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On January 17 2016 02:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 02:02 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:56 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:50 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:41 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote:
Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage? I think you should probably first answer this: On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest.
I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town. I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads. When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia. But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!!It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......) I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town. Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time? On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote:
Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously. Actually judging from your case you started scumreading Holyflare when he made his vote on Damdred.... This is not true at all, what gives you this idea? It is a part of your case. Unless you decided to quote a post in your case which is NOT part of your case. My interpretation of that post changed based as Holyflare did more (or rather, didn't...), and as I thought about it differently.
Initially I had no problems with it, however as Holyflare posted more reads, I felt that he was making a ton of scumreads and not actually caring about them. This is not a conclusion that could be made until Holyflare made more posts (including showing that he was actually caring about the game).
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On January 17 2016 02:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 01:56 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:50 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:41 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 01:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 17 2016 01:26 Trfel wrote:
Raynpelikoneet, Holyflare, any thoughts on NocturneMage? I think you should probably first answer this: On January 15 2016 21:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 15 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote:Meh, here goes nothing. AlotSomuch is townOn January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote:
Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation. This is even more crappy read than the one on ritoky to be honest. I don't think there is any way Trfel to come to this conclusion as town because this post basically says that Alot's actions are townie because he would not want to aggravate town!Holyflare (which he doesn't even necessarily think is the case here -- since this reads post, orhis other posts doesn't include a townread on Holyflare). Not to even mention Alot has never played with Holyflare earlier so there is no reason to think the thought process is legit in the first place EVEN IF Holyflare was town. I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads. When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia. But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!!It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......) I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town. Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time? On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote:
Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work.
This is a story about consent and the lack thereof.
Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape.
The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time.
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
The hosts have raped me.
Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously. How the fuck can you come to a conclusion this could be alignment indicative in ANY way???? Especially in the direction you claim. This is a general pattern for people, what don't you understand?
People as town will tend to be a bit more carefree and do whatever they want, people as scum are more focused on only doing what is necessary (generally making reads). I also feel that this is true for Holyflare. See Aperture 4, see the game where he was trying to run a gameshow. See his scum games, he's largely focused on the game. However, it's something that is possible to replicate as mafia, so it's only a little bit town indicative as a trend, instead of proof.
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On January 17 2016 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean like if you townread him for being angry and not playing properly in a sense that he doesn't really care then you assume he is telling the truth about having no time to play (beyond the surface level) and then his play after that perfectly fits this narrative. But then.. you scumread him for it? I didn't townread him for being angry and saying that he had no time to play. I townread him for doing things that aren't strictly necessary from a mafia perspective.
In this game, Holyflare made a bunch of posts that didn't directly further his plan, notably the one I quoted. A direct route to accomplishing the same thing would have been:
"I think that Damdred is mafia because of xyz. I don't have much time to play because changing the game start by one day really affects my availability with respect to the deadlines."
Thus, I had a town lean on Holyflare.
Then, Holyflare made several scum reads at different points, causing me to think that he didn't care about his reads, as I described in my first post about him. This is much stronger than my initial town lean, and also, Holyflare scumreading 3 people and having zero townreads showed a more "direct" approach from a mafia perspective, changing my initial read.
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Raynpelikoneet, I have no idea what you're doing.
I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare.
His focus on scumreads was not scummy in and of itself, however it was contrary to the point that made me think he might be town earlier, which was the indirect approach.
Also, when I say focus, I mean focus on scumreads relative to townreads. His scum reads weren't focused at all, they were more random, it felt like throwing darts on a dartboard and hoping that something stuck.
If you still don't understand this, then I really don't know what to say. This is very simple and I have no clue how you keep saying things that simply are not true.
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On January 17 2016 02:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Which is kinda ridiculous since it seems like you are not really scumreading him for his actual actions but the motivation behind it. Um, that's exactly what I was doing, or at least trying to do.
If I'm reading your statement correctly, then it's probably the biggest compliment I've ever received for my mafia play, so thank you.
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It is very concerning that Holyflare left as soon as I backed off of him and raynpelikoneet started focusing on me...
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On January 17 2016 02:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:Here is a post you say you townread Holyflare for: Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote:
[...]
This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent.
[...] The post literally says "i don't have time to play properly". If you townread Holyflare for this post (which is what you said), i assume you also think he is telling the truth in what he says in this post. Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 02:32 Trfel wrote:
I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare. And then you claim this bullshit? I am not saying you townread him FOR not having time to play properly. I am saying you MUST believe this BECAUSE you townread him. And then again we come to this. You believe HF has no time to play properly -> he does what's BEST to do if he tells the truth here and is town (which is what you believe) -> you scumread him for it. It doesn't make any sense. What?
Just because I townread someone for a post doesn't mean that I believe everything they said in the post. Like, if you made a joke about supporting Donald Trump, I might townread you for it, but I would certainly hope you didn't actually mean what you said. (yes, I'm actually being political for once  )
My townread on Holyflare was primarily based on that post, but the statement that he had no time to play properly had NOTHING to do with it.
I expect town with limited time to care about the game just as much as town with infinite time. Holyflare's play doesn't show a lack of time to play the game (I mean, he's posted less than he normally does, but whatever. That's not important). Instead, it shows disinterest, and that he doesn't care about lynching his scumreads. Which is completely different from time issues.
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I don't even know about Holyflare any more, can we PLEASE just talk about NocturneMage?
I've spent this past hour arguing about something I don't care about so that I can try to get someone to talk about my scumread. Can we just lynch mafia instead of wasting time?
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I'll be back later. Please, look at NocturneMage, he is mafia.
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Holyflare
Can we just ignore raynpelikoneet and lynch mafia?
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On January 17 2016 08:05 DoYouHas wrote:
Well I guess my question doesn't matter anymore.
@Trfel, I agree with you that NM has a good chance of flipping scum. Let me gather up my thoughts to try and convince people.
##Vote: NocturnMage Let's do this thing 
You go first, then I'll go afterwards if it's needed.
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On January 17 2016 08:16 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:00 Trfel wrote:Holyflare Can we just ignore raynpelikoneet and lynch mafia? Not considering material (or not furthering why what I've laid out since you last AFKed that it's scummy) and keeping the same stance doesn't make you look any more townie at all. I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say here, do you mind rephrasing this more simply/directly?
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@NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia
I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect.
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VisceraEyes, why do you think that I am mafia? Because I am not, and I'd like you to lynch mafia with me.
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On January 17 2016 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:23 Trfel wrote:
VisceraEyes, why do you think that I am mafia? Because I am not, and I'd like you to lynch mafia with me. It's based on how you gave your original mafia read and based on how you're approaching the game so far. I don't know if you responded to my original point or not, I haven't fully read the thread, but it was basically that your initial accusation post felt weak and obligatory. If you must know, I was attempting to save a game that I was worried would need to be aborted, again.
About half of my reasons to scumread ritoky were fluff, about half were genuine reasons. Did they warrant a vote? No. Was I actually suspicious of him? Yes, but I have learned from experience that if I say the level of suspicion that I actually feel, no one listens because I'm apparently too wishy-washy to talk to.
I've been trying to solve the game and work with people throughout, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that my approach to the game is scummy.
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On January 17 2016 08:29 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote:@NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect. I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that? Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him? Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it? I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.
My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played.
To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it.
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On January 17 2016 08:44 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:34 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2016 08:29 NocturneMage wrote:On January 17 2016 08:20 Trfel wrote:@NocturneMage, I am ignoring geript and Palmar (and AlotSomuch) because I am not sure about them, and because you are mafia I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect. I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that? Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him? Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it? I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more. My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played. To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it. Here's the thing, the reason I'm asking you this is accountability. You're driving a mislynch one way or another. DYH I can't tell at the moment if he's town having a bad read on me because he's just not been in this game or if he's mafia trying to get the easiest ML he can manage. And Trfel if you are town, then I think you're not entirely accurate on the Palmar meta. He trolled the shit out of people in Outlaw, and in Down Under 3 from obsing I recall him being more serious yelling at people who didn't follow him. It's a faulty reason to town him in your worldview. Um, my read is entirely correct.
Palmar didn't troll at all in Outlaw Mafia (at least not in the first three days, pretty sure he didn't after that, either). At least, not relative to Palmar, anyway.
An example of Palmar trolling is shown in Down Under 2, where Palmar was talking to two or three other Palmars. Another example of Palmar trolling is shown in Linux Mafia, where he mocked the recently released movie "The Interview" by drawing attention to himself without furthering the game in any way. It's not something I can explain, you'd have to read it to believe it.
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Okay, looking through Palmar's filter, it appears that my townread on Palmar is really awful. My bad. He definitely has been approaching this game "seriously", but without the fire that Palmar has as town when he thinks he found mafia.
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Holyflare is town, I think.
VisceraEyes, remind me, what is your read on Palmar? You know him a lot better than I do.
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On January 17 2016 08:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hmmmm....If it were anyone but Holyflare I'd probably let that slide.
Holyflare you're going to have to give me a really fast really compelling reason to let you live after that. Please explain why Holyflare's vote switch is scummy?
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EPT
