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Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 17:46 GMT
#951
I think I should have gone harder on OO earlier
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 18:06 GMT
#954
Koshi
GB

marv

TT
FF
SL
scott
Onegu
BF

Sn0
OO

is about where I'm at. The whole middle section is kind of a mess but it's mostly in order.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 18:13 GMT
#957
See GB I understand your frustration on Koshi's weird reads (believe me lol), but his lynch play is really bold if he's mafia. He was pushing against the Vivax lynch really hard (which doesn't make a lot of sense if mafia with TT) and as mafia I think he would be way more self-conscious over doing a 180 and voting with his scumread.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 18:25 GMT
#958
I don't get it on TT. The one post was bad, and I guess he did disappear for a little (not a unique trait to him), but I liked his contributions and they didn't seem fake to me.

Why not OO? He's like the definition of "sounding contributive without actually being contributive".
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 18:32 GMT
#961
Maaaaaaaaaaybe the read switch was too scummy to be scum, but I think that's the kind of thing you look at later when we're trying to find the third mafia (and he looks like he really cares about the game).

On November 28 2015 03:26 GlowingBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2015 03:25 Chromatically wrote:
I don't get it on TT. The one post was bad, and I guess he did disappear for a little (not a unique trait to him), but I liked his contributions and they didn't seem fake to me.

Why not OO? He's like the definition of "sounding contributive without actually being contributive".


Because I want my lynch and TT isn't any better than OO. IMHO.

Fair enough to the bolded, lol.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 19:06 GMT
#966
Just to expand on OO:

On November 26 2015 19:17 ObviousOne wrote:
this feels like the slowest day 1 I've been a part of on this site in ages, if not ever. not for lack of posts but for lack of substance. i thought the wordy derpy phase we had at the start was indicative of a bunch of people who wanted to talk but that doesn't seem to be the case. this has led to an environment where the mafia don't have to post at all to blend in, because so few topics have been discussed. i know obviously i'm a part of this particular problem, but it's also become something of a systemic issue.

koshi who is arguably one of the greater forces in this game has it in his head that people will run his errands, which is fine as a character but is kind of silly to expect anyone to jump however high it is he expects. his effort to assert dominance can have subtle effects on the game. a sort of bystander effect where everyone who wants the same information might end up waiting for another person to do it, therefore nobody does it, and nothing is accomplished. the paradigm that comes along with setting himself up as the tip of the power pyramid which may or may no be in jest, i've played with koshi before and he's had a similar attitude about things. nobody wants or needs to challenge him so the whole thing is hollow anyway. like i said before, plenty of room in the shadows with the rest of us.

the issue with having marv in game is that everyone expects godly-play town or shitty-play mafia, when it's probably a bit of both that he's aiming for. posting less when town and slightly more than he feels comfortable with as mafia is how he gets to balance his play so he's not immediately outed when he's mafia. no idea what his alignment is and really nobody should care what he does until he, you know, does something. more useless conversation around this topic.

Read this rant, and then look through OO's filter, especially after he makes this post, and see how inconsistent it is. This really feels like OO faking emotion to make it seem like he cares about the game. I don't think anyone so obviously uninvested in this game supposedly cares so much about it.

On November 26 2015 11:26 ObviousOne wrote:
brace yourselves

thanksgiving is coming

i guess that's why i got the mail reminding me to vote. anyone looking for sheeple?

On November 26 2015 19:17 ObviousOne wrote:
...

i have preconceptions about vivax that lead me to believe he is capable of much more but is phoning it in this game. i had the same feeling before in student mafia xv and he was town there, so it might be melding the town and mafia sides of his play or that might just be i need to lower my expectations considerably. the difference between marv and vivax is that i don't have any personal heuristics on how to read vivax whatsoever. fuck, in that student game he pretty much blew off all my questions and i was kinda miffed about the whole thing.

tictock still in my talent pool for today's lynch but not feeling it as strongly as others are, haven't really reviewed his recent posts but he's out of the top of the list for now

sn0 could be added to it i think, but that's a reflection of my thoughts regarding how things seem to usually go down when marv is in a game. i sort of like the idea he had to avoid starting a conflict with SL in favor of seeing tictock's response to his wagon. ugh but the smurf stuff and the marv stuff. icky mess.

boxer situation is hilarious but not gonna take him off my candidate list for today.

fefe hasn't hit his stride yet or is mafia, don't know which.

as for scott, for some reason i have it in my mind that he just rarely actually participates (at least in games we're been in together, pretty sure he's been modkilled in one of them), and that's been when he was town. so i can't judge him based on his participation / engagement. can reflect on him if we find out for sure tictock's or maybe even GB's alignment.

feeling less good about SL but there seems to be the feeling of progression in his filter and i owe him a HJ for saving my life last game.

honestly i should just delete this instead of posting it but whatever

strongest to weakest feels regarding likelihood of mafianess
{boxer onegu} strongerest
{sn0 SL fefe} less stronk
{tictock scott vivax} middling
{everyone else}

oh look a pyramid scheme koshi wouldn't want to be at the top of, lel

i'm not locked into this vote but i better vote so i don't get rekt
between onegu and boxer i'm gonna go with the 'gu bc boxer made a funny

#vote: onegu

I could just be reading into this too much, but I thought it was really weird how he comes back to the thread with a nonchalant attitude, asking people who he should sheep. Then, in the next post is a giant list with a bunch of back-and-forth reads, ending with a vote on Onegu (?). Those are two different mindsets ("hey I'll sheep someone" vs "look at me I'm trying"), which I think makes more sense from mafia who wanted to act like they were contributing but forgot that it was inconsistent with their attitude. (you can ignore this if you think it's stretching, it was just something I felt)


I think this is the most important point:
He votes Onegu out of nowhere and then peaces out for a while. Then, when he comes back and it's clear that Onegu isn't happening (the votes were 4 Vivax - 2 TicTock, no one talking about Onegu), he doesn't consolidate or take a stance on the lynch at all like he claimed he would in the above post. Actually, he never actually takes a stance on the lynch of Vivax vs TicTock, even when it's really clear that those are the wagons. This shows him being really disconnected from the thread, just popping in to make a "contribution" when needed.

Other stuff:
He's very interested in posting whenever people express suspicion of him (happens both with me and with FF).

I don't think the points I had against him earlier were weak either (jumped on the rolehunting comment and had a bad explanation for it, overreacted to suspicion).
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 19:32 GMT
#967
Don't really want to do a big thing on Sn0 right now but I'll say that he's kind of just floating by. He comes in and posts/comments on things, but never takes a stance on anything or draws conclusions from what he's doing. There's a lot of asking people questions, but never taking anything from those questions.

On November 27 2015 04:06 Sn0_Man wrote:
It's an interesting point that like 75% of chromatically's filter is blasting everything OO says but he doesn't really try to get anybody to vote for OO at all, he's just trying to justify his safe little vote.

Even when moving to vivax he keeps blasting OO without any attempt to actually get him lynched

Like he'll post stuff like this (implying that he thinks I'm mafia), but never mentions me or this read again.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 19:51 GMT
#971
On November 28 2015 04:34 Sn0_Man wrote:
im around n reading but its night n stuff

that post was of course when koshi was discussing u and i was putting in my thoughts. there was never a point where a lynch on u was viable and even had their been I preferred the tictock lynch at that point.

Okay, fair enough on that specifically. It's more of the general point that there's a lot of commenting on things without following through or taking stances.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 20:07 GMT
#974
On November 28 2015 04:44 ObviousOne wrote:
IF I was maf it would have been easy as fuck to declare I had a scum read on Vivax or even just sheep someone else's case on him and vote for him and not be in this situation at all, but from my list of potential day one lynches vivax was two levels below my preferred lynches and I already said I don't have the first clue on how to read him. why would I bother to either point out I have no idea how to read him if there was a chance he could be lynched that I could have some credibility to join if i had not said that? town lynches that are easy to jump on or to be "convinced" of joining are my jam if i'm mafia.

nor would i vote for ticktock on a day one in this game either based on his recovery before going to bed two nights ago, but i still haven't given the game a proper re-read to see if he's someone that deserves to be up for a day two lynch or not, that's something I'll look into later.

so with the information i had to wit and the list of people i would be willing to lynch how could i possibly vote for either of them if i had zero confidence in one of them being mafia? in my mind onegu was a better candidate because it's possible there might never be anything there to read until it's too late to deal with it.

finally, calling my reactions overreactions is subjective compared to other people and if you want to see how they are not overreactions you'll want to look at maybe one or two of my previous town games and how i react to suspicion, since i can't necessarily trust anyone here to factually report on that, nor would i expect anyone to defend me at this stage considering how well i always fit in a mafia line up all the time.

You can't argue that it was correct for you to vote Onegu there as town. You're an experienced player, so you know that voting on-wagon is always correct (especially since it didn't seem like you had strong opinions on either of them).

It's true that you could have picked a wagon to sheep, but you just as easily could have not cared about the lynch and wasted your vote somewhere else.

Trying not to do meta after last game, but maybe the overreaction thing is subjective.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 21:46 GMT
#1017
On November 28 2015 06:18 GlowingBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2015 04:06 Chromatically wrote:
Just to expand on OO:

On November 26 2015 19:17 ObviousOne wrote:
this feels like the slowest day 1 I've been a part of on this site in ages, if not ever. not for lack of posts but for lack of substance. i thought the wordy derpy phase we had at the start was indicative of a bunch of people who wanted to talk but that doesn't seem to be the case. this has led to an environment where the mafia don't have to post at all to blend in, because so few topics have been discussed. i know obviously i'm a part of this particular problem, but it's also become something of a systemic issue.

koshi who is arguably one of the greater forces in this game has it in his head that people will run his errands, which is fine as a character but is kind of silly to expect anyone to jump however high it is he expects. his effort to assert dominance can have subtle effects on the game. a sort of bystander effect where everyone who wants the same information might end up waiting for another person to do it, therefore nobody does it, and nothing is accomplished. the paradigm that comes along with setting himself up as the tip of the power pyramid which may or may no be in jest, i've played with koshi before and he's had a similar attitude about things. nobody wants or needs to challenge him so the whole thing is hollow anyway. like i said before, plenty of room in the shadows with the rest of us.

the issue with having marv in game is that everyone expects godly-play town or shitty-play mafia, when it's probably a bit of both that he's aiming for. posting less when town and slightly more than he feels comfortable with as mafia is how he gets to balance his play so he's not immediately outed when he's mafia. no idea what his alignment is and really nobody should care what he does until he, you know, does something. more useless conversation around this topic.

Read this rant, and then look through OO's filter, especially after he makes this post, and see how inconsistent it is. This really feels like OO faking emotion to make it seem like he cares about the game. I don't think anyone so obviously uninvested in this game supposedly cares so much about it.

On November 26 2015 11:26 ObviousOne wrote:
brace yourselves

thanksgiving is coming

i guess that's why i got the mail reminding me to vote. anyone looking for sheeple?

On November 26 2015 19:17 ObviousOne wrote:
...

i have preconceptions about vivax that lead me to believe he is capable of much more but is phoning it in this game. i had the same feeling before in student mafia xv and he was town there, so it might be melding the town and mafia sides of his play or that might just be i need to lower my expectations considerably. the difference between marv and vivax is that i don't have any personal heuristics on how to read vivax whatsoever. fuck, in that student game he pretty much blew off all my questions and i was kinda miffed about the whole thing.

tictock still in my talent pool for today's lynch but not feeling it as strongly as others are, haven't really reviewed his recent posts but he's out of the top of the list for now

sn0 could be added to it i think, but that's a reflection of my thoughts regarding how things seem to usually go down when marv is in a game. i sort of like the idea he had to avoid starting a conflict with SL in favor of seeing tictock's response to his wagon. ugh but the smurf stuff and the marv stuff. icky mess.

boxer situation is hilarious but not gonna take him off my candidate list for today.

fefe hasn't hit his stride yet or is mafia, don't know which.

as for scott, for some reason i have it in my mind that he just rarely actually participates (at least in games we're been in together, pretty sure he's been modkilled in one of them), and that's been when he was town. so i can't judge him based on his participation / engagement. can reflect on him if we find out for sure tictock's or maybe even GB's alignment.

feeling less good about SL but there seems to be the feeling of progression in his filter and i owe him a HJ for saving my life last game.

honestly i should just delete this instead of posting it but whatever

strongest to weakest feels regarding likelihood of mafianess
{boxer onegu} strongerest
{sn0 SL fefe} less stronk
{tictock scott vivax} middling
{everyone else}

oh look a pyramid scheme koshi wouldn't want to be at the top of, lel

i'm not locked into this vote but i better vote so i don't get rekt
between onegu and boxer i'm gonna go with the 'gu bc boxer made a funny

#vote: onegu

I could just be reading into this too much, but I thought it was really weird how he comes back to the thread with a nonchalant attitude, asking people who he should sheep. Then, in the next post is a giant list with a bunch of back-and-forth reads, ending with a vote on Onegu (?). Those are two different mindsets ("hey I'll sheep someone" vs "look at me I'm trying"), which I think makes more sense from mafia who wanted to act like they were contributing but forgot that it was inconsistent with their attitude. (you can ignore this if you think it's stretching, it was just something I felt)


I think this is the most important point:
He votes Onegu out of nowhere and then peaces out for a while. Then, when he comes back and it's clear that Onegu isn't happening (the votes were 4 Vivax - 2 TicTock, no one talking about Onegu), he doesn't consolidate or take a stance on the lynch at all like he claimed he would in the above post. Actually, he never actually takes a stance on the lynch of Vivax vs TicTock, even when it's really clear that those are the wagons. This shows him being really disconnected from the thread, just popping in to make a "contribution" when needed.

Other stuff:
He's very interested in posting whenever people express suspicion of him (happens both with me and with FF).

I don't think the points I had against him earlier were weak either (jumped on the rolehunting comment and had a bad explanation for it, overreacted to suspicion).


Chrome, I agree with most of things you say about OO.

If I lynch him would you give me my lynch?

I mean, I'd like to buy your vote like this, but I can't really make promises about lynching someone tomorrow. I can say that I'll seriously consider the points you have though (as usual).
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 22:01 GMT
#1021
lol Vivax
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 22:11 GMT
#1028
Oh wow, that's pretty spooky
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 22:43 GMT
#1040
I would pretend blast Onegu because I think vigi shots should be used on lurkers and he's the one out of him/scott/BF that doesn't have a plausible reason for his activity (RL excuses make me feel bad too). If I was yoloing a hero shot it would be on OO, but he's a better lynch than shot.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 22:44 GMT
#1041
Speaking of which, I'll get things started

##Vote: ObviousOne
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 27 2015 22:45 GMT
#1042
On November 28 2015 07:42 sicklucker wrote:
Ah i wanna be a ghost. shut uo ff its so obvious that Vengeful spirits are people who got lynched (vivax) and Benevolent ghosts is marv.

So vengefuls are lynched and benevolent are nked an who knows what mafia will be

probably true
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 28 2015 19:07 GMT
#1097
On November 29 2015 00:55 Tictock wrote:
After going through his filter, I'm starting to think Chrom is town.

Most of his filter is related to pushing OO, but he makes some solid points like enough that I might have to reconsider my read on OO. A few things feel nit picky though, and this post give me some odd feels.

Show nested quote +
On November 25 2015 13:10 Chromatically wrote:
On November 25 2015 12:54 ObviousOne wrote:
On November 25 2015 12:44 Chromatically wrote:
On November 25 2015 12:41 ObviousOne wrote:
On November 25 2015 12:37 Chromatically wrote:
On November 25 2015 11:30 GlowingBear wrote:
Cool, some weak early reads:

Koshi looks townie for his tone. Especially when he makes the post of the town pyramid and the following one.

Chrom looks townie for thinking critically about the game.

SL looks scummy for this hard push on FF on a matter that isn't really alignment indicative.

Tictock looks scummy for commenting that SL may have a point but concluding that FF's thing isn't alignment indicative. If SL does have a point then it is alignment indicative. If it isn't alignment indicative, SL doesn't have a point. Therefore you just look you're posting to look contributive while actually being fluffy and pushing the matter nowhere

sicklucker I'm not sure about. I agree he could be mafia for his push over something which I agree wasn't alignment indicative, but I liked that he didn't back down about it when he came under pressure.

Ticktock I agree with your point, plus he just kind of came in and posted those non-opinions on FF and then peaced out.

Koshi I don't have a read on.


Let me expand on what I mean about OO:
On November 25 2015 07:58 ObviousOne wrote:
On November 25 2015 07:57 sicklucker wrote:
And yes i am role hunting

explain

On November 25 2015 08:07 ObviousOne wrote:
how can you be rolehunting when the op says everyone is vanilla?

On November 25 2015 08:10 ObviousOne wrote:
tbh it looks to me like you either a) lied about rolehunting when you meant smurfhunting and then stuck to your lie for whatever reason or b) didn't read the setup or c) you're mafia and just hinted at the hidden mechanic

sicklucker posts his stuff about FF's claim being weird and also makes a comment about rolehunting. OO jumps on the "rolehunting" part of it, which is the part that looks weird and is easy to jump on as mafia (I was interested in his read on FF from it). The third post is the one I particularly didn't like. The whole post says nothing at all (no conclusion or any point for the post), it seems like it's just a poor attempt to explain why he jumped on the rolehunting comment when it clearly didn't mean much.

he admitted to ignoring the setup completely

mystery solved m80

Wouldn't he do that no matter his alignment? I don't see how that's relevant to what I'm saying.

tbh i don't see how because it was easy that i shouldnt have commented on it, it was literally the first event in the game worth talking about and i wanted to see if he was slipping up as mafia or something. ignorance was the simplest explanation and also his claimed excuse.

the reason that it didnt have a conclusion was pretty obviously stating my thoughts in the thread, i thought people might like to see that. i'll try to do less thinking since it offends you so.

You just said that you think SL is mafia for his push on FF, so why jump on the rolehunting thing that doesn't matter when you clearly have an opinion on his read on FF? Like if ignorance is the simplest explanation then why would you pick that to comment on over something you supposedly think is actually mafia..?

This reaction seems super overblown to me.


First the rolehunting thing happened before (though not by much) the FF smurf thing got brought up, so it's only natural for OO to react to that first. I'm also not sure why you wouldn't comment on something you felt was off even if it has an easy explanation, so that point doesn't make sense to me either.

Post kinda feels like it's beating a dead horse.

Maybe it feels off to me since I get why OO might push SL for saying he was rolehunting. I also kinda feel like reacting to SL saying he was rolehunting is more of a town thing to do, since Scum are more likely to be aware that there are no roles for them to play around in this game.

...

SL made a comment about FF's smurf at the same time he said the rolehunting thing. It's that OO tried to attack that but didn't make a comment his FF read that is more alignment indicative (compared to what I thought when I saw it, "rolehunting comment is probably NAI but I want to know about his read"). Mafia are more likely to jump on things that look weird but aren't actually alignment-indicative.

At this point it probably is beating a dead horse given that it happened so long ago, though.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 28 2015 19:12 GMT
#1098
On November 29 2015 00:55 Tictock wrote:
@Chrom

Can you elaborate on your GB townread for me?

Why does he push you so hard yesterday for the lynch if it was two town (also doesn't make sense if he's mafia with you)? Plus he cares about the game, is putting reads out there a lot and pushing them, etc.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 28 2015 19:13 GMT
#1099
I'd be interested to hear what stuff you have about his read progression though.
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 28 2015 19:22 GMT
#1100
On November 29 2015 02:41 Koshi wrote:
ANickelDrink

This person might be mafia. Isn't doing that much and COULND'T CARE LESS about who got lynched. When he said he voted because "shenannies could happen" IT WAS 100% OBVIOUS it would not happen.

If TT is town like he claims. He should look at this person instead of giving fefe a freaking free pass as top town.

I didn't like his vote at all either but I thought the rest of his posting's been pretty town (giving reads and looked like he was figuring out the game).

I can take another look I guess? but I can't see how he's a better lynch than OO/Sn0 (or even a lurker).
Chromatically
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1700 Posts
November 28 2015 19:44 GMT
#1101
Yeah I think FF is town tbh. We should lynch OO and Sn0.

I'll let him defend himself against your points though.
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