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[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31 - Page 7

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 10:15 GMT
#699
Artanis let's do the play of 2015 and win the game by nominating all scum team on mission 1.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 10:19 GMT
#702
Quite sure.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 10:21 GMT
#705
On November 03 2015 19:19 sicklucker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 19:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis let's do the play of 2015 and win the game by nominating all scum team on mission 1.


is there a point to this other then to brag?

Basically yes, there is.
Artanis knows what i am talking about and knows my thought process here, at least if he is town.

Anyone who talks anything about scum sabotaging/aiding until this thing here is resolved is mafia!!
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 10:24 GMT
#706
On November 03 2015 19:18 Half the Sky wrote:
Rayn how are you so sure Artanis is town?

sorry i misread the question. It basically has to do with me not seeing him playing towards anything.. ugh... idk it is hard to explain, i don't see him having scum agenda, or anything like that behind his posting. Same basically goes to sicklucker. and a part of it has to do with "reverse process of elimination". I am sorry it is really hard to explain, but i am quite sure i am right here.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 10:33 GMT
#710
On November 03 2015 19:31 sicklucker wrote:
I forget hts mission team but im not voting obv. day 2 only voting a me/rayn team for whoevers picking that

HtS team was herself, me and kitaman.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 10:56 GMT
#715
On November 03 2015 18:38 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 18:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:26 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 18:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
HTS and Superbia are probably spies.

This is almost impossible aswell.

You really think, like really think, that ShoCkeyy is more likely to be town then i am or Xatalos is?
I cannot believe that sorry.

Yes. I really think that. You can guess I really think that because I wrote it in my list post.
Xatalos is not looking for scums.
You sound emotionless.
That's my problem with you two. If you're town, I hope you're OK.

Here we go again. Every single time i try to play "better" and be as reasonable towards everyone in the game i get this bullshit scumread of being emotionless. Guess i need to just yell "fuck you you piece of shit" to everyone in every game. Fucking weak Rels, fucking weak.

Tell me this, who are kitaman's scumreads?

You should ask him. p: From memory, Superbia, Xatalos, maybe HTS, maybe Arta.

Remember, this is going to be an interesting post later on.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 10:58 GMT
#716
Xatalos i hope you read the thread, especially my posts really carefully before you post.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 11:13 GMT
#718
On November 03 2015 20:09 Superbia wrote:
I won't have anytime today bc of my gf's birthday. I will vote yes on this team for reasons I will explain tomorrow.

you shouldn't vote yes though. especially if you don't have time to play today.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 11:28 GMT
#721
On the other hand we could just pick three of rayn/Xatalos/Artanis/sicklucker and when the mission 1 passes then add the fourth and i guarantee you we will win the game, otherwise you can call me scum and i won't even resist.

But the problem with this is we would need at least one of the two remaining townies to see this and i am not sure if that's gonna happen so i go with the route of proving who is scum then instead. Sorry guys, this will take a bit more time, but i know what i am doing.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 12:50 GMT
#728
On November 03 2015 21:38 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 20:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On the other hand we could just pick three of rayn/Xatalos/Artanis/sicklucker and when the mission 1 passes then add the fourth and i guarantee you we will win the game, otherwise you can call me scum and i won't even resist.

But the problem with this is we would need at least one of the two remaining townies to see this and i am not sure if that's gonna happen so i go with the route of proving who is scum then instead. Sorry guys, this will take a bit more time, but i know what i am doing.


You're that confident in Artanis/SL? Over HTS? I can kind of see suspecting HTS after that odd team proposal, but if she was scum with Kita, why bother with adding Kita anyway? If HTS was scum and Kita town (lol), then.. Hm, maybe it could be to blame it on Kita? Well, I guess that makes sense. Still I doubt HTS/Kita are both Spies and Kita looks worse IMO.

Neither Artanis nor SL has done much yet... I guess that could be taken as not pushing an agenda like you said. I'm not quite ready to call them "obvious town" yet though, because not doing anything could also mean that there hasn't been a reason to do anything (for example, if HTS was scum? - although I don't think it's too likely).

Yeah that's what i am basically saying. I see no reason for HtS to not think you are town anymore, and add kita into the team if they are both mafia. That's why i think they are not both mafia. And kita is definitely easier to put the sabotage blame on than you are. But the switch from you -> kita gives me a pause, especially after HtS even puts Superbia as a townread over you (which i definitely do not agree with).

The way i see scum approaching this from the point of view that you are town is basically that casting doubt on you is at this point of the game a good play, because it's highly unlike the HtS team gets passed, and you are the next leader on line. So whoever you pick (assuming you are picking two other townies), they have a valid excuse to disagree with the team based on "Xatalos is there".

That's exactly what i did as scum in the last game i played, and it works out surprisingly well if you can't get your own team through and/or if you have the (rest of the) leaders from your scumteam in the bottom of the queue. That's also what i see all of kitaman/shockeyy/rels/hts possibly doing here. I don't understand any of those people's reasons for not heavily townreading you because you are very obviously town in this game.

As for your last paragraph, i do think at least Artanis would push stuff more, and SL would bus (lol). Basically as scum you want to look as town as possible and bussing is definitely not out of question, since you only need one scum onto a mission. If you, from the beginning, cut your own chances of getting to missions as scum, you basically just lose the game. Artanis knows better, and i find it genuine that he just has not have time to play and therefore hasn't have good reads. And i still think SL would just bus. And the rest of the people look worse anyways, and everyone cannot be scum.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:03 GMT
#729
Basically Xatalos, the point is the following:

1) If there are three scum, and the plan goes through, we autowin the game.
2) That is not going to happen because kitaman will refuse to follow up with that if there is three scum
3) When kitaman refuses to the plan, he actually has to explain why one of Rels/ShoCkeyy is mafia
4) When kitaman says "no" to the plan, i am going to ask Rels about his read on kitaman, and where does he base that on -- in contrary to the read on you (the "Xatalos does not have scumreads" part -- i will explain that further then)

5) And then all of this doesn't matter, except for we get scum talking about each other and not give bullshit reads

6) And the plan will still be town-favored if there is even 2 scum in that group of three (which i am 95% sure of, unless i am playing horribly in this game).
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:11 GMT
#732
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:12 GMT
#735
On November 03 2015 22:12 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Basically Xatalos, the point is the following:

1) If there are three scum, and the plan goes through, we autowin the game.
2) That is not going to happen because kitaman will refuse to follow up with that if there is three scum
3) When kitaman refuses to the plan, he actually has to explain why one of Rels/ShoCkeyy is mafia
4) When kitaman says "no" to the plan, i am going to ask Rels about his read on kitaman, and where does he base that on -- in contrary to the read on you (the "Xatalos does not have scumreads" part -- i will explain that further then)

5) And then all of this doesn't matter, except for we get scum talking about each other and not give bullshit reads

6) And the plan will still be town-favored if there is even 2 scum in that group of three (which i am 95% sure of, unless i am playing horribly in this game).


Yeah, I think it's a good way to put pressure on the scumteam. Not sure if you want to talk about the reasons openly like this though? I also thought of a couple other reasons unrelated to those, but I definitely wouldn't want to talk about them this openly..

Well if kitaman is scum he knows all this already because he is a smart guy.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:21 GMT
#739
HtS here is another question to you:

Here is what has happened regarding ShoCkeyy and his reads. He calls me scum. People point out how his reasoning is flawed. This makes him call ALSO Xatalos scum. Now okay, he thinks i am scum and Xatalos is scum, therefore he refuses a team of HtS/rayn/Xatalos. Logicwise this could make sense but the next thing he says is "at least switch rayn to Superbia so we know who is scum if the mission fails". This doesn't make any sense as town as:

1) If he reads Xatalos scum, he should want to swap BOTH of me and Xatalos from that team
2) therefore the only logical explanation for me is (if he actually wants to push a team of his liking and not just say something) that he needs scum there -> and that scum would be Superbia.

Now i know this is unflipped association but you cannot basically deny that this is possible, and even likely. There is really nothing but unflipped associations in Resistance, and that is the only way i can see that (logically) making sense. Noone should ever push a team with scum in it unless they can logically explain it -- and "at least we know who is scum" is not a logical explanation for picking a team where there is scum over all town team.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:23 GMT
#742
On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town.


Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again.

Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively.

#455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read.

He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia.

The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through.
The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him.

As you seem to be relying heavily on meta -- at least here on Xatalos and Superbia (basically the whole read of yours on both of them is based on meta), why are you not relying on meta on kitaman. A couple of questions regarding this:
- Do you think kitaman is incapable of making those kinda posts as scum?
- Do you think kitaman's play does not make sense as scum (see my post towards him a couple of pages ago)?
- Do you think kitaman has hard reads and is taking hard stances? If so, who would you say he thinks is scum and why?
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:29 GMT
#748
On November 03 2015 22:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
rayn how much more are you going to post with out confronting me? Cause I was calling you out all day yesterday and not once did you interact with me... I want you to quote where I call you scum. Please...

I don't argue with scum.
And all of your posts are calling me scum.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:32 GMT
#754
ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission?
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:37 GMT
#760
On November 03 2015 22:34 Half the Sky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town.


Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again.

Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively.

#455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read.

He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia.

The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through.
The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him.

As you seem to be relying heavily on meta -- at least here on Xatalos and Superbia (basically the whole read of yours on both of them is based on meta), why are you not relying on meta on kitaman. A couple of questions regarding this:
- Do you think kitaman is incapable of making those kinda posts as scum?
- Do you think kitaman's play does not make sense as scum (see my post towards him a couple of pages ago)?
- Do you think kitaman has hard reads and is taking hard stances? If so, who would you say he thinks is scum and why?


First question, admittedly no. Actually early on, I was pressuing him because I wasn't seeing town Kita (read: meta).
Kita is a capable player as mafia. Quite. I am aware of that.
I'll look at your post again a couple of pages ago but if I recall the right post - I would not take the position that Xatalos is exclusively mafia for not having any mafia reads but at the same time, he's not the first person in TL to scumread someone for not having any scumreads.

When I was reading his filter - did he explicitly say "X is (alignment), Y is (this alignment)," no he didn't and if that's what you are looking for, I can understand why you are scumreading him. But in going through his posts on various people, it was pretty easy to tell for me from context who he was townreading or not as strongly. I know I even commented on that somewhere earlier in this game too.

So if people want to reject this team for that reason, that's fine. If people want to fear read Kita, I get that.

I am basically trying to say that he scumreads Xatalos for "not giving out scumreads" when Xatalos actually has a good portion of townreads based on quite logical reasons. In contrary to this, kitaman has only one real read, which is that i am town.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:39 GMT
#761
On November 03 2015 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 22:34 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town.


Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again.

Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively.

#455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read.

He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia.

The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through.
The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him.

As you seem to be relying heavily on meta -- at least here on Xatalos and Superbia (basically the whole read of yours on both of them is based on meta), why are you not relying on meta on kitaman. A couple of questions regarding this:
- Do you think kitaman is incapable of making those kinda posts as scum?
- Do you think kitaman's play does not make sense as scum (see my post towards him a couple of pages ago)?
- Do you think kitaman has hard reads and is taking hard stances? If so, who would you say he thinks is scum and why?


First question, admittedly no. Actually early on, I was pressuing him because I wasn't seeing town Kita (read: meta).
Kita is a capable player as mafia. Quite. I am aware of that.
I'll look at your post again a couple of pages ago but if I recall the right post - I would not take the position that Xatalos is exclusively mafia for not having any mafia reads but at the same time, he's not the first person in TL to scumread someone for not having any scumreads.

When I was reading his filter - did he explicitly say "X is (alignment), Y is (this alignment)," no he didn't and if that's what you are looking for, I can understand why you are scumreading him. But in going through his posts on various people, it was pretty easy to tell for me from context who he was townreading or not as strongly. I know I even commented on that somewhere earlier in this game too.

So if people want to reject this team for that reason, that's fine. If people want to fear read Kita, I get that.

I am basically trying to say that he scumreads Xatalos for "not giving out scumreads" when Xatalos actually has a good portion of townreads based on quite logical reasons. In contrary to this, kitaman has only one real read, which is that i am town.

Like i couldn't give any less fucks about this "now this guy looks a bit better" or "now this guy looks a bit worse" and yes, it kinda implies you think something of their alignment. So does Xatalos' posting.

So saying kitaman's posting does imply that and his "case" on Xatalos (=Xatalos' posting doesn't imply that) is just aa bunch of bullshit.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 13:41 GMT
#763
On November 03 2015 22:40 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:34 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 03 2015 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would still like you HtS to explain why kitaman is town.


Pretty sure I did through the course of things, but sure will do again.

Basically I had gone though his filter and I'm seeing points where he's driving the discussion pretty constructively.

#455 is a good example of this to a response from Xatalos that would appear somewhat worded vaguely "like solving the game" where he's asking him to substantiate his read.

He did the same thing to me in #458, the followups were there re: Superbia.

The other posts that I liked were 569 and anything he mentioned after the nominations went through.
The responses to Xatalos re: Superbia were spot on - the latter was not engaged constantly with the thread and from what I can tell those questions would appear to me as trying to figure Xata's alignment since he's obviously said he's not sold on him.

As you seem to be relying heavily on meta -- at least here on Xatalos and Superbia (basically the whole read of yours on both of them is based on meta), why are you not relying on meta on kitaman. A couple of questions regarding this:
- Do you think kitaman is incapable of making those kinda posts as scum?
- Do you think kitaman's play does not make sense as scum (see my post towards him a couple of pages ago)?
- Do you think kitaman has hard reads and is taking hard stances? If so, who would you say he thinks is scum and why?


First question, admittedly no. Actually early on, I was pressuing him because I wasn't seeing town Kita (read: meta).
Kita is a capable player as mafia. Quite. I am aware of that.
I'll look at your post again a couple of pages ago but if I recall the right post - I would not take the position that Xatalos is exclusively mafia for not having any mafia reads but at the same time, he's not the first person in TL to scumread someone for not having any scumreads.

When I was reading his filter - did he explicitly say "X is (alignment), Y is (this alignment)," no he didn't and if that's what you are looking for, I can understand why you are scumreading him. But in going through his posts on various people, it was pretty easy to tell for me from context who he was townreading or not as strongly. I know I even commented on that somewhere earlier in this game too.

So if people want to reject this team for that reason, that's fine. If people want to fear read Kita, I get that.

I am basically trying to say that he scumreads Xatalos for "not giving out scumreads" when Xatalos actually has a good portion of townreads based on quite logical reasons. In contrary to this, kitaman has only one real read, which is that i am town.


Are you even reading the right thread?????...

He obviously gives A LOT more reads...

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote:
I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet.

Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads.

Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself

Half the Sky - Strong town read

On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote:
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.


raynpelikoneet - Strong town read

On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote:
rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.


Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part.

On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote:
Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.


On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too


Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null

On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:
Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay.


Artanis[Xp] - Null/No shared opinion?
ShoCkeyy - Null/No shared opinion?

sicklucker - Null

kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then.

From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo.

On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote:
Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.


I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination.

I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around


And where is there an actual read?
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