• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:17
CEST 05:17
KST 12:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview0[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies18Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League2Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !18
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ VPN experiences vespene.gg — BW replays in browser (Spoiler) ASL21 Winner's Interview
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Organizations: Raisi…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1300 users

TL Mafia Ban List 3.0 - Page 63

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 61 62 63 64 65 91 Next
Message Blazinghand if you request a ban please ^_^
Also when the game you're sitting out is over!
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 18 2016 22:33 GMT
#1241
On July 19 2016 06:54 KelsierSC wrote:
I'm in support of the perm after reading snickers response.


100% and glad it was so.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Skynx
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Turkey7150 Posts
July 19 2016 05:22 GMT
#1242
We can just get him banned from tl for disrespecting the community over multitude of pages of spam. The thing is I don't know which post is more worthy of a report. My report stats are pretty bad tho :/
This might all be some periodic-post-trauma stuff btw and maybe he's a perfect human being normally who might come back in few months and tear up the competition who knows.
"When seagulls follow the troller, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much" - King Cantona | STX 4 eva
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25560 Posts
July 19 2016 05:32 GMT
#1243
On July 19 2016 14:22 Skynx wrote:
We can just get him banned from tl for disrespecting the community over multitude of pages of spam. The thing is I don't know which post is more worthy of a report. My report stats are pretty bad tho :/
This might all be some periodic-post-trauma stuff btw and maybe he's a perfect human being normally who might come back in few months and tear up the competition who knows.


He is on the semi-permanent ban list, and in general please do not report posts in TL Mafia. He won't be back any time soon, and if he does want to come back, we will have a chat.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-19 11:56:02
July 19 2016 11:53 GMT
#1244
On July 18 2016 20:01 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2016 17:41 justanothertownie wrote:
On July 18 2016 11:13 Onegu wrote:
Koshi someone ruined my game because I DIDNT modkill for failure to vote day 1. Thoughts???

So?
That guy is an idiot. Your ban proposals are very justified and correct in my opinion. Don't know what it has to do with Koshi and his (also correct) stance on modkills for nonvotes.



Just found it ironic I got blasted for modkilling on first non vote in my first game hosting. And a gamed ruined because the guy thought I should have modkilled for first non vote.

Case of damned if you do damned if you don't....

The person who thinks you should modkill somebody for not voting is clearly an idiot.

The idea behind not modkilling for failure to vote is the following:

Failure to vote does not affect the game. It only affects possible Vote Analysis. However, not voting, or voting on a 1 person wagon can be analysed. However, modkilling a person tremendously affect the game, almost nobody doesn't vote on purpose. So in normal games it is going to prolong the game 10/13 times but make it so dumb because town lost a ml and the information with that, so it is just a slower loss. While the 3/13 times it is a mafia that didn't vote their team really gets fucked but people tend to say that mafia teams are as strong as their strongest member so I guess it might be easier to salvage than for town? Not sure about that at all.

It comes down that almost all modkills are extremely bad for the game, and that people spend 3-5 hours a day for 2 weeks straight trying to solve the puzzle. modkilling for something that has almost no impact on the solving aspect of the game is ridiculous and cancerous to me.


We are lucky we play with a lot of dedicated players that keep up activity through the entire game. Failure to vote is the worst reason to modkill a person in this good activity environment on TL.




PS: for example, in your game Alakaslam had a 3 page filter and the only reason he failed to vote was because he didn't realize there was a voting thread and "voted" int he main thread. Modkilling a person for that was a fucking joke and if Jeebus himself comes down from Heaven and explains to me I am wrong I would still call him a retard and tell him to gtfo back to heaven because he doesn't understand shit.


tldr: because some idiot was being idiotic it doesn't change the fact that the alakaslam modkill in your game was a farce. And my modkill + 3 games ban for saying it was a farce and being very upset in the thread (without excessive flaming) was the joke of the 21th century.
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 19 2016 11:59 GMT
#1245
Also. for the record. I completely am ok with all hosts and respect them all nowadays. I even regained some of the fondness I felt for them before they ruined every other game for 6 months in a row.
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 19 2016 12:05 GMT
#1246
On July 19 2016 03:01 Snickers wrote:
I find it quite funny how upset people get about this stuff. Its prty simple. I signed up for a game. The host doesnt know the rules and doesnt enforce them. The host wasted my time and so did shapelog for not voting so I "ruined" the game.

I dont feel bad about it all. After fucking the game up Onegu just wants to bitch/lie/pussy foot around to make himself look better.

if it was in the rules that after a first offense of not voting you were going to get modkilled you have a point.

obviously posting the scum qt and ruining the game for others is an extremely terrible way to proof your point. But it seems to be in fashion lately. + Show Spoiler +
lol ve+ Show Spoiler +
too soon?


I don't really understand why you would ever take that route. Just let it be and make a comment in the banlist or make a thread about it or something. the disclaimer being that making thread or having bad comments on hosts are pretty much ignored the first 10 times and when you get fanatic about it people marginalize it and you. But w.e
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 19 2016 12:08 GMT
#1247
On July 19 2016 04:49 Palmar wrote:
I can't remember a game in a long time where host incompetence caused any serious problem. I guess I'm of the "don't fix it if it ain't broken" school of thought.

hahahahaha + Show Spoiler +
too soon?
I had a good night of sleep.
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
July 19 2016 12:24 GMT
#1248
On July 19 2016 14:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2016 14:22 Skynx wrote:
We can just get him banned from tl for disrespecting the community over multitude of pages of spam. The thing is I don't know which post is more worthy of a report. My report stats are pretty bad tho :/
This might all be some periodic-post-trauma stuff btw and maybe he's a perfect human being normally who might come back in few months and tear up the competition who knows.


He is on the semi-permanent ban list, and in general please do not report posts in TL Mafia. He won't be back any time soon, and if he does want to come back, we will have a chat.

Obviously one shouldn't report posts made within the context of actual live games, but aren't all the other threads (like this one) just like any other TL thread?
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
July 19 2016 12:33 GMT
#1249
On July 19 2016 21:24 Alur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2016 14:32 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 19 2016 14:22 Skynx wrote:
We can just get him banned from tl for disrespecting the community over multitude of pages of spam. The thing is I don't know which post is more worthy of a report. My report stats are pretty bad tho :/
This might all be some periodic-post-trauma stuff btw and maybe he's a perfect human being normally who might come back in few months and tear up the competition who knows.


He is on the semi-permanent ban list, and in general please do not report posts in TL Mafia. He won't be back any time soon, and if he does want to come back, we will have a chat.

Obviously one shouldn't report posts made within the context of actual live games, but aren't all the other threads (like this one) just like any other TL thread?


No we treat the entire mafia sub fourm as our own playground... I kinda think it shouldnt be but hey its been that way since GMarshal ran things.
Try TL Mafia!!!
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16326 Posts
July 19 2016 12:37 GMT
#1250
On July 19 2016 21:24 Alur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2016 14:32 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 19 2016 14:22 Skynx wrote:
We can just get him banned from tl for disrespecting the community over multitude of pages of spam. The thing is I don't know which post is more worthy of a report. My report stats are pretty bad tho :/
This might all be some periodic-post-trauma stuff btw and maybe he's a perfect human being normally who might come back in few months and tear up the competition who knows.


He is on the semi-permanent ban list, and in general please do not report posts in TL Mafia. He won't be back any time soon, and if he does want to come back, we will have a chat.

Obviously one shouldn't report posts made within the context of actual live games, but aren't all the other threads (like this one) just like any other TL thread?

I don't think so. And they really shouldn't be because that would be really stupid.
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
July 19 2016 12:39 GMT
#1251
On July 19 2016 20:53 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2016 20:01 Onegu wrote:
On July 18 2016 17:41 justanothertownie wrote:
On July 18 2016 11:13 Onegu wrote:
Koshi someone ruined my game because I DIDNT modkill for failure to vote day 1. Thoughts???

So?
That guy is an idiot. Your ban proposals are very justified and correct in my opinion. Don't know what it has to do with Koshi and his (also correct) stance on modkills for nonvotes.



Just found it ironic I got blasted for modkilling on first non vote in my first game hosting. And a gamed ruined because the guy thought I should have modkilled for first non vote.

Case of damned if you do damned if you don't....

The person who thinks you should modkill somebody for not voting is clearly an idiot.

The idea behind not modkilling for failure to vote is the following:

Failure to vote does not affect the game. It only affects possible Vote Analysis. However, not voting, or voting on a 1 person wagon can be analysed. However, modkilling a person tremendously affect the game, almost nobody doesn't vote on purpose. So in normal games it is going to prolong the game 10/13 times but make it so dumb because town lost a ml and the information with that, so it is just a slower loss. While the 3/13 times it is a mafia that didn't vote their team really gets fucked but people tend to say that mafia teams are as strong as their strongest member so I guess it might be easier to salvage than for town? Not sure about that at all.

It comes down that almost all modkills are extremely bad for the game, and that people spend 3-5 hours a day for 2 weeks straight trying to solve the puzzle. modkilling for something that has almost no impact on the solving aspect of the game is ridiculous and cancerous to me.


We are lucky we play with a lot of dedicated players that keep up activity through the entire game. Failure to vote is the worst reason to modkill a person in this good activity environment on TL.




PS: for example, in your game Alakaslam had a 3 page filter and the only reason he failed to vote was because he didn't realize there was a voting thread and "voted" int he main thread. Modkilling a person for that was a fucking joke and if Jeebus himself comes down from Heaven and explains to me I am wrong I would still call him a retard and tell him to gtfo back to heaven because he doesn't understand shit.


tldr: because some idiot was being idiotic it doesn't change the fact that the alakaslam modkill in your game was a farce. And my modkill + 3 games ban for saying it was a farce and being very upset in the thread (without excessive flaming) was the joke of the 21th century.



Yes koshi I know it was a mistake to modkill him. I realized it right after I did it. I tried to convey that to you. You wouldnt stop. It was my first game hosting, I fucked up. I know I fucked up. You know I fucked up. You still went apeshit after I told you in PMs to stop and keep it in PM land with me. I hold no grudges with you. I think you went off the deepend at some point but no grudges. I still fondly remember our first game together. Nuclear Winter Mafia as it was my first town game and you were the only scum I figured out.
Try TL Mafia!!!
Skynx
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Turkey7150 Posts
July 19 2016 12:58 GMT
#1252
On July 19 2016 21:33 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2016 21:24 Alur wrote:
On July 19 2016 14:32 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 19 2016 14:22 Skynx wrote:
We can just get him banned from tl for disrespecting the community over multitude of pages of spam. The thing is I don't know which post is more worthy of a report. My report stats are pretty bad tho :/
This might all be some periodic-post-trauma stuff btw and maybe he's a perfect human being normally who might come back in few months and tear up the competition who knows.


He is on the semi-permanent ban list, and in general please do not report posts in TL Mafia. He won't be back any time soon, and if he does want to come back, we will have a chat.

Obviously one shouldn't report posts made within the context of actual live games, but aren't all the other threads (like this one) just like any other TL thread?


No we treat the entire mafia sub fourm as our own playground... I kinda think it shouldnt be but hey its been that way since GMarshal ran things.

Thats sick lol
"When seagulls follow the troller, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much" - King Cantona | STX 4 eva
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
July 19 2016 13:59 GMT
#1253
On July 19 2016 21:33 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2016 21:24 Alur wrote:
On July 19 2016 14:32 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 19 2016 14:22 Skynx wrote:
We can just get him banned from tl for disrespecting the community over multitude of pages of spam. The thing is I don't know which post is more worthy of a report. My report stats are pretty bad tho :/
This might all be some periodic-post-trauma stuff btw and maybe he's a perfect human being normally who might come back in few months and tear up the competition who knows.


He is on the semi-permanent ban list, and in general please do not report posts in TL Mafia. He won't be back any time soon, and if he does want to come back, we will have a chat.

Obviously one shouldn't report posts made within the context of actual live games, but aren't all the other threads (like this one) just like any other TL thread?


No we treat the entire mafia sub fourm as our own playground... I kinda think it shouldnt be but hey its been that way since GMarshal ran things.

Yeah, that's how it is. Unless a certain person is involved...
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Shapelog
Profile Joined November 2015
United States5188 Posts
July 19 2016 20:05 GMT
#1254
Btw, Idk if it has been 5 games or not, but if so, I get a 1 game ban for not voting in accordance of tortoise 5 game warning thing.

Ik I def been in 3, and hosted 2 games (if they count lol) since then at least.
"Subsequently clicking post is like launching a doomsday's worth of nukes' equivalent in dopamine." -RB
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
July 19 2016 22:12 GMT
#1255
I modkill non-voters purely because it's easy to vote and there is rarely a reason to have not voted (also all the town WIFOM about host non killing/punishing Mafia players and all that rabble). I'd rather replace and go for a punishment though.
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
July 20 2016 02:24 GMT
#1256
rules aren't about being followed, they're about trying to make for a good game.

too many modkills for things that don't really matter ruin games. modkills mostly suck more for the game than a missing vote. i didn't even notice that shapelog missed a vote in that game just now.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
July 28 2016 16:14 GMT
#1257
No actions requested for who needs 72 hours anyway
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
July 28 2016 16:32 GMT
#1258
On July 29 2016 01:14 Damdred wrote:
No actions requested for who needs 72 hours anyway

I would like to be written somewhere that Race Bannon's cohosting was super bad. In addition to him keeping people from talking while he posted random videos himself for several hours at the start of D3 and D4, these two posts should not have happened:
On July 26 2016 18:14 Race Bannon wrote:
nope



#wait4iiit

Show nested quote +
Original Message From xxxxxxx!xxxxxxxxxxxxx!xxx!xxxxxx!xxxxx!xxxx!xxxxxxllllllxlxllxlxlxllllttotltltltlllteelllelllllllllpiem: troll
I'm sorry I'm super confused can we post or not?

On July 28 2016 15:17 Race Bannon wrote:
What is this?
ShapelogPerson was signed in when posted
07-20-2016
05:16 PM ET (US)
Welcome ladies and Gentleman, To Shapelog's Rant QT for this wonderful game. I made this because I was clogging up the Host QT with game related stuff.

A quick Synopsis of what has happen.

-I found Rel's intro where he jumped on people and his funky mix of tone scummy.
-Emp is doing what I do as town.
-Skynx i have drinked no sugar added tea. Black tea isn't my taste.
-D1 flavor is great.

!explainyoselffool#

In the first post he discloses a PM that he received from a player. In the second he posts something Shape (also a cohost in this game) wrote in a hidden QT. Both of these infos are NOT supposed to be in the game.

I don't want him to be banned, it serves no purpose. What I want is that he is not allowed to host or cohost ever again UNLESS he promises to stop doing stuff that harms the game. And that he faces the consequences (ban for example) if he doesn't keep his promise.
Race Bannon
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
689 Posts
July 28 2016 16:36 GMT
#1259
orly. lol
https://youtube.com/watch?v=KqEaAHqYkig Original Message From Tumblewood: dear god
Race Bannon
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
689 Posts
July 28 2016 16:37 GMT
#1260
9 First of all this is a themed game and you have no basis for your rant
https://youtube.com/watch?v=KqEaAHqYkig Original Message From Tumblewood: dear god
Prev 1 61 62 63 64 65 91 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
KungFu Cup 2026 Week 8
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JimRising 729
RuFF_SC2 204
ProTech67
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5799
Movie 86
Shine 64
Bale 57
NaDa 45
Terrorterran 9
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm164
Counter-Strike
Doublelift2350
taco 785
Fnx 428
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox402
Other Games
Day[9].tv770
PiGStarcraft691
shahzam650
C9.Mang0535
monkeys_forever263
WinterStarcraft183
Maynarde144
Trikslyr44
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL339
Other Games
BasetradeTV90
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 73
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush801
Other Games
• Scarra1375
• Day9tv770
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
7h 43m
GSL
1d 6h
herO vs Classic
Cure vs Clem
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 11h
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL
2 days
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
Maestros of the Game
4 days
IPSL
4 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
YSL S3
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.