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Newbie Student Mafia XIV: Firefly - Page 81

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
September 08 2015 12:56 GMT
#1601
For some reason it reminds me of the family guy episode:

"Peter, do you want the mystery box or the boat?"
"Well a boat is a boat but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat! You know I've always wanted one of those."
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 12:58 GMT
#1602
On September 08 2015 21:53 Fidei86 wrote:
Okay I can't help myself.

MD: "reads" aren't the most important thing here. We have a claim and a counter-claim. Look at the circumstances. Rayn's makes sense, GB's doesn't. reads can feed into that, but having a "read" on someone like Cake, be stronger than the claim analysis just strikes me as super-duper weird. I shouldn't have to explain this.


+1

Also like I said last night, there's one caveat to Cake being mafia and that's the fact she pushed gb most of day 1, although as I alluded to her list post, it was for bad reasons. A day 1 bus is unlikely for most people from what I understand but if gb was getting enough pressure by the time she really started pushing him, a bus situation may be more realistic. I have not looked at that quite closely yet but it was something that came to mind looking through the people that were pushing gb day 1.

Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
September 08 2015 13:01 GMT
#1603
I have literally zero reason to post until EoN2.
Doesn't help i would most likely end up arguing with scummydoosy.
table for two on a tv tray
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 13:02 GMT
#1604
Also in reference to what boxerfred said about the filter diving, maybe I wasn't clear but I looked at the slam/superbia interactions and especially when you look at what superbia threw last night without any followup and slam's reasoning for changing his stance on superbia even if it wasn't particularly articulate, I think slam comes off looking much better and superbia quite worse.

he balks d1 at not being town leader or something like that, he asks for the case on copcake, and his only scumread for what I could tell was slam which amounts to a bit of omgus. I looked into slam's read change or potential read change on superbia and it makes sense, the change based on fidei's reads on him.

Someone (scott? or was it fidei?) mentioned there was a lot of questions coming from him and not a lot of "doing" with those questions. so since you're here fidei, can we talk about superbia? I think he has a pretty realistic chance of being scum.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 13:02 GMT
#1605
Actually that goes for anyone really who might be suspicious of him, not just Fidei.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
September 08 2015 13:03 GMT
#1606
On September 08 2015 22:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have literally zero reason to post until EoN2.
Doesn't help i would most likely end up arguing with scummydoosy.

False. We need to keep looking for the other 2 scum. Wasting a day is what the Mafia are hoping we'll do.

Wow, the 1% on my phone has gone a while...
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
September 08 2015 13:05 GMT
#1607
On September 08 2015 22:03 Fidei86 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2015 22:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have literally zero reason to post until EoN2.
Doesn't help i would most likely end up arguing with scummydoosy.

False. We need to keep looking for the other 2 scum. Wasting a day is what the Mafia are hoping we'll do.

Not really, we are looking for 1 more scum.
And at this point i am biased of thinking NM is the last scum because he cannot realize Cake cannot possibly be mafia.
table for two on a tv tray
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 13:08 GMT
#1608
I've observed/read enough games (two at least) where autopilot mentality has cost town. which is why I thought md was probable town, he isn't just fucking off, and he's made it clear he's not willing to split votes (post 1597) but still wants to get his point across on a case he believes in.

MD if you are still here who do you think the final scum could be? (assuming gb flips red and if copcake is mafia in your world)
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
Breshke
Profile Joined July 2014
Australia3749 Posts
September 08 2015 13:11 GMT
#1609
rayn who was the mafia other than GB? Were you saying it was MD?

It is going to be fairly funny if mafia medic dodged not killing rayn by killing yamato when rayn is the medic.

Not that yam wasn't townie in his own right
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 13:11 GMT
#1610
On September 08 2015 22:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Not really, we are looking for 1 more scum.
And at this point i am biased of thinking NM is the last scum because he cannot realize Cake cannot possibly be mafia.


On September 08 2015 21:58 NocturneMage wrote:
Also like I said last night, there's one caveat to Cake being mafia and that's the fact she pushed gb most of day 1, although as I alluded to her list post, it was for bad reasons. A day 1 bus is unlikely for most people from what I understand but if gb was getting enough pressure by the time she really started pushing him, a bus situation may be more realistic. I have not looked at that quite closely yet but it was something that came to mind looking through the people that were pushing gb day 1.


?????

I said this before last night as well.

I'm scumreading cake based on her behaviour and Scott even mentioned the filter was poor list post aside. But I am willing to re-evaluate.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
September 08 2015 13:16 GMT
#1611
Oh really?
Then why is your filter from D2 basically purely focused on telling "why Cake is mafia"?

Because the townie thing to do, if you realize she isn't, is to say:
"it does not matter, she cannot be mafia". Instead of these posts:
On September 08 2015 09:33 NocturneMage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2015 09:30 Superbia wrote:
Why is copcake mafia?


Hang on. I kept hammering the same post home d1. Going to find it again lol.

On September 08 2015 09:36 NocturneMage wrote:
This is NOT my case/points, but these are some points presented against her:

Show nested quote +
On September 06 2015 06:30 n00bKing wrote:
On September 06 2015 06:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On September 06 2015 06:03 n00bKing wrote:
On September 06 2015 02:10 yamato77 wrote:
n00bKing wrote:
On THIS site, it seems like the games usually have a few dim bulbs. It's a lower level of play than I'm used to, and I'm still trying to make adjustments. This is an example of such an adjustment.

Fucking LOL

pot, kettle, black

Mmmm, NO. It was only my SECOND game here on this site, when I asked the other players if they knew of any good places to play Mafia-by-Forum. Because this ain't it. Players here don't care, players here don't try, and I don't think some of them would know how to try even if they wanted to. But I had said I would play in Moosy's 4th and final Newbie game, so here I am.


stop bitching. this is the site with the most quality mafia games on the internet.

why is cake mafia?

Most games, maybe, which is why I came here. Because the places I like to play don't have games as frequently. But there's no quality here.

Cake is suspicious because her vote against me comes in an obvious pile-on position for Scum that is looking for a safe place to land. She continually says things about Moosy that are not true, and projects onto him her own scummy behaviors, as though she's watching a mirror instead of watching him. She is also overly defensive in situations that don't call for it. Which is not always a Scum trait, but is seen from Scum more often than from Town, in my experience. GlowingBear and Scott (mostly GB) have cited specific posts from CopCake that are suspicious, and I had similar findings.

On September 08 2015 09:57 NocturneMage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2015 09:52 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On September 08 2015 09:52 NocturneMage wrote:
Yeah MD I also took issue with #3, she blew that out of proportion by saying you were antagonising her. Like I read around her response to you. Her comment against you is bullshit.

what do you think about the case in general?


I think the case overall is excellent. #1 and 3 were points that n00bking alluded to, and #3 and #5 were similar to the ideas I was hammering home.

I'm also not impressed she couldn't readily produce the associative reads off her top scum read.

table for two on a tv tray
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 13:19 GMT
#1612
Okay seriously.

Look at page 7 of Superbia's filter we have the following -

Scumread on MD that amounts to TMI on n00bking.
Scumread on Fidei that is related to his voting - and he hasn't followed up since.
Scumread on Alakaslam where Alakaslam mentions in each of his posts why the town read on superbia is there and why he's re-evaluating (fidei's post), he's even said he's reconsidering and still had to look up superbia. So I don't know where superbia gets "soft pushing" from.

It's basically that both needed to follow up there, but the point remains.

Then superbia asks md whether gb is town or mafia, and asks for the case on copcake, and he just isn't or had not done anything with it.

And he was present when the claim situation went down, he has yet to vote.

So I'm curious to see where he stands on fidei and md because regardless of the claim analysis there's serious lack of followup from his end, although the fact he's not even taken a stance on the claim situation just looks really bad too.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 13:24 GMT
#1613
rayn, here's the thing, her play has been scummy to me, so I can't ignore that. I don't think in terms of absolutes either as the claim situation from gb is stronger than my read (or any read) on cake and I'm working backwards on that and looking at all possibilities.

that's why I'm talking about a possible bus in a world where gb and cake are both mafia, do I think it's likely, probably not, but her gameplay has me thinking twice. I'd hate to have just entirely ignored the possibility where someone (anyone) makes a sick bus early on in the game and then rides that cred to victory.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
September 08 2015 13:28 GMT
#1614
On September 08 2015 17:24 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2015 17:22 Fidei86 wrote:
GB's flip will assist, but on the proviso that he flips Mafia, I think Bresh is the most likely town (other than Rayn). He was continuing to disbelieve GB's claim and was pushing his lynch before rayn's claim. That is a ton more convincing than anything Scott has done, as far as I can see.

I get that argumentation. But consider this: Breshke says "Lynch GB!" then GB claims doctor, Breshke says "Lynch GB!" without considering anything else, not even asking questions. I mean he was willing into the un-CC'ed doctor, right? That's not too town indicative so I strongly disagree with your point of saying "Bresh more town than Rayn". Breshke is a null for me currently.

So also Yamato and Rayn (at first)
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
September 08 2015 13:29 GMT
#1615
On September 08 2015 17:46 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2015 17:45 Fidei86 wrote:
Ok I think you might be mis-remembering because Breshke wasn't ever on the GB wagon. He claims to have been sleeping, and his vote was on Slam through EOD.

But that actually changes my view somewhat - I'd also thought he was on the GB wagon for some reason. In the circumstances where GB already fake claims, mafia Bresh would have nothing to lose by pressuring him, especially because it was reasonable to assume town would not lynch into him without a CC. So, yeah. Bresh loses his town Jesus cred for now.

Ah this is true. Was it Slam then who was all the way on GB and still wanted to go after him without any reonsideration? :/

You bet! A source of pride!
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
September 08 2015 13:29 GMT
#1616
On September 08 2015 22:24 NocturneMage wrote:
rayn, here's the thing, her play has been scummy to me, so I can't ignore that. I don't think in terms of absolutes either as the claim situation from gb is stronger than my read (or any read) on cake and I'm working backwards on that and looking at all possibilities.

that's why I'm talking about a possible bus in a world where gb and cake are both mafia, do I think it's likely, probably not, but her gameplay has me thinking twice. I'd hate to have just entirely ignored the possibility where someone (anyone) makes a sick bus early on in the game and then rides that cred to victory.

Let's assume you believe the second part you wrote is true.
How can you possibly ever think anyone is mafia if "anything is possible"?
table for two on a tv tray
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 13:31 GMT
#1617
and yet again I can't tell why you'd assume illogical = mafia. several situations I've observed where "illogical" townies have gotten mislynched in these games. or where townies have played suboptimally and just mafia-sided hard.

If you think my scum reading copcake is mafia driven or flawed (or with md's) I'm surprised she hasn't refuted the points made. Personally I understand the confirmation bias argument with some of the points made by md, but to me it's just when you take all those points together, you have a fairly strong case.

Even if you or her think the case is bad if she was town, I don't get why she isn't carrying on and looking for the other two scum or in her world where gb and md are scum, the last scum. At some point, to me, any town just sitting back and not doing anything isn't going to help.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
September 08 2015 13:32 GMT
#1618
On September 08 2015 22:31 NocturneMage wrote:
and yet again I can't tell why you'd assume illogical = mafia. several situations I've observed where "illogical" townies have gotten mislynched in these games. or where townies have played suboptimally and just mafia-sided hard.

If you think my scum reading copcake is mafia driven or flawed (or with md's) I'm surprised she hasn't refuted the points made. Personally I understand the confirmation bias argument with some of the points made by md, but to me it's just when you take all those points together, you have a fairly strong case.

Even if you or her think the case is bad if she was town, I don't get why she isn't carrying on and looking for the other two scum or in her world where gb and md are scum, the last scum. At some point, to me, any town just sitting back and not doing anything isn't going to help.

She already thinks GB and Moosydoosy are mafia and that's pretty much guaranteed 2/2 right.
table for two on a tv tray
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
September 08 2015 13:36 GMT
#1619
On September 08 2015 22:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2015 22:24 NocturneMage wrote:
rayn, here's the thing, her play has been scummy to me, so I can't ignore that. I don't think in terms of absolutes either as the claim situation from gb is stronger than my read (or any read) on cake and I'm working backwards on that and looking at all possibilities.

that's why I'm talking about a possible bus in a world where gb and cake are both mafia, do I think it's likely, probably not, but her gameplay has me thinking twice. I'd hate to have just entirely ignored the possibility where someone (anyone) makes a sick bus early on in the game and then rides that cred to victory.

Let's assume you believe the second part you wrote is true.
How can you possibly ever think anyone is mafia if "anything is possible"?


I don't understand where that second question comes from.

It's an either/or situation:

Cake is town and her push on gb was towny.
Cake is mafia and had a strategy where she pushed gb for the cred.

Where day 1 busses are rare, you look at someone's behavior and weigh that against
(1) the timing and content of her push and
(2) the behaviour of other players in the game (ie if enough of them are towny, you could poe her out)

Which ultimately gauges how likely she is to be mafia.

Based on my thoughts about her behaviour that is why the bus thing is still a possibility.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
September 08 2015 13:41 GMT
#1620
Look i don't really care.
If you want to push Cake who has been calling GB mafia all game long fine. Please do.
When GB flips i will convince the town to lynch Moosydoosy.
If you do continue this i will also convince the town lynch you after Moosydoosy flips scum.
Because oh boy, after that you look really stupid if you are town.
table for two on a tv tray
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