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On June 30 2016 04:09 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 03:47 Damdred wrote:
Also besides that fact Jean can't really be allowed to reach lylo or if he's scum he auto wins if hes here at start of day meh. Why can I specifically not be allowed to reach lylo Damdred? Also, why are you trying to take care of that problem now. For someone bitching about how you're one of the best players in the game you're showing a tremendously weak grasp of scumhunting. There is no way I flip mafia, because I have not done anything a mafia would do. I am helpful I lynch mafia I am transparent I explain my reads I help push the game I push buttons on people to make them talk It is actually amazing that I know in this situation that one of Artanis and Damdred must not be mafia (and if I'm right on chez, neither is). Because those two people specifically should know the very situation that has come up, being very experienced. I know I have seen this situation before, multiple times. I lynch mafia and then surely I must have bussed on day 2 because people fear me. I am not this good at playing mafia, no one is. One of the things I would like an input on from other people post-game is how to avoid this specific situation, I thought I did well on day 1, I thought I put myself in a position, yet players who at least claim to be good at this game are literally head up to waist in their asses thinking I surely must be mafia because only mafia would lynch mafia and play like town. That is perfect logic.
The main reason I think you're mafia is because you're playing survivalist and because everyone else bar Chez is extremely Town. Also, mafia does all of those things, are you kidding? Mafia's the party that wants to look good.
On June 30 2016 04:05 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 03:55 Tictock wrote:On June 30 2016 03:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 03:48 Tictock wrote:
Besides if Jean flips town the last scum would basically have to be either Damdred or I from the way we are pushing this right? I don't think either of you is going to flip scum regardless honestly. Damdred is never scum and you seem very unlikely to be scum as well from how the game's developed. You've gotten more and more into the game as it's progressed whereas scum has been getting trounced. That with the fakeclaim which would've given you a fine excuse to just concede, I'm quite certain you're town. What I'm hearing is that this wagon is pure as fuck and everyone should get on it... I still think it's too much of a risk to take at this juncture, and would prefer to only do it if it is forced upon us as we progress through the D/N cycles. There are still quite a few cycles left until Jean becomes invincible as scum, which means plenty of other developments can occur that would help shed light on Jean and others in the game. Maybe my balls aren't big enough to join you on this wagon or perhaps I tend to be risk-averse, either way I am sticking to my guns (Damdred) on this one because it is the strongest case I've seen developed on a purely logical scale (as in, ignoring meta). If Damdred flips green, I have some other avenues to pursue but I don't want to reveal those until someone gets NK'd. Maybe scum will eliminate some possibilities and if I post my suspicions now, scum will be less likely to remove them from town's radar.
Logic is an awful guide in mafia. Townies are illogical as hell whilst mafia's very concerned with it.
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Basically, your post just explained in detail that you're behaving the way you think town should behave. It's all artificial, and the only party that needs to put on a charade on how townie they are is mafia.
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On June 30 2016 04:14 Skynx wrote:
Bah I'm so nakkered but w/e, whats up then?
We're lynching our mayor whom lynched mafia D1 because he's probably mafia.
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Mafia odds
60% JVJ
37% Chez
3% Superbia/Skynx
0% anyone else.
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On June 30 2016 04:16 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Can't really get anything out of the vote counts. We already know MD committed suicide-by-mayor and EC ended up parking his vote on TW (off-wagon) and didn't come back until 90 min past deadline. Could've actually been AFK, could've been strategical, but there's strategical reasons for him to be afk whether JVJ is scum or not. He positioned himself in a way that he couldn't end up voting for either wagon but could probably justify a vote on either still.
I also went through Chez's filter but didn't find much in it to sway me one way or the other. Bleh. Compare Chez's filter with his efforts in, for example, Names are hard, where he actually contributed to hunting scum. Sure, he might be full on troll this game and only part time troll last game, and I'll be the first to admit, I am terrible at reading trolling or weird players (I mentioned this with Moosy and Chez at some point on Day 1). None of this changes the fact that I have this expectation that in his own weird way Chez is always going to be useful to town. That is precisely the reason I enjoy playing with him despite him being a troll, which is something I generally don't like. He is actually a capable scum hunter and he is very much able to help town win when he puts his mind to it, and none of this is what I've seen so far. Not to mention, this is getting to be almost PoE. I have no idea if scumdred or scumtock would have the balls to attack me. I know you would, but I just have too many reasons to give you a pass today.
Taking a single game from Chez' history doesn't do him justice. He plays differently in just about each game he plays. I agree that he's usually useful as town, but he can also go AFK for extended periods as either alignment. This game it appears he's been busy and he did make some insights here and there, though they were more vague in construct.
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On June 30 2016 04:19 Skynx wrote:
Wow thats like impossible just cuz he could have easily just go for the other target (I forgot who) cuz no one would blame him for not lynching Moosy cuz of his bs tactics.
You are aware bussing is a thing right? And Moosy is someone likely to die at some point anyway. The cred could definitely be worth it. Plus, there'd have been a lot of backlash had he lynched a town Superbia, and in the eventuality of JVJ being scum it has to be him that brings it home.
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On June 30 2016 04:26 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 04:09 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 30 2016 03:47 Damdred wrote:
Also besides that fact Jean can't really be allowed to reach lylo or if he's scum he auto wins if hes here at start of day meh. Why can I specifically not be allowed to reach lylo Damdred? Also, why are you trying to take care of that problem now. For someone bitching about how you're one of the best players in the game you're showing a tremendously weak grasp of scumhunting. There is no way I flip mafia, because I have not done anything a mafia would do. I am helpful I lynch mafia I am transparent I explain my reads I help push the game I push buttons on people to make them talk It is actually amazing that I know in this situation that one of Artanis and Damdred must not be mafia (and if I'm right on chez, neither is). Because those two people specifically should know the very situation that has come up, being very experienced. I know I have seen this situation before, multiple times. I lynch mafia and then surely I must have bussed on day 2 because people fear me. I am not this good at playing mafia, no one is. One of the things I would like an input on from other people post-game is how to avoid this specific situation, I thought I did well on day 1, I thought I put myself in a position, yet players who at least claim to be good at this game are literally head up to waist in their asses thinking I surely must be mafia because only mafia would lynch mafia and play like town. That is perfect logic. The main reason I think you're mafia is because you're playing survivalist and because everyone else bar Chez is extremely Town. Also, mafia does all of those things, are you kidding? Mafia's the party that wants to look good. I'm playing survivalist because that is what I have to do. I don't particularly want to, but I have to. Notice though that in the process I'm still trying to figure the game out. I have laid out reasons for everything I've done. Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 04:05 Jealous wrote:On June 30 2016 03:55 Tictock wrote:On June 30 2016 03:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 03:48 Tictock wrote:
Besides if Jean flips town the last scum would basically have to be either Damdred or I from the way we are pushing this right? I don't think either of you is going to flip scum regardless honestly. Damdred is never scum and you seem very unlikely to be scum as well from how the game's developed. You've gotten more and more into the game as it's progressed whereas scum has been getting trounced. That with the fakeclaim which would've given you a fine excuse to just concede, I'm quite certain you're town. What I'm hearing is that this wagon is pure as fuck and everyone should get on it... I still think it's too much of a risk to take at this juncture, and would prefer to only do it if it is forced upon us as we progress through the D/N cycles. There are still quite a few cycles left until Jean becomes invincible as scum, which means plenty of other developments can occur that would help shed light on Jean and others in the game. Maybe my balls aren't big enough to join you on this wagon or perhaps I tend to be risk-averse, either way I am sticking to my guns (Damdred) on this one because it is the strongest case I've seen developed on a purely logical scale (as in, ignoring meta). If Damdred flips green, I have some other avenues to pursue but I don't want to reveal those until someone gets NK'd. Maybe scum will eliminate some possibilities and if I post my suspicions now, scum will be less likely to remove them from town's radar. Logic is an awful guide in mafia. Townies are illogical as hell whilst mafia's very concerned with it. Some townies are very logical, for example, yours truly. In fact, almost every townie who is actually consistently really good at this game is logical. I mean, it's hard to not ridicule you when your thought process is: Jean wants to stay alive - like a townie Jean lynches mafia - like a townie Jean is logical - like townies should strife to be Jean is transparent - like a townie should be Jean is helpful and willing to engage and explain - like a townie should be Jean fought for the mayor role - something mafia NEVER does Conclusion: Jean is mafia. Q.E.D I am of course massively frustrated with both myself for not figuring out how to beat sense into you guys, and at you guys for being so immensely stupid to think it's even possible I am mafia.Show me ONE mafia in the past year on team liquid who has played a game anywhere like what I've done here. Even the best scum players cling to weak arguments, are uncooperative and don't show the leadership I've shown. You are lynching objectively the most townie player you have ever seen on TL Mafia. No I'm not one of those people who can throw a tantrum or say something dumb and become an innocent child in the process, but I have, for all intents and purposes, played what should be an exemplary perfect town game. I let logic guide me to a scum lynch. I made sure scum had no shot at the mayor role, and I've argued and fought in the reasonable and helpful way we want this forum to work in, and the reward is an inane suspicion from people whose best reasons to attack me is literally "he's trying to survive" and "he's trying to solve the game BUT admits not having read every post". It is no wonder we have the behavioral issues we have on this site, the only way people will believe anything you say is if you become an emotional trainwreck, something I will not allow myself to do because I am trying to set an example here. Even if it means getting lynched, which I believe should be every town's #1 priority to avoid.
These comments make it really, really hard not to just want to afk lynch you and stop talking to you. For someone who claims to be playing to win you're not doing a very good job at diplomacy.
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On June 30 2016 04:33 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 04:19 Skynx wrote:
Wow thats like impossible just cuz he could have easily just go for the other target (I forgot who) cuz no one would blame him for not lynching Moosy cuz of his bs tactics. You are aware bussing is a thing right? And Moosy is someone likely to die at some point anyway. The cred could definitely be worth it. Plus, there'd have been a lot of backlash had he lynched a town Superbia, and in the eventuality of JVJ being scum it has to be him that brings it home. Alright so here are few reasons why this is not that good of a strategy: 1) Moosy nearly always survive day1 the way I understand the meta so if you really want to bus someone the target definitely should've been emp cuz some were sr'ing him anyway. 2) Emperor didn't really bus Moosy or tried to get credit for the kill either which he has done in newbie mafia. 3) If he really want's to get cred as mafia I'd think he woulda add some flair to his post like how HF or Palmar does, you know one of those 'I'm a fkin god' memes. I think his cred for his kill kinda went under the radar.
1) Yeah, but Moosy will die at some point in the game before LYLO. When he's mayor and pulls the trigger, he gets the cred.
2) Uhh? We know for a fact both Emperor and Moosy were scum so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
3) He kind of has been, but he couldn't do it too much given he stated it wasn't as much of a lynch where he expected to hit scum as much as it was policy and how they 'should' flip mafia in that situation.
Thinking of that, that might actually be the best reason yet why he might be town.
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On June 30 2016 04:42 Skynx wrote:These lynches are wrong. We're not hunting a confirmed scum here, we're just considering options. "Hmmm, I'm not feeling like chocolate today so lemme get strawberry ice cream" is wrong, it should be "Oh, I'm definitely feeling like caramel today!" I feel like no one has been conclusive with their reasonings why someone can be scum. We should try a different approach. Here is a thought, you know who's name haven't been mentioned at all by anyone today? + Show Spoiler +
TW is town. It's probably just Chez actually 
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On June 30 2016 04:44 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:37 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 04:33 Skynx wrote:On June 30 2016 04:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 04:19 Skynx wrote:
Wow thats like impossible just cuz he could have easily just go for the other target (I forgot who) cuz no one would blame him for not lynching Moosy cuz of his bs tactics. You are aware bussing is a thing right? And Moosy is someone likely to die at some point anyway. The cred could definitely be worth it. Plus, there'd have been a lot of backlash had he lynched a town Superbia, and in the eventuality of JVJ being scum it has to be him that brings it home. Alright so here are few reasons why this is not that good of a strategy: 1) Moosy nearly always survive day1 the way I understand the meta so if you really want to bus someone the target definitely should've been emp cuz some were sr'ing him anyway. 2) Emperor didn't really bus Moosy or tried to get credit for the kill either which he has done in newbie mafia. 3) If he really want's to get cred as mafia I'd think he woulda add some flair to his post like how HF or Palmar does, you know one of those 'I'm a fkin god' memes. I think his cred for his kill kinda went under the radar. 1) Yeah, but Moosy will die at some point in the game before LYLO. When he's mayor and pulls the trigger, he gets the cred. 2) Uhh? We know for a fact both Emperor and Moosy were scum so I'm not sure what you're getting at here. 3) He kind of has been, but he couldn't do it too much given he stated it wasn't as much of a lynch where he expected to hit scum as much as it was policy and how they 'should' flip mafia in that situation. Thinking of that, that might actually be the best reason yet why he might be town. 2) emp was getting scumread very highly. If lynching Moosy was a mafia decision he would surely put up some case on why we should lynch Moosy. I dunno how thats complicated...
2) Doesn't really need to when he's the one pulling the trigger. MD flipping red would give him all the cred he needs.
I think it's Chez though. Mostly PoE.
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Also he might've been looking to see if he could get away with lynching someone else if he's mafia. But it doesn't matter, JVJ's emotional-trainwreck post that claims not to be an emotional trainwreck probably makes him town.
I just find it very difficult to actually vote for my friend
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On June 30 2016 04:41 GlowingBear wrote:
EC was really important for Mafia for he was the rolecop. With the rolecop ability EC could find the bodyguard faster. That's why Moosy sacrificed himself. That's why Mafia probably voted Jean Valjean day1 (so Mafia wouldn't lose probably their most important role).
That's why Damdred, voting me then hammering Jean, should be the most suspicious person to you guys. Regardless of his play, all hard evidence points him to be EC's partner. It amuses me that you guys are town reading Damdred after all that. He needs to get out of our way, no matter how townie you believe Damdred can be. I'm talking about HARD EVIDENCE.
Come on GB, you know just as well as I do that some people are incapable of doing certain things as mafia. Faking emotions is a big weak spot for Damdred. He doesn't get this upset in this way, nor would he not have conceded by now. Given he KNOWS there's NO WAY he won't be lynched before lylo he would've already conceded.
He also wouldn't have tried this hard during the day.
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I'm sorry my friend, I really am, but I have no choice to save my other friend.. May you find peace with your comrades.
##Unvote
##Vote Chezinu
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On June 30 2016 04:51 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 30 2016 04:41 GlowingBear wrote:
EC was really important for Mafia for he was the rolecop. With the rolecop ability EC could find the bodyguard faster. That's why Moosy sacrificed himself. That's why Mafia probably voted Jean Valjean day1 (so Mafia wouldn't lose probably their most important role).
That's why Damdred, voting me then hammering Jean, should be the most suspicious person to you guys. Regardless of his play, all hard evidence points him to be EC's partner. It amuses me that you guys are town reading Damdred after all that. He needs to get out of our way, no matter how townie you believe Damdred can be. I'm talking about HARD EVIDENCE. Come on GB, you know just as well as I do that some people are incapable of doing certain things as mafia. Faking emotions is a big weak spot for Damdred. He doesn't get this upset in this way, nor would he not have conceded by now. Given he KNOWS there's NO WAY he won't be lynched before lylo he would've already conceded. He also wouldn't have tried this hard during the day. I don't really think he was emotional in this game and I'm not sure he wouldn't concede. This argument is WIFOM, btw. That may be exactly what he wants you to think.
Oh come on, be realistic. Damdred has a scumteam of MD and EC whom die before D2 even starts. He has to live through D2, D3, D4, and D5 and you think he tries this hard?
Give this a good, hard think through, please.
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On June 30 2016 04:52 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:40 Tictock wrote:It is no wonder we have the behavioral issues we have on this site, the only way people will believe anything you say is if you become an emotional trainwreck, something I will not allow myself to do because I am trying to set an example here. Even if it means getting lynched, which I believe should be every town's #1 priority to avoid. This is ironically a very emotionally based statement. I don't think this is actually true though some people like to use emotional reactions to base their reads on. Besides "he's trying to survive" is a very valid method of scum hunting. Motivations behind posting is very much something to be considered. Now that I'm thinking about it, you've been very vocal about how Town should play ... but I'm interested in what your thinking is regarding the best method town should employ when hunting scum. 1) everyone tries to survive. Read my #1 commandment on playing town, it's basically "try not to get lynched". 2) Everyone has their own way of scumhunting. I could write an essay about it, but it's usually a combination of multiple factors. Take current Artanis for example, he's very much a combination read for me. Scumpoint: Artanis is a good player who is playing extremely badlyTownpoint: Artanis has a long filter Townpoint: Artanis is jolly and willing to chase random things, like smurfhunting, he's also being a dick in a way that feels townie Scumpoint: His logic was way off on day 1 and he let himself be pushed around Townpoint: He's still actively playing when his meta suggests he would usually quit or lower his effort as scum when this far behind. Townpoint: He is making a big play if he's mafia. If he knows I'll flip town he also knows massive attention will come to him when I'm dead. Scumpoint: He is one of the few players who might go for the "go big or go home" approach, sort of contesting my pervious point These are just random thoughts. Then there's tone in individual posts and interactions, and I don't weigh all points equally. In general it's easiest to find mafia when someone ticks many scum boxes. This means of course that my read on Artanis is swingy and conflicted, but in general I don't want to kill him becuase there's simply too many reasons not to. Because no one that is actually playing in this town ticks all the scum boxes, I simply think the most straightforward play is to kill Chezinu, who is uncharacteristically useless and by process of elimination the most likely to flip mafia.
Oh, shut it. If it is in fact Chez then I've never given a hard townread on any scum and I managed to clear my name quite solidly. Your dickwaving happening during D1 also did little but prove you have a giant ego.
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On June 30 2016 04:54 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also he might've been looking to see if he could get away with lynching someone else if he's mafia. But it doesn't matter, JVJ's emotional-trainwreck post that claims not to be an emotional trainwreck probably makes him town. I just find it very difficult to actually vote for my friend Literally the cancer that's killing TL Mafia. Hint: I am perfectly aware my recent posting is emotional (despite claiming it isn't), does that change your opinion?
Nope.
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On June 30 2016 04:53 GlowingBear wrote:
Art, the only way I won't try to lynch damdy today is if you don't try to lynch Jean today.
That's what I'm doing. Chop chop.
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On June 30 2016 04:59 Jean Valjean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:49 Skynx wrote:On June 30 2016 04:34 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 30 2016 04:23 Tictock wrote:
Eh maybe not.
So Jean assume this crazy town does in fact lynch you.
Would you say Chez should definitely be the next lynch? Probably Chez Possibly Artanis, but that's mostly because I don't want to live in a world where he is this bad and town. It's based on nothing but Artanis' skill level at the game. Maybe Skynx, in face of overwhelming ignorance he seems to KNOW I am town, and his contributions dropped off quite fast. I don't want to call for people's head for not being bad, but who knows. My suspicions on him is mostly based on his strong early game and weak game ever since (which might be mafia indicative). In general, I believe the game will sort of solve itself. GB is confirmed and unkillable so mafia must hunt for the bodyguard. We definitely have one unclaimed blue role so there's that too, which might help. I do apologise for my absence. It's basically due to the fact that after my 1st scum game, I think I played 1 very good town game and playing good right now aswell so I got lazy because i was so town. Also other stuff like work and all but lack of activity today is purely due to lazyness This is a relatively townie response to be honest. (tonally)
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On June 30 2016 04:59 Skynx wrote:
Alright lets try this, who's everyone's next target if Damdred dies tonight?
Whoever the most possible spite lynch is for the rest of the game.
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On June 30 2016 05:00 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2016 04:56 Tictock wrote:So GB... On June 25 2016 09:29 MoosyDoosy wrote:On June 25 2016 09:27 Damdred wrote:
Oh emperor is interesting opinions would,be nice. i'm p sure he's town tbh. You think Moosy is defending his scum buddy Emp from his scum buddy Damdred here? That's wifom? Why couldn't he interact with Damdred?
Protip: If your only explanation for every point brought up is wifom, you may be tunneled.
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EPT
