there, and said he had felt the same. In any case, it doesn't matter, because he at least has a right to an opinion of whether TW is lynchbait or not. He's seen him play as town before. NU has not. He has no reference point from which to call TW lynchbait. Except for this game. You are lynchbait if, as town, you behave in a scummy manner. UN only has this game from which to draw a conclusion. As I say this, I realize that I'm assuming it's his first game here rather than one of his first games here. However, assuming he's never played with TW before, my point stands strong. No response vivax? It's a response that seemed reasonable, but that's it. In the context of him actually scumreading TW, I don't see how you reach the conclusion that he's mafia for calling him lynch bait in whatever way. I assume you think he spewed him town there having TMI? Important question.
I'm gonna come up with an analogy that will explain my current thought process about this eventually.
To answer your question, I didn't originally think so, but since I was brought up, and I started to think about it more closely, yes. From my perspective, the only way UN could see TW as lynchbait is if he knows he's town.
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Though this also now depends on whether or not I believe UN's definition of lynchbait is what he says it is. If it's actually more like mine, and he's downplaying it, then he's scum. If it's actually the way he describes it, I'll have to rethink it when I'm not in my current bias-mode.
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On September 10 2016 07:08 NeverUnlucky wrote:
^ Yes, it is what he thinks I did. I think he did the same thing in another post (to which he hasn't replied).
Chill. That will be handled on a point-by-point basis when I'm home.
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On September 10 2016 07:17 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 07:12 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 07:08 NeverUnlucky wrote:
^ Yes, it is what he thinks I did. I think he did the same thing in another post (to which he hasn't replied). Chill. That will be handled on a point-by-point basis when I'm home. This looks like a town post, 5 points to anyone who can say why.
Because I wrote it. I will accept my points if and when I flip.
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Wait, you said looks like, not "is".
Nvm -_-
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On September 10 2016 03:23 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 02:53 fuba wrote:
I'd thought that "lynchbait" is when a player is prone to attracting votes as town, which would indicate a TW town read from NU, given that he doesn't have any knowledge of TW's meta. And I was well aware that this is contrary to his general thoughts on TW at that point in the game. That's why I wouldn't really revisit it unless TW flips town (if/when that happens). I.E. if TW flips town, this could have been a slip.
Actually, mentioning that he's lynchbait is counterproductive to getting TW lynched, so why even mention it? Gonna need to think about this more after work - need my computer in front of me XD Odd that you change your stance on this point after Vivax and I called you out for it.
What did I change my mind about? Nothing really changed about what I said earlier, aside from my second from last sentence bringing up a point I hadn't considered before.
Calling him bad =/= town-reading him.
I may have rushed my explanation, but I didn't think you were townreading him. That is why it's strange you would call him lynchbait in your first game with him. It implied believing TW was town despite your push against him.
What does my knowledge of TW's meta have to do with any of this?
Covered this.
"That's why I wouldn't really revisit it unless TW flips town (if/when that happens). I.E. if TW flips town, this could have been a slip."
So you know he is going to flip town with the addition of the 'when'. I do not see why else you found the need to add this word after 'if' which is a conditional, meaning you know he's town. Scumslip.
Flimsiest "scumslip" I've ever heard of. Like, it's so insignificant that it's ridiculously hard to come up with any response. People say "if and when" all the time. They say it when they mean "if". It's not indicative of anything whatsoever.
You're also trying to tie up TW's flip to me which is scummy as fuck. IE - X flipped town and was pushed by Y, therefore Y is scum. You are already setting up a mislynch on me knowing that TW will flip town.
I'm thinking about the game. That is what you are accusing me of. People decide that if something happens, it would likely indicate something else literally all the time. It's like a core aspect of the game. You're making it seem as though what I said requires that I know TW is town, which it does not. Whole point is null and void. (see how I could have just said null, but I said both together because it is a thing that people say?)
You're also saying this despite the fact that you strongly feel TW is scum. Do you see the problem here? You're saying both of us are scum, while at the same time saying that my supposition that a town TW could mean a scum UN is setting you up for a lynch. It's impossible in your scenario for both of us to be scum, but that is what you would have us believe. While I said that if TW flips town, you might be scum, you are calling me scum NOW for something that goes against your own belief in what's going on in the thread.
Man this feels good.
What makes you say that I wanted him lynched? Scum-read =/= desire to lynch
That is, in fact, the definition of a scum read for me. Not sure how you could not want to lynch scum reads. I suppose that from your PoV as someone who plays with more scumreads than there are scum, you don't want to lynch them all maybe? However, this is a silly nonsensical thing to point out. It's obvious what I meant.
Fuba is scum.
Uh, false.
Going through this actually made me more confident in you being scum. Especially that second (technically third) response from the end. You're looking at the game as someone who has to make himself see people as scum because he knows they're not. The whole "lynchbait" thing doesn't even need to come into play, even though I still think it holds weight.
Time to eat.
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On September 10 2016 07:28 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 07:08 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 07:03 Vivax wrote:On September 10 2016 06:58 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 06:44 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 06:33 Vivax wrote:On September 10 2016 06:26 fuba wrote:On September 10 2016 06:08 Vivax wrote:On September 10 2016 04:40 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Why do you now think Vivax may be town? It looks self-serving that you state that you now town-read Vivax and scum-read Fuba in the same post. Especially since you are following my vote and these two reads are ones I share.
I don't see anything wrong about this? Isn't she allowed to have a few reads that are the same as yours? Or to change her mind? Doesn't really seem like a reason to be suspicious of anything to me. I'm glad somebody else sees that fuba is playing very timidly to say the least. On top of it he attacked you with superbia for calling TW lynch bait, but not HF. Seems especially strange cause you were more vocal about the opinion on TW. HF has the right to call TW lynchbait based off of meta. NU has to call him lynchbait based on his knowledge from this game. Which means he thinks or knows that TW is town. If that is not the case, then he should just think he is scum. Calling him lynchbait is at the least inconsistent with his scumread of TW. At worst it is a slip. And his intentional misinterpretation of the post he quoted is making me think slip. How is this not obvious? FYI Tumble is not lynch bait. When he started playing around here he was perfectly capable of concise , informative posts with lists and reasoning and stuff, and he was jailkeeper a while back and got NKd N1. Not lynched. Not sure why he's started to go into wobbly land with his posting, but when he posts differently than in those games it's never a bad call to lynch him. And what does this have to do with you bitching about NU for using that term but not finding it suspicious in the slightest in HF? Is there any particular wording I missed that NU used that makes it more worth noticing? I could at least see HF having a different view of TW than you. I read the first few pages of the last game and thought TW was scum. HF was there, and said he had felt the same. In any case, it doesn't matter, because he at least has a right to an opinion of whether TW is lynchbait or not. He's seen him play as town before. NU has not. He has no reference point from which to call TW lynchbait. Except for this game. You are lynchbait if, as town, you behave in a scummy manner. UN only has this game from which to draw a conclusion. As I say this, I realize that I'm assuming it's his first game here rather than one of his first games here. However, assuming he's never played with TW before, my point stands strong. No response vivax? It's a response that seemed reasonable, but that's it. In the context of him actually scumreading TW, I don't see how you reach the conclusion that he's mafia for calling him lynch bait in whatever way. I assume you think he spewed him town there having TMI? Important question. I'm gonna come up with an analogy that will explain my current thought process about this eventually. To answer your question, I didn't originally think so, but since I was brought up, and I started to think about it more closely, yes. From my perspective, the only way UN could see TW as lynchbait is if he knows he's town. This is what I wanted to hear. Cause you pointed him spewing TW town at a time when you were scumreading TW, which makes it in my opinion a very unlikely thought to come to your mind when reading NUs post. Or explained differently. If you're holding the belief that TW is scum, you wouldn't hold the belief that somebody just scumslipped that he's town. Which is one more reason you're a good lynch !
I don't actually remember saying anything about TW all game. I've only mentioned him in relation to NU's comments about him. Are you thinking about ticktock? Because I am scumreading ticktock. He was really my only scumread until all of this happened.
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And before anyone mentions it, I am still voting for TT right now. If my post above didn't convince anyone, then I'm not going to have the impetus today and tomorrow to push it through. Scum NU doesn't eliminate scum TT as far as I can remember.
I work tomorrow from 8am-4pm, which is the deadline. I may be able to pop in about 3-4 hours before that for a few minutes, but will be otherwise unavailable.
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Just want to point out now that this post took me way too long to write, so I go on a bit of a journey with regards to my attitude during it XD Think I've generally cleaned it up enough to give my accurate final thoughts.
I really don't feel like responding to this. Wanted to take a step back from this game.
This bugs the shit out of me, because you bitched so much about me not responding even though I told you exactly when I would respond. Then I respond, and you "don't feel like responding to this". You wanted it a short while ago, when you used it to make me look scummy. Now you don't? Ugh.
Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 08:38 fuba wrote:
What did I change my mind about? Nothing really changed about what I said earlier, aside from my second from last sentence bringing up a point I hadn't considered before. Go read.
I have. This doesn't clarify anything, only makes it harder for me to respond to you.
Show nested quote +I may have rushed my explanation, but I didn't think you were townreading him. That is why it's strange you would call him lynchbait in your first game with him. It implied believing TW was town despite your push against him. See, you're contradicting yourself again. You state that you didn't think that I was town-reading him, yet believe that I thought he was town. Town-reading someone IS thinking someone is town.
I have not once contradicted myself. If I'm pointing out a contradiction I've found in what YOU said, it doesn't mean I'm the one making a contradiction. The contradiction is that you are both supposedly scumreading TW, while at the same time declaring him town as lynchbait. That is the contradiction.
Show nested quote +
Flimsiest "scumslip" I've ever heard of. Like, it's so insignificant that it's ridiculously hard to come up with any response. People say "if and when" all the time. They say it when they mean "if". It's not indicative of anything whatsoever.
Very cool, very interesting, very dank. However, the question was: why did you feel the need to add 'when' in there? What does this word tell us that 'if' doesn't? Nothing, but implying that you knew that TW was town.
Completely ignored me. I've already responded to this. It's a ridiculous reason to scumread someone, and is not in any way a scumslip. It's actually impossible for it to be.
Show nested quote +I'm thinking about the game. That is what you are accusing me of. People decide that if something happens, it would likely indicate something else literally all the time. It's like a core aspect of the game. You're making it seem as though what I said requires that I know TW is town, which it does not. Whole point is null and void. (see how I could have just said null, but I said both together because it is a thing that people say?) You are only thinking about me and TW. All of your posts are about either of us. You're not thinking about the game. AGAIN, you talk theoretically without making connections to the game which is a scumtell!
So you're not players in the game? I've made clear connections to the game. You're the one talking theoretically. As I mentioned before, you're the one making calls now based on some perceived future theoretical town-flip of TW. You. Are. The. One. Talking. Theoretically. (at least in this dialogue between us that no one seems to want to comment on  )
Show nested quote +You're also saying this despite the fact that you strongly feel TW is scum. Do you see the problem here? You're saying both of us are scum, while at the same time saying that my supposition that a town TW could mean a scum UN is setting you up for a lynch. It's impossible in your scenario for both of us to be scum, but that is what you would have us believe. While I said that if TW flips town, you might be scum, you are calling me scum NOW for something that goes against your own belief in what's going on in the thread. I don't strongly feel that TW is scum, that's not true. The only read I am confident in is my Vivax TR. If I strongly felt that TW was scum, I'd be voting him. Lmao, you talk about pre-flip associations Day 1. I scum-read you both individually, not as a team. No one should read players off of others, especially not D1. I called you scum a while back, sir. What is the "something that goes against my own belief in what's going on in the thread"?
You gave reasons for me to be at least slightly townie 10 hours ago. You decided I was scum 7 hours ago. Wouldn't really call that "calling me scum a while back". In any case, you clearly thought TW was scum. The level of that read is irrelevant. And YOU ARE THE ONE TALKING ABOUT PRE FLIP ASSOCIATIONS DAY ONE AND VOTING ON THAT ASSOCIATION. I mentioned a single thing: that in the future if TW flips town then I would reinvestigate what you had said. This is not at all alignment indicative. Half of the game has already done that. You, however, are deciding that I'm setting you up for a lynch by doing so and voting me for that. Nearly exclusively. The rest being "I didn't like his posts earlier and he said 'when'". I realize that's minimizing what your actual arguments are from your point of view, but that's really all they are to me.
And I'm just going to repeat that my read on you has nothing to do with anyone else's alignment. I don't really know how to make it any clearer, but I guess I'll try. My first point was that you, while supposedly scumreading TW, called him lynchbait, which in my mind indicates you on some level see him as town. The thought was that the only reason you would say that is as an accident (because "town NU" thinks TW is scummy), and it would be because you ultimately know him to be town. It doesn't have anything to do with me knowing his alignment. He could be whatever. It's that the only reason you would call him lynchbait when you think he's scum, without knowing from previous games that he might be perceived as lynchbait by some people (i.e. you have no personal meta read of him) is that you know he is town in this game, and accidentally reveal that fact. However, if we simply have different definitions of lynchbait, most of this can't be guaranteed true.
The second point was that while scumreading TW, you decide that I am scum, trying to push a mislynch on you when TW flips town. You think he's scum, but you think he's town, so you think I'm scum. Or you think he's scum, and you want to be able to say you think I'm scum, so you decide he's going to flip town. I kept running through the scenarios and it comes down to you claiming in thread that you think he's scum, but you're mentally making him town for the purpose of getting me lynched. Essentially, you're having trouble keeping your reads straight because you know the people you're accusing are town.
Show nested quote +That is, in fact, the definition of a scum read for me. Not sure how you could not want to lynch scum reads. I suppose that from your PoV as someone who plays with more scumreads than there are scum, you don't want to lynch them all maybe? However, this is a silly nonsensical thing to point out. It's obvious what I meant. I'm standing at 6 scum-reads, there are 3 scums. Of course I do not want to lynch all of my scum-reads even more so because I am not confident enough in most of them. Yes, it's a common thing for players not to systematically want to lynch their scum-reads. i.e. I wouldn't ever lynch Calix day 1 even if I scum-read her because she at least posts and tries to contribute, and I respect that.
I think this little debate isn't really going anywhere. We play in different ways, so while I don't have scumreads unless I want to lynch them, you have plenty of scumreads and therefore don't want to lynch them all. Just gonna have to agree to disagree, and it doesn't really help the discussion. Kinda sorry I brought it up.
Show nested quote +Going through this actually made me more confident in you being scum. Especially that second (technically third) response from the end. You're looking at the game as someone who has to make himself see people as scum because he knows they're not. The whole "lynchbait" thing doesn't even need to come into play, even though I still think it holds weight. If you look at my posts on people, it's clear that I do not know anyone's alignment. My reads have always been nuanced and always had reasoning (like it or not, I have reasoning to sr you).
Perhaps the second to last sentence is true. You're right that I've mostly focused on this one scenario to the exclusion of much else. It's kind of what I do - see something and latch onto it. I still don't think I'm wrong, but I'll look at your filter tomorrow. Thing is, I feel like you can often distill entire games down into individual moments. Defining moments. Like someone accidentally revealing his scumread is town, or subconsciously allowing privileged information to color their reads and explanations of their reads on other players.
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Woke up an hour late, so this will be a real quick pop in as I go to work. I might have a few minutes around 4.5 hours from now. Not sure when my break is.
Regarding NU: there are things I really want to clarify from his last post about me, but no one seems to agree with my case, so I'm setting it aside for now. No one agreeing tends to mean I'm on the wrong track, anyway. Thinking back, I do remember thinking he was town before I went all paranoid (I guess) about the lynchbait thing. I can't reaffirm that without going back and rereading his filter, which I don't have e time for atm, so I'm just going to entertain the idea that he's town for now.
I can read a single filter on the way to work. Likely a short one. Got any more info on your damdred scum read NU, or is it already in your filter.
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I know I want to hear his reason for that one post of mine being a town post.
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My current thoughts on TT are that no one could really defend him if he's not going to defend himself. It kind of eliminates that entire line of reasoning. On one hand, scum could more easily push a mislynch. On the other, scum couldn't defend him too much without associating themselves with him. I could see the scum waiting to drop onto his side until he started posting again, but being unable to because he never came back.
And he has been defended, in a way. Pushing another lynch defends the current lynch leader. I'm not at all saying that everyone iffy about a TT lynch is scum. I'm saying that if we're voting for someone else, then we're not voting for tt. Scum could push a counter lynch, or simply hop onto one, and not have to worry all that much about being associated with him because he's "just a lurker lynch".
I have to get back to work soon. Might be able to sneak a peak at the game before lynch time. Staying on TT because despite HF's overconfidence in the case, I remember finding it compelling at the time and nothing TT has done has convinced me otherwise. Also, the fact that he disappeared right after the votes popped up, and the fact that HF appeared to be (and still is) dead set on lynching him may have sapped his will to fight back. I know it's projecting, but I would be disheartened if HF declared me so strongly scum so early. Anyone know if this would apply to TT too?
Like, is he more likely to disappear when he's town being wrongly accused, or scum being correctly accused? Or maybe is neither more likely?
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On September 11 2016 02:35 Damdred wrote:
You forgot a option tbh, the third option is tt didn't want to play as scum and at least one team mate is light budding with the intent to jump on when the train looks like it,had no breaks,for cred.
COukd it be town tt just going down with the ship, yes it could. But there is no logical reasoning town should defend tt is there? For such a easy target the amount of push back,that has been received from the tt while no one town reads him is staggering tbh.
But really there is so much time left and so few people voting it coups,mean any number of things.
Liking damdred for this post. Basically in line with my thoughts.
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That is an unfortunate flip.
Gonna go subscribe to the replacement thread now :S
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Morning.
Got a few minutes before work. To answer NU's questions (paraphrasing, on my phone):
What are my thoughts on the calix discussion? I think she probably could have defended tt as either alignment. I disagree that starting the defense because of VCA is accurate, though. I don't see how 3v2v2v1v1v6-no-votes (generalizing, can't look at the vote list right now) indicates a lack of defense. There were other wagons trying throughout the day to get onto someone other than tt. Once the votes were skewed to what they became at EoD, I might have gotten concerned, but she was on it much earlier than that. Might lean slight scum for that, but I also recall thinking that many of her posts just felt like frustrated town. Might be able to find some and quote them later. At the moment I'm considering her town.
Why did I vote for tt? The narrative HF originally laid out made sense to me, and then tt disappearing after it just reinforced it. At the end of the day, I could still see scum behaving as he had, so my vote didn't change. I didn't see any reason that HF exaggerating his sureness was indicative of the case being bad. Though iirc he later mentions that he no longer had a scum read (or maybe it was just a weaker scum read? Would have to look it up) on tt and was lynching for information at that point. That bugs me. Mostly because I'm not sure how much reasonably confident information we got from the lynch. Maybe that'll come to me when I reread EoD.
Who are my scum reads? I'll have to get back to you on that one. My two yesterday were you and tt, which is more that I usually have d1 XD. One was proven wrong, the other I'm currently believing is town. Have to dive some filters and probably reread EoD to develop some more.
I also have some thoughts on TW that are almost completely unrelated to this game, and actually take place in an obs QT for another game that he wasn't in as far as I remember, but there are similarities to this game and I was wondering what other people's thoughts were on it. In one of my previous town games I made a case on a suspected scum being town. In the obs QT, it was declared that I was town for doing so by most people present, even if they were unsure of me before. Does anyone feel that this could apply to TW in this game? I could try to find the game, but would have to wait until a few hours after start of day.
On one hand, I understand that scum have an easy time town reading people (if they're town) because they know they're town. They know it's from a town perspective because everything has to be. On the other, why defend a high content poster once the thread starts swinging slightly against them if your goal is to get them killed? The ability to defend town is greater, but the reason for doing it seems far less so. I know that these scenarios assume tw scum and calix town, but I'm leaving out the possibility that they're both scum because that would be a hard defense of a scum buddy. Which I guess could happen, but it doesn't feel likely? The scenario feels like either both town or one scum.
I needed to ask because it'll be on my mind until it's resolved (think NU's lynchbait comment).
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Unfortunately, I need to focus on schoolwork tonight. After class tomorrow, I don't work for 4 days, so my availability should open up.
I'm glad I stopped tunneling you NU, I really liked your last few posts. The stuff about a TW lynch feeling a lot like the TT lynch was exactly what I was thinking at the moment. At least as it pertains to HF. Not saying it makes him scummy, it just has the exact same feeling to it. And if you want my response to the calix NK, it's generally that very few conclusions can be drawn. That's not to say I have no ideas about why it was done, but there's no way to narrow it down from 50 possibilities to even a reasonable fraction of them, so I'm not gonna throw my speculation out there XD
Was gonna call vivax out for trying to get HF to fight his battles for him, but I reread his filter really quick and it actually seems like his read on me has been fluctuating pretty reasonably all game. Incorrect whenever he thinks I'm scum, but I can see the thought behind it, and I think I can remember the approximate timing of most of the posts and I can understand them. He doesn't really push too hard, but at least I think I can see a townie thought process.
Also, without having reread any cases on anyone, so many of TW's posts feel like posts that I make or have made as town that I have trouble really seeing him as scum. He seems better able to let himself post freely, regardless of the consequences, than I do, but I feel some kind of "bad townie" (for lack of a better term) kinship.
Oh, and I really, really wouldn't rely too much on the ghosts or speculation about it. Like, anyone who knows scott shadowed HF or whatever could have set up that little code. Scum can control the LW and scum can control the votes. I don't want to lose because we trust in something we know that scum will try to use against us.
Yay townreads! Scum will come once I have the time to reread more filters XD (should be around the second half of D2 :S)
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Oh, and I just remembered, what was the townieness of my earlier post, damdred?
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On September 13 2016 00:09 Vivax wrote:Picking up where I left yesterday, I'm snipping out one part here (when he talks about the Calix discussion, doesn't yield anything interesting). My comments are in [] brackets. Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 23:46 fuba wrote:
Morning.
Got a few minutes before work. To answer NU's questions (paraphrasing, on my phone):
Why did I vote for tt? The narrative HF originally laid out made sense to me, and then tt disappearing after it just reinforced it. At the end of the day, I could still see scum behaving as he had, so my vote didn't change. I didn't see any reason that HF exaggerating his sureness was indicative of the case being bad. Though iirc he later mentions that he no longer had a scum read (or maybe it was just a weaker scum read? Would have to look it up) on tt and was lynching for information at that point. That bugs me. Mostly because I'm not sure how much reasonably confident information we got from the lynch. Maybe that'll come to me when I reread EoD.
Who are my scum reads? I'll have to get back to you on that one. My two yesterday were you and tt, which is more that I usually have d1 XD. One was proven wrong, the other I'm currently believing is town. Have to dive some filters and probably reread EoD to develop some more.
I also have some thoughts on TW that are almost completely unrelated to this game, and actually take place in an obs QT for another game that he wasn't in as far as I remember, but there are similarities to this game and I was wondering what other people's thoughts were on it. In one of my previous town games I made a case on a suspected scum being town. In the obs QT, it was declared that I was town for doing so by most people present, even if they were unsure of me before. Does anyone feel that this could apply to TW in this game? I could try to find the game, but would have to wait until a few hours after start of day.
[The thoughts on TW are really uninformative. The argument is that anyone defending town with a case could be town, I don't even get if he's talking about TW defending Calix or TT, and fuba doesn't check it out, doesn't relate to TW's posts and mention examples of this being the case somewhere, he just puts the question out there where it will continue to not bear any fruits. This looks like a prime example of an uncontributive post being buffed with lots of words. Also it's weird he thinks finding the game will change anything about people's reads about TW]
On one hand, I understand that scum have an easy time town reading people (if they're town) because they know they're town. They know it's from a town perspective because everything has to be. On the other, why defend a high content poster once the thread starts swinging slightly against them if your goal is to get them killed? The ability to defend town is greater, but the reason for doing it seems far less so. I know that these scenarios assume tw scum and calix town, but I'm leaving out the possibility that they're both scum because that would be a hard defense of a scum buddy. Which I guess could happen, but it doesn't feel likely? The scenario feels like either both town or one scum.
[Another part that looks big but doesn't say anything. You're never going to get information speculating if somebody defending town was scum. Scum can do a bit of both in a game of a lot of players. He concludes...nothing, as expected of trying to reach a conclusion from wifom. His only goal I could see here is to slap a wall of words instead of simply saying "TW + Calix feel like T+T or T+S"]
I needed to ask because it'll be on my mind until it's resolved (think NU's lynchbait comment). Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 11:51 fuba wrote:
Unfortunately, I need to focus on schoolwork tonight. After class tomorrow, I don't work for 4 days, so my availability should open up.
I'm glad I stopped tunneling you NU, I really liked your last few posts. The stuff about a TW lynch feeling a lot like the TT lynch was exactly what I was thinking at the moment. At least as it pertains to HF. Not saying it makes him scummy, it just has the exact same feeling to it. And if you want my response to the calix NK, it's generally that very few conclusions can be drawn. That's not to say I have no ideas about why it was done, but there's no way to narrow it down from 50 possibilities to even a reasonable fraction of them, so I'm not gonna throw my speculation out there XD
Was gonna call vivax out for trying to get HF to fight his battles for him, but I reread his filter really quick and it actually seems like his read on me has been fluctuating pretty reasonably all game. Incorrect whenever he thinks I'm scum, but I can see the thought behind it, and I think I can remember the approximate timing of most of the posts and I can understand them. He doesn't really push too hard, but at least I think I can see a townie thought process.
Also, without having reread any cases on anyone, so many of TW's posts feel like posts that I make or have made as town that I have trouble really seeing him as scum. He seems better able to let himself post freely, regardless of the consequences, than I do, but I feel some kind of "bad townie" (for lack of a better term) kinship.
Oh, and I really, really wouldn't rely too much on the ghosts or speculation about it. Like, anyone who knows scott shadowed HF or whatever could have set up that little code. Scum can control the LW and scum can control the votes. I don't want to lose because we trust in something we know that scum will try to use against us.
Yay townreads! Scum will come once I have the time to reread more filters XD (should be around the second half of D2 :S) This post is mostly just here to see if he actually did any of the things he promised in the previous post which doesn't seem like he did. His NU scumread turned to town for his latest posts. Ok. What about the famous game he talked about? What about EoD and HF changing reads on TT? No delivery. Fuba mostly just talks a lot to say very little. Which doesn't surprise me cause he just pops in occasionally with probably great pressure to look super contributive, but since he's actually doing very little, he fluffs up the posts like a pro. I think we should lynch him before we lynch TW cause TW at least shows some degree of consistent presence whereas fuba is under the radar 90 % and when he shows up he throws up a post that only really talks about irrelevant stuff in an overly worded way. Scott's message is old news, and nobody is really interested in figuring out NUs alignment at this point. But I guess he felt he had to put it in there for consistency otherwise somebody could call him out for forgetting about his scumread on him. I'll be voting accordingly.
So am I posting for consistency or being inconsistent? I can't be both. You say I'm posting under intense pressure to look contributive, but there has been almost none on me the entire game (a fact that I've already mentioned I find strange).
One fact you have right: I haven't acted on things I've said I'd do. Some of those are because they feel irrelevant once I finish catching up with the thread. The others are because I legitimately have no time to do it. I keep making promises, not realizing that I can hold to them. That should change in the next few days, as I don't have to work before/after class.
It's funny that in the same post, you point out how no one wants to know my thoughts on something that happened in the thread in the past while at the same time pointing out how I'm not telling everyone all my thoughts from things in the past.
You know that if no one reacts to something I've posted, I'm incredibly likely to assume no one agrees/cares and assume that's because it's useless. So why would I go find the case I mentioned? Also gonna point out how I'm scummy for suggesting that the case might give more insight into what im saying, as well as not providing the case after no one has reacted to my post in any way for hours.
I'm scum for literally anything I post. How would town fuba act here vivax? Keeping in mind that I'm reasonably sure that you've scum read me in 100% of our games together.
Since the entire case boils down to "he isn't here a lot", I'm just gonna start being more active in the game now that I (kinda) have time to, and hopefully you'll take off your scum-tinted shades.
As for the hf EoD stuff, someone (tw?) raised a good point that scum hf gains nothing from admitting he wasn't sure about tt being scum anymore but voting for him anyway. Makes it NAI.
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It is way too easy to snooze all of my alarms. I should really get one of those alarms that start running around the room when it goes off so I can't ignore it.
In any case, I'm awake now. Only have 15 pages to read for my class today, which starts in ~9 hours. Should give me a good amount of time to at least read most of the filters in the game and give some input. Will probably start with people who have yet to vote, which coincidentally seems to include most of the people others are scumreading. My class starts at about an hour before EoD, so I can't be here for that (probably. Might be able to be sneaky while in class. I'd rather not get the professor angry at me on the second day of class, though XD)
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EPT
