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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 02:25 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2015 02:20 kitaman27 wrote:On November 16 2015 02:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 16 2015 02:16 Rels wrote:On November 16 2015 02:13 kitaman27 wrote:On November 16 2015 02:10 Rels wrote:On November 16 2015 02:05 kitaman27 wrote:On November 16 2015 00:35 Rels wrote:On November 15 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote:On November 15 2015 04:08 Rels wrote:
[quote]
Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though.
##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn. Just to be clear, do you still feel this was true or was it something you were pushing to "trap" HTS? No I think it's true. If Vivax is scum, he potentially lost the game yesterday. "Vivax is confirmed town because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no." "Kita could be scum because he had the chance to win the game and he voted no, but ....?" What am I missing here, especially considering you had a town read on me and a scum read on vivix prior to the voting results? Where do I say you could be scum ? I'm talking about vivax cause I was scumreading him, so realizing he has to be town changes is a change. No change on you "So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. " Since you say vivax is confirmed town, why couldn't he be a mafia player who was unsure whether the votes would pass and wanted to play it safe? Cause of this: Show nested quote +On November 16 2015 00:35 Rels wrote:On November 15 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote:On November 15 2015 04:08 Rels wrote:On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote:
Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.
Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel)
Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.
I have nothing to hide. Vivax is not here and this is the last time I'm here before getting insanely drunk so let's go with that. No SL though. ##Nominate Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O Yep. Vivax could have won the game right there and didn't. He was here at deadline, when apparently it was super clear multiple people pushed for the YES. If he's scum, he let a chance to win right there fly by him. I will consider him confirmed town unless something drastic happens. So yeah, either rayn or you is scum. Probably rayn. Reading EOD it seemed that the team was going to be accepted. Do you disagree ?
Well the real reason I'm asking is because Xata voted no, but you don't apply that reasoning to him, but I guess #3143 makes sense now that you explained it.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 02:27 Rels wrote:
If you think Vivax might be scum after this, you also think the team had a chance to not be accepted without Vivax' vote right ? And you also think his teammates probably voted YES ?
No I agree that Vivax looks better after the vote.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 02:08 Rels wrote:
True. But what do you think of these ?
I definitely agree that HTS has made her mind up on certain players alignments that could suggest she knows they are town. This could go back as far as the SL post (spoilered below) that showed almost zero doubt. It was such a strong read that I asked Artanis to comment on her read to see if he saw the same thing (he didn't find any problems at the time). I'd still like that summary on why she feels you are mafia if she is willing.
The biggest problem I'd have is that rayn + HTS really seems unlikely because of the reasoning I mentioned. She even nominated him day one without any hesitation (it was super/xata/myself that she was going back and forth on).
If it's not rayn + HTS then that means it would have to be HTS + SL/xata + vivax/rels...which becomes problematic based on the double NO vote on mission three from you two.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 05:29 Vivax wrote:
This game has largely come down to a
HTS/Shockey/SL/Artanis camp vs the Kita/Rels/Xata/Coag(?) camp, according to voting and behaviour.
The problem is that if only 1 scum is bussing, then sending 1 camp always fails the mission (if you pick the right one).
I definitely wouldn't consider Xata in my "camp", even if he wants to buddy me. At the same time, I've already stated that I'd be willing to include a couple individuals from the first group.
You asked me who I think failed the second mission and I'm not ignoring you, but I'm not really sure. Still trying to figure that part out.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 05:38 sicklucker wrote:
kita DO YOU HAVE ANY READS IN THIS GAME?
Yeah?
Town:
Kita
HTS
Rels
Shockeyy (?)
SL (based on Xata being in the below group mostly.)
Mafia:
Artanis
Xatalos
I'm still trying to think through Vivax and rayn more.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 14 2015 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 00:40 kitaman27 wrote:On November 13 2015 16:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Wait, I answered all your questions, you apparently didn't have any more yet now I'm basically confirmed scum to you? Explain yourself. [list] [*]You push suspicion on shockeyy when he questions Rels about the rayn read making a generic statement, rather than considering that he is simply trying to understand the discrepancy. I said that the way he was pushing it, he seemed to be trying to bury Rels. That's how I read it.
I read it as you trying to bury shockeyy.
On November 14 2015 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +[*]Your interaction with Xatalos regarding the day one nomination is very scummy. He asks you directly if you are fine being excluded and you reply yes, stating that we're going to nominate four people next mission so it's not all that important. This is not a town mindset in my opinion. Since that group of three players had at least one spy, it suggests you were more concerned about not having the overlap with two spies in the first mission. I've explained this before. I thought all three players were likely town. If I was correct in that, I got to nominate myself the day after with the group and win the game. I took a risk in presuming all three were town and it didn't pay off, but the logic is certainly there. You're simply framing it in a mafia mindset when the townie mindset is obvious.
That's such an unnecessary risk though. You could have insisted on being in the group of three, if it passes then you find a forth to bring along. If it fails, then you have a mafia within a pool of two players. By excluding yourself, you double the chance that the first mission fails and have a larger pool to analyze. Furthermore, even if you liked that group of three, the obvious town response is to fail and then send it through again once you have the vote information.
On November 14 2015 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +[*]After creating your chart, you town read sicklucker for being open and aggressive and pledge your support behind the day one team. However your chart shows that sicklucker has a single strong scum read on xatalos. When sicklucker drops the scum read on xatalos after he is included, you don't think anything of it. The chart was a single moment in time. Sicklucker had been open and aggressive.
I think Xata is scum, but if he includes me then I'll pass the mission is not an "open" mindset like you explain. You never questioned SL's weird swap and are way too content to have him included over yourself.
On November 14 2015 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +[*]When it comes up your turn to suggest a nomination, you decide to throw it away by letting rayn talk you into excluding the player who you seem to have the strongest town read for. You say you suggested the team because you wanted it to fail to gain information. However, on day one when there was a large amount of information to be gained and less content in the thread to go by, you decided to pass the mission. Furthermore, there is little sense of concern about accidentally having the mission go through when you didn't want it to. The information gained from your nomination after it failed was negligible. I didn't have time on Day 1. Monday through Wednesday are very busy days for me. I can keep repeating that if you want. Furthermore, no team that I wanted that I could suggest would go through. By sending a mission that would not pass through, there'd be more days to gather information and I'd have more time to actually get more accurate reads as well as make myself townread and get on a mission I favour.
If information is the goal here and you want more time, then why didn't that reasoning apply to mission 1 like I say?
On November 14 2015 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +[*]When the same exact mission with rayn subbed out for yourself comes up, you provide very little input regarding how people should vote. You state that you didn't nominate the team of artanis/super/rayn/kita because you were still not sure about super. This doesn't really seem to change in the next 24 hours. However, when the rayn/rels/super/kita team comes up you vote no, but make little effort to make sure the mission doesn't pass. The no vote sets you up to look townie going into cycle three, while still allowing the vote to go through by staying quiet. So now I'm being scumread for voting no on a mission with scum on it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you came into this analysis with a made up mind already. I'm sorry that I didn't have the time to push hard on not wanting the mission to go through. That doesn't actually make me scum.
Strawman. I'm not saying that you are being scumread for voting no, I'm saying that you are being scum read for not wanting a team to go through, yet doing nothing about it. Even if you don't have the time to push hard, it only takes 30 seconds to share you objection. You take the credit for the voting record yet are content with it going through.
On November 14 2015 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +[*]After town reading me the entire game, you state that I should be excluded by cherry picking my post when I made the assumption that I'm town. Of course I'm going to assume I'm town. You then apply a process of elimination read by stating that Xata/Super cannot be scum buddies, therefore it is likely that Xata/Kita could be scum buddies. You state that the Xata/Super interaction has no benefit, but they both came out on good terms in the thread and Super earned a lot of town points based on the little spat they had. However, you fail to consider that the Xata/Kita interaction has very little actual benefit, by dismissing it as a bus of sorts. Outcome does not matter, it's the mindset going into it that matters. I really don't believe any scum player, especially Superbia would come up with the idea of "let's attack Xatalos for some awkward wording he made and keep hammering on about it for no reason, I'm sure that's going to get me so much towncred!" I really don't. Scumreading eachother is also not as big a deal in Resistance as it is in real mafia, since it only matters to get on a mission yourself.
Well I'm not arguing that Xata/Super are buddies, so again you are misrepresenting my argument. I'm saying the way you apply their interaction to somehow conclude that I'm mafia is the scummy part.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 05:53 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2015 05:43 kitaman27 wrote:On November 16 2015 05:38 sicklucker wrote:
kita DO YOU HAVE ANY READS IN THIS GAME? Yeah? Town: Kita HTS Rels Shockeyy (?) SL (based on Xata being in the below group mostly.) Mafia: Artanis Xatalos I'm still trying to think through Vivax and rayn more. Same here, why should Artanis in your opinion vote yes to Shockey's team who in your scenario is all town anyway? If I'm mafia why should I vote no? What's there to think about?
Well arta town reads each of the nominated players so voting no and then being on the wrong side of a passed mission could lose the game. Similarly, he would have a lot of explaining to do if the mission failed.
As for you, if you weren't positive there were enough votes to pass, then you could wifom yourself with the "if I'm scum I could have won last night" argument. That being said, I think you had a valid reason to justify a yes vote so I'm willing to consider that you could be town, which would require rethinking rayn or rels.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I think the whole Rels "bahaha I trapped you HTS with my crappy nomination" thing was a bit over dramatic. Maybe it was a hail marry. Like I said, gotta reread a bit.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
meh I'm going to just vote yes as well. I'm ready for this to be over XD
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 10:19 Vivax wrote:Kita and Xata have become lazy and complacent in the war of attrition. Makes me more confident. Coag...Whatevs, he might post a townie seal at some point and maybe vote. Studying at 2 AM, living the dream... 
lol stop that. It's day 16. You can't possibly expect me to play four hours a day for three weeks straight. Don't call me lazy though.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 09:58 sicklucker wrote:
so I can submit the same team and me and vivax can vote yes and end this game one way or the other.
Or I can submit a more safer team but not garantee mission five and we can all yell at each other some more. pretty much up to you vivax. I kindo f want to replace art with coag but hes not even playing or voting so we cant really do that altho art should still vote yes to that unless he wants to claim scum
Definitely not art. I'd say probably no to coag at this point too. Just stick with the team that is more likely to pass.
Of course I'd still prefer myself being included if you're willing to be reasonable XD
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 10:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2015 10:29 kitaman27 wrote:On November 16 2015 10:19 Vivax wrote:Kita and Xata have become lazy and complacent in the war of attrition. Makes me more confident. Coag...Whatevs, he might post a townie seal at some point and maybe vote. Studying at 2 AM, living the dream... lol stop that. It's day 16. You can't possibly expect me to play four hours a day for three weeks straight. Don't call me lazy though. I expect you to contribute to solving the game but I didn't see that drive much. Imagine all the nice things you could have done as town. It always pains me when good players roll scum, especially cause then I tend to be a dick towards them. Anyway, enough feels talk for the time being. Since Artanis is the guy you weren't sure on, would you YES vote the same team Shockey sent?
I've contributed just as much as anyone else has this game.
I'd consider the Shockeyy team.
On November 14 2015 01:29 Vivax wrote:
Btw I hardly see people considering putting Arta on a team, which I really don't get.
So I take it you disagree with the points that I brought up? You think a mafia Artanis whose three scum reads were all excluded from the team would risk a no vote?
Also, what do you think about Rels now? You shot down my initially town read, but has that changed? If not, could you summarize why Rels is mafia? I've been asking HTS to do that for about five days now, but she refuses or something.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 16 2015 11:21 Vivax wrote:
Idk Artanis seemed town to me but whoever it was who said that his post today was probably overexplained did have a point. I think it was Rels.
Could you provide some specifics for what I'm missing then?
On November 16 2015 11:21 Vivax wrote:
You mentioned at some point that 2 sabotages were always possible I think, if two spies on a mission did it at once even if it wasn't required until mission 4. Do you still believe/know that?
Point being, does it become public if you send 2 spies on a mission and they both choose to sabot, even before mission 4?
My assumption is yes, though I don't know that as a fact.
After the first two mission failed we got a "1 Sabotage action detected." message. I'd think that message would be meaningless if 2 Sabotage actions wasn't possible.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I can put something together, but if you're giving me busy work prior to failing a mission I'll never forgive you 
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Reads since shockeyy nomination was rejected:
Xatalos:
SL clear scum
Would reject Rels team
HTS has to be scum
SL/HTS 95% scum, unsure of third. Artanis/Rels?
Team is either SL/HTS/Rels or SL/HTS/Vivax
Questions if SL/HTS might actually be town
SL/HTS/Rels as guess
coag + 2 of HTS/Artanis/shockeyy as secondary guess
Only mafia team that makes sense is SL/HTS/Rels
HTS looks bad because of yes votes on failing teams
Prefers nominated team of xata/vivax/kita + shockey/artanis
kita looks town because of voting record
HTS is stretching things
Team is dirty with HTS. If HTS town, then one of Arta/shockeyy scum
Team is SL/HTS/Rels
TWo scum in SL team likely
Artanis:
Shockey, Vivax, Half the Sky, sicklucker was a clean team
Will auto-reject Rels team and upvote SL team
yay voting any team without xata/rels/kita
Vivax town because of vote
SL town because of try hard
rayn definitely town
vivax's arguement on rayn might make him reconsider
rayn is still town
kita is clearly mafia because of reads on him and Vivax
Rels is mafia because he is a hypocrit
SL is town for tryharding
Xata is scum because of hts arguement
Scum is rels/kita/xata + maybe rayn
Will pass any team outside of Kita/Xata/Rels
SL:
Town reads on the team, questioning including Vivax
Scum team likely xata/rels/kits + maybe Vivax
Art likely town, but maybe spy with HTS
Unsure on coag, struggling to pick 5th between art and coag
Vivax town likely because of vote
Vivax + Shockeyy confirmed town
HTS likely town
artanis a bit sketchy because of votes and reads
trusts hts/art more than coag
We should no vote rels team for more info on Artanis
HTS unlikely scum
kita/rels/xata scum because of scum read on SL
Suggests nominated team of vivax/hts/coag/shockey
mafia team is xata/rels/art or xata/rels/kita
arta could have voted yes for mission 5 inclusion
nominates Sicklucker shockeyy half the sky vivax
Vivax:
kita/coag/Rels/Xata likely to be spies
Unsure on coag
Mafia is kita + xata + coag/rels
Xatalos is town
rayn could be mafia
team is rayn + hts + arta (shockeyy?)
Team should be SL/viviax/?/?
Wants people to talk about Rels/HTS
Artanis likely town because of yes vote to shockeyy mission
xata/rels/art is not a valid team because of arta vote
recommends coag submits vivax/sl/shockeyy/hts for more info on arta
kita/xata scummy because of activity
arta seems town, though not completely sure
Unsure on rels
HTS:
The scum team is xata/Rels/Kita
xata and kita are scum because they are associated with scum rels
rayn is certainly town
Perfers nominated team of Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey followed by Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation
Feels the rels team is clean
Kita guilty of framing arta
Rels is misrepreseting facts
rayn is town
Kita is mafia based on Personality mafia
Team is xata/kita/rels
The rels team is clean
Will pass any team outside of Kita/Xata/Rels
Rels:
Nominates Artanis/Vivax/HTS/Shockey
Vivax town because of no vote
kita or rayn is scum, probably rayn
HTS is clearly scum based on her reaction to nominations
Team could be Arta + HTS
rayn would be scum too with Arta + HTS
Arta scummy because of overexplination
HTS definitely mafia
Kita is town based on Personality mafia
rayn/hts faking anger
Vivax has to be town
Will pass SL team despite HTS inclusion
Kita:
Rel's set of nominations is really scummy
Team could be rayn/Arta/xata due to reluctance of including each other during nominations
Vivax looks better after vote
rayn + HTS does not seem like a team due to interaction
If HTS is scum, then team must be HTS + SL/xata + vivax/rels, which seems unlikely based on double no from vivax/rels
Would reject xata team, willing to pass hts/shockeyy/sl
town on hts,rels,shockeyy,sl
mafia arta + xat
1 mafia in vivax + rayn
argues that arta is scum based on strawman response
arta voted yes because he was forced to based on reads
rels read on HTS is scummy
Would reject rels nominated team, would consider SL team
Coag:
Will reject Rels nomination
shockeyy:
voting yes because no coag
pancakes
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Right now here are the scum teams that I'm considering based on the above:
rayn/xata/artanis
rayn/xata/rels
rels/xata/artanis
If HTS + Shockeyy + SL + Vivax fails then obviously I'd prefer myself as the fifth, but I'm willing to acknowledge that might not be possible to get five people to agree to.
I'm going to go through rayn next probably.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Just to make sure I'm not overlooking things, there isn't a team with HTS without rayn that makes sense right?
ShoCkeyy - Can't because of double fail unless rayn is third
Artanis[Xp] - Can't because of double fail unless rayn is third
Rels - Would have voted yes to HTS team
Vivax - Would have voted yes to HTS team
If none of the four above are with HTS then
sicklucker - HTS+SL+X doesn't make sense
Xata - Would have voted yes to HTS team (???)
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 17 2015 07:14 Vivax wrote:
Oh and one more thing:
It isn't explicitly stated in the rules that two sabotages from spies show up when they both choose to fail the mission, when it's required on mission 4.
But when it isn't required and 2 spies on a wagon pick FAIL, then do we also see 2 sabotages outside of mission 4?
I'll assume yes for now.
And that means that any combination with 2 spies on a mission is impossible in this game.
A few others have brought up that when 2 spies are on the mission, the first spy on the player list sabotages and the second passes to avoid an issue like this. I'm not sure how familiar people are with this though.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 17 2015 07:09 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +Perfers nominated team of Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey followed by Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation It's about HTS. If this is true she's excluding herself from these teams every time. Which would make sense if a spy is already on the team.
But what would fit for an HTS team though?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On November 17 2015 06:39 kitaman27 wrote:
rayn/xata/artanis
rayn/xata/rels
rels/xata/artanis
If rayn + xata are indeed mafia, then that would mean that xata nominated his buddy for the failed mission 1. It seems really suboptimal to bring along a buddy with your yourself when it is about to fail because that means two out of three players are going to be held in high suspicion for the remaining four missions.
I guess rayn + rels + artanis could also be a possibility.
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EPT
