[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31

On November 02 2015 09:06 Xatalos wrote:
kita, did you get anything out of our furious exchange just now?

On November 02 2015 15:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
kitaman: Do you argee or disgree with the statement that if i am town the best play would be to reject the first three teams regardless of the first three player's alignments?

On November 02 2015 17:29 Rels wrote:

Weird that it took kita 1 hour to answer this question, which was asked to him only a few minutes after his opening post.

On November 02 2015 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
kitaman because he is talking about setup which is a big no-no in this game unless you are scum and want to give advice to your teammates, like "this is something i would not recommend to do".

On November 02 2015 23:44 Half the Sky wrote:
I know you don't/can't play often, but I still have a decent memory of what to expect from a town Kita...and right now I'm not seeing a town Kita.

On November 02 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd expect a spy to push something along the lines of "kita isn't contributing what I would expect from his town play", rather than trying to paint me in a bad light from the start.

On November 02 2015 19:06 Rels wrote:

No no no. Finish explaining yourself

On November 02 2015 23:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

The problem is that is actually bad advice.

On November 02 2015 20:41 Superbia wrote:
2. It downplays scum.

2 is super weird from a town perspective, and leans me more towards mafia. Regardless I feel like commenting on how "weak" mafia is is mafia indicative as it sets up for a lax game.

On November 02 2015 20:41 Superbia wrote:
I feel like if you were town and believed this you would've focused on the strength of town, rather than the weakness of mafia, and as a result, would've said something along the lines of "mafia gonna get #rekt #noqt" (or something less trolly)

On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.

On November 02 2015 20:41 Superbia wrote:
Xat&rest- Xat's initial post set me off. Saying something like "this is a nightmare for scum" has two results (from writer POV):
1. It distances you from "scum".
2. It downplays scum.

1. Is NAI. 2 is super weird from a town perspective, and leans me more towards mafia. I feel like if you were town and believed this you would've focused on the strength of town, rather than the weakness of mafia, and as a result, would've said something along the lines of "mafia gonna get #rekt #noqt" (or something less trolly). Regardless I feel like commenting on how "weak" mafia is is mafia indicative as it sets up for a lax game.

Now I already had a very real suspicion that you knew that this set up is not a "nightmare" for scum, as you have played resistance(/avalon) before (noted by you correctly associating my merlin comment with avalon). So that double begs the question why you felt the need to point out that mafia was "weak".

I also understand that there is no resolving this situation regardless of your alignment. We can't talk this shit out- since it my suspicion and your possibly-innocent post. I am going, however, going to be suspicious of you. Unfairly? Maybe. But we'll see how your day plays out. So far I don't really like how you've been soft-pushing my push on you. But that may be biased of me.

On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, HTS/rayn/Xata could work... HTS has seemed pretty focused on solving the game

On November 03 2015 01:08 kitaman27 wrote:


How do you differentiate HTS solving the game as town from HTS setting herself up as a likely nomination as spy by bringing along active players? Were there certain posts that you can point me to that suggest she is analyzing things from only a town perspective?

On November 03 2015 01:20 JudgeJudy wrote:


For the record, I'm in favor of nominating Me, Myself & Irene.

On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:
not knowing what teams are going to pass makes this doubly difficult.

On November 03 2015 01:55 ShoCkeyy wrote:


That's fine, I'm not pushing to be on the team, I don't need to. I already know that what ever team I'm on, there is a 33% chance of it succeeding.

On November 03 2015 01:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I skimmed through the thread. I'll check it out.

On November 03 2015 01:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I actually think shockeyy is kinda scummy for trying to nail rels on changing his reads. Town changes their reads a lot more than scum does and is less careful in general.

On November 03 2015 02:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Since when do clear swaps in opinion make someone more likely scum than town?

On November 03 2015 03:12 Xatalos wrote:
Still a pretty... unimpactful? push or whatever it was

On November 03 2015 01:52 ShoCkeyy wrote:


Not trying to nail anything, I'm just questioning his stance on rayn. If you read the thread you would of seen that Rels was actively going after rayn in the beginning, to be able to do a 180 and call him town in a few hours is quite interesting to me.

On November 03 2015 04:10 ShoCkeyy wrote:


Not really, but it seems like a lot of people dropped off after this.

On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote:
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.

On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote:
rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.

On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote:
Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.

On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too

On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:
Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay.

On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote:
Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.

On November 03 2015 05:31 JudgeJudy wrote:




Initially I found this post a bit scummy. You acknowledge Xata's point that rayn can display similar behavior as both mafia and town, yet you still choose to conclude mafia while stating that you haven't played with him as town. If you are making a meta read, yet don't put in effort to understand the town meta, then you're relying on a single data point, rather than a trend.

Otherwise, I don't see a ton that stands out one way or the other. I can sympathize with not having a ton of strong town reads and not wanting to come to conclusions about posts that really don't seem to matter, though it's difficult to come to an opinion on you with only two main talking points so far. Rels stuff seems reasonable, but it would be nice to see you jump in on more topics as time goes on. I'd expect to hopefully see a few more confident reads in the next day or two.

On November 03 2015 05:15 Xatalos wrote:
Well kita, you even quoted the reason for my focus... That finding town in this game might be more useful than finding scum. Of course figuring out the Spies is always useful, but it'll get easier with vote analysis and mission results, whereas here the main goal is to figure out who to send on a mission. At least in IRL Resistance we mostly focused on establishing "clear" or at least semi-clear town.

On November 03 2015 05:09 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Kita what are your thoughts on me so far?

On November 03 2015 00:46 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm feeling better about Xata but not as good as with Super/rayn

On November 03 2015 02:43 Half the Sky wrote:
Read Xata. Could swap Superbia out for him. I'll sit on this.

Current: raynpelikoneet/Superbia/myself

1st alt: Xata/rayn/myself

On November 03 2015 03:17 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm putting in my alternative. I'll evaluate when I'm sorted at home.

##nominate: Xatalos, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky

On November 03 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote:
##nominate: kitaman27, raynpelikoneet, Half the Sky

Still on my way home everyone.

On November 03 2015 06:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Not really, I'm kinda looking to be engaged in conversation to actually get the ball rolling and get into the game.

On November 03 2015 07:24 Half the Sky wrote:
Fair enough.

On November 03 2015 07:55 Xatalos wrote:
Besides, some semi-good posts don't really override the way he ignored what was going on and posted random filler throughout the day >.>

On November 03 2015 07:55 Xatalos wrote:
Besides, some semi-good posts don't really override the way he ignored what was going on and posted random filler throughout the day >.>

But oh well... If this is to happen, then so be it. It's not like it's the final team yet.

On November 03 2015 08:56 Xatalos wrote:
He was also constantly engaged with the thread... Not really sure how it's comparable to you.

On November 03 2015 15:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
if you are scum

On November 03 2015 15:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So basically, if you are scum here

On November 03 2015 15:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Isn't it a bit hypocritical to entertain a scenario where Xatalos is not town - or cast doubt on him - for "not giving reads" when you yourself haven't really given any reads?

On November 03 2015 19:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis let's do the play of 2015 and win the game by nominating all scum team on mission 1.

On November 03 2015 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) If there are three scum, and the plan goes through, we autowin the game.
2) That is not going to happen because kitaman will refuse to follow up with that if there is three scum
3) When kitaman refuses to the plan, he actually has to explain why one of Rels/ShoCkeyy is mafia
4) When kitaman says "no" to the plan, i am going to ask Rels about his read on kitaman, and where does he base that on -- in contrary to the read on you (the "Xatalos does not have scumreads" part -- i will explain that further then)

5) And then all of this doesn't matter, except for we get scum talking about each other and not give bullshit reads

6) And the plan will still be town-favored if there is even 2 scum in that group of three (which i am 95% sure of, unless i am playing horribly in this game).

On November 03 2015 23:09 Xatalos wrote:
But rayn gave good reasons for proposing the full-scum (2/3 scum) team - lots of pressure on the whole team - and there are additional reasons having to do with miscommunications within the scumteam and such, so it might be better to propose that next.

On November 04 2015 02:24 Half the Sky wrote:
I just know that in RL resistance as a spy I have passed the first mission and then failed later missions - my question to rayn is how is he going to get around this possibility regardless of who/what his reads/team recs are? I read the post where he discusses Kita/Rels/Shockey and I'm not clear on the failsafe there. Am I missing something? Or was it more apparent in another post?

On November 03 2015 23:08 ShoCkeyy wrote:


Tell me where I directly called you scum.. This is the third time I've asked you to.

On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through.

On November 02 2015 23:23 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission.

On November 03 2015 22:36 ShoCkeyy wrote:
rayn the whole game has tried to look like an angry town player, cause he's obviously getting angry at my assumptions, not even real accusations. He can't even find the time to go through my meta and see how I play, yet I went through his. He also can't find the time to really interact with me

On November 03 2015 08:56 Xatalos wrote:
He was also constantly engaged with the thread... Not really sure how it's comparable to you.

On November 02 2015 20:43 Superbia wrote:
I usually start off with lots of big town-reads, not sure where the rest of town is this game lol.

On November 02 2015 20:41 Superbia wrote:
Xat's initial post set me off. Saying something like "this is a nightmare for scum" has two results
1. It distances you from "scum".
2. It downplays scum.

1. Is NAI. 2 is super weird from a town perspective, and leans me more towards mafia. I feel like if you were town and believed this you would've focused on the strength of town, rather than the weakness of mafia, and as a result, would've said something along the lines of "mafia gonna get #rekt #noqt" (or something less trolly). Regardless I feel like commenting on how "weak" mafia is is mafia indicative as it sets up for a lax game.

Now I already had a very real suspicion that you knew that this set up is not a "nightmare" for scum, as you have played resistance(/avalon) before (noted by you correctly associating my merlin comment with avalon). So that double begs the question why you felt the need to point out that mafia was "weak".

On May 19 2015 05:36 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I didn't ignore it and I never said GB was mafia directly, nor do I think he's mafia yet after throwing posts at him to see his argument style which I didn't much see in the Palmar posts due to reasons. I do however keep him under my list and already have mentioned my claim.

On November 03 2015 23:08 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Tell me where I directly called you scum.. This is the third time I've asked you to.

On June 19 2015 05:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:
GB can you stop completely ignoring my questions and stop ignoring the read I asked to do of me? And don't tell me it's because I have a small filter (wtf kind of logic is that). Tell me why I shouldn't vote for you?

On November 03 2015 22:59 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He was ignoring me when I was trying to engage with him. Doesn't make him scum, but it makes the scum meter raise.

On December 15 2010 05:25 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Another thing, notice how d3_crescentia doesn't name Amber[Light] in his post ... But then I throw Amber[Light]'s name into my post and now Amber[Light] is ALSO voting for me. You guys are obvious enough that you both are teaming up against people trying to save the town. Obvious Scums are Obvious.

On May 19 2015 06:36 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I just like the fact that I call three people out today and I'm getting ganged up on like in the beginning with they ganged up on damdred. If it doesn't smell like obvious mafia players, then Idk what is obvious.

On November 03 2015 00:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
However in this game, that buddying up can also be assumed to knowing they're both spies. The other reason I came up to that is how they both question Rels together. Rels and rayn first started off and then Xata jumped in afterwards.

On February 24 2010 11:41 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm waiting till the next day to post all of my analysis of people. I've learned from the last game to just sit back and watch.

On November 03 2015 00:43 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Mostly everyone is still null for me. The first team still hasn't even gone out yet.

1. Half the Sky
2. Xatalos
3. Artanis[Xp]
4. raynpelikoneet
5. ShoCkeyy

On November 04 2015 05:40 Xatalos wrote:
I don't really follow the read on me, kita. I didn't say that Superbia was constantly ACTIVE, but that he was constantly engaged WHEN he was active. He immediately engaged me when I came to the thread, and interacted actively later on when he returned to the thread... Whereas you felt kind of distant / avoiding direct engagement. Well, I'm not really sure about him at the moment, but you're misrepresenting my read on him there.

On November 02 2015 20:43 Superbia wrote:
Oh yeah, I also kind of didn't like Kita's big 2nd post- felt kind of forced. But not even near sure yet.

On November 04 2015 06:35 JudgeJudy wrote:






Why would you say this doesn't apply to Xatalos? He was the one that was rather insistent to be included in place of super on day one. He didn't go as far as attacking super directly, but he brought up reasons why he shouldn't be considered 100% town and definitely suggested that he should be included on multiple occasions.

On November 04 2015 06:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Uh, I think you're missing something here Kita.

On November 04 2015 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Rels do you think i am scum?
Also what are the situations where you do not pick yourself into the team as a leader?

On November 03 2015 18:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am actually quite sure Artanis/SL are both town.

On November 04 2015 06:41 kitaman27 wrote:




Could you explain these reads more?

Also, do you have any thoughts now that I shared the reads you asked for?

On November 04 2015 06:42 Xatalos wrote:
Not really much to say about your other reads since they're pretty... vague? (kita) Nothing else at least really caught my attention.

On November 04 2015 06:53 Xatalos wrote:


Tbh it kinda was... Basically "could go both ways"... Isn't that the ultimate vague read? Tbh the way you made your read indicates that it should mild-strong scumread instead, but... The conclusion is just that.

On November 04 2015 08:52 Superbia wrote:
I'm not caught up at all and won't be for now. I have approx 15m before sleepytimes.

On November 04 2015 09:09 Superbia wrote:
All right. Listen. You do not genuinely discuss your vote before you vote, you do so after. Mafia does not have a QT, they cannot communicate. Part of the game- and part of the play as town- is to keep mafia in the dark as to what the voting is going to be. There are voting trends that can be gained and analyzed if this is kept as it is. I was hoping people would do this.

So please, next time, do not do this. Discuss who you think is mafia during all phases. We discuss our votes after voting is revealed.

On November 04 2015 09:27 ShoCkeyy wrote:


Kitaman, question did you only read my mafia games?

On November 04 2015 13:18 ShoCkeyy wrote:
What? I knew they would be public and I did say any team that went ahead that wasn't xata rayn would be fine by me. I don't get what makes me look bad by voting yes?...

On November 04 2015 06:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:


Could you explain these reads more?

Also, do you have any thoughts now that I shared the reads you asked for?

On November 04 2015 23:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also i will get back to your post kitaman, it will take some time though. I read the thread on my phone last night but i i don't remember much of it.

Woke up just a while ago so i need to eat something first.

On November 04 2015 23:42 Rels wrote:

That is awesome! Thanks for that, that will be useful later. You're probably town for this effort too.

On November 04 2015 23:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

That's incorrect. I was town

On November 05 2015 00:03 Superbia wrote:
Kita read your own filter with me please. You make two posts on me basically pushing scum on me and then conclude I'm leaning town in your list post. How the fuck does this happen?

On November 05 2015 00:52 Superbia wrote:
Nvm about being scared on rayn. This fucking line just solidifies him as town:



I don't even care that I'm in this list, this echoes my thoughts so much (mostly the second list- I would replace myself with sicklucker).

On November 05 2015 01:29 Xatalos wrote:
Overall, would be nice to hear more opinions on the current proposal. From you, from Superbia, and others.

On November 05 2015 01:26 Superbia wrote:


Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way.

Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you)
I'm mostly going off the votes here:
- There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.).
- Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia.
- Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!").
- Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire.
- Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.

So:

If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct:
- Mafia is likely:
Rels, shockey, sicklucker.

If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct:
- Mafia is likely:
Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL.
OR
Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL.

On November 05 2015 01:46 Rels wrote:
I don't understand how you can say "scums are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.)." and put Shockey in your POE list. You then say "Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.", which doesn't explain it. Expand please ?

On November 05 2015 01:53 Rels wrote:

Wait a minute. So your scum team is Superbia / Shockey / SL, since you're townreading everybody else.
Can you tell me why would HTS would follow the town sentiment to the point of considering putting herself out of her own team, in the first draft of the first mission ? Especially since, like she said, she didn't have much time to properly think.

On November 05 2015 02:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:

The difference is i am not calling Xatalos scum and i am calling you scum.

On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes, again, technically you are absolutely correct here. I created a narrative and called you scum for it. Well to be exact i explained to HtS why your play doesn't make you town, but yes, i found out your play to be more likely to come from scum. But in my opinion i have good reasons to think the narrative i was entertaining is the right one.

On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
sicklucker and Artanis - i disagree on the null read. I have explained why.

On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I kinda understand the read on HtS. What gives me pause on HtS is the fact that he last-second swapped Xatalos to you. Now i don't think you are both mafia with HtS. The problem is why does he swap?

On November 02 2015 21:10 Half the Sky wrote:
Will almost certainly be leaving Kita off.

On November 02 2015 23:44 Half the Sky wrote:
and right now I'm not seeing a town Kita.

On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:
Kita was more scummy than Rels

On November 03 2015 01:26 Half the Sky wrote:
there's no way I'm ever putting Kita on at this moment

On November 03 2015 01:50 Half the Sky wrote:
Going to be blunt, that's not happening, Kita is definitely not happening right now

On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am really conflicted with your reads on Rels and Xatalos. The first thing that raises my eyebrows is the fact that you read other people based on motivation, but there is zero analysis of motivation regarding Xatalos. The read on Xatalos is actually based on something you think is scummy in what he has said. The fact is, if you read Rels' posts in this light, there is literally way way way more things that are just plain out fucking scummy.

On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why does he give out a townread on him based on "shit reasons" when he has scumread Superbia before? It doesn't make any sense, especially if the reasoning is -- as you claim -- made up, and he doesn't genuinely think so. I also think the read on you at the time was not scummy at all, because i felt the exact same way about you back then.

On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- Why do you think his read (reasoning/changes on it) on me throughout the game is not scummy?

On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- Why do you think his townread on ShoCkeyy was not scummy? It was literally based on the worst, and the most scummy post in this thread.

[B]On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like... you have to admit there is a chance you are wrong on Xatalos. I don't find your case good. I admit i COULD be wrong on Xatalos, i am just really fucking sure of my read, more sure than anything else in this game. I also admit i am not sure if you are mafia or town, because historically i am not that good in reading you and i kinda end up thinking you are scum in any game we are in.

On November 05 2015 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
She thinks both you and kita are town but she picks the person that is least likely to get yay-voted in the team.
It makes very little sense.

On November 05 2015 03:34 Xatalos wrote:
What do you mean that I didn't have any real reads and that my explanation wasn't "genuine"? At the time, I think you just said "I guess we have different views on the word 'engaged' then" or something....

On November 05 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:

If HtS is mafia it comes down to this:

On November 05 2015 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't have much to say to your big post kita. I just disagree.
I suggest you go read Rels' scumgames to see what he is capable of:
Season of the Witch II[/ur]
Battle of Drams

Basically the cases he makes look "good" but they are boring. lol, i can't explain that better.
Like here Superbia and to some extent HtS are like furious and spit flames everywhere (like BM in SotW game) when getting into argument with Rels. Rels is just.. boring, and the reasoning is boring. And he makes conclusions that don't make any sense, at all.

On November 05 2015 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:

No it isnt. It is another instance where i elaborate to "this action has no scum motive" with "here is the scum motive".

i dont like when i am asked about something - or been given non-logical arguments - and answer them, people turn them around and say something irrelevant instead of agreeing/disagreeing with what i ACTUALLY say...

On November 05 2015 03:23 kitaman27 wrote:
From a spy HTS position, I think her priority would be to get a team that passes. The suggestion that it would be easier to blame a failed mission on myself than xatalos seems less important than finding a team that passes so you can ensure that there isn't a mission 1-2-3 combo. In my opinion, HTS-Xat-rayn seemed more likely to pass at the time.

On November 05 2015 02:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work.

On November 05 2015 04:53 Xatalos wrote:
Not all. I did scumread you, for example, and shockeyy/Rels were pushing into scum territory.

On November 05 2015 04:53 Xatalos wrote:
I did admit that Superbia wasn't as engaged back then as I had thought earlier, and that most of his posts being directed at me may have blinded me a bit. Besides I was mostly talking about the quantity of his engagement, not how many people it was directed to.

On November 05 2015 04:53 Xatalos wrote:
If you looked at my meta, you'd see that I'm pretty clearly town already. What you've brought is pretty much either misrepresented or not indicative of anything, such as me being wrong on some small detail...

On November 05 2015 05:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:


The reason I passed it was because if a sabotage happened on the first mission, then that can just fuel the suspicion even more and more people would start to see what I'm talking about. Also, Idc if people scum read me, I've been playing TL Mafia since the mafia forums first opened ;p

On November 05 2015 07:17 Rels wrote:
This game: 11 pages in almost a phase

OK I think it's pretty clear. p:

On November 05 2015 07:32 Rels wrote:

Man everything you say sounds sooooo scientific. I think you do stats for a living right ?

On November 05 2015 07:57 Rels wrote:

What ?

On November 05 2015 08:22 Half the Sky wrote:


Kita, what game do you mean?

On November 05 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:
Aiming for until 12:30am or so... (another 45m) so if anyone wants to talk, please do.

On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote:
super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team

On November 05 2015 09:08 sicklucker wrote:
oh i liked the xatalos filter thing. i think we should pass this its very likely 3 towns from my pov

On November 05 2015 09:40 sicklucker wrote:


WHY would scum want a all town team to pass?

On November 05 2015 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Again drunk. ..
Kita if you are town youre so bad.

On October 03 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
wtf kitaman? are you fucking dumb?

On March 31 2014 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
For someone who is supposed to be good at this game you say a lot of stupid stuff kita.

On April 04 2014 09:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
we can kill kita because he is either mafia or terrible and should not be allowed to play because of badness.
kthxbye

On November 05 2015 18:36 sicklucker wrote:
when i said the team is all town i ment me/rayn/artanis there..

On November 05 2015 08:03 Superbia wrote:
This one is probably going to get rejected straight out bc there's a good chance SL will just continue to lurk. =/ Artanis would've gotten some votes.

On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote:
super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team

On November 06 2015 01:33 JudgeJudy wrote:


When was there ever a HTS/Xata/Kita line up for you to vote for? I'm confused what you are referencing here.

On November 06 2015 03:21 Xatalos wrote:
Dunno about that bus thing, but isn't it a quite restrictive scum strategy to only approve teams that you're a part of?

On February 22 2012 05:10 kitaman27 wrote:
I sent my nay vote in as well. Doesn't make much sense to me to support a team where I'm not a part of on day one.

On February 22 2012 05:16 kitaman27 wrote:
I don't mind drawing out the voting a while if it gives us the best chance of winning.

On November 06 2015 08:04 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm thinking Artanis should nominate himself, rayn and Xatalos. That is my first impression.

On November 06 2015 01:49 kitaman27 wrote:
So rayn, I'm trying to understand your read on SL.

Your two main points initially were

1) That he would bus as a spy.

+ Show Spoiler +

One of the first things he does was explain that your strongest mafia read shockeyy should never ever be on a mission.

2) That he doesn't have a scum agenda.

+ Show Spoiler +

Essentially his strategy this game is to veto any team that doesn't include himself, attack the players that suspect him, unless his mafia read actually nominates him, then he is fine with passing the team. Why isn't this a mafia agenda?

The explanation that scummy people think SL is spy, therefore he is town doesn't mean a lot considering in the first quote you say how busing isn't out of the question because you only need one spy.

Doesn't the reasoning you gave point to the opposite conclusion?

On November 06 2015 08:17 Half the Sky wrote:
Actually I should be asking Kita this same question. Kita, why?

On November 06 2015 19:33 sicklucker wrote:


then i just dont understand english

On November 07 2015 08:31 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright Artanis if you think that's the case, they cannot communicate through a mafia QT, how would they know whether to pass or fail when there's a partner on the mission? I'm just saying from a likeliness standpoint.

On November 07 2015 08:53 Xatalos wrote:
I guess SL's position on me and the missions is somewhat unnatural. He first scumreads me for not 100% townreading him at first... But he'd still want to go on a mission during my leadership, and even include me on the second mission if the first mission passed.



Not really sure what his read on me was at this point? Still scum? Null? It kind of feels like it's a town lean or something already.

And then when he's included with me and rayn, I'm very likely town...?



Would be very curious to hear about this read progression on me.

On November 07 2015 10:09 sicklucker wrote:


ok i called it an all town team. I was suspicious of super

On November 07 2015 11:06 sicklucker wrote:
I called super scum for calling the xata team would fail.

On November 05 2015 08:09 sicklucker wrote:
super likely mafia. Im positive he has no reason to scum read me he just needs an excuse not to vote the all town team

On November 05 2015 18:36 sicklucker wrote:
when i said the team is all town i ment me/rayn/artanis there..

On November 07 2015 11:35 ShoCkeyy wrote:


Kita thoughts on me after the first mission?

On November 07 2015 22:50 Half the Sky wrote:


Same thing I told Kita. At the time I was TRing Xata/Rayn and sicklucker like I said was 60/40 on him even though I was more sure on you.

On November 08 2015 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:

the thing is if the mission somehow gets sabotaged, people will blame me.
and i will get mad for it. and both of the possible mafia (SL/Xata) don't want the team (excluding me) to go anyways.

I think it is just better play, and i think Rels is not mafia.
You can blame me post game if he is scum.

On November 08 2015 02:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:

No it isn't.
As i said whoever Artanis nominates i am gonna vote yes for (unless he puts both of SL/Xatalos onto the team).
I am just giving my opinion.

Why do you disagree with me wanting to swap myself with Rels, you are townreading him, no?

On November 08 2015 02:12 kitaman27 wrote:


What % sure are you that HTS is scum right now?

On November 08 2015 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am genuinely curious kitaman.
Do you think i am scum? If i am i must be scum with someone on the team right?
Who is that someone?

On November 08 2015 02:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Okay. To be honest i am most confident of Artanis being scum outside the mission 1 and hts/shockeyy.
I really don't think Rels is mafia. Therefore it doesn't matter at all if me - Rels goes onto a mission, and i can't make Artanis swap himself with me right?

On November 09 2015 02:28 sicklucker wrote:
xata if your the town in rayn/you your literally losing town the game thinking the way you do. People like shockey/rels who voted no on a mission that failed are not going to be scum very often. you need to adjust your reads as scum bro

On November 09 2015 03:40 sicklucker wrote:


its the worst attempt i ever ever seen. Like you dont even know your top scum reads. reads? your wrong about like 4 people on that list.

more like town shockey rels hts

scum everyone else but especially you

On November 08 2015 01:47 sicklucker wrote:
i would vote yes for artanis/rayn/rels/super

On November 09 2015 08:24 Xatalos wrote:


Btw why am I missing from this list >.>

Overall, I'd be much more interested to hear your own reads rather than listing others' reads.

On November 09 2015 08:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So yeah, I suggested a team I didn't actually want to see who was going to vote yes on it, gauge responses and all that. I figure after the first mission fails we want to gather some more information anyway. Like Rayn said, there'd be limited information on submitting a team with me/him/Superbia/Kitaman as someone like sicklucker would have an excuse to vote no without really backing it up. Now, we get to hear justifications for things.

On November 09 2015 07:23 Half the Sky wrote:
In a world where Rels is town, does a Xatalos/Artanis/TBD team make sense? Food for thought and for future reference.

On November 04 2015 21:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I townread all three of you and we're going to have to nominate three people that aren't me in all future missions, so why not?

On November 09 2015 07:03 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Now for this next mission coming up, I really don't like the fact that Kita has a ton of mafia leans still while never giving his reads fully. Makes me question him at this point, but then there is Artanis too.

On November 09 2015 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
kitaman what do you want me to pick?

On November 10 2015 02:47 sicklucker wrote:


lurky lurk

On November 10 2015 02:53 Half the Sky wrote:
Kita could you please answer why you think SL's erratic posting is alignment indicative? I asked a question of you sometime back....ehh let me find it.

On November 09 2015 02:28 sicklucker wrote:
xata if your the town in rayn/you your literally losing town the game thinking the way you do. People like shockey/rels who voted no on a mission that failed are not going to be scum very often. you need to adjust your reads as scum bro

On November 10 2015 06:46 Vivax wrote:
I'm vigilant about kita as he's one of the people I can get really paranoid about. I have a history of reading him correctly too so until I get to do that and given that his first posts in the game didn't really scream town to me, I'd prefer to not have him on a mission for now.

I'd be fine with rayn/me/shockey/Rels

On November 10 2015 22:02 Xatalos wrote:
Then again, otherwise this will probably go to SL's decision -> fail..... It's like picking between ebola and AIDS....

On November 10 2015 06:31 Half the Sky wrote:
First "the scum xata wouldn't have the balls" that comes from the fact that sicklucker thought xatalos would give himself away too easily with a team of two players that were more obviously read as town. rayn even said sicklucker was obvious town, and though other players were more doubtful on sicklucker (myself included) from his OWN perspective and especially where sicklucker had a more inflated view of himself as town, this would actually make sense.

If you think about it from sicklucker's perspective it would make sense for town sicklucker to think that a scum xatalos wouldn't have the "balls" to reject a mission and given himself away in a 3-man mission team where the other two were more solidly townread.

On November 10 2015 06:31 Half the Sky wrote:
He also said something else to the effect of "oh wait maybe I can trust xata if he put out a team I wanted or a team with him on it or what have you" - again I don't remember full context without opening a thousand tabs on my phone but that was another point in his favour.

On November 10 2015 06:31 Half the Sky wrote:
From a meta standpoint, (reference Void, Drams) scum sicklucker is concerned about giving away information on his teammates.

On November 09 2015 07:33 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Reason why I say that is because I suggested this team a while back. Not voting yes will look bad on my end anyways

On November 11 2015 00:46 sicklucker wrote:


BECAUSE HE DOESINT GIVE A SHIT

On November 11 2015 01:27 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I just don't care what rayn has to say about me. Big difference. At the end of the game you're all going to feel really shitty when I come out as town and realize rayn was mafia the whole game.

On November 11 2015 08:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You need to understand. .. HtS, that just because i say "fuck you" to you or to anyone, instead of you telling me "you played bad" in a game where i found all scum it does not make me toxic.. ever.. sure you can try, but when i call out your bs take it, or prove me wrong.

It makes you delusional. I say what i think. Just because you are more sensitive with words or as a person what the fuck ever idc. Get your facts straight and dont feed ppl with bs.

On November 12 2015 03:56 Half the Sky wrote:
AT THAT TIME, he mentioned they couldn't possibly stand out as teammates, but both have one major thing in common - the reads on each other were a stretch which is common(ish) when mafia need to discredit each other.

From the first failed mission I am 99.9% Xatalos is the saboteur, and the above plus sicklucker's points on Superbia (prior to the fully afk) lurky game make this combination a bit more likely. Again, let me remind everyone SUPERBIA HAD JACK ALL ON NOMS Day 1.

From a mafia mindset he might not have wanted to give anyone away! Thoughts?

Kita, Kita, Kita, where are you...

On January 22 2014 12:11 kitaman27 wrote:


My fellow players, I present to you the greatest advancement in scum hunting techniques since the Mafia Report Card and the Day Three Mayor Election. I am proud to introduce Mafia Combinatorics!

In an 11 player setup with three mafia members, there are 165 possible mafia team combinations. However, by attempting to only identify a pair of scum buddies, this number can be significantly reduced. By assuming that you are town*, there are three valid pairs in a group of 45 combinations. If you are able to identify two town players with a high degree of confidence, this number is reduced to three in a group of 28 pairings. Rather than attempting to look for a pair of scum buddies, I shall attempt to identify pairs who are not scum buddies. Even if a valid pair is eliminated due to poor reasoning, there are still two other correct combinations, which allows me to make multiple mistakes before I've eliminated all valid solutions. Through process of elimination, I shall use this list to generate a vote that is slightly better than random, but only with your help! I will attempt to include an updated spoilered list in every post with the cominbations that have not been eliminated based on interactions in the thread, lynch flips, night hits, and strong town reads. If you strongly disagree with a combination that has been eliminated or you believe that I should consider removing a pair for various reasons, let me know! Eliminating yourself because you are town is not a valid suggestion. That only works for me because I'm special. The mafia team is now facing a ticking time bomb. Will they manage to kill me before the game is solved? Will I realize this is a terrible idea that is incredibly time inefficient? Will I be ignored because you guys are unable to appreciate the greatness of my plans? Find out!

* Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that this may not be a valid assumption before applying Mafia Combinatorics to a game.

+ Show Spoiler [Potential Mafia Pairs] +

On November 02 2015 17:29 Rels wrote:
Weird that it took kita 1 hour to answer this question, which was asked to him only a few minutes after his opening post.

On November 02 2015 19:17 Rels wrote:
LOL you have 4 different names in the database

On November 03 2015 01:25 Rels wrote:
This. Please comment.

On November 03 2015 01:24 Rels wrote:
Man EVERYBODY was up my ass when I was attacking Superbia; but I do one formal post resuming it, and nobody comments on it.

On November 03 2015 18:29 Rels wrote:
On the other hand, I have no idea why the fuck kitaman would know anything from my scum play. Where did he say that ?

On November 04 2015 01:29 Rels wrote:
Yes of course it's a dumb thing to do. I think you should have not say anything and waited to see what rayn would have done tomorrow though.

On November 04 2015 01:38 Rels wrote:
Shockey, I can't see any scum motivation to play the way he does; having odd reads that completely differs from the thread sentiment, and defending them to the point of getting scumread for it.

On November 05 2015 07:17 Rels wrote:
Xatalos' average filter length per game

Average page / phase as town: 10.19
Average page / phase as mafia: 2.51

---

This game: 11 pages in almost a phase

OK I think it's pretty clear. p:

On November 06 2015 06:44 Rels wrote:
Like I'm thinking about this game all the time, trying to solve it. I just love that feeling of thinking about something new that make sense

On November 06 2015 18:13 Rels wrote:

Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.

If the team pass there are two solutions:
- it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta.
- there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him.
So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial.
If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=

If the team fails:
There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2.
There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.

That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.

On November 12 2015 02:43 Rels wrote:
I'm too lazy to do any reread right now since we could also have won already p:

On November 12 2015 19:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also also I really don't want Kita on any teams after the 'narrowing down' thing he did included both confirming himself as town with no reasoning as well as confirming rels as town for things he can easily do as scum.

On November 12 2015 21:28 sicklucker wrote:
like im so mad at myself for not remember day 1 votes and being sucked into this false world. will you ever forgive me

On November 09 2015 05:24 sicklucker wrote:
your scum so idk why im talking to you anyway its so obvious this game..

On November 13 2015 00:44 sicklucker wrote:
kita like what are you doing in this game seriously. Your not even trying to be town or do any townie thing. you did a useless excercise to give you combinations you could have winged on your own

On November 13 2015 00:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I just don't like the voting patterns. I'm basing my team off voting patterns and obv mission flips.

On November 12 2015 21:31 Rels wrote:

Yeah that's what I think too.
But I can't forget that HTS "thought" Artanis had to pick a team before we knew if the Xatalos' team succeeded; and instead of being like "FUCK IT WE RE WAITING" like everybody else, she was like "OH MAYBE WE SHOULD SEND THE SAME TEAM + 1 BEFORE KNOWING THE TEAM 1 RESULT".