Newbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition - Page 98

On November 24 2015 06:32 Tictock wrote:
Couple other things.

Moosy's play D1 was god awful, as was his shot. He did try to swap to Farah but his "last min" switch actually happened an hour after deadline.... oops.

Seriously though Moosy, do us all a favor and learn a different way to react to being scum read. Martyring is never going to win people over, and is actively playing against your win con. I did give thought to Mod killing you if you kept it up. Also voting for yourself when you knew it was against the rules (and therefor making me edit the votes that much more)... for shame

Farah, overall you played quite well. I can understand the frustrations you had, but honestly I think you just would need to learn to not take things personally or so seriously in game. Clearly anyone who is scum reading you is an idiot and should not be listened too.... problem solved! If you just can't seem to find the fun in these games then that's one thing, but if it just an issue with getting frustrated with other people, well maybe it's an opportunity to learn how to deal with that better.

Scott also played fairly well the little that he did D1. Someday people will learn to not read you based on your activity... and on that day you'll prob roll mafia and ruin it.

Geript prob town hero for getting 2/3 of the team D1. Damdred more or less carried town when he entered the game.

Rit played a pretty good scumgame all said and done, sorry I ruined it for ya.

On November 24 2015 08:22 ritoky wrote:
imo from a mafia strategy perspective on a setup that is m13 vigi + doc/vet vs rb; the ideal line of play is to set up your mafia as follows:

busser - the primary workhorse of your team, needs to be TR early, plans to bus teammate on day 2, will do day 1 if necessary
bussee - person who is least favorably viewed, entire job is to survive to day 2 and get steamrolled by teammate; should try not to get vigi shot and not be an essential role.
survivor - the failsafe, your job is to play the middle, side with the bus on your teammate, and basically be the support and backup win-con if busser gets caught; also may be forced into becoming bussee. kind of your flex player.

for example one of the more clean wins using this method was me, damdred, and GB; GB was the bussee, damdred was the busser, and i was the survivor/flex.

of course every game is different and adaptations are needed, you also have to pick your roles based on how the first 24 hours of the game goes and what perceptions are made unless you wanna force it. but generally speaking in m13 if everyone understands and commits to this method and playing as a team you're gonna get to mylo probably 8 or 9 out of 10 times and then you just need to outplay or have enough cred to win from there.

On November 24 2015 08:28 disformation wrote:


Hm. Good to know. Will save that somewhere and try to remember it, should I ever manage to roll town.
TBH I so far I have put like 0 thought into long term planing and stuff, so that could screw me over, if I ever mange to roll scum.

On November 24 2015 07:14 Damdred wrote:
Well I was traveling I'm glad we won. A few thoughts

Evers slot probably should of been modkilled instead of replaced. Anything past early d2 is to long a time to allow fresh insite into the game.

My replacement is not as badly done as some people make it seem. It sucked for scum me coming into a vet slot, however what's the difference between pushing me and pushing Farah? The difference is a mind set thing rather than an actual game play.

Besides that people have been subbed put for reasons of not wanting to play and time constraints which Farah had as she had 4 horridshifts the next day

Anyway good game town. And scum played well d1 and somewhat d2.

On November 24 2015 07:19 ritoky wrote:
About ever, the moment ever failed to vote, she also broke the activity rule; which stated direct modkill no sub considered. Either edit your OP or follow your own rules or see it coming after being gone 72 hours and push for the sub with 24 hours left in day 2. If the player hasn't come back in 72 hours they aren't coming back. That was a strange situation though.

On November 24 2015 15:32 geript wrote:
A few things:

1. Re: hosting. Learning how to host is tough. Whatever you do is always wrong 99% of the time. The big thing is to learn and move forward. IDK what I would've done with Farah; I know I wouldn't have replaced Damdred into the game for another player. That said, subbing in Damdred for Farah was pretty game changing because scum had thread control somehow IDK how exactly; I don't think the sub there changed scum's ability to win, I just don't think scum adjusted well to it. Eversince should've been modkilled for sure though between inactivity and failure to vote etc.
2. Re: Trfel. As scum, you have this tendency to write shitty cases. You focus on things which are completely NAI but sound good. You push people for stupid shitty reasons. Stop. You're able to "sound good" and be convincing but I don't think any experienced player would've followed any of your pushes because they were really bad. TBH, the newer players should've picked up on this more as well.
3. Re: Breshke. You got caught on meta. Sorry bud. Even still, you need to try and put forth effort as scum. I think the major reason why people moved to default to lynch you D2 was the variety of odd things AND you were slowing in activity. Your team needs you.
4. Re: Ritoky. I think I would've caught you if I would've stayed alive longer. The no sheeping thing really was exceptionally odd; like really, really odd especially as you didn't have a hard town read on him. I was just focused on your partners more and hoped they'd figure it out on D3 when you were still alive.
5. Re: Scum as a whole. The D1 strategy was ok from what I saw: basically townread your partners when it's semi-reasonable to and push inactives. The big thing that you didn't do is set up reasonable future lynches well at all. The vig shot on VE kinda hurt you, but you guys didn't seem to have a general idea of where to go after the Scott lynch. I think it would've been more reasonable to push between Ever/Scott D1 and get Ever lynched. Since he's a coinflip regardless, you can likely then push onto scott D2. That way you get to keep crazytown Moosy helping you and you can each have 2-3 reasonable targets to push scum onto while potentially including a partner.

On November 24 2015 13:34 Tictock wrote:


I have never seen a host modkill someone for forgetting to vote, especially not in a newbie game. The rules state that voting is mandatory, not that failing to do so will result in a modkill.

My own standard, and what I have seen other Hosts do in newbies, is issue warnings to players who forgot to vote. The 2nd offense is generally when I have seen replacements/modkills become an option. Since it was apparent that Ever was no longer playing and I was already looking for a replacement I did not bother to issue a warning on the matter.

I do agree that I did not react to the situation soon enough as it would have been very possible to have replaced her after the lynch or even early D2. It is definitely my fault for not being proactive regarding the situation when it was clearly a possibility from D1.

Perhaps the rules could have been clearer. Obviously I just copy-pasted an OP and only edited it slightly for my needs. Next time I will make sure to update the OP to properly reflect my own standards used regarding these situations.

On November 24 2015 15:48 geript wrote:
From a town perspective, there were a few major things that were missed by the newer players in general some of it I posted here as TalkingDead, but there's one or two other things I wanted to say.

First off, stop trying to wifom if person X would do action Y as mafia. I saw it a bunch (even from vets like Damdred). It's really, really bad and really, really stupid. You'll almost never know the correct answer because you don't have all the information. Digging and thinking about this is something that got you guys consistently onto the wrong track.

Second, this didn't come to me until later but when I get NK'd on N1 and you guys lynch Breshke on D2 there's some good NK analysis to be done. Scum obviously aren't targeting me for being blue; I've dropped no hints about it. I haven't played "blue" in any regard. Scum is obviously killing me for a reason. When a veteran player is killed on N1 when he's not in control of the thread, he's almost always right about somebody because scum kill preference is Blue/confirmed town before people on track before good players before unlynchable players. While I hit the unlynchable good player benchmarks there's still VE and ritoky in the game who both imo hit those marks in general. I'm unlikely to be killed just because I'm right on Breshke. I don't have (and didn't have) enough thread pull to get him lynched on D1. So I'm probably onto 2 or more scum, so when I died heavily pushing both Trfel and Breshke that should be a great reason to flip Trfel.

Third, listen to what dead players said. When a player flips town (especially if they're an experienced player), what they spent time to write should be given a little extra weight. My meta reads were 100% correct this game; the only read I got wrong was on a skilled scum player (ritoky) and early on. I was hammering Trfel on very strong points (he was focused on superficial NAI shit, he hadn't made a good point, etc., etc. etc.); I was hammering on Breshke (meta). You guys looked at them but I think it was only NM who really strongly pushed either with new things. Dead players aren't necessarily right, but their opinions come from an honest place at least.

Fourth, stop looking at "moments in time" in a player. It doesn't matter who it is, there will always be points to find someone either scummy or towny. In a game of mafia, you can always make a reasonable case for whatever you look for. Look at the sum of a player's game. When you look at Trfel, he's pretty much spent the whole game trying to drag you into talking about useless shit and stagnate discussion in various ways. Ritoky was kinda the same way too. Breshke absolutely was. In general, town overall try to move the game forward somehow. Play the odds and focus on the forest instead of on the trees. There are "little moments" that are major (like ritoky not sheeping), but those should be built into a case on what the player is doing as a whole.

On November 18 2015 04:58 scott31337 wrote:
I just got back to see the votes starting on me.

When I flip town will you guys lynch Trfel tomorrow? He sure is reminding me of NSM IX I posted - so I'd appreciate you all re-evaluating him.

I'm pretty sure Ritoky, Geript, NM, and disinf are all town.

Make Moosy fucking do something, please.

Moosy/Breshke/Trfel are the lynch list right now, but I have a tingly feeling one of the vets has me/us fooled for now.

On November 24 2015 15:48 geript wrote:
Fourth, stop looking at "moments in time" in a player. It doesn't matter who it is, there will always be points to find someone either scummy or towny. In a game of mafia, you can always make a reasonable case for whatever you look for. Look at the sum of a player's game. When you look at Trfel, he's pretty much spent the whole game trying to drag you into talking about useless shit and stagnate discussion in various ways. Ritoky was kinda the same way too. Breshke absolutely was. In general, town overall try to move the game forward somehow. Play the odds and focus on the forest instead of on the trees. There are "little moments" that are major (like ritoky not sheeping), but those should be built into a case on what the player is doing as a whole.