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Ok, so this was my first game hosting (sure I've co-hosted, but this was my first time running things) and things definitly could have run smother on my end.
Piddly stuff first, I fell way behind on writing my flavor. Part of this is due to getting busy in real life, part of it was loosing a lot of motivation after accidentally deleting my flavor for the 1st daypost. I do plan on going back and finishing it, and in some ways it will be nicer to do it this way as I can include more game relevant stuff. Overall I think I started writing too much for those and started to try and tie some things into what was happening in game, which is obv bad because it could have lead to spoilers. Good example was TS trying to figure out which was the Mafia kill and which was Vig shot D2.
The replaces this game are what I feel I messed up on here as a host. Eversince dissapeared after being active early D1 and I did not get her replaced till N2 which was way to long. Soon as D2 started I should have been PMing her and potential replacements to at least be ready if she did not return, as it was that didn't happen till near the end of D2. Part of this was me trying to give her the benefit of the doubt and that she would be back, but it resulted in a slot basically being empty for most of the game.
Replacing Farah was possibly a mistake, and I'll try and explain in detail both what occurred and my thoughts both at the time and now.
So sometime after D2 started I recieved PMs from both Farah and Damdred. These stated that Farah wanted to be replaced out as she was facing an increased workload and had time concerns as well as no longer wishing to play in the game. Damdred was offering to replace for her.
At the time I was at work, and didn't think it would be an issue so I agreed. After I got home I was able to catch up with the game and saw how the day had been going and how much Farah was posting as well as having claimed her role. At that point I started to question if replacing was still the right call, but I went ahead with it as I had already agreed. In retrospect I think it changed the nature of the game too much.
First of all it was a mistake to accept "dont want to play anymore" as part of the reason for wanting a replacement. It is not a valid reason to leave the game and make someone else take over for you. Understandably the game can be stressful and emotional but getting past that is part of the game. I understood that Farah has not enjoyed her experience here on these forums playing mafia, but excusing her for this reason was definitely wrong.
While the time issue may have been valid, I feel like Farah's posting indicated otherwise.
I think, in retrospect, the proper call for me to have made would have been to not accept Farah replacing out. She had been fairly active thus far that phase, had made significant posts that changed the nature of the game, and mafia was making plans around her play. Replacing Farah with Damdred made a huge impact on all of that and changed how many players approached the game.
I owe the scum team an apology because that decision may well have lost them this game. Farah's replacement coupled with Breshke's sudden disappearance, leading to his lynch, left Mafia in a terrible and practically unwinnable spot.
Under other circumstances I might issue a warning to Farah, however I did feel she was sincere in that she was done with this game (Mafia in general) and is not likely to be returning.
This was a tough call in general, and even when making it I had a feeling I was doing the wrong thing. So I take full responsibility for the results of that replacement, including any resentment from the scumteam because of it.
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On November 24 2015 06:17 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 06:06 Trfel wrote:On November 24 2015 06:04 NocturneMage wrote:
One thing I'd like to ask from more experienced players is vote analysis. That shit still confuses me mostly and any post on it I feel like I have to play 20+ games to really understand how to analyse town and mafia actions from votes.
Like I only knew that late votes = bussing was from experience in newbie 13. My only prior mafia experience was real life and everyone just throws their hands up all at once.
But trying to lay out the votes this game I will say is much much easier with the tracker but even then it's hard to tell timing motivations, even with Shining's statements on number of switches, I would have never picked up on ritoky's switching as a bad thing.
are there any guides or anything to try and pick up voting analysis? it seems so effective but so difficult to understand. fuck. It requires a ton of context. Just looking at the vote count isn't good enough, you have to consider the vote count and the thread sentiment at the time when the votes in question were made. Once you do that, it's actually really simple. You just look at the motivation and the implications of each vote, how the wagons are changing, and what the result of that is. Or you can ask ritoky, he has some really special voting analysis tricks, but I doubt he's willing to share XD nah, I get it. I'd like one more game where I can get coaching on voting analysis specifically even if I am an open player. either that or a guide or something but at least this gives me a rough start. I think for the most part I looked town enough to not get lynched, it seems like people would have just fear/tinfoil lynched me in mylo, and I felt I have made good points and read carefully all game. so that was somewhat concerning. at least if nothing else reading mafia qt, you people were threatened by me to the point you almost shot me night 1 over moosy. so I think I did something right. and for the people tinfoiling me as scum (lol Fecalfeast) I don't know what to say. my first game I read HTS's scum games when I was drawn as scum, but that didn't help me any, I think I just need more experience, but then again she has a different approach to playing scum than I do. I mean, that's really the hard part of mafia, though.
The concepts are simple, the hard part is the experience so that you can figure out what's happening and so that you don't miss possibilities.
I'd like to play with you as town sometime T.T I think we could work well together! I'll tell you who's scum and you go lynch them, okay? 
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final thing I'll comment on was the ridiculous and excessive use of meta by a lot of players. It made it very difficult to read and understand certain points on different players day 1.
I really don't know what to say, I am just very hesitant to trust meta reads on players I don't know from players I don't know and that just makes it very difficult to tell people's intentions. and I have been taught certain types of meta is faked (like Trfel's tone this game) or broken. so getting around that? that's hard for me being new around here.
that said, if anyone has any pointers for me, let me know.
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I personally don't have any problems with the replacement. You can argue over whether it's a "valid" replacement or not by the rules, but it felt okay in this circumstance for me.
It was just unfortunate for us that the replacement happened as it did, but I don't think it was wrong.
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Canada11355 Posts
Imagine if koshi was scum?
Seriously though I don't think you'll be under a lot of fire in this game. Was fairly mannered in my opinion.
Mistakes happen
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On November 24 2015 06:23 NocturneMage wrote:
final thing I'll comment on was the ridiculous and excessive use of meta by a lot of players. It made it very difficult to read and understand certain points on different players day 1.
I really don't know what to say, I am just very hesitant to trust meta reads on players I don't know from players I don't know and that just makes it very difficult to tell people's intentions. and I have been taught certain types of meta is faked (like Trfel's tone this game) or broken. so getting around that? that's hard for me being new around here.
that said, if anyone has any pointers for me, let me know. Just ignore it
If people say something you can't understand, ask them to break it down for you such that it makes sense. If they're unwilling to do so, or can't explain it such that you can understand it, then ignore it.
There are a million ways to solve the game without using meta. I think that simple meta like "is this player good or not?" works just fine for 90% of players.
It's a playstyle thing, you can use meta, or you can largely avoid meta.
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Couple other things.
Moosy's play D1 was god awful, as was his shot. He did try to swap to Farah but his "last min" switch actually happened an hour after deadline.... oops.
Seriously though Moosy, do us all a favor and learn a different way to react to being scum read. Martyring is never going to win people over, and is actively playing against your win con. I did give thought to Mod killing you if you kept it up. Also voting for yourself when you knew it was against the rules (and therefor making me edit the votes that much more)... for shame 
Farah, overall you played quite well. I can understand the frustrations you had, but honestly I think you just would need to learn to not take things personally or so seriously in game. Clearly anyone who is scum reading you is an idiot and should not be listened too.... problem solved! If you just can't seem to find the fun in these games then that's one thing, but if it just an issue with getting frustrated with other people, well maybe it's an opportunity to learn how to deal with that better.
Scott also played fairly well the little that he did D1. Someday people will learn to not read you based on your activity... and on that day you'll prob roll mafia and ruin it.
Geript prob town hero for getting 2/3 of the team D1. Damdred more or less carried town when he entered the game.
Rit played a pretty good scumgame all said and done, sorry I ruined it for ya.
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On November 24 2015 06:25 Trfel wrote:
I personally don't have any problems with the replacement. You can argue over whether it's a "valid" replacement or not by the rules, but it felt okay in this circumstance for me.
It was just unfortunate for us that the replacement happened as it did, but I don't think it was wrong.
It wouldn't have been so bad but for Bre disappearing at the same time, the combination really did it in for you guys. Had you been able to NK Damdred (like I assumed would happen) game might have gone much differently.
I'm more just concerned because the replace made a significant change in the game and I don't feel like that was the best thing for the game.
Also, this game took a month to fill and we still had 3 players replace or disappear....
Activity is slipping hard on this site.
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On November 24 2015 06:27 Fecalfeast wrote:
Imagine if koshi was scum?
Seriously though I don't think you'll be under a lot of fire in this game. Was fairly mannered in my opinion.
Mistakes happen
I honestly don't care if people want to rage at me for my mistakes or not.
The important thing is that I learn something from them and I think i have.
I'll take replacement requests much more seriously and give them some thought. In all honesty I think it's pretty sad that almost every game has needed a replacement the past few months.
Actually if there was anything else I could have done better or changed, I'd love to hear about it.
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Hm. Farah sounded super frustrated towards the end of her stay here, so I kinda get why she wanted out and why you granted that wish. The timing was a bit unfortunate with her claiming and all, but w/e.
But yeah it seems like activity dropped down a bunch in the time I wasn't here.
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Few friendly tips having written a lot of flavour as host:
On November 24 2015 06:21 Tictock wrote:
Ok, so this was my first game hosting (sure I've co-hosted, but this was my first time running things) and things definitly could have run smother on my end.
Piddly stuff first, I fell way behind on writing my flavor. Part of this is due to getting busy in real life, part of it was loosing a lot of motivation after accidentally deleting my flavor for the 1st daypost. I do plan on going back and finishing it, and in some ways it will be nicer to do it this way as I can include more game relevant stuff. Overall I think I started writing too much for those and started to try and tie some things into what was happening in game, which is obv bad because it could have lead to spoilers. Good example was TS trying to figure out which was the Mafia kill and which was Vig shot D2.
First things, try and have a rough outline or sketch on stories/flavour BEFORE the game starts. Blazinghand in Gaiden can write his stuff in 10 mins apparently but I can't do that, but having an outline helps you write more efficiently closer to deadline.
Second never tie in any in-game activity UNLESS it directly involves the player getting lynched or nightkilled. I always stick to neutral characters or players in obs qt so that there is no host wifom. The only way someone or a role from the game is ever involved is if they are flipped (lynched/nightkilled/modkilled) and I also make sure the manner of their death in the storyline is not affected by who pushed their lynch, etc.
In the event of a no-lynch or a medic/veteran save, I avoid involving any players/roles living or dead involved in the game and stick to obs qt players, neutral characters, or a first-person monologue.
You want to avoid host WIFOM as much as possible and this includes flavour.
The replaces this game are what I feel I messed up on here as a host. Eversince dissapeared after being active early D1 and I did not get her replaced till N2 which was way to long. Soon as D2 started I should have been PMing her and potential replacements to at least be ready if she did not return, as it was that didn't happen till near the end of D2. Part of this was me trying to give her the benefit of the doubt and that she would be back, but it resulted in a slot basically being empty for most of the game.
I'm not looking at your OP, but from what I see of moderators, they take one of two common approaches:
1 Replace up to night 2, afterwards is a modkill (for any reason)
2 No replacements at all, leaving town to deal with the vacant slot.
If Ever did not notify you she would be leaving, you typically should dish out the activity warnings as listed per OP and you typically PM as well as issue the warnings publically. Then it falls on the player to decide if they want to stick around.
Also a mistake I made in the past, make sure you don't swap a replacement in (I know you didn't do that this game but still) too close to EoD. That can also affect things.
No need to discuss Farah, I think you covered and realised that fine. Things happen, you learn, my first hosting experience also had roadbumps as well.
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Oh, apparently the game ended. Couldn't care less. This is the first and only game on these forums where I will believe the game was entirely lost due to the mod. So much so that I wish this game was stricken from all stats. "I don't want to play" is never an acceptable substitution reasoning; nor is "I do not have enough time". There is a precedent on these forums for never accepting that as a reason for sub. The player should have been told no or had the slot modkilled. It was further punishing because the mafia team had centered a winning strategy around counterclaiming the person who was then subbed. Further the Eversince sub is also bullshit. If that sub was going to happen it should have occurred long before the person had broken 3 rules and been gone for 4 days. The decisions on substitutions were an absolute joke and it took every fiber of my being to not ask to be subbed out of the game after the farah replacement since it was clearly a perfectly fine thing to do.
Outside of that I sacrificed too much to save breshke day 1 and his return gift was to quit (we didn't get a sub for him being afk 72 hours tho); which basically ruined a lot of my longevity in the game. And we had established a play where mafia survives day 2 and trfel cc's farah as doctor start of d3 for the win; setting up for that only to have it ruined by a bullshit sub pretty much ruined trfels chances of living long.
I really can't comprehend the decisions by the mod this game, and I am never one to blame modding. For anyone that ever hosts a game in the future; if you accept "I don't want to play" as a justifiable reason for substitution then I will flame you in game to the point where you need to modkill me and I won't give a damn while doing it because you fully deserve it.
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On November 24 2015 06:47 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm not looking at your OP, but from what I see of moderators, they take one of two common approaches:
1 Replace up to night 2, afterwards is a modkill (for any reason)
2 No replacements at all, leaving town to deal with the vacant slot.
If Ever did not notify you she would be leaving, you typically should dish out the activity warnings as listed per OP and you typically PM as well as issue the warnings publically. Then it falls on the player to decide if they want to stick around.
1 was more or less the guideline I was going with this game.
I'm leaning towards 2 now, but that might be a bit harsh as things do happen.
In regards to Ever. I don't think she has been back on the site since her last post. She did make her situation rather clear pre-game though, so handing out a warning for inactivity when in reality it was a possibility I should have been watching out for (as it had been discussed already) doesn't feel right. I think I should have been more attentive to the situation, but after my misgivings regarding Farah's replacement I was reluctant to dump in another replace right away and didn't pursue it till later.
Also, yea flavor was taking me ~ an hour per post. I did have something of an idea of what I intended to write each time, but I tend to write very free form and from a stream of consciousness, so I think I just ended up being a touch long winded.
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Also serious respect to ritoky for mentoring his teammates. Honestly some solid advice given.
Would really like to be on a scumteam with you someday, I see you work really well and play really well with anyone you're assigned with win or lose.
To those of you in the US btw, safe and happy Thanksgiving travels.
Eversince and Onegu, as was said by others, please take care of yourselves and get better soon, and Shining, sorry about your dog.
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On November 24 2015 06:59 Half the Sky wrote:
Also serious respect to ritoky for mentoring his teammates. Honestly some solid advice given.
Would really like to be on a scumteam with you someday, I see you work really well and play really well with anyone you're assigned with win or lose.
To those of you in the US btw, safe and happy Thanksgiving travels.
Eversince and Onegu, as was said by others, please take care of yourselves and get better soon, and Shining, sorry about your dog.
I play nice unless you start calling your teammates names in the QT or intentionally tanking the game, then I don't play nice.
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On November 24 2015 06:58 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 06:47 Half the Sky wrote:
I'm not looking at your OP, but from what I see of moderators, they take one of two common approaches:
1 Replace up to night 2, afterwards is a modkill (for any reason)
2 No replacements at all, leaving town to deal with the vacant slot.
If Ever did not notify you she would be leaving, you typically should dish out the activity warnings as listed per OP and you typically PM as well as issue the warnings publically. Then it falls on the player to decide if they want to stick around. 1 was more or less the guideline I was going with this game. I'm leaning towards 2 now, but that might be a bit harsh as things do happen. In regards to Ever. I don't think she has been back on the site since her last post. She did make her situation rather clear pre-game though, so handing out a warning for inactivity when in reality it was a possibility I should have been watching out for (as it had been discussed already) doesn't feel right. I think I should have been more attentive to the situation, but after my misgivings regarding Farah's replacement I was reluctant to dump in another replace right away and didn't pursue it till later. Also, yea flavor was taking me ~ an hour per post. I did have something of an idea of what I intended to write each time, but I tend to write very free form and from a stream of consciousness, so I think I just ended up being a touch long winded.
I have never run newbie games before (only veteran mini or large normal here so far) so it didn't occur to me before that newbies may not necessarily know to ask to replace out, but make sure it is more clear in your OP how you handle replacements and under what conditions.
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On October 21 2015 18:06 Tictock wrote:
Activity:
You must make at least Five posts in this thread per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. Roughly speaking, this equates to a bare minimum of one post per 10 hours. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled or replaced.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
They were clearly in the OP and not followed how the OP stated they would be. Hence why I got very upset in the QT.
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On November 24 2015 06:55 ritoky wrote:
Oh, apparently the game ended. Couldn't care less. This is the first and only game on these forums where I will believe the game was entirely lost due to the mod. So much so that I wish this game was stricken from all stats. "I don't want to play" is never an acceptable substitution reasoning; nor is "I do not have enough time". There is a precedent on these forums for never accepting that as a reason for sub. The player should have been told no or had the slot modkilled. It was further punishing because the mafia team had centered a winning strategy around counterclaiming the person who was then subbed. Further the Eversince sub is also bullshit. If that sub was going to happen it should have occurred long before the person had broken 3 rules and been gone for 4 days. The decisions on substitutions were an absolute joke and it took every fiber of my being to not ask to be subbed out of the game after the farah replacement since it was clearly a perfectly fine thing to do.
Outside of that I sacrificed too much to save breshke day 1 and his return gift was to quit (we didn't get a sub for him being afk 72 hours tho); which basically ruined a lot of my longevity in the game. And we had established a play where mafia survives day 2 and trfel cc's farah as doctor start of d3 for the win; setting up for that only to have it ruined by a bullshit sub pretty much ruined trfels chances of living long.
I really can't comprehend the decisions by the mod this game, and I am never one to blame modding. For anyone that ever hosts a game in the future; if you accept "I don't want to play" as a justifiable reason for substitution then I will flame you in game to the point where you need to modkill me and I won't give a damn while doing it because you fully deserve it.
I respect that you feel I ruined the game for you, as in many ways my decision to replace Farah was a game changer.
I'd like to point out, however, that had I said No and Farah simply stopped posting, or I modkilled her, both would have been just as devastating to town as what actually occurred was to your team. It's pretty shitty that one decision from the host can impact the game as dramatically as this decision did.
I take it you would prefer simply not using replacements?
I don't agree with what you are saying about Ever's replace. Only rule that was broken in my eyes was not voting, she fulfilled D1 activity requirements and was replaced before the end of D2. There was also a very clear extenuating circumstance in this case, one that I knew about and should have reacted too sooner but that none the less existed.
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Well I was traveling I'm glad we won. A few thoughts
Evers slot probably should of been modkilled instead of replaced. Anything past early d2 is to long a time to allow fresh insite into the game.
My replacement is not as badly done as some people make it seem. It sucked for scum me coming into a vet slot, however what's the difference between pushing me and pushing Farah? The difference is a mind set thing rather than an actual game play.
Besides that people have been subbed put for reasons of not wanting to play and time constraints which Farah had as she had 4 horridshifts the next day
Anyway good game town. And scum played well d1 and somewhat d2.
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Should always have a hard cap when you let people replace that's the only thing.
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EPT
