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On December 17 2015 01:35 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2015 01:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:If you yourself cannot imagine an explanation as to why marv did that in case I'm town, I don't see why I should have the responsability to make up one myself. Because it makes you look bad and it is your responsibility to prove you are town, not mine. No. I think we cannot guess why marv voting DP instead of me. The only logical answers are "Rels is scum" and "DP is probably not scum".
That is true. Which is ultimately why i am voting for you amongst one another reason.
I am honestly terribly sorry if you are town and if that is the case you -- and everyone -- can and should use this game as a reference why you should NEVER base your opinion on someone based on what someone else said. I know i am contradicting myself here in what i believe, but...
.... i don't really think either the hydra or DP would ever make those posts in a way they did as mafia. The posts in itself are not alignment indicative, but the way they came out, and the situation where they were posted makes me think they come from town (Lex/Tina having a holiday together -- DP being genuinely frustrated with not being able to "play with anyone here")... It is a fucking shitty reason, and i know it but this game is too fucking hard, so i am going with my gut. I can't find a convincing case on anyone to be mafia. I just can't.
It's shitty if you are scum Rels, i know it for a fact because i got lynched in XXX the same dumbass way, you put a shitton of effort to the game and get lynched because "noone else can pull this off as mafia". But the fact is i consider you the best scumplayer on the TL forum at this time, and you, if anyone, would try to pull this off. And i don't know if Hydra's / DP's bullshitting capabilities are enough for this.
The truth is i will never ever lynch DP in this game. I won't. And i will make everything in my power to convince Greymist that DP is not mafia in case you happen to flip town. And if you flip town i am truly going to be very fucking sad cat. 
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On December 14 2015 05:38 Damdred wrote:
Marv is town, the reason I say this is he hates giving town information if he is scum and going to roll over.
Two hours and thirty to go and he comes in and tries to fins scum? Maybe he gets lynched maybe not but I he basically Poe town and I don't think scum marv does that on his death bed+ tone.
##unvote
The only defense I have is this. marv scum meta is to not give info to town. So I think it's a mistake a look at his actions looking for a rational explanation.
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On December 17 2015 01:39 Rels wrote:
rayn: does marv usually ignore his partners ?
I don't really know to be honest. Most likely not, but i don't think i have ever seen him bus completely except for in the Shadow game..
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On December 17 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The truth is i will never ever lynch DP in this game.
Good.
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On December 16 2015 04:17 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2015 00:15 RtaniSoul wrote:So here's where we're at right now. We kind of think Damdred and Rayn are easy townreads right now. Damdred for being lighthearted and happy to interact. Rayn for not tunneling and actually attempting to interact with his reads. Kind of leaning town on GreY. Just don't think he'd go after Damdy and Rayn when everyone and their mom is townreading them. Especially if Marv is mafia, he'd actually have to line up mislynches and no one wants to lynch either of them right now. We don't think the post about Rayn being vocal was alignment indicative, and a bunch of things in his big post stuck out as townish. One thing we didn't like though was the marv post and trying to get him modkilled instead, but that would be an easy scum tactic that doesn't make much sense in combination with trying to push damdred/rayn. We think he's just wrong mostly. Marv is clearly scum at this point. ##Vote MarvellosityWhich leaves DP and Rels for the last scum. Some of what Rels has posted looks okay and some of it doesn't. There's a few instances where it seems like he's throwing suspicions on people without trying to figure them out like he did The way he approached DP and our slot in a way that seems more focused on burying rather than solving. An exception to that would be this post: On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote:On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
while reading, 2 stood out to me as interesting:
The first is in regards to Damdred/Rels. I felt OK about Dam at first, but it struck me as interesting the way he interacted with Rels when Rels votes Marv. He asks why Rels is policy voting someone when he has a scum read on someone else, a sentiment I have no real issue with. What strikes me as strange is the way Dam seems to play up what Rels is doing as a weird play. The interaction covers most of a page when it seemed like it really didn't need to. I am suspicious of players who have lengthy interactions with others while accomplishing nothing. In addition, after this happens, DP essentially does the exact same thing and yet no reaction from Damdred. This strikes me as odd and I'd like to hear damdred's thoights about DP's vote placement. How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions. On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
The first has occurred recently- forgive me for not quoting at the moment - when Ryan said he was sure that there could not be scum between DP/Hydra/ and Rels And was "certain" there was scum between myself and Marv. To begin, I don't like when people categorize like this. I feel like it benefits mafia to arbitrarily put people into categories to empose their viewpoint on the town. That isn't the main reason I didn't like the post, however. On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda. On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
The problem I have is his sudden change in conviction. Notice before this post he is just asking my opinion, wanting to know what I think of him (I will address this later below). And then, literally the next post he is certain either I or Marv are scum. Also consider that Marv is a guy who has not been here!You cannot be certain that someone is mafia if they have not posted. So basically, Rayn is saying here that he is certain I am mafia. It is this change in attitude, this certainty, and this hiding of his opinion by including Marv in this pairing that aroused my suspicion. He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ? On December 13 2015 09:36 GreYMisT wrote:
First, the way he jumped onto Rels with Damdred seems a bit rushed and oppertunistic to me. As if he is testing the waters to see if he can get something rolling. You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ? Where it feels like he's actually trying to work with GM. Then there was the weird marv vote that also got pinged out by Rayn and Damdred. In the case of Marv being mafia, it gives Rels an excuse to be on him early whilst actually being able to switch to DP as soon as Marv posts. On December 12 2015 23:27 Rels wrote:
##Vote marv
Do stuff or die.
Otherwise here is my mind atm:
rayn
Damdred
grey
Arta/rsoul
marv
DP
About the reiterationOur concern is essentially what we're outlining below. Not the fact that DP is buddying, or that he's not aggressive in isolation, but that he's a non-entity. Those are distinctly different in our minds than saying oh look! DP is buddying people! He must be scum! Or DP is not being aggressive enough! He must be scum! It is more of an overall feel for his presence (or lack thereof) in the thread.
For DP, it feels like he's buddying a bunch of players and the GM scumread seems too easy and shallow. He also spent a lot more time on his townreads than his scumreads. There just doesn't seem to be much drive to find scum in him. It's also telling that we can't really say much about his filter besides a bunch of reasons for people to be town. TownDamdred Raynpelikoneet Leaning TownGreYMisT Leaning ScumRels DarthPunk MafiaMarvellosity Okay, first off we admit that we have been playing this game very lackadaisically. We've been taking full advantage of being a hydra where we can work things out together. We also haven't been paying this game as much attention as it probably deserves. That said, the above post was our reads before marv. Clearly if marv is town, as Lex thought, our two scumreads become Rels and DP. There were 5 votes on Rels when Lex checked the thread, 1 on DP and 1 on marv, so he didn't feel the need to post or change his vote while I was out. He was waiting for me to get back and we both didn't realize deadline was at 4 (our time) instead of 5. As for my comment on Rels...he'd gone after so many people in the thread that it just seemed really unlikely he was scum with DP or GM, and we had strong townreads on Damdred and rayn. So for both of us a Rels lynch was likely to hit scum, though I wasn't assuming marv was town like Lex was. Thus we didn't care perhaps as much as we should have. There are reasons for that but we're not going to go into it. Quite simply you have to ask yourselves why marv tries to get out of his lynch and why we don't take advantage of the Rels lynch. You could make the argument that we just assumed it would go through, and we're horrible scum players who both didn't follow thread and didn't keep track of the deadline when marv, who everyone knows doesn't like to play scum, is trying to get a mislynch. And if you think that's likely, go ahead and lynch us. Then lynch Rels. 
Is it also town indicative to not post while the person you voted for finally post something; to talk by phone (I assume ?) about the game waiting for the other person to come back; then, seeing that they missed the deadline by 1 hour, don't post anything else for 10 hours ?
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On December 17 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
.... i don't really think either the hydra or DP would ever make those posts in a way they did as mafia. The posts in itself are not alignment indicative, but the way they came out, and the situation where they were posted makes me think they come from town (Lex/Tina having a holiday together
BTW: quotes please.
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Funny fact is Rels...
Greymist considers you town and not the hydra.
I am not sure at all, if we lynch the hydra, and they flip town, that Greymist is going to make the correct call in LYLO if i get shot (srsly, noone can fucking even assume Grymist didn't protect me on N1 lol).
So if you want to live another day please convince Greymist you are mafia.
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If you convince Greymist you are mafia i will 100% vote for the Hydra.
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On December 17 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Funny fact is Rels... Greymist considers you town and not the hydra. I am not sure at all, if we lynch the hydra, and they flip town, that Greymist is going to make the correct call in LYLO if i get shot (srsly, noone can fucking even assume Grymist didn't protect me on N1 lol). So if you want to live another day please convince Greymist you are mafia.
He's not there right now, I'm talking to you. Can you quote the posts that made you go "well they cannot bullshit me like that" ?
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Artasoul: you were talking by phone when Arta saw that marv posted right ?
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On December 16 2015 23:20 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2015 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:I really don't know what else to say at the moment. If DP is not going to do anything further i am never switching my vote. I understand this is pretty shitty if he is town as we live on the other sides of the world and we have basically not been in the thread at all at the same time due to time zones / constraints. But still i believe this is the most likely correct answer at this point. it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right. game stuff ends hereI have this feeling in the pit of my stomach like I really want to fight my lynch the way I would have in the past but real life takes too much time to play mafia properly and there is no way I can work a 12 hour day on less than 6 hours sleep. During this game I was able to spend at the most 3 hours per day to read and post in the thread and the way I have always played has been in a very interactive way that requires lots of time and attention and spam Basically the reason I am saying all this because this will be my last game of mafia for the foreseeable future. (No Rayn you will not again convince me to play after I refuse citing time constraints so you can lynch me due to not doing enough.) It is not fair on my past self and all the effort I used to put into this game I loved. I can't play to my own standards and it is incredibly frustrating to be in that situation where instead of a mafia god I am a fucking grandfather who should have already retired. I am grateful though that I got to play in this last game with two of my favourite players ever (marv/Rayn) And someone new who vividly reminds me of how I once played the game. So thanks for that. Also, as it's my own fucking eulogy: Rso you are legit terrible at the game. Artanis fuck you for not trying in vengeful you prick. Rayn thanks for the memories but I still lynched the shit out of you in hydra. Marv you are a god except your ego is a force of fucking nature. Fuck you holy flare. I think that's everything . I'm turning off my phone so I can salvage some sleep. It was a wild ride while it lasted. Peace!
Dick move analysis says DarthPunk is town and i am never going to change my mind on this.
That's all i have to say about this. I am not 100% certain the Hydra is town.
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Basically the reason I am saying all this because this will be my last game of mafia for the foreseeable future. (No Rayn you will not again convince me to play after I refuse citing time constraints so you can lynch me due to not doing enough.)
I am willing to lynch myself over DP if we go to LYLO with Greymist and both of us alive.
I am more sure of a host fuckup than i am of DP being mafia.
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On December 17 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:d as mafia. The posts in itself are not alignment indicative, but the way they came out, and the situation where they were posted makes me think they come from town (Lex/Tina having a holiday together --
[...]
And i don't know if Hydra's bullshitting capabilities are enough for this.
Talking about this. Quote the posts that makes you go "mm Arsoul is not scum 'cause they wouldn't bullshit like that".
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On December 17 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Funny fact is Rels... Greymist considers you town and not the hydra. I am not sure at all, if we lynch the hydra, and they flip town, that Greymist is going to make the correct call in LYLO if i get shot (srsly, noone can fucking even assume Grymist didn't protect me on N1 lol). So if you want to live another day please convince Greymist you are mafia.
Rayn what makes you think that I dont die tonight? im a confirmed town
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On December 17 2015 01:53 Rels wrote:
Artasoul: you were talking by phone when Arta saw that marv posted right ?
No, they are in the same place.
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On December 17 2015 01:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2015 01:53 Rels wrote:
Artasoul: you were talking by phone when Arta saw that marv posted right ? No, they are in the same place.
Then you didn't read their posts properly. Please let them answer the question.
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On December 17 2015 01:57 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Funny fact is Rels... Greymist considers you town and not the hydra. I am not sure at all, if we lynch the hydra, and they flip town, that Greymist is going to make the correct call in LYLO if i get shot (srsly, noone can fucking even assume Grymist didn't protect me on N1 lol). So if you want to live another day please convince Greymist you are mafia. Rayn what makes you think that I dont die tonight? im a confirmed town
So am i. There is no world where i do not vote for Rels on D1 in this game. While you may not know it everyone else does.
The one who is more "capable" of making an incorrect decision lives.
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On December 17 2015 01:58 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2015 01:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 17 2015 01:53 Rels wrote:
Artasoul: you were talking by phone when Arta saw that marv posted right ? No, they are in the same place. Then you didn't read their posts properly. Please let them answer the question.
But i know for a fact they are in the same place, and were, at that time.
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On December 17 2015 01:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2015 01:58 Rels wrote:On December 17 2015 01:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 17 2015 01:53 Rels wrote:
Artasoul: you were talking by phone when Arta saw that marv posted right ? No, they are in the same place. Then you didn't read their posts properly. Please let them answer the question. But i know for a fact they are in the same place, and were, at that time.
Well THEN you DIDNT READ THEIR POSTS PROPERLY and you should FUCKING LET THEM ANSWER THE QUESTION
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Leaving work. rayn please do this:
On December 17 2015 01:56 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2015 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:d as mafia. The posts in itself are not alignment indicative, but the way they came out, and the situation where they were posted makes me think they come from town (Lex/Tina having a holiday together --
[...]
And i don't know if Hydra's bullshitting capabilities are enough for this. Talking about this. Quote the posts that makes you go "mm Arsoul is not scum 'cause they wouldn't bullshit like that".
and don't interfere with my question until they answer pretty please.
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EPT
