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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So your reason for Xatalos being town is SL is scum? What makes you convinced on that? No it's basically the other way around. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:48 Half the Sky wrote: I brought disassociation up with Xata before but it was tinfoil for one player let alone two. That aside, their reads? I know Shockey was scumreading anyone who was scumreading him or at least heavily suspicious of you. And Rels was scumreading sicklucker or at least doubtful on him - if SL is town he's an easy guy to push. So for either of them to vote otherwise would fly in the face of how their reads were and they would have an unexplained change in reads. Or an unexplained change in reasoning, which scum generally want to keep things together on. If I had to go with the theory that only one of those people coudl be scum, since you are saying it's unlikely two scum voted no, then I'd probably say Rels over Shockey but that would mean that one of them is playing very suboptimally (and I know neither has played this type of game so this is quite possible) and I'd have to really look at both from the bottom up to determin that. But Rels isn't really pushing sl alone, he is pushing me too. If sl is an easy push to him in your opinion, why does he push me too then as scum? Not really, no, if they townread Artanis. I am talking about Rels here, not Shockeyy. Basically you can't have your reads align too much as scum here, if you are pushing for 3 mission victory, which seems to be the case here. That's not what i asked. Way to talk about something completely different that i in fact asked..... So your reasoning is "because they would then have unexplained change in reads". I believe Rels is good enough to figure a way out here -- especially if, as you claim, Xatalos is scum. Like if that is the case, i am 100% certain Rels could have found a reason to townread sicklucker -- because sicklucker would ACTUALLY be town (and he townread me + Xatalos anyways, before the team nomination went out). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
wrong | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:57 Half the Sky wrote: Pretty sure Rels said before the fact he was townreading you (even if he's pushing you NOW). I'll double check. That was regarding you saying "sicklucker would be an easy target to put the blame on". If you think that's true then "Rels is also pushing rayn now" doesn't make any fucking sense, or should not make any sense in your world from scum!Rels perspective. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:03 Half the Sky wrote: As I said, I could be wrong on Rels so I have to start from scratch on him. The argument you are presenting is that Rels doesn't have TMI (or however you said it) on SL, but this is also based on your pre-conceived notion that sicklucker actually IS scum. If Rels is scum, he doesn't just have to TMI sicklucker, there are other ways. Let's say that SL is town, and that somehow you're wrong on Xata (and you've been wrong on reads before, so don't say you aren't wrong). Surely you can entertain the slightest possibility that you are wrong. No it is not. It is based on the fact YOU think Rels is scum. For Rels to be scum the following must be true: 1) he knows there is mafia on the mission 2) he still nay-votes the mission 3) instead of (as you are arguing) pushing the "easy target" (sicklucker), he decides to push him AND me Now mafia will obviously want to sabotage the first mission. Rels' play only makes sense as mafia if rayn is scum or Artanis is scum. Because it is highly expected that Artanis will pick AT LEAST rayn (as proven, if you weren't able to figure that out earlier). Otherwise, Rels, by nay-voting the team (where he has an easy scumread on SL after, especially if -- as you say -- Xatalos is scum) hinders his chances of getting a 1-scum mission 1 team. Rels already knows Shockeyy (who you assume is scum with him) will 100% vote nay to the mission. How how does this make sense again? In a sense that Rels doesn't take the easy way out -- instead he takes the hard way out, of calling by ALSO me scum. Like it would be really easy to Rels for just "make up" a legitmate reason for SL to be town (as by your definition SL is town as Xatalos is scum), and after the mission fails he can go, like you do; "hmm... well one of these guys has to be scum, i guess i was wrong on [insert name here]". Why is that less likely? Why does he less likely do that as mafia than what he did? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:10 Half the Sky wrote: Eh, he has a good scumgame. If you're playing suboptimally and any good scum player wants to take advantage of that, they can. Rels has shown as either alignment (as mafia SOTW) he's not afraid of clashing with people. You've been wrong on him twice now in other games, but that's besides the point. Mmmm.. i know. But my problem is when i am "wrong" on him it is because there are retarded townies. tbh in both of the games i have actually considered him as scum, but i can't scumread him over people who are more scummy than he is. Again, if i lose to scum!Rels because there are retarded townies then so be it. idc. But i can't think he is scum when there are more scummy players. If you and Shockeyy looked any better i would totally think he is scum, but based on voting i see no reason to think he could be mafia with Shockeyy. Period. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
If you don't think you can do that, then i am inclined to think you are scum. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:23 Superbia wrote: I also know that people had some questions for me: rayn and rels. Rels I don't remember your question so please restate it asap (maybe I'll find it after this post). Rayn, I stated that I had the willies on you and HtS even though you both felt town. I've explained this I believe. Where did you exactly say that? I am pretty sure you hard-townread at least me before making the "iffy" post. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:28 Superbia wrote: I had you hard townread after list which was super similar to mine Okay so why was HtS iffy then? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:29 Superbia wrote: Same reason as you. Strong players do not get easily townread. This is all in my filter, I believe I've answered this question before. Then why did you hard-townread me in the first place?!?!?!? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You keep pushing this logic about how Rels would yayvote a mission with a mafia on it, but I really don't see how he could when he scumreads at least one player on the mission and make any sense of it. I would also still like to hear what your reasons are for considering Xata so town. I am trying to say i think Rels would have approached the situation differently. Obviously he "can't yay-vote the team" if you just look at what he posted, but my interpretation is that if he was scum he would not post what he did during the voting phase. My read on Xatalos is based on meta. Like based on the last game i don't really look into small inconsistancies that he posts, or him saying he thinks both me and him (while that i stupid) should be included on the mission 2. If someone wants to prove he is scum feel free to and i am willing to listen, i don't think kitaman's case makes him scum. The fact that (gameplay-wise) sicklucker thinks i have 60%+ chance of being scum and he is arguing why Xatalos is scum instead of why i am scum should be scum-indicative already. At least more than anything Xatalos has posted imo. Like i said, i don't see why anything Xatalos has posted is scummy. What am i supposed to argue about? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:38 Superbia wrote: Like the SL inclusion would be so opportunistic and easy from a scum-rayn POV. I really, really don't understand why he was agreeing so easily with it. Artanis should've been much more obvious from his POV imo. I don't even recall rayn having a strong read on SL pre-inclusion. So now there are three four who can't understand the fact that I NEVER PUSHED SL TO BE ON THE TEAM!!!! fucking retarded. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:36 Superbia wrote: Because you shared the exact same town-reads as me at a certain point. I have a question for you rayn- as you are now starting to push scum onto me. Who am I with? I don't even think you are top 3 scum if you are reading the thread properly.... I am just questioning you of the stuff that doesn't make any sense. If you have not realized i am okkay with you being on the team that would go on a mission rn... | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:40 Superbia wrote: Then why the fuck did you vote yes??? Why not wait until Artanis, who was next, makes the team??? Having sicklucker as townread != sicklucker is the best pick as third member of this team. That's what you guys are saying, that's not what i did. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
Until you say something that actually has something to do with people actually being town/mafia you will get scumread and ignored. fact. | ||
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