EPTStudent Mafia XVI - Page 109
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Eversince
Philippines2301 Posts
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
Yo FF, I'm doing a post-by-post filter analysis on Vonthin. Promise me you'll read the whole thing. You too, GB. And you're welcome. I'm trying to save your ass here XP | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Day 5 Vote Count GlowingBear (2): Vonthin, Fecalfeast, No lynch (0): Not Voting (2): The Shining, GlowingBear Currently, GlowingBear is set to be lynched. This day ends at Saturday, Oct 31 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). Whoever has the most votes on them at that time gets lynched. Voting is mandatory. Countdown: | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
From D1 until now, I've had reasons to scum Vonthin but I never really pulled the trigger on it. Now, more than ever, it has become obvious. Bare with me, this will be a post-by-post filter analysis of Vonthin's FOUR PAGE FILTER. That seems especially short for a 4 day phase game. Let's look at D1: His first 9 posts were all playing into the fun joking phase at the start of the game. Remember this because it will come up later. Then he gets serious. + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2015 06:48 Vonthin wrote: For the most part I think he is fine, posting a lot early d1 is fine especially when not everyone has posted yet. Only thing I don't like is this + Show Spoiler + Not really caring about reading town? Doesn't sound right to me, but other than this post I don't have any problems with him. Anyways I'm playing League, will try to post in-between queues and will be more active later tonight The moment the game gets serious, he finds a reason to be suspicious of town(Moosy) and a reason to afk the game to avoid further questioning of his read. 2 hours later: + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2015 08:38 Vonthin wrote: I don't understand this game lol, nothing like the few games I've played in or obs'd. So much shitposting to provoke people or to just cause chaos, I don't know why towns people would do this At face value, this post could come from town. But it isn't. This post has absolutely no value other than to gripe about the game while indirectly throwing suspicion on everyone posting up to then. I even called out this post because of the phrasing towards the end. On October 18 2015 09:06 Vonthin wrote: I was implying the people shitposting are being scummy since I don't understand why towns people would do it this much since its not beneficial to the town, not saying they are just towns people who are shitposting. I understand some people starting off the game carefree and having fun but some posts are just useless shitposts So he admits he's scumming ALL the joke/shitposters to that point. But without naming any, or doing anything about it, he's just griping and adding to the shit. I called him out on this and asked him to expand on who he thought was shitposting and scum for it. His next post after that is a list post. + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2015 12:50 Vonthin wrote: My reads so far: Town: Scott-No shitposts, most of his posts are good questions Farah- Not much to read on but I've like what I've seen so far Glowingbear-Besides some of the banter with Moosy his posts look pro town to me, raising good points and asking good questions especially to myself Shining - See no problems with his filter cept he went with the funny opening for too long Boxer- Not much for me to go on, asked Mooser to stop shitposting was nice but I feel like the limited time thing is an excuse I have seen scum use often. More of a null read but 2 lazy to make a category just for him since he is the only one besides the 4 who haven't posted Scum Mooser- Lots of shitposting and spamming posts without any substance. This post still bothers me, even if you are town and want to spam non stop you still should care about looking town which makes things easier for the rest of us Fecalfeast - His first post was not a good way to start imo, second one doesn't tell me anything earlier though I do have some sympathy for the allergies. Kelseir - His posts were all fluff and negative for the most part Anyways its bed time So his initial scum are our conftown and 2 flipped townies. His townreads are strange, too. Following his shitpost theory, he effortlessly townreads Scott, who was coming under suspicion. Farah had not much to read on but another effortless townread. GB's posts look pro town, especially towards him. And myself. No problems with my short filter except I went with the joke phase too long. This is interesting because his first 9 posts were all part of the joke phase. Not to mention, joking for too long should put me in the shitposter category. But because GB and I were questioning him, he gives us townreads to try and divert suspicion. Note that all of these townreads are 1-2 line reads...except Boxer. Throws him in the town pile because he's too lazy to make a null pile and called his time thing an excuse he's used as scum before. It's like he's trying to convince himself he's town, when the others were effortless reads. He follows this with two useless excuse for being away/catch-up posts and another list post. This one is less organized, even though much more has happened since the first one. + Show Spoiler + On October 20 2015 02:03 Vonthin wrote: My thoughts on everyone now that I've read their filters. Moosy- Slight scum read, I didn't like his opening spam shitpost crap, and some of the reason Rels brought up after I made my post the other night. He has some posts though where I can see town motivation but the useless posts outweigh them for me. LoneMeow- I think he is town, I see clear motivation behind the things he is doing trying to get reads on people. Sicklurker-Leaning slight scum on him, lots of fluff in his filter, I don't understand his Lonemeow vote, I don't see anything to go on besides him not posting a lot to make him scum. Never said lol ez town read or that he was my top read just because I typed his read first in the list., He was just under my list for people who I thought were town for the time. I liked the posts he made and he had no fluff. My strongest town read at the time I made that list was GB. He seemed to made his opinions of me without reading my posts then read them and changed them after someone called him out on his and read them. GB- Still town, I don't see any scum motivation behind his posts. Boxer-- Null still, I understand his reasoning behind his cases but I don't agree with most of them. Has some fluff here and there and his posts/opinions vary so I don't really understand him. Scott-Besides not posting a lot, his posts still read town to me. I understand lynching for inactivity though. Rels- I think he is town, I like most of his posts up un till his recent ones with his case against Lonemeow which I think is a pretty weak case for day1. Farah--Town, Clear town motivation behind her posts, no fluff. Her case against Ever is clear and thought out and makes sense. Ever-- The big thing that leaps out to me in his filter is the big post with all the quote about his case against KSC, was a big jumbled mess and a somewhat weak case. His thoughts are all over the place in the start but It could just be him being new and reacting to the posts he sees. Shining- I think he is town, I like his posts and arguments, has some things I don't like but the things I like outweigh the ones I don't. KSC - He started off looking scum to me but he started to look town since the last day. I like his reads and questions since he stopped posting fluff and being so negative at the start Fecal- Seems scummy, posts seem half assed which shit reads that doesn't give any explanations. Not enough to go on for a Day 1 lynch. Would Lynch: Lurker, Ever, Moosy Needs more posts/convincing: Fecal If anyone has specific questions for me hit me up fast since I have to go to my afternoon classes soon. Note that all of the town reads are very simple and easy to make with one-two liners. And it's very very very strange that he'd be so right on the alignments of players like Scott and Lonemeow when they were essentially super low activity and borderline useless D1. It makes more sense to do this from a scum perspective trying to distance himself from the easy mislynches and pushing onto his own town mislynches(Fecal, SL, Moosy). But the scumreads are super strange and weak, as if he doesn't believe them. Reasons to lynch SL: Fluff, not understanding his Lonemeow vote(but didn't ask him to elaborate on it), and doesn't see anything to go on besides him not posting much. So activity. Reasons to lynch Ever: Weak case against KSC, thoughts all over the place but it could be because she is new. If you could lynch Ever(confirmed scum), why would you be looking for reasons to explain her strange behavior instead of for reasons why she is scum? Because she's his scummate. Reasons to scum Moosy: shitposting and spam(which some of his townreads were guilty of) and harping on that one post about him not caring about his spam. He also ends this list post off with an excuse for having to leave the thread quite soon(again, to avoid having to answer too many questions). Now, at this point in the thread, Rels and Kelsier and a few other town were starting to scum Vonthin hard for his lurking and taking 2 hours to put out this really short, barely explained list post that he claimed he made after reading through everyone's filters. So what does he do? + Show Spoiler + On October 20 2015 02:28 Vonthin wrote: Day 1 reads has always been the hardest for me, my first newbie game I got lynched Day 1 as town for posting like this, the other game I completed my Day 1 posting was also weak. You can go and look. As for liking Meow I don't see any scum motivation behind the posts. I understand the logic behind them and what he was trying to accomplish by trying to get reads on people and to trap BF that one time, I just don't see mafia doing that D1. As for Scott I don't think he was trying to scum up the thread at all in his posts, I don't think being lynched for inactivity day 1(unless they didn't post at all or vote but they would get mod killed anyways) isn't worth it because if they get lynched it doesn't give us much info to go on depending on the result since he has given us so little information which would give the scum an advantage and it would be like playing day 1 all over again unless we get lucky and he is actually scum. Day 2 he does the same thing then you can go for him. Anyways I'm off for class, not sure I will be back before deadline so my vote will be for Ever ##Vote: Eversince He tries to draw attention to his first town game when he was lynched for similarities to the posts here. So he's consciously aware of his meta. He even encourages us to go and confirm it ourselves. He again tries to distance himself from the easy mislynches in Meow and Scott but doesn't push any of his scum effectively. He knows he's being scummed so he AFKs a vote on his scummate, Eversince. This is over 2 hours before EoD. It's been argued that scumVonthin would never bus scumES D1 but now that we know the setup(Vig/Vet), ES being the Godfather was just as useful as BF being the Goon. The RB is their strongest role and they know that. With so much time left before EoD, and Eversince still not being on Scott(which she later switched to to save herself), it's a safe bus vote. Scum RB Vonthin can and will make this play. At best, Scott's wagon takes off and he gets mislynched. At worst, people scumming Vonthin note he voted scumES and he gets tons of town credit off the lynch, effectively removing most of the scumreads that were on him(Fecal, Rels, Kelsier, myself). And there's no way of telling if he was lurking and ready to move his vote onto Scott if ES did end up in the lead once the wagons started to consolidate into ES VS Scott. Then Scott is mislynched. Next post: + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 00:10 Vonthin wrote: Rels filter looks pretty scummy to me after that Scott push. It was way too forced and there was much better cases to vote on since Scott hardly posted. I don't understand policy lynches on Day 1, we don't get that much to look at. All we really got here is to look at the votes for Scott carefully and not his interactions with potential scum so I understand why Mafia would want to push for them since there would be less evidence for them to get caught. Though Rels did push really hard and I don't see why a Mafia would put that big of a target on his back which is somewhat making me question if he really is scum. So he doesn't care that his scumread and lynch that he voted on, Eversince, didn't get lynched. Instead, he immediately goes into scumming townVig Rels. But once again, after all the discredit aimed towards Rels and his "forced case" he ends off with Rels pushing really hard and he doesn't know why scum would out themselves like that. So it feels like he doesn't want to be the one to take the blame for Rels being mislynched if it were to happen. He was ready to have deniability. ALSO NOTE THAT BY THIS LOGIC, HE SHOULD BE QUESTIONING WHETHER GB IS SCUM NOW BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS EOD3. Why would mafia put that big of a target on his back when not 1 but 2 of his scummates are outed?? But he's perfectly fine with lynching GB today. Next post is an interaction with his scummate, Boxerfred. + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 10:17 Vonthin wrote: Besides the fluff posts in his filter he has been doing a lot of things I have liked. He has a lot of solid reads I have liked and agreed with like his one on Eversince. He has brought up some good points and has asked good questions like in the post where he called you out for skimming over the thread and how in the post you had way too much conflicting points in it. Besides his emotional/flufy start his feed overall looks towny and beneficial to the town overall. As for your second question asking about me understanding your reasoning, If you think your own case was bullshit why post it in the first place? Wouldn't a bullshit case be something Mafia would post to distract the thread in useless arguments? I really don't think it was that bullshit though since him being so spammy had little benefit to the game at the time you made your case. This is just you making conflicting points that Shining pointed out. As for Scott I didn't think they were bad enough to lynch him. His posts weren’t shitposts at the time which was a nice breath of fresh air at the time with all the other posts from Moosy and others. He asked some questions trying to get reads on people. I probably should've listed as null at the time with the amount of posts he had but his posts didn't look scummy to me so I had him under my town list. This is a classic scum distancing themselves from eachother. BF attacks Vonthin for his TR on me(which came after I made a post that there were 3/10 players towning me. Farrah, Moosy, Vonthin. And there was scum in Moosy/Vonthin.) He mentions I have fluff posts(but so do his scumreads) but then proceeds to attempt to pocket me. Says I look towny, overall beneficial, called BF out for skimming the thread and his conflicting points. And agrees with my points on ES. Then his answer about Moosy feels like another pocket attempt. He mentions again the conflicting argument I made. And then he defends his Scott townread. BF and Vonthin end up scumming eachother for a majority of the game and have this weird interaction but neither ever push eachother or case eachother. NOW ITS TIME FOR ANOTHER LIST POST! And this one really caught me eye during the reread because either Vonthin is a god Mafia player, or he's scum with perfect information. Ready? + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 10:26 Vonthin wrote: Right now my reads are: Town Rels- I thought he might be scum for pushing Scott so hard but I don't think he is lying with his Vig role claim especially as he is tryharding even with the bad push on Scott. GlowingBear - Has been spot on imo with his town play all game. Always has good questions and leads and has done a good job leading the town in general. Only things I don't like in his filter is when he says I'm voting Scott because not voting for the 2 main bandwagons is a waste of a vote then proceeds to unvote from the bandwagon. Shining - Same reasons I listed in my above post, I don't see him being scum with his filter. Farah - Her Day1 case on Ever was solid. The Day 2 cases and reads are logical from a towns perspective. I don't understand why she would say something like "this lynch is the easiest one for today" or this is the second easiest when she hasn't even read everyone's filter and made cases for the rest? Scum Fecal- Like I mentioned in my above post majority of his filter are just oneliners. He just says this person is scum or this person is town and doesn't even explain why. He never says in his filter why he thinks Scott is scummy besides just having his name under his list. Voting for someone after skimming posts and not even saying why he voted that person not even the "lol im sheeping X" is just plain scummy. Boxer- Lots of big long confusing posts that are all over the place that should've been separated into multiple posts. He makes a case against Moosy then later says it was a bullshit case? Why post it in the first place? Besides his case against Moosy(which he pushes even after calling it BS) he seems to be all over the place with what he is pushing, looks like scum trying to spread chaos to me. Also why ever say "I just scimmed the posts" and then make an opinion, this just gives you plausable deniability when you miss something that could make you look scummy. You always want to post when you have all the information. Ever- Starts off be coming into the thread spreading some shit and trying to make some easy pushes without much strength behind her. Then she just tries to defend herself with excuses for most of her filter. If you are about to get lynched one of the best things u can do is to is try to make solid reads and cases on people so incase you do actually die it will be way easier for us to find the scum if you flip town.She finally started making reads and stuff at the end of her filter which is good though. Slight scum lean for now. Null Moosy - Not too sure about him. He started out scummy with his spam and useless posts but later he starts to have a lot of good posts that I like and will bring up some good points. Wouldn't be surprised no matter how he flipped at this point. SL- Not too sure about him. Before the roleclaim he has looked real scummy for me. Him falsly roleclaiming can mean 3 things for me 1.He has retarded town play 2.He is mafia doing this to look town 3.He is a veteran trying to soak a bullet. I am leaning towards 1 or 3 but can't count out 2 with the rest of his filter. Strongest scum read is Fecal atm sooooo ##Vote Fecalfeast So his first townread is him backtracking on trying to scum Rels after the Scott mislynch because he claimed Vig. Townreads GB super hard, which feels strange now that he's trying to lynch him. Then there's that easy one-liner pocket read on me. And Farrah, another flipped town. 3/4 of these(if I include myself) are confirmed town to me. That means Vonthin is working with some pretty damn good information. Or perfect information, E.G. scum. Now the scumreads. Fecal is his "strongest" but it's only because of his oneliners and his scumread on Scott. But his next scumreads are HIS SCUMTEAM. Boxer and Ever. And the reads are explained in more depth than his "strongest" read, Fecalfeast. Now, if he really believed Ever was scum D1, and still has her on his scumlist, the town mindset here would be to not let your scumread live another day. Getting information on the second wagon is vital to figuring out the game and how/why the wagons formed on D1. But he doesn't want to actually bus his scummate Eversince unless he has to. Then 2 null reads on former scumreads because he knows he can't get them mislynched. And a vote on Fecal after all those sentences for why Boxerfred is scummy and why ES could be scum. NEXT. + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 12:44 Vonthin wrote: @FF So now that you are starting to get called out for your shit filter you actually start to play the game somewhat seriously and start to explain your cases by posting more than 1 sentence. Interesting. Also dropping my vote so fast by just looking at my last 2 games is a little weird, I mean people generally get better at the game more they play so won't their filters will be different? You noted the difference between game 1 and 2 but are content with my "shit filter" after seeing game 2 and this game are similar? Judging me town by comparing this game to a game that's from 2 years ago doesn't seem a good enough reason to drop your case on me. Feels pretty scummy to switch your cases so fast based off just this. I would like you to do what you do for this post for GB for everyone you think might be scum including myself since you thought my filter was scummy before. Anyways I said he was doing a good job leading town cause his posts most of the time controlled the flow of the game, he raises good points most of the time which leads to good discussions around them. As for 3 town being dead, 1 was from people tunneling the guy with hardly any posts and GB did try to talk people out of it by giving us other cases but not enough people listened. One was by a bad Vig Shot not really his fault there and the last one was the mafia nk which was unpreventable. Not really sure how you can blame him here. Just because a person did one thing that makes them look scummy doesn't make them insta scum. I mean looking at everyone's filters almost everyone has done at least one thing that makes them look scummy in my opinion. Also in the end he changed his vote to one of the bandwagons in the end after he couldn't get enough people to switch. I would like GB to clarify the dropping of his SL vote to Ever though, While I think that Ever was the best case for Day1 I don't understand him unvoting SL when he was quoting a FF post voting for someone? I will give you the drunk posts though, they don't look that great imo as gut feelings are never a good thing to base things on especially drunk ones. I don't want to get too much into this one but he's arguing with now conftown Fecalfeast for why he is scum and it feels like he's trying to convince FF that FF is scum. Weird. Then he starts talking about GB(remember, he wants to lynch him) and how he's leading town. But at the end of this post, he leaves a disclaimer about the drunk posts not looking good. He's leaving himself open to the GB mislynch if it becomes possible, like now. Next: + Show Spoiler + On October 21 2015 12:47 Vonthin wrote: I can't understand the grammar in this sentence. Are you saying the cop should read Ever then roleclaim and tell us the result? Or are you saying that they should've read Ever last night if they didn't. Anyways Cops should never roleclaim so early imo even if they get a right read the first night This is a very easy post to make if you know there is no Cop. The next post after this is YET ANOTHER AFK/inactivity excuse. And it was a lie. He said he would 100% be here that afternoon and evening and never showed up. I called him out on it. The next post is his response. + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 02:48 Vonthin wrote: @Shining, I will post my analysis of your filter and why I think you are town. As for my post saying I would be here last night, I initially had no plans to do anything but after my classes ended my friend invited me and some others to his place for dinner and to watch the Mets game and then I ended up crashing at his place. Good question that I think a town would ask. Another good question Here I see a towny trying to get a better read of Scott who barely posted anything Here he is trying to get more information out of me so he can get a better read on me, if he was scum I would feel he wouldn't try to get more info from me and instead just throw some shit at my previous posts. Here we have a good read on Farah, good read for Moosy at the time, and then asks Kelsier and GB questions to get better reads on them and more information out there which is always beneficial to town. The more information on peoples reads = easier to catch scum Brings up good points about Rels, who I thought was scummy at that time before his claim that he was vig. One of my favorite posts of his, brings up good points on Boxer being scum which I agree with 100% Majority of the rest of his filter is just calling out ES for being scum and most of his thoughts and questions to her are spot on and something a town would ask. He also doesn't have anything that jumps out to me and yells scum besides some of the fluff at the start of the game. I don't want to summarize this but it's basically a town case on me. With a bunch of quotes from my filter. At a time when a lot of people didn't think I was town. I'm looking at you, Rels and SL. This is the ultimate pocket attempt. He gives a reason for his AFK/inactivity and why he didn't come through on him saying he'd "100%" be around the night before. What strikes me as the worst, and outright scummy at this point, is that he went out of his way after supposedly reading the thread TO TOWNCASE ME. If he's town, and has 3 scumreads(See:FF,BF,ES), why is he wasting his time ignoring them and posting an entire TOWNCASE. It just doesn't make sense to me from a town perspective. Go find scum if you're town. Then just 1 minute later, he makes a baby list post: + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 02:49 Vonthin wrote: For my current scum reads: Moosy- Bunch of fluff all game, hardly any scum reading. Says shit like he is disinterested and would call doc to add to the chaos. Boxer/Ever- Same reasons as before SL- Filter still reads scum to me, don't care if people say thats how he played town in his last games. His roleclaim still confuses me as its either just him being retarded or him being scum to make him look town. FF- Still don't like his filter, it has gotten better though since my post and vote on him. ##unvote There goes that perfect information again. His Moosy read has now gone from scum to null to scum again. Now that we know Moosy is town, it's a prime scum move to get him mislynched. And he still has Fecal as scum, but unvotes him. Again, no sense from a town perspective. If you think someone is scum, you don't let them off the hook without good reasoning, not "still don't like his filter but it's gotten better since I voted him." And he still tries to mislynch SL, too. But the Boxer/Ever one liner is just bad. If you still have the SAME REASONS to scumread not one but TWO players, and nothing has changed, these should be your #1 priority. But he doesn't bother elaborating on these reads anymore and doesn't bother pushing or casing them. Because they are his scumteam. This is just for town credit if they get lynched. The next few posts are short so I won't quote them. He makes a paragraph about replacement talk, which is useless to figuring out the game. He then once again apologizes for his low activity and says he will be free for the next couple of days and will be more active. THIS POST WAS MADE ON OCTOBER 22ND ON THE 2ND PAGE OF HIS 4 PAGE FILTER. Next post is a one-liner vote for Moosy. "He's done nothing to make me think he is town so I am jumping on the bandwagon." Of course you are, it's a mislynch. In that same post, he asks Rels why he is scum besides his inactivity. He is so conscious of how he looks in thread and is looking to find out why he looks scum so he can change it. Then another one liner post. This is a complete change in tone and playstyle from the beginning of the game, probably because he is being scummed again. Instead of scumhunting, he is concerned with how he looks. So now that he knows he's being scummed again, it's time to prepare to bus a scummate again for town cred since he's the RB. Next post: + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 03:40 Vonthin wrote: Yeah this is shit, this isn't the first time you have posted and made reads without reading everything which in the end just mucks up the thread and makes you look scummier. So he STILL thinks BF is scum and making a shit post. BUT STILL NO PUSH. OR CASE. Next two posts are him asking SL why he wants to lynch Farrah(town, he would like this mislynch) before realizing it was already answered. But he says its not a good enough reason when there are better cases on FF and MD...both also town. None of these are BF or ES, so he's happy to not push or pursue a case of his own against them. Then some more talk about replacement, saying it could be Farrah. Then another gem: + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 04:57 Vonthin wrote: I think the MD has the highest chance of being scum but Boxer has a pretty high chance too imo so I will switch to him if we can get enough votes. Strong possibility of ES/FF/SL being scum but not as high as those 2 So he says MD and FF have the best cases agains them. Now it's MD and Boxer so he'll switch to BF if we get enough votes(aka, if he needs to bus). And ES/FF/SL are strong possibilities but not as strong as MD/BF. But his strongest scumreads after MD was FF/SL, not BF. Also, let's remember that he had ES as scum since Day 1. But he didn't bat an eye at all or get any kind of suspicious towards the Moosy lynch when ES voted on it. So N2, Rels says Vonthin is scum. Vonthin asks him why. Says he would've wasted his vote on FF otherwise. And he's been scumreading FF the entire game. So this next post is bad: + Show Spoiler + On October 23 2015 05:36 Vonthin wrote: Boxer is 100% scum. Drops his MD vote for FF for a BS reason of him thinking FF has been lurking because he didn't read the thread. Once he sees his argument for the FF vote is bad he doesn't switch the vote to MD or anyone else. He slightly defends MD but doesn't push for anyone else, if you want to defeat a bandwagon that close to the deadline you present a better case then the current one not leaving your vote on someone you thought was inactive when they wernt. Sounds like scum TMI to me trying to get town points. Boxer is 100% scum. The RB Vonthin is being scummed again during the night phase. He needs to bus. So if Boxer is scum, and FF is Vonthin's scumread, why is there no mention of both of them having FF as scum? He makes a good point about scum TMI but he doesn't realize BF is trying to lynch one of his top scumreads. And doesn't call FF town for it. Then in the next post there is another interaction between him and BF so once again Vonthin VS BF and both think the other is scum but there is no follow up, because Vonthin leaves for class after that and doesn't come back until the next day. + Show Spoiler + On October 24 2015 02:21 Vonthin wrote: If "Fara should read me based off my posting style" is not a good explanation than isn't every meta read from older games not an explanation either then? I don't think Shining is scum still, I think there is a good chance for Farah though. Boxer/Farah and not sure on last one for scum team So I'm still not scum. But he's running out of scum that isn't his scummates. So he backtracks and now one of his townreads Farrah, with no talk whatsoever, could be scum. Now his team is Boxer/Farah/?. Bus Boxer for town cred, get Farrah lynched, he wins. His next post is about how scummy ES's filter is and how one of Farrah and ES is scum. Setting up to bus in case ES is the lynch. But ES was always one of his scumreads so why the change in tone? But in his next post responding to Rels, he explains that Farrah could make a meta read on me. But she might be scum so why is he saying this? And a few posts later, this happens: + Show Spoiler + On October 24 2015 09:21 Vonthin wrote: Wow didn't know that If I started to read someone as town then they do scummy things I can't switch my opinion on them. You started off looking town by pushing the ES case which was solid but since then you have been doing less and less and just mainly tunneling on ES when you do something. After you realize ES isn't getting lynched you show disinterest and just do things like vote Moosy but don't say why besides that you hope he is scum. Then you have been dodging SL questions which he has asked you 7 times(I would still like you to answer it even with him dead as it is a good question). On top of all the posts that have been clogging up the thread with the you being able to read Shining thing which you could've ended in 1 fucking post explaining in depth why you can read him instead of just dragging it out. Anyways I don't want to lynch you today because I think ES looks just as bad as you imo and there is no way you guys are scum-mates so killing you would be a 50/50 of us losing if we choose poorly. Also I am slightly leaning towards ES being scum between you 2 because of the point I make in the next paragraph. Also if I was scum why would I kill SL when I was one of his main scum reads especially right before he just got shot, it would make me looks really bad. When no scum have been caught yet why would they kill someone that points right at them especially when there is a confirmed townie still alive unless they want people to think myself/shining/farah is scum so it will be an easy mislynch for them to win the game. Boxer has been flying under the radar for so long, same with GB as he as mainly just been sheeping Rels, going to look into GB's filter more later. Just look at Boxers filter and look at the points I made about the Moosy/FF voting and then his stupid post about how he thinks he would get NK'd when a confirmed townie is still in the game. If you guys think I am scum you need to be 100% on this and not just make a bandwagon because both KSC and SL thought I was scum. Read and analyze my filter and make a case on that. Wow, look how hard he tries and how large his post is once he gets a vote on him. Farrah made a great point here that Vonthin was TR her all game and once she came under suspicion, he flipped very easily. In this long post, most of his points are just parroting the points that SL and Rels made against Farrah. And attacking her TR on me when in an earlier recent post, he defended her to Rels, saying she could've made a meta read. It's a huge change in tone. Then he WIFOMs on the SL NK, saying it would incriminate him, since he was one of SL's main scumreads. Remember that he was one of Farrah's main scumreads, as well. Both are dead so both can't vote to lynch him. Then he flips on his GB TR because he's been flying under the radar and sheeping Rels. Then he encourages people to look at BF again. Then his team becomes GB/BF/either ES or Farrah. The next few posts are just him trying to get Boxer lynched for towncred, then GB. But this popped out. Bolded in next post: + Show Spoiler + On October 25 2015 04:34 Vonthin wrote: GB/Boxer are scum mates. I feel at this point Boxer is trying to separate himself from GB who has an excellent chance of getting lynched today. His case adding onto the points FF have made are the first case he has made this game that I don't see any scum motivation behind. GB thinks BF is town because he is trying hard to lynch him but not FF whose case and points on him are just as good as BF's. Before BF made this case on GB, GB thought he could be scum with the TMI on the MD lynch but now he is town for making a case against GB. Boxer also seems to be tunneling GB pretty hard when at this point you need to keep everyone in mind or else we lose. Third scummate is either ES or Farah. Still learning towards ES as Farah is finally starting to scumhunt and not just defending herself and ES still really hasn't done anything worthwhile besides coming in and piling onto the Farah suspicions and just quoting a GB post saying she doesn't like it. Lynch Boxer/GB today and tomorrow, get more reads from Farah and ES to determine which one of them is scum. Win game. So GB and Boxer are scummates. Boxer is distancing from GB because he could get lynched D3. But BF's case adding onto the points FF have made are the first case he has made this game that he doesn't see any scum motivation behind???? If he thinks BF is scum, the scum motivation is to bus his teammate for towncred. This is such an out-of-place sentence. And around this time, Fecalfeast made a post saying that he wouldn't be surprised if GB outed his team, plus the winning ML, to try to get the win. This is what happened here, except it is Vonthin that did it. He outed BF and ES in this post, with GB as the winning mislynch. Which is the exact situation we're in now. TLDR: Vonthin is scum. Lynch Vonthin. I'm like super tired and seeing cross-eyed so I won't go any further on post-by-post unless Fecalfeast or GB really want me to. But there a couple more points I wanted to make and address. We asked why Vonthin voted ES D1. I explained that ES hadn't voted Scott yet and had a vote to hammer Scott, which she did. At best, Scott gets mislynched. At worse, Vonthin gets town cred for bussing ES. We asked why Boxerfred CCd when GB was the leading lynch. This is because Farrah and a few of us really wanted to lynch Eversince. It was still very likely and very possible that we could've gotten the lynch onto Eversince instead, so BF made the risky to play to get us to go onto FF instead. And when it comes to BF/GB, WHY would you case your RB if you're just going to CC to save him? I really think GB was their mislynch and the opposition to the lynch and possibility of ES being lynched pushed BF into the bad play. AND Vonthin was the first to propose we lynch today before GB. FF suggested a no lynch. But Vonthin wants FF around even though he's conftown because during the night phase, FF said he was voting GB. And Rels was starting to question whether Vonthin or I could be scum. If we no lynch today, he's forced to either kill whoever will vote him or conftown FF who would mislynch GB, which he wants. ##Vote: Vonthin I am 100% convinced on this. If you have any doubts or questions, please ask me and I will explain as best I can. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
On October 27 2015 01:28 FarahBlackwing wrote: Glowing bear is right in that it doesn't make a lot of sense in that situation with scum mate afk to push the other lynch when confirmed rels was staying put with the others. Hrm, will think on it after sushi On October 27 2015 04:43 FarahBlackwing wrote: The problem in this scenario is to save his partner he has to cc the person who hasn't claimed yet when the entire day he's done nothing but push gb If fecal hadn't of claims he has no one to cc doesn't make sense These posts are why Farrah died. She was seeing the logic in GB's EoD3 actions and would've ended up lynching Vonthin. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi thats the last game I made a huge slam dunk case on last scum and Trfel didn't trust it and lost in final 3. I think I've done it again. Believe in me | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Yes. It's scheduled | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On October 31 2015 01:00 The Shining wrote: Lol I swear to God GB I'll read your case. At 18 o clock here. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On October 31 2015 01:00 The Shining wrote: Lol I swear to God GB | ||
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
On October 23 2015 05:03 GlowingBear wrote: The "play to win" isn't a rule anymore, I suppose Pretty Hypocritical of him there if he is town cause he is definitely not trying or playing to win. I will make a more indepth case like the post you made today with all the stuff I have already posted and more like some VCA. Also now that you made this case against me all GB is gonna do is sheep it and still not do any work and just skate and win the game. Also the fact that you are 100% positive that I'm scum when you said his filter looks just as scummy as mine and that he hasn't been trying is pretty laughable considering this is lylo. As for my 4 page filter and early game reads and lists being poor I don't have any more excuses, I just tried to do what I did in my last game but its been hard without being 100% sure about people with my cop reads. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/433102-newbie-mini-mafia-l?user=Vonthin is my last game for reference. Majority of your case are just overeading things since you have thought I was scum for a lot of the game and its clouding your judgement on GB. Also I wasn't the first to propose we lynch today, I was just the first person to vote for someone. GB said we shouldn't NL first and for good reasons. If we did NL then the confirmed town will just get shot since GB is the RB and it doesn't help at all. Plus why NL when I have solved the game for awhile now. Also Rels looked pretty sure that GB was mafia, he was just questioning someone else asking them if they really think me or you was scum and you misread it. Even if you think I am 100% scum please go do what you did with my case for GB, I don't see how you will think he is town with all the shit he has posted after you do it. | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Unfortunately I'm going to a party in like 15 minutes. Let me see if I can finish it before that. | ||
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
On October 31 2015 08:33 GlowingBear wrote: Vonthin: why is the shining town? Lots of evidence that you are scum + a filter that looks pro town. Also if he was scum I don't know why he would make that giant case against me. He could've just kept his vote on you and the game would be over for him with his victory if he was scum. Why have you thought he was scum all game long? | ||
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
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