[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience

On October 20 2015 03:16 ritoky wrote:
/in

On October 20 2015 04:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:

why not a day earlier start?

On October 21 2015 01:54 Xatalos wrote:
I have zero idea what the last two comments even mean >.>

On October 22 2015 06:56 Xatalos wrote:


??? :D

On October 22 2015 07:43 Xatalos wrote:
When you stare into the Chupazi, the Chupazi stares back.

On October 22 2015 08:34 Hopeless1der wrote:

3th?

On October 22 2015 08:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
you english ppl are too bad.

On October 22 2015 09:18 gumshoe wrote:


How old is Gb? Night classes maybe?

Gb you legal?
To be honest I wouldn't care about something so small If I hadn't felt pressured as mafia to tell a similar lie before / : something about being at the park with mah doge all day.

On October 22 2015 09:43 gumshoe wrote:


probably a moot pursuit then ) :

while your here what do you think of xatalos? Personally I feel as if he dedicates alot of talk to the rng thing without actually looking into what it meant about Bh. Burning filter basically. I also get the feeling that hes using my lurky history as a way to waffle on me, thereby positioning himself to go ether way depending on town.













He eventually seems to settle on me bieng town, but by then I think the general sentiment was favoring me? if that makes sense / : he just seems very wishy washy, which we all are somewhat at the start of course, but his posting comes off as very repetitive and pointless. He talks about the rng vote, but doesn't infer any reads from it, he jokes alot about the rain vote but again doesn't derive anything from it. Hes just commenting on stuff that means nothing, and cautiously testing the waters with his uncertain reads.

would also explain his weird early interaction with chrom, someone hes kinda pushing but not really.

I'm open to bieng wrong this game, Xata may very well just be perplexed by my bieng really active, but for now I'm reading him as red / :

I go bed now. good night : D

On October 22 2015 11:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
who is reading bh town?

On October 22 2015 12:56 yamato77 wrote:
You guys are making it difficult to be objective and all with the calling me mafia and stuff.

On October 22 2015 13:23 yamato77 wrote:
I don't think Vivax is mafia.

I think Xatalos has some questionable parts of his filter and I agree with gumshoe to an extent.

I do not think gumshoe is mafia very often (given his play this game).

I think marv has changed how he plays (quite obviously). Don't know what to make of that quite yet.

I think rayn is leaning town but it's hard to say with not much having happened.

Most others are a big ?, including yourself.

tl;dr it's been 20 pages and 8 hours and no reads are confident.

On October 22 2015 13:27 Chromatically wrote:
Meta is hard, I don't think I got much from ritoky's at all but maybe that's just because he hasn't posted enough yet. He's usually really trolly as town, but he does it a bit too as mafia and there was a town game here where he was pretty serious anyway so I don't think it says much.

This was from his mafia game here though:

and he used the same picture here so I think that's pretty much a slam dunk case.

On October 22 2015 14:22 ritoky wrote:


played 1 game with you, you spent all game calling me mafia for posting nonsense, i spent all game calling you mafia. you were mafia, i was town. so i think that's pretty much a slam dunk case.

On October 22 2015 16:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:

why exactly?

On October 22 2015 22:08 Chromatically wrote:

What do you mean with this post?

On October 23 2015 02:12 Chromatically wrote:

I don't see how it would dunk you in any way..? Are you talking about the post with the picture where I said "slam dunk" or the long post I made?

On October 23 2015 05:16 Onegu wrote:
Slam where did you go, I miss you so. Feels like its been forever.

Slam we were scummates and our game got canceled. Will you still be my friend this game?

HIJOLE!!!

On October 23 2015 05:28 Blazinghand wrote:


He makes a perfectly reasonable set of statements.

"Blazinghand has a meta of using RNG as town"

"...however, this doesn't mean we should automatically assume BH is town. BH is a tricky fucker, and is notoriously a tricky fucker. He has done all kinds of things as scum that nobody thought scum would do, like pretend to get dumped, be depressed, death in teh family, and so on. He will do anything as scum to win, he's so sexy and good at this game. BH, you are so cool. This is known by all people"

These are both reasonabl eand true statements

On October 23 2015 05:32 Blazinghand wrote:



Ok but part of what's going on here also is not everyone has seen firsthand what I'm capable of. Most people hear a story or two and think "oh, that BH guy must be pretty decent. He'll do anything to win. I guess I better count this well-known-to-BH meta evidence less strongly". Not everyone is like you, not everyone has seen the true darkness and depravity I am willing to perpetrate to win as scum. I've literally made peopel feel IRL feelings for me, feel bad, feel hurt, feel worried, want to reach out to me out-of-game, just to not get lynched for one day as scum. I've sunk to depths that are BEYOND most people's comprehensions. You know me, rayn. You know not to trust RNG as a town-tell. PEople hear that, though, and they think "okay, don't trust it AS MUCH as I normally would", because they don't KNOW. They ahven't gazed into the abyss. They are still sane.

They can still be saved.

You, though... you've seen what I'm capable of, and perhaps have forgotten what it is like to be normal, to not know me as you do

On October 23 2015 06:00 Xatalos wrote:
Slam... Damn Slam :D He truly fooled me last game, so I'll refrain from townreading him as easily this time around.

On October 23 2015 06:04 Hopeless1der wrote:
Ritoky, what's your read on gumshoe now?

On October 23 2015 06:11 ritoky wrote:
damn, sorry slam. didn't know me acting like you at times took the fire out of it for you. i will stop so it can be your thing again. my b yo was just having fun with it.

On October 23 2015 06:17 Hopeless1der wrote:

He's definitely null off of the RNG. Thats the entire point. BH has literally said that you have to look at what he does with it, not the fact that he did it. Once done, he's committed to it, even if (and rayn?) are scum he's trapped. All of his followup with respect to how true and great and protown it is have no bearing on his alignment.

His concern with ritoky pulling up games to draw a conclusion make them both townyish to me, but thats not really much considering the subject matter. BH is firmly null atm.

On October 23 2015 06:24 ritoky wrote:
i think having a child restored some of my faith in humanity and made me significantly worse at this game. i no longer assume everyone is a bastard coated bastard with bastard filling. makes things rough.

advice to all people who wanna get good and stay good: don't have a baby.

On October 23 2015 06:38 ritoky wrote:


it's actually equally as likely, so i disagree with your premise entirely.

it's actually really simple. i mean i guess it's pretty simple for me cuz i read like 10 of BH's games in the recent past so i could accurately impersonate him. here's your guide to reading BH:

Did he RNG immediately @ the start of the game: if yes -> 80% chance to be town; if no -> 80% chance to be mafia

Did he push the RNG target or just leave it there like a dead fish: if push -> 95% chance to be town; if dead fish - 50% chance to be mafia

Did he gather reads from people arguing with him about why they are better than RNG: yes - DING DING DING town; i don't know he hasn't given reads - 75% town; no - 50% town

On October 23 2015 06:38 Xatalos wrote:
I mean, the votes were given to him before he had even made a single post.

On October 23 2015 06:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:

It's actually not.

I believe this is not a newbie game so you are just straight out lying.

On October 23 2015 06:40 Hopeless1der wrote:
ritoky, where do you stand on gumshoe?

On October 23 2015 06:47 yamato77 wrote:
Townreading BH for RNG might be the stupidest thing I've seen in this game yet.

On October 23 2015 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##unvote
#vote ritoky

not gonna change my vote. ritoky is scum.
good night.

what a bunch of crap he is writing.

On October 23 2015 06:55 Xatalos wrote:
BH

On October 23 2015 16:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Because you are pushing a bad reasoned read.
Because the way you defend yourself is exactly what you do as scum.
Because you said you reda the thread but you actually didn't, not even close.

On October 23 2015 07:08 yamato77 wrote:

You're sending me ramen <3

I fucking love ramen.

On October 23 2015 07:09 yamato77 wrote:

I actually see what he's saying with Hopeless.

Slam I don't really agree on.

Ritoky not dank enough to be mafia so I trust this list

On October 23 2015 07:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:

yamato i am pretty sure GlowingBear is town here. Basically he says really scummy shit that makes absolutely no sense as mafia, because he doesn't really know what to do at all (i assume). Here he has some sort of a thought process going on in his head. Basically it's highly unlike he is scum here.

Same goes for Hopeless, he tried to do stuff. He is just doing it in his own way that looks scummy to basically everyone.. always.

I am really really sure ritoky is mafia. I am also quite sure Slam is scum because of process of elimination. Xatalos is probably just really fucking dumb atm, but at least his explanation to BH thing makes some sense, unlike ritoky's. ritoky basically argues that Blazinghand is town based on illogical arguments, or arguments that are easily proven wrong. Like even if he believes those arguments are true the read is shit and arguing the read is good for those things is something that a townie never does.

Last scum is probably Blazinghand or Onegu. I kinda think it's Onegu atm, since Blazinghand seems to be trying to do something and getting something out of his shennies at the start of the game. I don't believe gumshoe is scum, basically his reacation towards me doesn't make any sense as mafia. He is right in that i suually pressure him every game we are in and i know he acts differently when he is scum than when he is town. I just don't see him being scum here.

Vivax is basically his own paranoid town self with a portion of good logical thoughts. marv is almost definitely town. you are almost definitely town. Chromatically seems to be the most level headed person in this game. It's like not totally out of question he is scum here but most likely he is just town as his posting suggests.

On October 23 2015 16:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Because you are pushing a bad reasoned read.
Because the way you defend yourself is exactly what you do as scum.
Because you said you reda the thread but you actually didn't, not even close.

On October 23 2015 07:12 ritoky wrote:


slam cuz my secret meta read on him that hasn't failed me and is way better than the chupazi/hjole read.

hopless cuz he has the funniest post in the thread imo when he said "can you tldr your tldr".

On October 23 2015 07:12 Xatalos wrote:
Has anyone played with town rayn in like the last months? Has he become this... "shifty", hard to grasp as town too?

On October 23 2015 07:13 marvellosity wrote:

i thought you told me ritoky was town?

On October 23 2015 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:

yeah that was yesterday.

On October 23 2015 07:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:

no

On October 23 2015 07:21 ritoky wrote:


y'know, gonna be honest here. you're the most underwhelming player that people tell me is good on these forums. i just don't see it; maybe i am the one who is so bad i can't comprehend your greatness; but i don't think that's the case.

On October 23 2015 07:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yamato i just don't thee scum GB here.
meh.. i guess i can be wrong here but idk. I just don't see it.

On October 23 2015 07:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Yeah as i said that was yesterday. I clearly pointed out (before going to bed) that i dislike Xatalos' & ritoky's reads on BH which i had missed earlier as i was tired. My townread on ritoky before was not based on that at all. I jsut didn't pay attention to his posts because i didn't think he was saying anything interesting. It's like how i treat players who don't say anything interesting (unless something changes)... in every game.

There is absolutely nothing contradicting there, i re-evaluated his posting after i had slept and dug up further and came to conclusion he is mafia, because:
1) His read on BH is bad.
2) His reasoning for his read doesn't even make any sense.for example; he says there is 80% chance BH does this rng thing as town, so there is actually then 20% chance of BH doing that as mafia - by default. When people tell his that "BH could totally do that as mafia" it doesn't affect his read at all. In fact he just pushes the townread further with more illogical arguments, like trying to argue random lynching is as effective as not random lynching, which is a straight out lie, and doesn't even have anything to do with BH's alignment.

So yeah, there is that. That's basically the only thing he has done in this game in addition to now bitching at me.

On October 23 2015 07:50 yamato77 wrote:



Marv... agreeing with me?

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

On October 23 2015 11:21 Chromatically wrote:
I really really do not like this Xatalos read on rayn. Look at this:





It's like Xatalos really really wants to call rayn mafia but never actually does. He's just kind of throwing suspicion out there about "an uncomfortable feeling". And then he asks people if rayn has been "shifty"? Like he's looking for approval from other people before he actually calls rayn mafia. Xatalos does end up voting rayn, but never confidently says that he's mafia or even probable mafia. Just non-committal "he just may be scum" and "uncomfortable feelings".

What Xatalos calls "shifty" and "unexplained read changes" really is just that rayn flipped his read on ritoky (and maybe his Hopeless read?). Why doesn't he just say that then? Why ask "has town rayn been shifty?" when you could ask "does town rayn flip reads?" The first one paints rayn in a much worse light, but the second one is much clearer and more accurate to what's going on.

In addition, I honestly don't see how flipping a read is even a scum trait. Mafia don't do 180s on their reads for no reason, but town will totally 180 on reads if they reevaluate and think that they used to be wrong. As scum it's so so easy to just stick to your reads no matter what and not have to deal with the suspicion of switching them. It's possible that a townie just disagrees with me on this, but I don't think it's at all accurate to categorize it as "searching for an angle of attack". And I don't think it's at all a reasonable reason for a vote.

These just gave me a really bad feeling. It felt like he's trying to throw suspicion onto rayn without actually attacking him.



I mentioned that I was probably going to flip my read on Xatalos, so here it is. For some reason I didn't pick up on any of this the first few times around, but it started to jump out to me.

I completely agree with what gumshoe said about Xatalos' reads being very waffly:
+ Show Spoiler +
He consistently keeps his options open. Really, go read his filter and count how many strong reads you see. He has one strong read on Vivax that he posts and that's honestly it (apart from his town feel on BH). Look at how much he says "maybe this" and things like that.

Like what is this? yamato is "disturbing" and he MIGHT move his vote there? It's very non-committal.

If you don't read anything else, look at this post and keep reading from there. He says the exact same waffle about me and yamato THREE TIMES IN A ROW. This doesn't make any sense from a town perspective, but it does make sense from the perspective of a mafia who's trying to be active and show that they're "thinking about the game".


I also didn't like Xatalos' opening posts after reading them again. He starts by asking Vivax where to find a comic, and then spends a few posts talking about randomness and the Random class? Mafia often have a hard time entering the thread, and talking about irrelevant stuff like that is an easy way to do it. He posts a lot and appears active, but very few of the posts contain content. Some examples:



(This one appears relevant but actually says nothing about yamato, more waffle).


Also his townread on BH doesn't make much sense like rayn has already said. Maybe he's just town and made a bad read (imo) on non-alignment indicative stuff, but I think there's a reasonable chance that as mafia Xatalos just threw out a townread without thinking about the logical town reasoning for it.

On October 23 2015 12:21 Blazinghand wrote:


righteous

On October 23 2015 19:37 Vivax wrote:
I suppose he might have changed his style over time cause everyone found out that he's not actually a blithering nutso but a very articulate man who blasts chicks with warm air for a living.

On October 23 2015 21:50 marvellosity wrote:
i came to my conclusions by being awesome and not-xatalos

On October 23 2015 22:43 marvellosity wrote:
i mean it's quite clear from the post i quoted that i took umbrage to how he originally attacked rayn and how i viewed his followup

am i supposed to find you scummy because you are also suspicious of the same person?

what is this rubbish?

On October 24 2015 01:04 Hopeless1der wrote:
Surefire ways to get lynched:

1) Tell marv he cant do it.

On October 24 2015 01:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
For the record, why Xatalos' read on me is shit and why i think he is scum is this:

This is a complete mischaracterisation of my play. I never ever do this. I never do this as town, i never do this as mafia. I have never changed my read on anyone without a reason or a "reason" (as mafia). I always have a reason for why i post the things i do.

I have clearly explained every single read change i have had in this game (which is basically GlowingBear, Xatalos himself and ritoky). I went onto a long conversation about ritoky earlier, and at that time apparently there was nothing wrong with it for him. But now again it is a reason for scumreading me? I have also explained why i changed my read on GlowingBear, at that time there was nothing wrong with it for him? It should be really easy to see why i think Xatalos is mafia - or at least a bit earlier - why i reconsidered my read on him.

Slam's points on me are literally shit, and as marv pointed out Slam just decided he calls me mafia nad then started quoting my posts and called them scummy. All of his points are unture, what he says i have for example done in the last couple of games -- i have literally did the same thing (which makes me scumread GB too, as he should know Slam's points are shit, yet he doesn't address them -- as i just acted towards GB the same way in the last two games). Somehow Xatalos thinks those points are good? Bullshit. Bull-fucking-shit.

Another thing is he is trying to paint my read on him as OMGUS when there is nothing even close to that. I have actually reasons to think he is scum. He isn't trying to figure out my alignment, and to be honest this is kinda funny because all he says is "he did the exact same thing last time he was mafia and i caught him", funnily enough this is the EXACT case i myself made on rsoultin in that game. He is also not not even re-considering his read in any way when marv, who is the only person who can ever read me correctly all the time, heavily disagrees with his read. Instead he decides that we must BOTH be mafia. I find it almost impossible to believe that's what he actually thinks.

There is basically no way Xatalos thinks i am most likely to flip mafia here. I could understand he thinks i am mafia, but not like this, and not for the reasons he pulls out of his ass. He is basically not a person who "yolo's" a scumread like this without digging further into it. If he did, he would see that:
1) my reads are not actually unexplained, nor are the changes on them, it's really easy to see why i do the stuff i do
2) me acting like "i did as mafia" is a pure mischaracterisation of my play.

The read is wrong and lazy as fuck, and misses all the reasoning for me to do things i do (which btw is there if you read closely).

On October 24 2015 01:11 marvellosity wrote:
marv didn't miss that, marv wasn't talking about that.

On October 24 2015 01:14 GlowingBear wrote:
I think best lynch today is BH. We all agree he has been lackluster and we have yet to see him being suspicious of a player. I don't remember him having scum reads

On October 23 2015 23:31 marvellosity wrote:
1. marvellosity
2. Vivax
8. Xatalos
13. yamato77

3. Blazinghand
4. gumshoe
6. Hopeless1der
7. raynpelikoneet

9. Onegu
12. ritoky

5. GlowingBear
10. Chromatically
11. Alakaslam

groups are in no particular order (e.g. rayn would be higher)

On October 24 2015 01:17 Hopeless1der wrote:



So I assume this is the issue


ritoky had an early "textbook" mafia read of gumshoe (as per chromatically), gumshoe posted more, I wanted to know where ritoky's read ended up because he hadnt updated it and needed to be prompted a couple times. In general, my reads for those three are gumshoe>chromatically>ritoky (in order of townyness)

On October 23 2015 23:35 marvellosity wrote:
literally just explained my feelings about Chrome, GB.

other than your read on Vivax i can't really think of anything that would make you town. so all that's left is a bad read on vivax.

On October 23 2015 23:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On October 23 2015 23:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like i literally want people to vote for either me or Slam.
Then, whichever gets lynched i (or other people) will tunnel Xatalos for the rest of the game.

On October 23 2015 23:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:

He is also most likely mafia.
If someone can't understand i am town when the only person who can ever read me is saying i am town, then he has to be scum. It's literally bullshit i am his top scumread. His "last game i found him out" is literally bullshit because i have actually talked about this with him already and his case on me even there was bullshit, based on misrepresentations.

There is no way he actually thinks i am scum.

On October 24 2015 01:38 Vivax wrote:


I'm still quite keen on lynching GB for his flailing about the scumreads on him. Usually when scum is pressured like that, this is one of the kinds of poop that comes out: They compare themselves to a random guy who did something similar complaining that he's not being scumread instead of them.

On October 24 2015 00:22 marvellosity wrote:
GB you are not Onegu.

case against me debunked.

ez game ez life.

On October 24 2015 01:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Here is the first thing that made me think Slam is mafia (after my initial vote -- that was really just for PoE and for pressure):

Here is a post Slam makes:


This is however not what he thinks as town. This is what he thinks as town:


Therefore his "defense" on himself makes sense from scum perspective, as he thinks noone can catch him if he is scum. It also makes him "being able to do whatever he wants".

He later on decides i am scum for:

this is not what i am doing, however much Xatalos wants to claim so. It doesn't make it true.


this is not "opinion all over the place". It's a very clear post that follows my filter and my thought process 100%. There is nothing "all over the place" here. Literally.


Now this is the most interesting part. Again i have literally done the same thing in my last two games:
Battle of the Drams - where i ignored GlowingBear's and rsoultin's posting until they started saying something interesting / scummy -- that's what i have been doing lately because i don't want to argue with everyone and i can actually trust certain players' reads on them.
Firefly - where i ignored GlowingBear (until yamato called him sure scum) and Cake -- for similar reason than in Drams.

Now Slam even played in the earlier game and i actually did many 180's in that game, i even flip-flopped my read on himself for like two days, because i couldn't decide if he is mafia or not. The point here is Slam should know i do the stuff he claims i am mafia for as town -- and says i don't do it.

Not gonna fly Slam, you're scum.

On October 24 2015 00:34 Xatalos wrote:


It is if I have anything to say about it.

On October 24 2015 01:49 Vivax wrote:
Oh Slam with the seniority argument.

I remember how I used that in my first games, trying to incite a revolution of the masses to overhtrow the vet government.

Then I got hanged, torn and quartered.

On October 24 2015 00:45 marvellosity wrote:

you're an idiot.

On October 24 2015 00:59 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'm gonna sheep marv/rayn. Hoping yamato/onegu show up because they said they would eventually.

##vote: Alakaslam

On October 24 2015 02:03 Vivax wrote:
But rayn and marv are arrogant, I don't see the value in reinventing the wheel there.

On October 24 2015 03:09 Blazinghand wrote:


So Slam, if I catch your dirft correctly here, your scumread on rayn goes like this: rayn has been changing his mind a lot, and you expect him to be more tunnelly as town. (This is effectively what Xat said; the xat posts that chrom has posted are mostly not painting xat in a positive light, or presenting the rayn case; so it's hard to see what you're getting at there). Is that all there is to you rayn case, or is there more to it?




You don't like rayn's vote on GB. Why?

On October 26 2015 22:19 Xatalos wrote:
Uh oh.... I hope the hosts are around before this gets out of hand...

Slam, prolly better just to complain in ObsQT / post-game..

On October 26 2015 22:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:

dude he PM'd me about my post from the Caller game.
You're fucking paranoid.

On October 26 2015 22:28 Vivax wrote:
Is that a truck in front my window? Oh wow there's a truck in front of my window.

On October 26 2015 22:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
can we play mafia here?
can the player who is dead get the fuck out of this thread?

On October 28 2015 07:38 Blazinghand wrote:


Like, in a way, I'm really happy rayn is dead, even if it means one more townie is gone. it means we don't have to listen to him any more. He somehow took a bullet! Thanks, rayn. Thanks for being dead. Even better, he can't respond here when I say: rayn, it's so good that you're dead. so good.

hue