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I read fidei s filter and everybody should do that, then vote him.
He really is robotic in tone. I will check if that works as the case in his town games, but I see what Palmer meant.
His ls read seems fake. Around eod, "I would lynch him but I would rather lynch other people." After eod, "Rels and disfo are town if ls is town." Then "actually this confirmed town stuff doesn't convince me", when before eod he was not that convinced on ls to begin with. Now he's still pushing ls for ... I don't really know why.
His filter is focused on very few people. I think he's buddying me.
After Hts became the clear lynch, he didn't do anything. He was playing dota all weekend instead of being motivated to play.
Palmar s main target was fidei and he was the nk.
To everyone: please read his filter and report back.
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To the first person reading this with free time: can you read fidei s past town games and compare the robotic tone to this one
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Both Trfel and fidei scumread nm while townreading dyh which doesn't make sense. Dyh s only real stuff has been his push against hts, which happened after nm being replaced. The association should be obvious to anyone townreading dyh. I don't think anyone else did it.
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Saying "I will vote for X but I'd rather vote for Y" is exactly what I said in Newbie Mafia XIV on d1, when we shenaniganed onto Mafia GB. Alex might remember that.
Not that it really proves anything, I suppose.
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On December 08 2015 02:00 Rels wrote:
To the first person reading this with free time: can you read fidei s past town games and compare the robotic tone to this one
Hm. Interesting he only has five town games in the database. I guess I am not the only one RNGesus doesn't want to be scum.
TBH I am not a big fan of only reading some filters from old games, since without the context and/or a personal connection to that game it is kinda tedious and boring. But I'll run a quick check on his town games in NSM12 and NSM14.
Won't do personality mafia, because I think that game was too crazy to get a good tone from. 
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NSM12 up to day 2: very similar to this. Starting D2 he starts to show a bit of life in his posts when talking with/to HtS and his scum reads.
NSM14 he also sounds very similar to here... well besides this thing:
On September 08 2015 09:05 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 08:58 MoosyDoosy wrote:
eh. i still think it's copcake + fidei with someone else but i might be getting too tunneled. fidei comes off looking worse from this. BEFORE I GO TO BED I WANT TO POINT OUT IN ALL CAPITALS THAT MOOSY HAS NEITHER OF THE CLAIMED F****** DOCTORS IN HIS F****** SCUM LIST. LIKE IT MIGHT NOT BE EITHER OF THEM? Are you kidding me with this shit?
But playing with cupcake can be rather rage inducing. So I understand.
But the overwhelming amount of posts sounds like this game. So I guess that is just his default tone and dub him Mr. Roboto.
Will look at his filter from this game more closely now.
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On December 08 2015 01:58 Rels wrote:
I read fidei s filter and everybody should do that, then vote him.
He really is robotic in tone. I will check if that works as the case in his town games, but I see what Palmer meant.
His ls read seems fake. Around eod, "I would lynch him but I would rather lynch other people." After eod, "Rels and disfo are town if ls is town." Then "actually this confirmed town stuff doesn't convince me", when before eod he was not that convinced on ls to begin with. Now he's still pushing ls for ... I don't really know why.
His filter is focused on very few people. I think he's buddying me.
After Hts became the clear lynch, he didn't do anything. He was playing dota all weekend instead of being motivated to play.
Palmar s main target was fidei and he was the nk.
To everyone: please read his filter and report back.
I'm marking this for reference because I am looking at this post and there are a slew of things that are throwing me off. Not because I think this post looks scummy but because there is a lot of subjectivity in this read.
Tone reads are tone reads. I was taught prior to this game they are very subjective, and generally best for day 1 reads but as a strong meta read through this is day 3? it just seems weak without other evidence like voting analysis etc. or if you can tie the meta to something else. Like when he acts X, he does Y in conjunction with Z. Tie the tone to actions. Tie the tone to effects. Am I making sense?
Separate from that however, I will look into the LS read. The unflipped association is really bad but townies also make unflipped association all the time. I pushed LS because he was doing dick all and only such after the fact, and most critically, he failed to push HTS when he found her end of cycle questionable. We both agreed the LS filter was complete trash through the end of day 2, so if LS's game has gotten better (to be fair I stopped reading after the hts lynch) AND if Fidei is continuing to push the lynch, then it does look really bad. I guess it comes down to what work he's put in to get his conclusions. I am putting aside LS for now based on the NKs personally.
Back to James focusing on a few people, I can understand as a scum indicative, ignoring time (which can account for town not having the time), it can indicate an agenda. Because mafia need mislynches. I can get that. The same argument however can be made for DYH, but this last thing I looked at him, he doesn't seem to have a lot of time playing the game? Both were making in and out excuses, so only the NK analysis separates those two.
To use another example, FF was playing Fallout 4 all weekend. But NKs don't/didn't implicate him, so...
Also this term called buddying. I had recently shadowed marvellosity and I asked him a question about the difference between buddying and pocketing. And that they were both related.
I didn't understand it in the context you were using it, so I looked it up.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Buddying
Buddying is a tactic used to subconsciously become perceived as less of a threat by another player. While this is usually done by scum, Townies have been known to do this as well.
This is typically accomplished by the buddying player acting unnaturally friendly to its target, either subtly or outright. Originally, this made it so that once the buddying scum died, it implicated the victim they were acting friendly toward. In addition, by budding up to a victim, they will become less likely to want to lynch the buddying player in the first place. More recently, though, this has become used as a pre-emptive accusation against anyone who acts nicely toward another player, regardless of intent.
So I look at this definition Rels, and I am trying to think of a time where Fidei acts "unnaturally friendly" towards you. Lack of scepticism? He explained using meta why he's townreading you but are you saying it's bad meta to townread you or was there another quote that you using to say he's buddying you?
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On December 08 2015 02:35 Fidei86 wrote:
Saying "I will vote for X but I'd rather vote for Y" is exactly what I said in Newbie Mafia XIV on d1, when we shenaniganed onto Mafia GB. Alex might remember that.
Not that it really proves anything, I suppose.
Yeah there were parts of that first paragraph I disagreed with. Or that I don't feel are completely mafia indicative.
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I mean I look at that criteria and I think Trfel looks significantly worse. NK analysis, check. focus on limited people (i.e. me...) check. Tonally, Trfel is throwing around the same "woe is me" when people aren't listening to him. Subjective yes, but same criteria.
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here's an overall read progression:
On December 03 2015 03:17 Trfel wrote:
I'm going to eat lunch, I'll get to Rels and Fidei86 after. Fidei86 is probably an okay lynch, but I need to read his filter first.
Putting off reading Damdred until he answers my question, it would help me to read him greatly.
Otherwise, I could lynch MoosyDoosy today.
I don't want to lynch Onegu today for stupid reasons.
On December 03 2015 03:50 Trfel wrote:
Ugh, I need to actually get lunch, but here's my thing on MoosyDoosy really quick.
When he checked his role PM, he said he was town, and he got really frustrated. Then three minutes later, he seemed quite happy. Throughout his filter, he seems really happy and there's no hint of frustration at all. This doesn't match.
On December 03 2015 04:18 Trfel wrote:
I was thinking about it over lunch. MoosyDoosy is nearly guaranteed scum.
There's everything you could ask for except for baby seals.
Voting for MoosyDoosy. You should, too.
On December 03 2015 04:58 Trfel wrote:
Half the Sky, MoosyDoosy is mafia and needs to be lynched. Trust me.
On December 03 2015 06:23 Trfel wrote:
Like, this isn't a policy lynch at all.
MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's bad. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's useless. MoosyDoosy isn't being lynched because he's obnoxious.
MoosyDoosy is being lynched because his play has too many contradictions and has no possible town mindset behind it, while it fits perfectly with mafia motivation of contributing as little as possible, in this case relying on meta to avoid the Day 1 lynch.
(leaving out 4-5 quotes on his push on Moosy)
then.....AFTER end of cycle.....
On December 03 2015 08:30 Trfel wrote:
I'm not quite as confident in MoosyDoosy being scum any more, because generally people would listen to me when I'm right. Like, I don't see how I could be wrong, however I need to clear my head and take another look. I think he is likely scum, though.
I'm not sure what his post-deadline posts suggest, I'm really terrible at reading into emotions so I might have to ignore those.
Then Trfel makes his ridiculous case on me using Moosy's and my play, it was that massive 5 point bullet case that he spent a lot of time on.
Then I come out with pushing HTS. Then he comes up with this.
On December 04 2015 08:43 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2015 08:35 The Shining wrote:On December 04 2015 08:20 Trfel wrote:On December 04 2015 08:08 Trfel wrote:
Hrm.
My initial reaction is that this means that less active players / "under the radar" players are mafia.
DoYouHas
The Shining
disformation
Fecalfeast NocturneMage is right, Fidei86 should be added to this list. I really don't know about Half the Sky. It's very hard for me to separate the play from the cold/sickness/whatever. I'll definitely take another look, though. Tempted to lynch one of Half the Sky/NocturneMage and then the other if they flip town, but that seems bad; the scum should be able to be found without having to do that. I'm going to assume for now that NocturneMage is good enough as town that he wouldn't get this wrong, for simplicity's sake, but I'll re-evaluate this assumption when he makes his case. But you think NM/MD slot is scum...NM called your case bad and you had no response to it except to list NM as scum once more, in what would've been your legacy post had you been shot. You left a super wifomy post laying around since you weren't NKd. The fact only Damdred died makes me think there is no Vig but you expected to be Vig shot. Now you're "tempted" to lynch one of HtS and NM. And your had a list of 4 including me when all of those were your town reads/leans. What about the Damdred NK makes your NM read null enough to change your entire tone and scumreads? Was waiting for someone to ask that. Was hoping that no one asked that  I'm town. I'm the most vocal person in the thread (by number of posts, not thread influence). My second strongest scum read is Damdred, who mafia knows is town, and I've been suspicious of him throughout the game. Mafia ought to know that I'm not going to reverse my read on Damdred. So why does mafia shoot Damdred? (first of all, I know that Damdred is a great player, please don't misunderstand; but being a great player doesn't really help you when there's some bull-headed moron who is going to get you lynched or stop town from progressing at all while trying to do so) I looked through Damdred's filter, and I didn't see any scum reads. I checked for scum reads on DoYouHas and Half the Sky, two players who I thought might be particularly inclined to shoot Damdred if they were scum; he basically didn't mention them at all. Thus, the only really noteworthy read in Damdred's filter is his not wanting to lynch NocturneMage (not exactly sure if it was a townread or a not wanting to lynch read, but it's the same for this purpose). If NocturneMage is mafia, there's no way he shoots Damdred here.And the night kill for WIFOM reasons is bad because mafia would have been in an extremely good position with me scumreading Damdred. To be honest, the night kill suggests to me that mafia messed up. Not Damdred's fault at all, my fault, but I really don't think that mafia should kill Damdred. I would be first think of being suspicious of Palmar and Rels, two players who I might have considered for the night kill above Damdred, but I think they would just let me mislynch Damdred or lose the game for town by trying. Perhaps Palmar is an exception, since I don't think he was here when I pushed my case on Damdred, but still, Damdred was strongly townreading Palmar. That's why my tentative conclusion is that mafia is more likely to be in the less active group that I mentioned. The Shining is included in that group partially because Damdred has an extremely good read on The Shining, and so despite Damdred townreading The Shining for now, I can see The Shining as mafia wanting to get rid of Damdred. But the biggest reason for the night kill is probably that Damdred didn't think that NocturneMage is mafia. Which is extremely strong. That combined with me being wrong on Damdred (partially association, partially doubting my read accuracy) makes me think that it's more likely that NocturneMage is town.
TLDR - based on NK analysis I AM LIKELY TOWN
Then a few more posts saying I'm less likely mafia.
Then out of nowhere somewhere he's saying that it's possible I might be bussing HTS.
Rels (and even Fidei!!!!!!) actually considered the town story - that I have extremely solid meta/personality basis on Dani. TRFEL DIDN'T DO THAT (if he did, I truly missed it) from all I read.
Then this.
On December 05 2015 04:39 Trfel wrote:I think that NocturneMage is mafia. He hasn't been really posting for that long, which makes it hard to pin him on long-term mafia motivations. But short-term, it looks like he's playing a momentum style of mafia.
If you don't know what that is, it's how I like play as mafia, because it's the most fun (the term is my own in origin, though others may use it before to mean the same thing, or possibly something else, idk  ). Basically the point is to be pushing people so much (either in force or in number of pushes or both) that everyone's so busy with that that they don't stop to realize that you're mafia. The characteristics of this are clearly shown in NocturneMage's play. - Very confident reads/play
- Lots of posts pushing people
- Few/no townreads, little/no interaction with townreads (the second point doesn't need to be true but often happens)
- (possibly) excessive emotions (especially anger)
- Logical gaps in reads, ignores ways that scumreads could be town
- Portrays themself as a "holy crusade to lynch mafia"
Based on this, the logical/emotional inconsistencies in NocturneMage's play, and the "four people are scum, everyone else doesn't exist" read progression, I think that NocturneMage is mafia. Thoughts?
So I'm mafia because I am playing the way that Trfel is playing as mafia?
Are you shitting me? What the hell progression is that?
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I refute all these posts and particularly the basis for this scumreads based on how I replaced into the game, caught up, towncircled and adjusted reads (and I'm still doing so!!!!), and then he's still on his merry way saying I'm mafia? He uses his own metrics to make these assumptions. I'm on page 8/10 of his filter, he gives two town reads on dyh/ls, and then goes back to just seeing me as public enemy #1.
focusing on absolutely no one else except me and using explanations that don't make me mafia through several points I've refuted him on based on comparison of his play to last game, his approach to me this game, his refusal to see how I process through a town lens, including any reasoning for my change in tone, which I have explained.
he pulled the same shit last game as mafia, stuff that may not be alignment indicative and exclusive scum lens here.
and this all, plus the NKs....
Just kill Trfel.
I know there is mafia #3, I will follow up on James, and I won't ignore a third mafia but just honestly kill Trfel.
Bloody hell.
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evaluating Fidei that is.
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On December 08 2015 04:12 NocturneMage wrote:
evaluating Fidei that is.
And here I thought you were planning on eating him, too.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 08 2015 04:14 disformation wrote:And here I thought you were planning on eating him, too. + Show Spoiler +
We eating Dota players apparantly if he does try to eat James lol....
Anyways I still scratching my head on Palmar's NK. Like I don't a lot of people were townreading him(I was right on him at least). It would implicate someone who knows Palmar or Palmar was right on someone and they panic kill him(prob the later since I think I the only one who really have a lot of experience playing with him.
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On December 08 2015 04:28 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 04:14 disformation wrote:On December 08 2015 04:12 NocturneMage wrote:
evaluating Fidei that is. And here I thought you were planning on eating him, too. + Show Spoiler + We eating Dota players apparantly if he does try to eat James lol.... Anyways I still scratching my head on Palmar's NK. Like I don't a lot of people were townreading him(I was right on him at least). It would implicate someone who knows Palmar or Palmar was right on someone and they panic kill him(prob the later since I think I the only one who really have a lot of experience playing with him.
Don't think Mr. Roboto will taste too good. Too much oil and metal.
Currently eating and looking at his filter.
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On December 08 2015 04:28 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 04:14 disformation wrote:On December 08 2015 04:12 NocturneMage wrote:
evaluating Fidei that is. And here I thought you were planning on eating him, too. + Show Spoiler + We eating Dota players apparantly if he does try to eat James lol.... Anyways I still scratching my head on Palmar's NK. Like I don't a lot of people were townreading him(I was right on him at least). It would implicate someone who knows Palmar or Palmar was right on someone and they panic kill him(prob the later since I think I the only one who really have a lot of experience playing with him.
During the last big dota tournament a group of casters played a lot of in person Mafia. One thing they always did was revert to talking about NKs. But particularly, talking about NKs in generality, with no particular aim in mind.
Nearly home. Will commence operation catch up once dinner is on.
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They being the scum players.
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On December 08 2015 03:46 disformation wrote:NSM12 up to day 2: very similar to this. Starting D2 he starts to show a bit of life in his posts when talking with/to HtS and his scum reads. NSM14 he also sounds very similar to here... well besides this thing: Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 09:05 Fidei86 wrote:On September 08 2015 08:58 MoosyDoosy wrote:
eh. i still think it's copcake + fidei with someone else but i might be getting too tunneled. fidei comes off looking worse from this. BEFORE I GO TO BED I WANT TO POINT OUT IN ALL CAPITALS THAT MOOSY HAS NEITHER OF THE CLAIMED F****** DOCTORS IN HIS F****** SCUM LIST. LIKE IT MIGHT NOT BE EITHER OF THEM? Are you kidding me with this shit? But playing with cupcake can be rather rage inducing. So I understand. But the overwhelming amount of posts sounds like this game. So I guess that is just his default tone and dub him Mr. Roboto. Will look at his filter from this game more closely now.
It wasn't Cake, it was Moosy. I should have lynched that MFer.
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On December 08 2015 04:46 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2015 03:46 disformation wrote:NSM12 up to day 2: very similar to this. Starting D2 he starts to show a bit of life in his posts when talking with/to HtS and his scum reads. NSM14 he also sounds very similar to here... well besides this thing: On September 08 2015 09:05 Fidei86 wrote:On September 08 2015 08:58 MoosyDoosy wrote:
eh. i still think it's copcake + fidei with someone else but i might be getting too tunneled. fidei comes off looking worse from this. BEFORE I GO TO BED I WANT TO POINT OUT IN ALL CAPITALS THAT MOOSY HAS NEITHER OF THE CLAIMED F****** DOCTORS IN HIS F****** SCUM LIST. LIKE IT MIGHT NOT BE EITHER OF THEM? Are you kidding me with this shit? But playing with cupcake can be rather rage inducing. So I understand. But the overwhelming amount of posts sounds like this game. So I guess that is just his default tone and dub him Mr. Roboto. Will look at his filter from this game more closely now. It wasn't Cake, it was Moosy. I should have lynched that MFer.
I often refer to MoosyDoosy as cupcake and/or sweetheart. You know because I really enjoy playing with him.
Will make my use of nicknames for the nicknames of players more distinct in the future.
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EPT
