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On November 18 2015 04:42 Trfel wrote:
There is clearly a direction in Breshke's filter, and there are also some very insightful comments. The latter is the huge part of Breshke's town play, and it's very present this game.
Looking through Breshke's filter, here's his direction:
Early question to Eversince, ends in town lean
Townread on The Shining
Town lean on geript and ritoky
Scum read on MoosyDoosy
Investigating VisceraEyes
Willing to lynch MoosyDoosy, Fecalfeast, and scott31337, still trying to figure out VisceraEyes
Votes for MoosyDoosy
The interesting thing here is that he's actually engaging with his scumreads and trying to get more information. He questioned VisceraEyes with a very sensible progression. His reads make sense and his pushes all have a followup.
My points on Breshke covered this entirely. Breshke should not be read on his reads. It's about how he interacts with and acts in response to what's happening in the thread. Him blandly asking questions that go no where and lead to no conclusions is part of his scum meta. So what Trfel has pointed towards is specifically his scum meta and Trfel is trying to paint him town for it.
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I'm going to sleep but i really think Trfel and Breshke are really good vigi shots/lunches.
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I make important points on Breshke->people vote Scott
I make important points on Trfel->people pretend it didn't happen
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I don't think she's scum #3.
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On November 24 2015 06:32 Tictock wrote:Couple other things. Moosy's play D1 was god awful, as was his shot. He did try to swap to Farah but his "last min" switch actually happened an hour after deadline.... oops. Seriously though Moosy, do us all a favor and learn a different way to react to being scum read. Martyring is never going to win people over, and is actively playing against your win con. I did give thought to Mod killing you if you kept it up. Also voting for yourself when you knew it was against the rules (and therefor making me edit the votes that much more)... for shame  Farah, overall you played quite well. I can understand the frustrations you had, but honestly I think you just would need to learn to not take things personally or so seriously in game. Clearly anyone who is scum reading you is an idiot and should not be listened too.... problem solved! If you just can't seem to find the fun in these games then that's one thing, but if it just an issue with getting frustrated with other people, well maybe it's an opportunity to learn how to deal with that better. Scott also played fairly well the little that he did D1. Someday people will learn to not read you based on your activity... and on that day you'll prob roll mafia and ruin it. Geript prob town hero for getting 2/3 of the team D1. Damdred more or less carried town when he entered the game. Rit played a pretty good scumgame all said and done, sorry I ruined it for ya.
3/3 get your record straight. I called out ritoky too bc of the lack of follow on Breshke.
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A few things:
1. Re: hosting. Learning how to host is tough. Whatever you do is always wrong 99% of the time. The big thing is to learn and move forward. IDK what I would've done with Farah; I know I wouldn't have replaced Damdred into the game for another player. That said, subbing in Damdred for Farah was pretty game changing because scum had thread control somehow IDK how exactly; I don't think the sub there changed scum's ability to win, I just don't think scum adjusted well to it. Eversince should've been modkilled for sure though between inactivity and failure to vote etc.
2. Re: Trfel. As scum, you have this tendency to write shitty cases. You focus on things which are completely NAI but sound good. You push people for stupid shitty reasons. Stop. You're able to "sound good" and be convincing but I don't think any experienced player would've followed any of your pushes because they were really bad. TBH, the newer players should've picked up on this more as well.
3. Re: Breshke. You got caught on meta. Sorry bud. Even still, you need to try and put forth effort as scum. I think the major reason why people moved to default to lynch you D2 was the variety of odd things AND you were slowing in activity. Your team needs you.
4. Re: Ritoky. I think I would've caught you if I would've stayed alive longer. The no sheeping thing really was exceptionally odd; like really, really odd especially as you didn't have a hard town read on him. I was just focused on your partners more and hoped they'd figure it out on D3 when you were still alive.
5. Re: Scum as a whole. The D1 strategy was ok from what I saw: basically townread your partners when it's semi-reasonable to and push inactives. The big thing that you didn't do is set up reasonable future lynches well at all. The vig shot on VE kinda hurt you, but you guys didn't seem to have a general idea of where to go after the Scott lynch. I think it would've been more reasonable to push between Ever/Scott D1 and get Ever lynched. Since he's a coinflip regardless, you can likely then push onto scott D2. That way you get to keep crazytown Moosy helping you and you can each have 2-3 reasonable targets to push scum onto while potentially including a partner.
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From a town perspective, there were a few major things that were missed by the newer players in general some of it I posted here as TalkingDead, but there's one or two other things I wanted to say.
First off, stop trying to wifom if person X would do action Y as mafia. I saw it a bunch (even from vets like Damdred). It's really, really bad and really, really stupid. You'll almost never know the correct answer because you don't have all the information. Digging and thinking about this is something that got you guys consistently onto the wrong track.
Second, this didn't come to me until later but when I get NK'd on N1 and you guys lynch Breshke on D2 there's some good NK analysis to be done. Scum obviously aren't targeting me for being blue; I've dropped no hints about it. I haven't played "blue" in any regard. Scum is obviously killing me for a reason. When a veteran player is killed on N1 when he's not in control of the thread, he's almost always right about somebody because scum kill preference is Blue/confirmed town before people on track before good players before unlynchable players. While I hit the unlynchable good player benchmarks there's still VE and ritoky in the game who both imo hit those marks in general. I'm unlikely to be killed just because I'm right on Breshke. I don't have (and didn't have) enough thread pull to get him lynched on D1. So I'm probably onto 2 or more scum, so when I died heavily pushing both Trfel and Breshke that should be a great reason to flip Trfel.
Third, listen to what dead players said. When a player flips town (especially if they're an experienced player), what they spent time to write should be given a little extra weight. My meta reads were 100% correct this game; the only read I got wrong was on a skilled scum player (ritoky) and early on. I was hammering Trfel on very strong points (he was focused on superficial NAI shit, he hadn't made a good point, etc., etc. etc.); I was hammering on Breshke (meta). You guys looked at them but I think it was only NM who really strongly pushed either with new things. Dead players aren't necessarily right, but their opinions come from an honest place at least.
Fourth, stop looking at "moments in time" in a player. It doesn't matter who it is, there will always be points to find someone either scummy or towny. In a game of mafia, you can always make a reasonable case for whatever you look for. Look at the sum of a player's game. When you look at Trfel, he's pretty much spent the whole game trying to drag you into talking about useless shit and stagnate discussion in various ways. Ritoky was kinda the same way too. Breshke absolutely was. In general, town overall try to move the game forward somehow. Play the odds and focus on the forest instead of on the trees. There are "little moments" that are major (like ritoky not sheeping), but those should be built into a case on what the player is doing as a whole.
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No, I didn't read scum QT. I was just going from what I remembered from reading and surmising. TBH, I don't think the Farrah push was a good idea from him. I'd try to switch a different direction I think, but I think I'd have moved him towards AFKs in general (including Breshke). It's a more natural fit aka angry about people not listening to him into angry about people not playing. Plus it gives a bit more distancing. That type of fit needs to be done in a different way.
The sub hurt you guys for sure, but I don't think it was unsalvagable. You can't really push Farrah without a CC from someone and you guys didn't respond with a CC (or a reasonably CC looking post). So he'd have to go a different direction entirely imo when that popped up.
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EPT
