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[M][N] Mini Mafia: The (kinda) Vanilla Experience - Page 9

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 13:57 GMT
#845
Well last game rayn was scum (on Vendetta Strada) and I correctly pushed his lynch and got him lynched. I'm pretty sure I also correctly townread him when I was last town with him. Mostly it's been me as scum and him as town recently, though.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:01 GMT
#847
I can't say I'm an expert on rayn, but I'll just say that I feel his current game is closer to his scumgame on VS than anything else.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:05 GMT
#848
On October 23 2015 23:01 marvellosity wrote:
xatalos is pretty obviously town i think because if he was mafia he'd just townread me.


Haha... Ah, I guess you're referring to our PM discussion after my miserable semi-push against you as scum...
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:08 GMT
#850
Yeah, I think I mentioned that I'd just straight away townread you if I rolled scum against you next time. But since I said that, would I really do it after all? The WIFOM is real.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:17 GMT
#854
On October 23 2015 23:10 Chromatically wrote:
So I assume no one agrees with me on Xatalos then?

Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 21:59 Xatalos wrote:
Ah, and Chromatically... Not sure yet. He's kept being pretty reasonable / constructive all game, but I don't really think there's been much (if anything?) I've agreed with him on... And that case against me is just, pretty much describing my town meta features as scummy points. The stuff he's saying about me is null at worst. And then I'm confidently scum? I've received a couple of cases like that (from scum) before. Most notably the case that called me a "drama queen" or something (LOL). That was a funny case. Anyways, it feels kind of like those cases, nitpicking null/towny things and painting them in the worst possible light. It doesn't even feel like an actual case, more like an effort to try and find *somethjng* (anything) bad about me... And failing, but calling me scum regardless.


Here are the basic points I made: Xatalos was active without posting anything particularly in the beginning of the game (mafia do this because they want to appear active but have trouble posting content), waffling on votes (mafia do this because they want to keep their options open and not ignore their partners), throwing suspicion on rayn initially (mafia do this to make people look worse than they are), weird read on BH (mafia throw out townreads without thinking about why). The last two points are meh, but the first two I think are pretty clearly scum traits and certainly not "null at worst" from any perspective. The filter length defense is the only good one I've heard, but filter length is not everything.

If people really don't want to lynch Xatalos, I'll obviously consolidate onto someone else. But I do think I made a strong case and I feel good about it.


I mean... Posting a lot (including filler) is my town meta. As scum, I select more carefully what I post. Waffling is something I will do as scum, but also as town, so it's not really.... a point. I think my read on BH is decent, do you disagree with it? Even rayn finally admitted it wasn't meritless (at least "from my perspective" lol). Not sure why scumhunting is scummy again. It's not like I showed suspicion towards rayn baselessly.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:20 GMT
#855
On October 23 2015 23:08 marvellosity wrote:
my reasoning was that you're a bit of a pussy as mafia and it would be much easier for you just to townread me when if you are mafia you know there is a 0% chance of me ever getting lynched.

the fact you pushed me before under similar circumstances weakens that as a heuristic though

although i doubt you'd make the same mistake twice


Btw can you really say I'm a pussy as scum after that game where I and Artanis bussed each other all game? That was fun.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:22 GMT
#856
Well, I guess it's not entirely untrue in the meaning of going against strong players. But like you said, I've done that too.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:27 GMT
#859
Hm... There's actually only 6 hours remaining...

What the heck are all those votes on Vivax? He's definitely not the lynch today. In my experience, his scumgame is entirely different from this. Very lurky and overall uninvolved.

I don't really think GB is the best lynch either.. I'd much rather lynch rayn first, since GB is unlikely scum with rayn IMO.

Yeah, I'm still leaning towards rayn.

Chromatically, where would you "consolidate" if not for me?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:31 GMT
#862
On October 23 2015 23:24 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 23:20 Xatalos wrote:
On October 23 2015 23:08 marvellosity wrote:
my reasoning was that you're a bit of a pussy as mafia and it would be much easier for you just to townread me when if you are mafia you know there is a 0% chance of me ever getting lynched.

the fact you pushed me before under similar circumstances weakens that as a heuristic though

although i doubt you'd make the same mistake twice


Btw can you really say I'm a pussy as scum after that game where I and Artanis bussed each other all game? That was fun.

yes, bussing each other is pussy way out because it means you don't have the balls to tunnel a townie

gonna have to try meta Chrome at some point. My evening cleared up (i was gonna be afk all weekend and spring that on you guys when i finished work, but my plans fell through)
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2015 13:59 Chromatically wrote:
Alright yamato is off the lynch list for me. I have a hard time seeing him faking anger about getting scumread by people for this and I don't think he's just making up his reasoning there as mafia. Both of those last posts feel really town to me.

Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 00:26 Chromatically wrote:
I don't really see why GB is mafia for that read rather than it just being a bad read.

Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 02:47 Chromatically wrote:
On October 23 2015 02:41 marvellosity wrote:
pretty hard to shake my townfeels on rayn when he comes into the thread saying he has 2 townreads and no mafiareads when at that point i had 2 townreads and no mafiareads and the 2 townreads were the same as mine.

I like this post a lot, I get a strong town feeling from this.

I don't like any of these posts much. I don't think the anger thing is a good reason to townread yamato. I made an unexplained punt vote on GB and it reads as a bit of a weird defence. I'm also not sure that Chrome should be getting strong townfeels from the post i made rather than others/the whole body of play.

Also have this nagging feeling where Chrome described ritoky as picking up on "textbook mafia tells" and he's essentially doing the exact same thing with Xatalos. I don't like it. I understand picking up on Xata's read progression on rayn, I think it's possibly reasonable to be suspicious of that, but the rest of it I don't think I like much.


Well yeah I guess it's a bit odd... He basically suspected ritoky for making a reasonably similar case as his own latest case.... I mean the way of taking general scum traits (keeping options open etc.) then just finding some post where it could be applied and base the case on that.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:42 GMT
#874
On October 23 2015 23:31 marvellosity wrote:
1. marvellosity
2. Vivax
8. Xatalos
13. yamato77

3. Blazinghand
4. gumshoe
6. Hopeless1der
7. raynpelikoneet

9. Onegu
12. ritoky

5. GlowingBear
10. Chromatically
11. Alakaslam

groups are in no particular order (e.g. rayn would be higher)


Well, it warms my heart that I'm so high. Nice to be a pussy I guess?

[image loading]

Anyways, you'd really have to do better than to claim Slam's reaction to a vote / his attack on rayn was weird. I basically got the opposite picture from how he went about it.

Can't really disagree about the option of Chromatically.

GB... Doesn't really seem like the best lynch today. He's kind of null to me, but rayn's odd behavior towards him (hard defense -> hard attack) doesn't really seem like how he would treat a teammate. More like how scum rayn would treat someone he knew was town. So that basically pushes him out of my comfortable lynch range atm.

Is there really nothing else for you to defend rayn with than his initial agreement (not really) with your early reads? Even if his reads were actually quite different back then, unlike you said, and a HUGE AMOUNT of stuff has happened after that?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:50 GMT
#886
On October 23 2015 23:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Chromatically's oplay is completely different from his scumgames where he basically picks a person and tunnels that into oblivion.


Isn't that pretty much what he's been doing towards me D1? Well, he did initially pick ritoky, I guess, but since that didn't go anywhere it became me.

Anyways didn't you learn from your mistakes? Last time as well, in the VS game, I started suspecting you and you turned on a switch where I was 100% scum. That was... really bad. As it is now. Pretty much exactly the same as what you're doing now, and it's still equally scummy.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 14:55 GMT
#892
Btw rayn it's not like I said my case on you in the last game was bad. I just said that it wasn't water-tight, but it was still good enough to pursue. And I think the same applies here. All the more because you were scum that time and all the same points hold true again.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 15:00 GMT
#895
On October 23 2015 23:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Let's lynch Slam.
##unvote
##vote Alakaslam

I wanna tunnel Xatalos so hard after D1. So hard.
I am literally seeing red and i really really wanna do this.
And i can't unless i lynch mafia.


WTF is this post btw? Where did the Slam scumread come from? And why is it pre-set that I should be the next lynch regardless of what Slam flips? And why am I even scum again, for suspecting you for the same reasons I suspected you last time you were scum? Wot? Nothing makes sense.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 15:06 GMT
#901
Apparently rayn mentioned Slam as a PoE suspect at one point but... why is he the lynch of choice suddenly? Over me who's 100% scum, or GB similarly?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 15:07 GMT
#903
On October 24 2015 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 00:06 Xatalos wrote:
Apparently rayn mentioned Slam as a PoE suspect at one point but... why is he the lynch of choice suddenly? Over me who's 100% scum, or GB similarly?

bcz i am scum obviously. did you forget?


Yeah..... It's getting harder to see any other reason....
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 15:11 GMT
#905
Unfortunately I think a rayn/marv scumteam makes sense.

Because I have difficulties seeing why town marv would defend rayn based on something that never actually happened, in the first moments of the game, and ignoring everything rayn said afterwards.... Even though rayn already has like 7 pages of filter.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 15:21 GMT
#919
On October 24 2015 00:14 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 00:11 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately I think a rayn/marv scumteam makes sense.

Because I have difficulties seeing why town marv would defend rayn based on something that never actually happened, in the first moments of the game, and ignoring everything rayn said afterwards.... Even though rayn already has like 7 pages of filter.

i'm not ignoring everything he says afterwards. i liked some of his longer posts.

you're coming at this in a really, really shallow way.

like I can answer your question about rayn's play.

rayn thinks GB could be mafia, but he has nagging meta/tonal reasons that he might be town
rayn thinks you are mafia because of your shit read on him, but he knows he cannot push a lynch through on you at all with me opposing it today
rayn recognises that me and him both agree on Slam, this is a good shot of being mafia and if he hits mafia he gets more cred to go after you.


Do you honestly think he believes I'm scum based on that? I made an extremely similar push last time I was town and he was scum, and he similarly immediately scumread me for the push. It's actually unbelievable how similar his gut reaction is.

And it's very odd how his PoE possibility of Slam being scum suddenly became the best lynch. Even though he's pushed GB for the recent times. And how is PoE even a valid reason for his lynch choice when he has several actual scumreads and overall his reads are nothing consistent? His reads have changed in so many directions that how is Slam still in a similar PoE position? I think he just saw an easy way out of getting lynched today and went for the easy route of sheeping you, even though there's still like 5-6 hours time left.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 15:29 GMT
#927
On October 24 2015 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 00:21 Xatalos wrote:
On October 24 2015 00:14 marvellosity wrote:
On October 24 2015 00:11 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately I think a rayn/marv scumteam makes sense.

Because I have difficulties seeing why town marv would defend rayn based on something that never actually happened, in the first moments of the game, and ignoring everything rayn said afterwards.... Even though rayn already has like 7 pages of filter.

i'm not ignoring everything he says afterwards. i liked some of his longer posts.

you're coming at this in a really, really shallow way.

like I can answer your question about rayn's play.

rayn thinks GB could be mafia, but he has nagging meta/tonal reasons that he might be town
rayn thinks you are mafia because of your shit read on him, but he knows he cannot push a lynch through on you at all with me opposing it today
rayn recognises that me and him both agree on Slam, this is a good shot of being mafia and if he hits mafia he gets more cred to go after you.


Do you honestly think he believes I'm scum based on that? I made an extremely similar push last time I was town and he was scum, and he similarly immediately scumread me for the push. It's actually unbelievable how similar his gut reaction is.

And it's very odd how his PoE possibility of Slam being scum suddenly became the best lynch. Even though he's pushed GB for the recent times. And how is PoE even a valid reason for his lynch choice when he has several actual scumreads and overall his reads are nothing consistent? His reads have changed in so many directions that how is Slam still in a similar PoE position? I think he just saw an easy way out of getting lynched today and went for the easy route of sheeping you, even though there's still like 5-6 hours time left.

your push is shityy shit shit, and if you are town you can't read me (which doesn't surprise me at all based on your last game's case).


So how am I 100% scum because of this push if it wouldn't surprise you that I made this push as town?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 15:32 GMT
#936
GB, if you're town, seriously don't just commit suicide here. Looks like it's heading towards you vs rayn and it'd be sad if you caused your own death there, like a certain player in my newbie game....
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
October 23 2015 15:34 GMT
#938
On October 24 2015 00:33 marvellosity wrote:
it's not heading towards anything vs rayn.


It is if I have anything to say about it.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
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