Anyways, process of elimination & Lunatic interactions have left me with Skynx/scott as the most probable scumteam now. Anything you have to say about that? Would be especially interesting to hear your current Skynx/Jealous/Tictock reads.
And I still don't see the case for stutters besides his subpar activity/play. I guess I might have to elaborate on my other reason a bit later if need be.
Something feels wrong though. Like can it really be something as easy as Skynx/scott?
I think I'll be reading Rels filter for the time being. Be back a bit later.
On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
Depends on the person. Depends on the situation.
I'm actually gunna go ahead and say DYH is 100% scum here though. Mostly because he stopped doing his read posts as soon as we questioned it and changed gears.
There is town giving thoughts, and there is scum trying to look like they are productive.
This is town for the same reason that I thought Luna was misinformed town earlier broskis.
Anyways, process of elimination & Lunatic interactions have left me with Skynx/scott as the most probable scumteam now. Anything you have to say about that? Would be especially interesting to hear your current Skynx/Jealous/Tictock reads.
And I still don't see the case for stutters besides his subpar activity/play. I guess I might have to elaborate on my other reason a bit later if need be.
Something feels wrong though. Like can it really be something as easy as Skynx/scott?
I think I'll be reading Rels filter for the time being. Be back a bit later.
I think Skynx guy is quite town, same with TT and Jeal.
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
Oh yeah.... Gotta change that I guess
So what was your reason sr'ing DYH again? It should be quite something to deviate you from your course of eliminating your top sr target mr Skynx.
On September 29 2016 06:24 Calix wrote: Actually I have one question. DYH, who are you going to vote for and why? Don't spend ages on answering this, lol.
##Vote: Scott
I've been thinking about Superbia's kill. There are 4 reasons I can think of for it.
1. Medic dodge. 2. Town is off track, didn't want a fresh vet voice changing things 3. Superbia is on right track 4. WIFOM salad
#1 is obviously the case. With their RB gone they aren't going to target Calix (most townread person N1). #2 is iffy. Obviously taking out a fresh voice in Superbia accomplishes this, but he isn't heavily townread and he has stated repeatedly that he was going to be lazy this game. #3 is the most likely case. After losing your RB the first night you can't risk someone with correct suspicions putting you down 0-2. Most common reason to kill someone, also makes the most sense from the mafia perspective this game. #4 is very unlikely. There are too many people who have established themselves decently as town, too many people more productive than Superbia.
Anyways, process of elimination & Lunatic interactions have left me with Skynx/scott as the most probable scumteam now. Anything you have to say about that? Would be especially interesting to hear your current Skynx/Jealous/Tictock reads.
And I still don't see the case for stutters besides his subpar activity/play. I guess I might have to elaborate on my other reason a bit later if need be.
Something feels wrong though. Like can it really be something as easy as Skynx/scott?
I think I'll be reading Rels filter for the time being. Be back a bit later.
I think Skynx guy is quite town, same with TT and Jeal.
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
Oh yeah.... Gotta change that I guess
So what was your reason sr'ing DYH again? It should be quite something to deviate you from your course of eliminating your top sr target mr Skynx.
It truly did not matter what I voted at that point in time. I just switched to DYH after Jealous mentioned that I wouldn't be getting any glory from the lynch since I wasn't even voting for him. Sadly it was in vain :/
Meh. I think there's just seriously something I'm missing here.
On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote: So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read.
On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
- I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return:
On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote: The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
On September 26 2016 03:43 Superbia wrote: I need a champion.
You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
So uh.
Read on DH is pre-flip association or what?
I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation.
Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here.
1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK
For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post:
On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote: I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. [B]## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back.
It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am.
Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day.
He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it.
If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument.
[B]On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane.
tl;dr:
- DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother
As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD.
That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment.
Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle.
I don't think this makes Jealous scum. If you're scum why just not vote DYH without giving any reason and live happily ever after
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
Oh yeah.... Gotta change that I guess
So what was your reason sr'ing DYH again? It should be quite something to deviate you from your course of eliminating your top sr target mr Skynx.
It truly did not matter what I voted at that point in time. I just switched to DYH after Jealous mentioned that I wouldn't be getting any glory from the lynch since I wasn't even voting for him. Sadly it was in vain :/
Meh. I think there's just seriously something I'm missing here.
On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote: So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read.
On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
- I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return:
On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote: The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
On September 26 2016 03:43 Superbia wrote: I need a champion.
You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
So uh.
Read on DH is pre-flip association or what?
I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation.
Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here.
1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK
For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post:
On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote: I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. ## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back.
It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am.
Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day.
He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it.
If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument.
This is also one of the worst EOD posts:
On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane.
tl;dr:
- DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother
As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD.
That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment.
Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle.
I don't think this makes Jealous scum. If you're scum why just not vote DYH without giving any reason and live happily ever after
On September 29 2016 06:24 Calix wrote: Actually I have one question. DYH, who are you going to vote for and why? Don't spend ages on answering this, lol.
##Vote: Scott
I've been thinking about Superbia's kill. There are 4 reasons I can think of for it.
1. Medic dodge. 2. Town is off track, didn't want a fresh vet voice changing things 3. Superbia is on right track 4. WIFOM salad
#1 is obviously the case. With their RB gone they aren't going to target Calix (most townread person N1). #2 is iffy. Obviously taking out a fresh voice in Superbia accomplishes this, but he isn't heavily townread and he has stated repeatedly that he was going to be lazy this game. #3 is the most likely case. After losing your RB the first night you can't risk someone with correct suspicions putting you down 0-2. Most common reason to kill someone, also makes the most sense from the mafia perspective this game. #4 is very unlikely. There are too many people who have established themselves decently as town, too many people more productive than Superbia.
##Vote DHY
???
There you go guys, 3 manners of voting on an already happening lynch. Suit yourselves.
On September 30 2016 09:59 DanelerH wrote: Thank you for the answers, Scott. Now I have a question for Xatalos:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Stutters A more controversial pick for green color, perhaps, but I agree with whoever said that it would be extremely rare for scum to immediately throw a strong townread on their teammate like Lunatic did. It would only link them together in everyone's minds (something scum would definitely not want) and make the other look bad/scum if the other flips. In addition, it wouldn't come naturally as a careless throwaway comment like how Lunatic said it. It just fits so much better as a casual, too strong townread on someone he would know to be town in advance. Also, I have an interesting theory related to Stutters, but that's best left for later.
I'm interested in this theory you have that's related to Stutters. Mind sharing it? I'm assuming it relates to the second good reason you have to Town-read Stutters. + Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2016 07:08 Xatalos wrote: Hm. stutters didn't vote?
There are still two good reasons to townread him, but his play is really...
Sorry, it's confidential for now... And not entirely certain. I'll say my thought there when the time is right.
However, I'll counter by asking... Where are you going with these questions to different players?
Sorry, it's confidential for now...
In all serious, though, I noticed a correlation between Superbia and Rels. They were both suspicious of Scott, which is why I started by questioning xem. Judging by Scott's answers, I feel like xe might be leaning Town. They were also both suspicious of you, so I questioned you next. Based on your answer, you're sounding less Town.
Anyways, process of elimination & Lunatic interactions have left me with Skynx/scott as the most probable scumteam now. Anything you have to say about that? Would be especially interesting to hear your current Skynx/Jealous/Tictock reads.
And I still don't see the case for stutters besides his subpar activity/play. I guess I might have to elaborate on my other reason a bit later if need be.
Something feels wrong though. Like can it really be something as easy as Skynx/scott?
I think I'll be reading Rels filter for the time being. Be back a bit later.
I think Skynx guy is quite town, same with TT and Jeal.
Scott I'll re-read soon, possibly 2mox.
Gut feels?
Nah reasons are actually there in my filter, along with progressing lists and all you know.
On September 29 2016 06:24 Calix wrote: Actually I have one question. DYH, who are you going to vote for and why? Don't spend ages on answering this, lol.
##Vote: Scott
I've been thinking about Superbia's kill. There are 4 reasons I can think of for it.
1. Medic dodge. 2. Town is off track, didn't want a fresh vet voice changing things 3. Superbia is on right track 4. WIFOM salad
#1 is obviously the case. With their RB gone they aren't going to target Calix (most townread person N1). #2 is iffy. Obviously taking out a fresh voice in Superbia accomplishes this, but he isn't heavily townread and he has stated repeatedly that he was going to be lazy this game. #3 is the most likely case. After losing your RB the first night you can't risk someone with correct suspicions putting you down 0-2. Most common reason to kill someone, also makes the most sense from the mafia perspective this game. #4 is very unlikely. There are too many people who have established themselves decently as town, too many people more productive than Superbia.
##Vote DHY
???
I had bolded scenarios 1 and 3, thinking at the time that DYH contradicted xemself, which sounded like another reason to vote for xem. DYH had mentioned later that the cases weren't exclusive, which I didn't think of at the time. Even after that, though, the evidence against xem was still strong enough that I didn't wish to change my vote.
On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote: So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read.
On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
- I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return:
On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote: The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
On September 26 2016 03:43 Superbia wrote: I need a champion.
You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
So uh.
Read on DH is pre-flip association or what?
I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation.
Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here.
1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK
For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post:
On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote: I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. [B]## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back.
It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am.
Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day.
He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it.
If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument.
This is also one of the worst EOD posts:
[B]On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane.
tl;dr:
- DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother
As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD.
That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment.
Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle.
Yeah this got my attention during EOD as well. Jealous was very quick to throw out the idea of DYH being town for bad reasons. Scums are most likely in Jealous / Stutters / scott
One point would be that scott was scumread by both night-killed people.
Hmm. Actually Rels' read progression is pretty weird, but he's town, so it's whatever. Basically it went scott/DYH/Jealous for N1 -> DYH/Xatalos for D2 -> Jealous / Stutters / scott for N2, and not much explanation if any for the changes.
On October 01 2016 01:08 Xatalos wrote: Finally back. Expected Calix over Rels, but maybe dodged or something.
On September 30 2016 09:59 DanelerH wrote: Thank you for the answers, Scott. Now I have a question for Xatalos:
On September 29 2016 02:38 Xatalos wrote: Stutters A more controversial pick for green color, perhaps, but I agree with whoever said that it would be extremely rare for scum to immediately throw a strong townread on their teammate like Lunatic did. It would only link them together in everyone's minds (something scum would definitely not want) and make the other look bad/scum if the other flips. In addition, it wouldn't come naturally as a careless throwaway comment like how Lunatic said it. It just fits so much better as a casual, too strong townread on someone he would know to be town in advance. Also, I have an interesting theory related to Stutters, but that's best left for later.
I'm interested in this theory you have that's related to Stutters. Mind sharing it? I'm assuming it relates to the second good reason you have to Town-read Stutters. + Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2016 07:08 Xatalos wrote: Hm. stutters didn't vote?
There are still two good reasons to townread him, but his play is really...
Sorry, it's confidential for now... And not entirely certain. I'll say my thought there when the time is right.
However, I'll counter by asking... Where are you going with these questions to different players?
Sorry, it's confidential for now...
In all serious, though, I noticed a correlation between Superbia and Rels. They were both suspicious of Scott, which is why I started by questioning xem. Judging by Scott's answers, I feel like xe might be leaning Town. They were also both suspicious of you, so I questioned you next. Based on your answer, you're sounding less Town.
On September 29 2016 06:48 Jealous wrote: I petition that if DYH is scum, and Stutters doesn't vote, that the game ends here and we get all the trophies.
I will get the trophies and you will be jealous
Your vote is on Skynx hahahahaha
Oh yeah.... Gotta change that I guess
So what was your reason sr'ing DYH again? It should be quite something to deviate you from your course of eliminating your top sr target mr Skynx.
It truly did not matter what I voted at that point in time. I just switched to DYH after Jealous mentioned that I wouldn't be getting any glory from the lynch since I wasn't even voting for him. Sadly it was in vain :/
Meh. I think there's just seriously something I'm missing here.
On September 29 2016 22:17 Calix wrote: So I decided to look back through the posts leading up to the ML and I think Jealous has the most questionable sequence with regards to his DYH read.
On September 28 2016 08:31 Jealous wrote: It seems like people have mostly vocally agreed on DYH with a few exceptions, but I don't see the votes on him. I'll construct my case on him then, just so that it's out there. I was going to revisit Stutters but I see DYH as priority right now. Working.
On September 24 2016 11:26 DoYouHas wrote: I think I like you as well Stutters. Good on ya.
- I'll try to get into something beyond these gut reads tomorrow, hopefully when a few more people have posted. As is I'm pretty happy with tonight. 3/5 for my town pile and 2 I need to think about and watch. Gnight.
Promises more substance tomorrow, let's see if he delivers.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
He's been gone for almost 24 hours and comes back with this. For reference, Stutters was making a case on SEQ and told people to go look at SEQ filter. DYH is basically saying "okay, I'll do what you suggest to check out your scumread and work with you, but only if you give me your thoughts on ptmc, about whom I haven't said a word yet." I don't know if this is very townie behavior. Why wouldn't he just give his thoughts on SEQ and then ask about ptmc?
Interesting post from Xata on this, prior to DoYouHas' return:
On September 25 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote: DoYouHas did make quite a bit of posts earlier btw.
6 posts, only 4 of which were during the game, and none of which had substance besides 3 gut reads. Is this really worth commenting on? Is this really "quite a bit?" Hmm.
On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote: The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.
Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.
Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.
It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?
On September 25 2016 10:53 DoYouHas wrote: So is it bad enough that you would want to lynch him or do you currently have a stronger scum read on someone else currently?
On September 25 2016 11:09 DoYouHas wrote: @Jealous, are you in and out? Why is it taking you this long to respond to me?
As Tictock pointed out, DYH seems to be pressuring me more than Lunatic despite (at least superficially) agreeing with me that Lunatic is playing anti-town. In fact, DYH hadn't said a word about Lunatic at all up until this point. Surely he saw the post? Why ignore Lunatic? Why jump on me?
On September 26 2016 03:43 Superbia wrote: I need a champion.
You have Giacomo! (so long as you are leading against DH, Luna, or Jealous)
So he throws Luna into the mix now that Luna has drawn attention but dilutes it by throwing two other names in there, neither of which he had mentioned until now. The only person he had really said anything of substance about until here is SEQ, besides his gutreads at the start of the game. (Also, he didn't really contribute anything in over 27 hours, despite promising to do so). This is his first time calling any of the three scum, and does it in a way that provides no substance whatsoever.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
Here he elaborates, imaginably because he is trying to get Superbia to sheep him. Doesn't like DH for scumreading Luna, despite also saying Luna is "possible scum," and then puts me in the same group again. Note, I was against Luna at the time as well. How would that team of 3 ever make sense? Both I and DH go for a bus halfway through D1 when there were only a handful of pages and posts, after telling Lunatic to post like an idiot? That's a stretch, and DYH makes no sense here otherwise.
On September 26 2016 03:50 Superbia wrote: I am so fucking confused as to why no one has called me mafia yet this game and now everyone is reacting like this.
???
Oh well.
Activity levels are low and there are better lynch targets than you, especially if your going to ramp up.
DH's tunnel onto Luna is very contrived with no follow through. Pair that with his questionable early posting and it feels like scum to me. Maybe he brings something to the table before deadline now, but it feels like he tunneled just long enough to get the spotlight on someone else then disappeared.
Luna made an anti-town play and has essentially shut down since coming under the displeasure of the thread, making him a very reasonable lynch and possible scum. I don't think making a meta read is in any way alignment indicative but I appear to be in the minority on that.
Jealous started with fluff, then stirred the pot, and finished by being super non-commital. Townies should be trusting there own judgement over that of people's whose alignments are uncertain. Also potentially scum.
So uh.
Read on DH is pre-flip association or what?
I don't think Luna and Dane are likely to be scum together, but taking there play individually I think either of them could be scum here. Is that what you meant?
I guess this explains the previous post somewhat, but he only makes the distinction when asked by Superbia? You would think that would be something you'd want to put in your post that is supposed to be informative to Superbia, and not only when probed further. In short, he threw out three scum reads he had never mentioned until then, then elaborated on it, but didn't mention he didn't think they were on a team together. That's careless at best; misleading seems more likely.
On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
On September 25 2016 11:02 DoYouHas wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:
On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote: I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ.
I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond.
Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also.
SEQ does not bother me much at all. He reads like he jumped in with both feet and started rooting around. The line you bolded would be weak reasoning if he had actually gone after Xata or spread suspicion on him, but I don't think he did. He moves on pretty quickly and after talking about mafia in a pretty general sense (not unusual for someone new to forum mafia, especially with Jealous getting into it too) he seems to be scumhunting. You have picked a pretty early statement from him that does not, to me, hold the significance you are assigning it.
Calix is right. The sequence seems pretty forced. DYH said "I'll exchange your read on ptmc for my read on SEQ" when his read on SEQ is null. And it also looks like he was waiting of Stutters to go "OK what's your read on SEQ now ?"; but Stutters didn't, and DYH said it anyway. It looks like it was planned to appear to have a conversation.
Or maybe, just maybe, both of your assumptions are wrong here.
1. I wasn't providing a null read on SEQ 2. I was actually trying to have a conversation with someone I townread.
Stutters being the "someone I townread," which he did with "gut" in the first few hours of the game, which he never mentioned again. Also note that he still hasn't provided anything as he had promised at the start.
On September 26 2016 11:56 DoYouHas wrote: GRAH, I CAN'T MAKE IT STICK
For everything I don't like about you and think makes you scum: Your early fluff, non-committal, over-defensiveness, appeals to your noobieness, misrepresenting me, buddying Calix, looking at the proposal of multiple wagons from a mafia perspective instead of a town one (looking at it as a trap to be avoided instead of as an opportunity for better VCA) I can't seem to find the mafia actions in your play around the lynch. If I'm having trouble convincing myself of probably the most important part when I undoubtedly have my confirmation bias glasses on it probably isn't there. I was seeing your tonal shifts from casually attacking Luna to guarded consideration then back to casual attacking as very odd. But the thing I can't figure out if you are scum is why you would leave your vote on Luna and not Stutters before the wagon on Luna got rolling. This post:
On September 25 2016 17:17 Jealous wrote: I have to agree with Calix on the more anti-town part. ## Lunaticman just in case I don't make it back.
It doesn't fit or is significantly more clever than I am.
Damn, damn, damn. I hate having no scum reads. I really do need to get to bed though. See you all with the daypost.
This takes him a whole hour and he calls me all sorts of terrible but still can't make a case. This means he is town/null-reading everyone in the game, was pushing a lynch/scumread since his first few posts D1 that he himself can't support and had given no concrete evidence on at all until he was forced to draw some out. That is simply foolish, and scummy in my book.
These are his last two posts, nearly a day ago. And frankly, I don't think they are very good. Although I think Rels post did have some stuff I didn't agree with, and DYH pointed them out, the rest of it was pretty weak. He doesn't make much sense in some parts nor does he substantiate much of his argument about why DH or I were scummy, which he references a few times. His earlier posts on the subject were, as you can see above, were weak as well, so it's not like he could reference some strong analysis from before.
Overall, I think DYH is scum. I don't think neither Xata nor skynx are worth a vote right now, but I will definitely look into them more in detail. There are still some fishy things I don't like about Xata and Skynx doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game in certain posts of his, which I don't like but can't necessarily say is scummy until I see them side-by-side in analysis.
So yea, I voted DYH.
He acknowledges that DYH is someone that pretty much everyone agrees is scummy, yet he thinks that it's a good use of his time to make a massive case against him and hop on the train because 'he doesn't have that many votes on him'. Keep in mind that DYH is the leading train at this point with the Xatalos/ Skynx thing being supported by almost nobody save for each other and Stutters having a few supporters. That is it. The Stutters train was not even a thing for most of the day.
He references a fair number of arguments used by other players (TT, myself, etc) and the points he added aren't anything massively incriminating in retrospect. My point? It makes me wonder why Jealous felt the need to devote a large amount of his time to a case on someone that he was already scum-reading given that he largely rehashes the arguments of other players and this is all on a player that he's already given opinions on. That's not a case of bad priorities, that's posting for the hell of it.
If you want an example of not-scummy points he raised, look no further than him criticising DYH for going "Lunatic, Jealous, DanelerH are my scum-reads" because "that team makes no sense". This is all fine and dandy...if we were talking about a post made on Day 4. That's not the case though; he's talking about reads made early on Day 1. Most players do not consider associative tells that early on in the game because the goal is to lynch a scum. Until then, you have no concrete information to base associative reads from so criticising DYH for that is nit-picky and doesn't add anything to the argument.
This is also one of the worst EOD posts:
On September 29 2016 06:40 Jealous wrote: I'm starting to WIFOM over the fact that DYH showed up just before EoD when the train is on him. Like, would a scum normally do this? I don't think I would lol. The reason it's WIFOM is because maybe he is trying to make people doubt his scumminess last second and shenanie? I'm locked in but I'll feel a little bad about it if he flips town ):
As you can see, he is showing some doubt over DYH flipping scum. That's all fine, nothing to see there, but his reasoning is absolutely insane.
tl;dr:
- DYH showed up when he got voted - Scum wouldn't bother to turn up because scum!Jealous would not bother
As Rels said earlier, this is a piss-poor reason to start doubting a scum-read when a) scum 100% would want to defend themselves so that they...don't get lynched and b) time-zones/ RL commitments can also influence if someone arrives at EOD.
That's not a strong enough explanation to make anyone doubt themselves about a read, especially after the case that Jealous made where he concluded 'scum'. The mere act of posting at EOD when you are being voted has jack shit to do with your alignment.
Furthermore, he wasn't interested in switching wagons from DYH so I see no logical or emotional motivation for this sudden doubt. Thus I'm concluding that he's full of shit. That post had him stretching so hard for an excuse to distance from the ML that he sprained a muscle.
I don't think this makes Jealous scum. If you're scum why just not vote DYH without giving any reason and live happily ever after
On September 29 2016 06:24 Calix wrote: Actually I have one question. DYH, who are you going to vote for and why? Don't spend ages on answering this, lol.
##Vote: Scott
I've been thinking about Superbia's kill. There are 4 reasons I can think of for it.
1. Medic dodge. 2. Town is off track, didn't want a fresh vet voice changing things 3. Superbia is on right track 4. WIFOM salad
#1 is obviously the case. With their RB gone they aren't going to target Calix (most townread person N1). #2 is iffy. Obviously taking out a fresh voice in Superbia accomplishes this, but he isn't heavily townread and he has stated repeatedly that he was going to be lazy this game. #3 is the most likely case. After losing your RB the first night you can't risk someone with correct suspicions putting you down 0-2. Most common reason to kill someone, also makes the most sense from the mafia perspective this game. #4 is very unlikely. There are too many people who have established themselves decently as town, too many people more productive than Superbia.
##Vote DHY
???
There you go guys, 3 manners of voting on an already happening lynch. Suit yourselves.
Bleh.. I always return to the fact that scum simply has to reside within Skynx/scott. Both make good sense with partners for Lunatic. Both are left after process of elimination. Both are scumreading me for... basically having doubts about them. Skynx is more probable as Lunatic's partner, and NK analysis favors scott.
In any case, they should be both lynched over stutters every time.
If stutters keeps getting votes, I'll probably need to share my other reason. But the first reason (Lunatic's scum->town-like reaction to stutters) is already pretty clear.
On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote: So stutters is modkilled at EON?
Sorry guys. I got really busy.
Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled.
Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game.
At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing.
He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting.
EPT
