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I am genuinely curious kitaman.
Do you think i am scum? If i am i must be scum with someone on the team right?
Who is that someone?
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On November 08 2015 02:12 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 02:08 kitaman27 wrote:On November 08 2015 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 02:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 08 2015 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 01:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 08 2015 01:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 01:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 08 2015 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis why do you want to change the team if you think i am town? Because I think Rels is mafia and you are town. If Rels is mafia why do both of SL and Xatalos say they will vote no? To look better and/or because they scumread Rels of course. Why do they not change their read on Rels based on what i said? Actually Xatalos doesn't even scumread Rels... Or like, he has three other people who are "more likely to be mafia than Rels", yet he STILL wants to downvote the team. Well, I'm willing to add Rels if you're that confident. But if he ends up being scum I will blame you postgame  the thing is if the mission somehow gets sabotaged, people will blame me. and i will get mad for it. and both of the possible mafia (SL/Xata) don't want the team (excluding me) to go anyways. I think it is just better play, and i think Rels is not mafia. You can blame me post game if he is scum. This makes no sense. You prioritize whether or not people will blame you over whether or not mission two will pass? If mission two fails, the game is almost certainly over. How townie you look at that point would be the least of your worries. No it isn't. As i said whoever Artanis nominates i am gonna vote yes for (unless he puts both of SL/Xatalos onto the team). I am just giving my opinion. Why do you disagree with me wanting to swap myself with Rels, you are townreading him, no? What % sure are you that HTS is scum right now?
I think the team is hts/shockeyy/sicklucker.
I can't give any percentage. I don't know why should i.
If you really want some kind of a percentage atm it is 100% for me.
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On November 08 2015 02:15 kitaman27 wrote:
I think you're playing sub-optimally if you are town. Sending those four means you have to be perfect on your HTS/Shockyy/(1 from mission 1) assumption.
Okay. To be honest i am most confident of Artanis being scum outside the mission 1 and hts/shockeyy.
I really don't think Rels is mafia. Therefore it doesn't matter at all if me - Rels goes onto a mission, and i can't make Artanis swap himself with me right?
And after all i think he is not scum anyways. You can't win this game as town if you do not accept missions where you are not in by yourself. Excluding Xatalos 100% form the mission is just a pre-caution in case i am wrong, since while i think your read on him is bad, i also realize there is a possibility that i am wrong and you are not.
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On November 08 2015 02:21 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 02:15 kitaman27 wrote:
I think you're playing sub-optimally if you are town. Sending those four means you have to be perfect on your HTS/Shockyy/(1 from mission 1) assumption. Okay. To be honest i am most confident of Artanis being scum outside the mission 1 and hts/shockeyy. I really don't think Rels is mafia. Therefore it doesn't matter at all if me - Rels goes onto a mission, and i can't make Artanis swap himself with me right? Yes, you can. Your policy that you will pass any Artanis mission is what is keeping you from nominating yourself over him, no? Is there not a difference between "I think X is town" and "I know I am town"?
have we voted yet?
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I didn't really want to bring this up but meh... you had to ask. ^^
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On November 08 2015 02:24 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I suggest you pick yourself, Rels, kitaman and Superbia.
It will get nay-voted anyways but meh. I won't vote for any team that has one of the two YES voters not on the team (HTS and Arta). It's 99% sure there is one scum between them, and XX% there is two. I have no idea how to calculate XX but I can assure it's a big number. The best plan here, regardless of reads, is to send 3 of the NO voters + 1 of the failure team. The NO voters have at most one mafia between them, and possibly none; so it's the biggest chance of success. And if the mission fails, there is a big chance the 1 from the failure team is mafia.
would you vote yes on a team with me in it if it doesn't include Artanis/SL/Xatalos/HtS?
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and then this guy gives me a headache again... 
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On November 08 2015 02:31 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 02:24 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I suggest you pick yourself, Rels, kitaman and Superbia.
It will get nay-voted anyways but meh. I won't vote for any team that has one of the two YES voters not on the team (HTS and Arta). It's 99% sure there is one scum between them, and XX% there is two. I have no idea how to calculate XX but I can assure it's a big number. The best plan here, regardless of reads, is to send 3 of the NO voters + 1 of the failure team. The NO voters have at most one mafia between them, and possibly none; so it's the biggest chance of success. And if the mission fails, there is a big chance the 1 from the failure team is mafia. would you vote yes on a team with me in it if it doesn't include Artanis/SL/Xatalos/HtS? Maybe. I would prefer SL or Xatalos instead of you. But I prefer you to HTS / Arta.
?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis.....
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i suddenly retract from my townread on Rels.
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On November 08 2015 02:34 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis..... Yes there is a big chance HTS and Arta are both scum.
but you want to send your scumread from mission one.
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On November 08 2015 02:37 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 02:34 Rels wrote:On November 08 2015 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you think i am the most likely person to be scum in the failed mission but you want to send ME instead of HtS/Artanis..... Yes there is a big chance HTS and Arta are both scum. but you want to send your scumread from mission one. Look, you asked me a question, I answered. I would prefer anyone to HTS / Arta who both voted for a team that: - didn't include them - failed If you had asked me "what team would I send", I wouldn't answer the same way.
well if you think i am the mafia from mission one you should never want to send me onto a mission over anyone who was not on the first mission.
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do you have any opinions on anything?
like real opinions? gameplaywise?
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I would like you to tell us why i am mafia.
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On November 08 2015 02:50 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 06 2015 01:04 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 06:30 Rels wrote:@rayn from your huge wall: On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The fact is, if you read Rels' posts in this light, there is literally way way way more things that are just plain out fucking scummy. Expand. On November 05 2015 01:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Now the point of all this was a couple of things: - Rels; i didn't learn anything, although he called my logic "twisted", and i still don't know why. maybe he explains it someday, as there is nothing twisted in my logic. (i am pretty sure Xatalos & Artanis see what i was after here) - ShoCkeyy; i don't really care since he is scum anyways, but he thinks i am scum (regardless of what he tries to say -- he does), so why does he accept a team proposed by scum? Like.. if i was scum i would put a teammate there, obviously, i am not stupid. - regarding you, i wanted to push your reads out, because i was annoyed of you not giving any concrete reads. I know you would never agree to this regardless of who is mafia and regardless of your alignment. The thing that confuses me is that you kinda called me scummy for it, when there is literally no scum motivation for me to do that (i actually did a similar "anti-town" thing in Nuclear Winter mafia (which never had any anti-town motivation that anyone could explain) -- and caught Ace pants down on N1 ). Your logic is twisted because the goal of the game is to pass mission, not fail them. I clearly said there is a town motivation behind your proposal though. So I don't understand why I'm on that list ? Expand. - Your read on ShoCkeyy is basically "he does scummy things so he is town" - Your read on me at the start of the game - Your push on Superbia - You not considering kitaman scum, when there was really no reason to think he is town - There are more things after you posted here, but they are irrelevant to this. Basically all this is in my filter. Yet you are incapable of finding these things out on your own. I ask because just before you were pushing on the fact that my cases were "boring", which you don't list here. Every point on this list has been explained: - shockey's read is NOT "he does scummy things so he is town"; it's "if shockey is scum, he's playing to lose the game". - my push on you at the start of the game was logical; - Superbia's attack on Xata was not based on logic and was over the top for the beginning of the game. It makes no sense that you townread him at that point - I played with mafia!kita in Personality mafia; he layed low but provided good analysis on weak people, so we would mislynch them. Here he is laying low and providing good analysis, but on strong townies, which is super different
- then tell me how my case on shockeyy is not him doing scummy things please.
- no it was not, it never was, you even fucking said so yourself
- that is debatable, and this is "i said you said" so i am not gonna argue about this
- on strong townies? like who? me? or Xatalos? by your definition his analysis on strong players are wrong (except for you -- if you consider yourself strong), so how does that make him town again?
I am pretty sure my case on you came after this so it has nothing to do with THIS QUESTION you posed to me.
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On November 08 2015 03:18 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Last time i am going to post this:
Here is why ShoCkeyy is mafia:First of all these things go together: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. Xatalos is null -> that means he has to townread the people i colored green in the post. There is no other possible way he says this. On November 03 2015 22:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission? Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you... Townreads on kitaman and Rels. On November 04 2015 04:52 ShoCkeyy wrote:
@kita you summed it up here:
"He doesn't seem comfortable giving out statements which he isn't confident about. This could either mean that truly isn't sure and wants more time until it is clear or that he doesn't want to make a statement that could backfire later on in the game."
And also, I have been looking into rayn's previous games. Another thing, I don't need to be on a team, I already know I'm town, so when ever I do get on a team I'll be a 33% chance that it will pass. My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Look at the bolded part in this post for further reference. On November 05 2015 02:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/l8XDS/c5b4b0ac75.png) Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much. Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose. You missed that I town read you and rels also. Another thing, why would I say I don't need to get on a team if I was mafia? Wouldn't I want to be on a team if I was mafia in order to sabotage?... You guys don't make any sense. I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work. Now from these posts we can gather the following: Everyone except rayn/Xatalos/sicklucker is townreads. I don't give a fuck if the dude says "i didn't actually say that" because that is just bullshit. If he townreads five people and he is himself town that literally means he thinks the rest of the people are likely to be mafia. Now let's go to this, what i bolded earlier: My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Okay so in his opinion, he has found the townies. This doesn't go along with how he ACTUALLY votes for the HtS team. For two reasons: 1) He "knows" there is scum on the team. In fact he should assume there is two scum (me/Xatalos). Yet he still votes yes, while earlier on saying he will refuse that team. 2) Now if he wants to be "tricky" and yay-vote the team because there are 2 scum in it, that would be okay. But that's not why he says he yay-voted it (i could have somehow understood that explanation). To elaborate further onto this all. Shockeyy was okay with there being 1 scum on the team while saying his current focus is finding town -- that doesn't really go along with what he said earlier. A reasonable explanation for the yay-vote should have been "in fact it's better that there are 2 or even 3 scum on the team, as long as we don't send any of those people onto further mission". That's not however his explanation. This entire section is based on the assumption that the first team contained rayn / Xata. Unless I've been mistaken for a few days, the first team was HTS / Superbia / rayn. Why made you think the first team was Xata / rayn / (I assume HTS) ? Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Onto Xatalos' team. In Shockeyy's opinion this mission had three scum in it. Yet he refused to yay-vote it. Again, his stance is: On November 05 2015 23:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:Idk why it's so hard for people to understand I knew the votes would be visible... Also it's not hard to look through my filter. On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. The lineup when I voted was HtS, Xata and Kita, which I was perfectly fine with. Also, a bit more on my strategy. Losing the first one is a big deal to me, because then we have 1 out of 3 that have to be mafia. We just do not ever send any of them to any missions. After there will be three missions that are ready to be won since the fourth one needs at least 2 mafia members and we know of already one by then who hasn't gone on any other missions. Obviously there will be two more, as well, but with this game dragging out, it'll eventually be easy to spot them. ... now if he actually believes all of me/Xatalos/SL are mafia, he should upvote this team. Just because then we don't send any of them into further mission --> the town wins, since the town will automatically pick 4 town whoever they pick. Then when the mission passes, the same team gets picked again. Then when the mission passes who cares who is picked onto mission 4. The other possibility is he doesn't actually townread the people he says he townreads, which also doesn't make any sense. Dont' know how you can arguee voting NO to a team you think contains three scums is scum indicative. At least I didn't get it reading this. Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- His approach to how he votes doesn't line up with WHY he acts in some way in some situations and in another way in other situations.
- He doesn't really give any reasoning to his reads. The only reasoning he gives is the scumreads on me and Xatalos, and "he is angry", "they are in the thread at the same time", "they both suspected Rels" is not a reason to scumread anyone.
- When he is called out of his reads, he says "i didn't really call you scum" -- i think everyone can see why this is literally bullshit, kitaman already pointed this out. The only scum indicative thing here is the "I didn't really call you scum" part, which could be seen as scum not wanting to commit to a read. The first one is logical from his POV (if the first team go and fails, rayn is confirmed scum; then voting NO to an all scum team). The second one doesn't mean anything unless it's also a meta read ? Well I was not convinced. And you don't talk about the fact that: - shockey is playing to lose if he's scum, as a team with him has a very small chance to be accepted - he voted NO to a team containing one scum. It's just not logical he's still your #1 scumread (if he's not anymore, my bad)
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On November 08 2015 04:05 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would like you to tell us why i am mafia. I'm not that sure anymore, but here is my problems with your play: - your read on me is not logical. I understand that's OMGUS that I will let that pass EXCEPT that post where you say my play here is "boring" and comparing my town play to my noobking push. I've explained in length why it is not true, and you should have known that. - you're leading the thread, and that scares me. The first team included you; the second team was a suggestion of you (?) or at least a team you were OK with; and that Arta's team is a straigth up order from you. - you were part of a failure team; you voted YES to this failure team. - Arta putting a scumread of his in his nomination is super scummy; if you're scum, you're scum with Arta, and that's why he's listening to you. Why are you townreading the guy ?
can you see why this is super bad?
none of the reasons you point out here actually make me mafia.
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anyways i am leaving now.
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EPT
