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On August 20 2015 16:20 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 15:56 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 15:07 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 14:41 The Shining wrote:On August 20 2015 11:55 Fecalfeast wrote:On August 20 2015 11:19 The Shining wrote:On August 20 2015 11:15 geript wrote:
Really no one else is posting? This is some bs K maybe ur not so scummy ??? elaborate feels like he's genuinely frustrated that the game is slow and no one is talking. i dont think scum would care enough to make this post Except he posted that 3 hours after his last post, in the middle of conversation that other people were having and then doesn't post again for 2 hours. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/491840-the-new-personality-mafia?page=33#651I honestly don't get the reason for geripts post here. It's out of place, complains about "no one posting" but doesn't try to engage anyone who IS posting at the time. So if geript really was frustrated why does he complain about something that is clearly not true? Why doesn't he try and engadge people who are around at the time of that post. So on the surface saying "scum wouldn't care to make this post" sounds good, but when you look at that post in context it makes very little sense. Seems like a shitty reason to townread geript to me. Thing is that other players have complained about the meta of the game so far. When I did it, I followed up with a big post with reads etc. Geript didn't exactly post a WoT, but he has been giving reads, appearing to think critically etc. But what about Kelsier? Pretty much all he has said are throwaway remarks about the bad meta of the game. And he always have these without looking to engage anyone. So if you're not also scum reading him as well, that's a double standard. KSC, Obi, and Yamato look like they are just being themselves to me, they kinda just don't give a shit. I haven't really played much with them (and never with yamato) but from what I've seen of them in other games this is pretty par for the course. Obi is actually a slight town read for me currently, he has made a few pokes and prods. As scum I'd describe him as "just along for the ride", in this game I feel like he's a little engadged, sorta? Idk he is definitely someone to keep an eye on though. Humm actually KSC does seem to be a little more throwaway this game than I'd like... I'll reread him a bit later. I can't recall if it was him or someone else I suspected of rolling Palmar.
Kelsier keeps getting NK'd early in the games I'm in him with (Newbie, Himalayas) which is confusing because you're right, he always plays like this (not giving a shit, trolling, being passive aggressive). It really annoys me though because it doesn't help town at all and, if he is town, makes him an easy ML later on. And it annoys me even more because my guess is that he's attempting to preserve his 'meta' for when he rolls scum. It's easy for him to repeat as either alignment. The only reason I'm not pushing him is because he falls into the same camp as Damdred and the "lurkers" - there are too many of them to crack out a policy lynch agenda.
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On August 20 2015 16:32 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:26 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:16 Tubesock wrote:
What's your thinking on Damdred? Okay I have a bunch of thoughts. 1. Damdred is a strong player, especially towards the later part of the game. However his reads early on are usually quite meh. In Holy Guardians he was 100% wrong on all of reads until like d4 when he solved the game and got insta-NK'd. 2. There is no point in even bothering to parse his posts so far - they are garbage. Clearly he is role playing. Fine. But exactly as I said viz Onegu in Holy Guardians - he's easy lynch bait later on if he doesn't stop messing around. I would be pushing him harder, but there are too many people who haven't been playing the game properly (as I think of it anyway.. Pushing, giving reads, interacting on meaningful stuff) for a policy lynch to make sense. I think I had what, nine people on my 'lurker' list? Pretty sure some are Mafia, but they can't all be. 3. Damdred and ritoky always claim that they have a super good read on each other. So far, from the games I've seen, their reads on each other are usually right. So honestly if I was going to listen to someone's opinion of Damdred, it would be ritoky (especially now ritoky seems to be engaged in the game a little more). Wait what? Basically what this boils down to is that you have no opinion but would trust the person pushing on you who you said you had a scum lean on before? I get that your starting to lean town on him now, but this still feels weird to me. I'm also really confused why you keep bringing up what happened in other games when you yourself keep pointing out that almost nobody is playing like themselves...
well, I do have an opinion, just not a read. And yes, I'm skeptical of ritoky this game. This interaction has actually reminded me that it is weird that they haven't been interacting at all, given how they usually do very early on. I know they're pretending to be someone else, but it is such a strong meta part of the game for both of them that I would have thought they'd find a way to weave it into their role play.
Viz other games - that's just how I think. What people have done in their previous games provides me with some kind of yardstick for measuring their play.
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On August 20 2015 16:34 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:30 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:25 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote:
Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm. Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today? Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why? A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound. Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now. ... Yea your scum. Sorry buddy.
Care to elaborate?
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On August 20 2015 16:41 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:30 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:25 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote:
Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm. Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today? Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why? A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound. Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now. Just like to point out that the bolded is so crazy untrue. If it were, then no one would use meta as everyone would play their "town" meta no matter their role. Why am I your top vote? Half the shit you scummed me for you agreed with. You know like how you weren't reading...
Maybe we're talking at cross purposes? Let me try again. Going into a game with a plan on how to play REGARDLESS OF WHAT ALIGNMENT YOU ROLL is the easiest way to conceal your alignment. That is the same for ritoky spamming his RNG nonsense and Kelsier being inactive (and Onegu for his crap, though obv he isn't in the game). That's what I meant.
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On August 20 2015 16:46 Tubesock wrote:
Hypocrisy is delicious.
So, you top scum me because you've never played with me and don't have any "hopes" shall we say of me being more town. Over KelsierSC who is nailing Batsnacks' can't give a fuck attitude. You are saying that Kels usually doesn't do shit, but gets NK'd so he must be good? Is that what I read?
I'm not saying it makes sense that he keeps getting NK'd, I'm just saying that is what has happened in previous games. And this isn't Kelsier being bat - from what I've seen its what he does every game.
And as to scumming you - that was my read at the time. I need to update it now but I've been stuck in this dialogue with TT. I will obviously update my reads. But I don't see that I should just refuse to give a read because I haven't played with you before? And if I caveated every read with "but I haven't played with him before" that would be tedious. And I don't need to if I'm not basing the read on meta.
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On August 20 2015 16:50 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:44 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:34 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:30 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:25 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote:
Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm. Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today? Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why? A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound. Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now. ... Yea your scum. Sorry buddy. Care to elaborate? I'll expound on it a little later, right now I'm rather see you doing something other than defending yourself.
Fair enough.
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On August 20 2015 17:05 KelsierSC wrote:
I'm clearly town and you're all bad
KSC I've said some pretty mean things about you in the thread so far. I accused you of wanting to protect your meta more than actually wanting to help town win. Am I wrong?
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I've just read Tube's filter a couple of times (which I hadn't done before - my previous run through was the thread). The thing that stands out to me most is that his town list is basically identical to mine. He town reads Breshke, JJ and Geript. He also has HTS who I am fairly null on. He goes hot then cold on Chez. The weirdest thing about his reads is his "ritoky is towny but then maybe he's actually null." I don't think its a slip, though - it's not like I've been able to get a hard read on Ritoky either. His point on JJ going away I don't agree with, but it's hardly scummy.
So ... Yah. The stuff that I was focussing on (the early game spam and the move onto me) seem less important now than what he has done subsequently, which aligns with my views a lot more. So now I'm thinking Tube is probably town.
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I may also be subconsciously giving Tube a pass because he appears to be actually playing the game how I think it should be played, rather than lurking, shitposting or being useless (see Kelsier).
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On August 20 2015 17:30 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:28 Fidei86 wrote:
The thing that stands out to me most is that his town list is basically identical to mine.
...
So now I'm thinking Tube is probably town. wow that's stupid you can't possibly think that
Having aligned views has been a reasonable town indicator, based on my experience, which is limited. Happy to be educated if you don't agree. But with so much lurking and bad play going on, it seems like bad play to tunnel someone who actually seems to be reading the game somewhat similarly to me, surely?
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Hmm. That makes sense, but then again I've seen players hesitate to give scum reads early on and be town.
Is your read on me just because you think I'm playing badly? Because I'm generally accused of that. And I admit that I'm not a good player really, at least not in these bigger games. In Himalayas I basically lurked for three days, and only got through because I rolled mason with rsoult. But do you think that scum me (in my first scum game, no less) (1) has totally unguarded, and in hindsight, pretty dumb thread entry, (2) doesn't scum read Rux immediately, who is the clear alternative wagon here and is being pushed by at least some of my town reads, and (3) doesn't try to jump enthusiastically onto the Tube wagon, which, as you said yourself literally a couple of minutes ago, would serve to pretty much exonerate me.
All that in a meta where lurkers do not get punished and indeed get a free pass (not just in this game, it happens in pretty much all my games here). And if I had scum team mates, would they not either (I) be trying to direct attention elsewhere, or (II) telling me how to not be such obvious scum?
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I say "be obvious scum" because everything I post seems to only be serving to further incriminate me :-(
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On August 20 2015 17:32 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:31 Fidei86 wrote:
I may also be subconsciously giving Tube a pass because he appears to be actually playing the game how I think it should be played, rather than lurking, shitposting or being useless (see Kelsier). You're such a fun sponge
The fact that people who play like you get free passes consistently drives me nuts. Give some opinions. Try and freaking help out. Ask some questions or prod someone or at least do something other than recycling the same smarmy passive-aggressive stuff that you can't seem to get away from.
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On August 20 2015 17:48 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
(1) has totally unguarded, and in hindsight, pretty dumb thread entry Yes new (stupid) scum does just that. Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
(2) doesn't scum read Rux immediately, who is the clear alternative wagon here and is being pushed by at least some of my town reads Yes new (stupid) scum does just that. Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
3) doesn't try to jump enthusiastically onto the Tube wagon, which, as you said yourself literally a couple of minutes ago, would serve to pretty much exonerate me No. Doing that if you're mafia and tubesock is town is super stupid. Hence why I think you're a team. Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
All that in a meta where lurkers do not get punished and indeed get a free pass (not just in this game, it happens in pretty much all my games here). But contrary to all those lurkers, you are a lynch candidate today. It's garanteed that if you didn't post for 24 hours you would be the lynch.
The "push" on me started with ritoky's stupid RNG thing. If I'd just posted questions, a couple of town reads and generally not done anything, it would have fizzled out.
And none of your reasoning above excludes stupid town, except the bit where you say I have to be town if Tube is scum, which you think he is, but then you think we're on a team? Tube was on me from the start, and has only been pushing me basically - he has no other scum reads. If this is a bus strategy then it has started super early. I've never rolled mafia or seen a super early bus strat, but it doesn't seem smart to me. Why give up a teammate this early for 'cred' in a big game where it will all be forgotten immediately anyway?
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On August 20 2015 17:50 Rels wrote:
now that I explained why your tubesock's townread is stupid, do you reconsider ?
I hadn't thought about things like that before. You're right that town reads are easy to give out as mafia. In a way, it would make sense that nervous mafia would town read people who seem to be posting in a town manner (which would explain why our reads align), and his push on me without scum reading anyone else (or really even considering anyone else, for that matter) isn't exactly massively towny. So yeah, I guess.
Since you're online, I might as well ask - you've been pretty quiet up until now. What do you think about the push on me more generally (that you now seem to have joined)?
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On August 20 2015 17:55 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:51 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 17:48 Rels wrote:On August 20 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
(1) has totally unguarded, and in hindsight, pretty dumb thread entry Yes new (stupid) scum does just that. On August 20 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
(2) doesn't scum read Rux immediately, who is the clear alternative wagon here and is being pushed by at least some of my town reads Yes new (stupid) scum does just that. On August 20 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
3) doesn't try to jump enthusiastically onto the Tube wagon, which, as you said yourself literally a couple of minutes ago, would serve to pretty much exonerate me No. Doing that if you're mafia and tubesock is town is super stupid. Hence why I think you're a team. On August 20 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
All that in a meta where lurkers do not get punished and indeed get a free pass (not just in this game, it happens in pretty much all my games here). But contrary to all those lurkers, you are a lynch candidate today. It's garanteed that if you didn't post for 24 hours you would be the lynch. The "push" on me started with ritoky's stupid RNG thing. If I'd just posted questions, a couple of town reads and generally not done anything, it would have fizzled out. And none of your reasoning above excludes stupid town, except the bit where you say I have to be town if Tube is scum, which you think he is, but then you think we're on a team? Tube was on me from the start, and has only been pushing me basically - he has no other scum reads. If this is a bus strategy then it has started super early. I've never rolled mafia or seen a super early bus strat, but it doesn't seem smart to me. Why give up a teammate this early for 'cred' in a big game where it will all be forgotten immediately anyway? this is a stupid question, are you shitting the thread intentionally ? there are lots of avantages to mafias attacking each other: they have something to talk about (only real discussion tubesock had was with you), if one flips the other gains towncred, and both tube and you do not really have the power to get the other killed, so it could be all fake activity
Yeah I agree that bussing is a thing that can work or be helpful in certain situations, but bussing before anything else has really happened? I've never seen that before. And I'm sorry if you thought it was a stupid question. I'm obviously biased as to whether or not it is stupid, but it was genuine.
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I dunno, what's the difference between that and just being nice / trying to work with you to find scum? I guess pocketing would be an agenda, whereas being nice is just spontaneous. I'll leave it to you to think about which it is.
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On August 20 2015 18:06 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:48 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 17:32 KelsierSC wrote:On August 20 2015 17:31 Fidei86 wrote:
I may also be subconsciously giving Tube a pass because he appears to be actually playing the game how I think it should be played, rather than lurking, shitposting or being useless (see Kelsier). You're such a fun sponge The fact that people who play like you get free passes consistently drives me nuts. Give some opinions. Try and freaking help out. Ask some questions or prod someone or at least do something other than recycling the same smarmy passive-aggressive stuff that you can't seem to get away from. Hmm questions Why are you such a bore?
I dunno. I've hardly covered myself in glory so far, apparently. But I do want to know whether you just play this way to preserve your 'meta' for when you roll scum, or if you just genuinely cba with the game? Or maybe you just prefer to lurk because you think you can avoid being lynched and solved the game later? I dunno. But until you start actually helping, as I define it, I'm going to keep calling you out, because that's how I think town win. If you don't agree, then say!
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@The Shining I just read your filter. It looks like your only real substantive action is to push Tube. Your two reasons are (1) his "on again, off again" Chezinu read on Geript, and (2) his jumping on my wagon. What do you think of Rels' case on Tube? Do you have any other scum reads?
I do like that TS read Geript's complaints about the general play of lots of players in this game as towny. I had the same reaction, although I don't think it's because scum wouldn't care that they wouldn't post like geript, I think it's because the behaviour that geript is lamenting (town inactivity / mehness) is hurting town. Then again, it sort of contradicts with TS's overall play, which I think has been lacklustre.
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I think there is a reasonable scum case to be made on VayneAuthority.
His filter is currently less than a page long, and consists almost entirely of one-line posts that appear to be attempts to roleplay someone. No idea who though. It could be a comically poor rsoult (just for use of the kiss at the end?), I guess, but whatever. If it was just weak roleplay then I would have to stop, as I've already said that I'm staying null on people who give nothing away via roleplay (I'm mostly thinking of Damdred, and possibly KSC, although I think this is just how he actually plays) at least for a little while longer. But it isn't.
He has roleplaying posts:
"Hello dearies, I am here to solve the game x" (#401)
"I am your only hope, sweetie. I will vote whoever I damn please when I want to because you are all bad." (#404)
"A good strategy, except we won't mislynch because I am the best player of all time. Not to worry QT." (#499)
But, crucially, he also has some posts that at least purport to be more serious comment on the game. However, they all end up nowhere. He prods HTS for trying to get people onto the Ruxx wagon (#495), says he doesn't know what to make of my big WoT (#497), says that all JJ has done is to "post asinine Wots" (#498) - which, by the way, I don't agree with because at that point JJ had already started making more substantive posts (see, for example, #482), and asks what Lord Tolkien had said about him (#571). The sum of his posts has been to try and soft scum myself, HTS and JJ, but without committing to an actual read, or even really giving serious thoughts on any of us at all.
The sum of all of this is that VA appears to be trying to do as little as possible, whilst also trying to cover that with some half-assed roleplay (ie "of course I've been useless, I'm emulating X who is useless"). But that doesn't work when you slip and actually make posts that look much more like they're coming straight from VA, unfiltered by roleplay.
The only thing that gives me pause is his last post, which says "I have no thoughts on this game right now bye." (#650). I wouldn't have expected mafia to make such a scummy post to sit in amongst such a small filter. But I think the answer is that it's more weak roleplay attempt.
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EPT
