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On July 30 2015 01:06 Rels wrote:
noobking's explanation on me if cop not checking him is late and makes no sense
Actually, it makes PERFECT sense.
On July 30 2015 01:06 Rels wrote:I DONT understand how that explain the fact that I wouldn't check him if I was the cop. Can you (yes, you, reading this) read the quote above, then tell me if it made sense to you ? That would be much appreciated.
And I don't understand how there could possibly be two people on this same Earth (you and ruXxar) who do not understand it. You tried to sit there and expect that people should make sense of your explanations of all your backtracking and double-speak, for how you mistook "VT" to mean "Townie" and how you accidentally said "prepared post" to mean something entirely different, and how it could somehow be plausible that when you say a bunch of remarks are all spontaneous, off-the-cuff reactions, the post that they're in could still be something that the author "thought long and hard before posting." Yet you can't make sense of the simple and basic truth that your posts rule you out as a Cop who would turn in a check on me. It is baffling.
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On July 30 2015 01:29 disformation wrote:
Not sure why MoosyDoosy singled me out like this when like half the players have a list very similar to mine. Like Damdred just posted his version 1 page ago. Pocketing/Buddying attempt? Prolly getting paranoid.
Getting less sure about Breshke and Sulfurus.
Is it NocturneMage and 1 of n00bKIng or MoosyDoosy?
How would it be possible for me to be Scum, disformation? How can that reality exist, given the way that the game has played out? Are you just going to plaster a big "WIFOM" sticker over every single instance where I've done something that is detrimental to the Scum win condition? I knew Ticktock had to be Town because he and I had been step-for-step so much of the way, and there's NO chance that a Scum Ticktock plays against his own agenda so many times, in so many ways. There isn't enough WIFOM in the world to explain away all the things that he did (and I've done) that would have brought the Mafia closer to defeat, if either of us were on the team. I would really like to hear someone explain why, if I were Mafia, I would continuously be putting the dagger in my own heart. Is there even any theory at all for how that's possible, that can't simply be summarized as "WIFOM" and nothing more?
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On July 30 2015 01:27 n00bKing wrote:Did you fail to notice that it is no less sick if he's Scum than if he's Town? (Probably. Failing to notice stuff has kinda been your thing in this game.)
Didn't think I said it was town indicative. Reading a few filters ... no I didn't.
On July 30 2015 01:27 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 00:37 Rels wrote:- the people instantly switching from scott when he claimed are town I'm pretty sure: TT(-_-), moosy, disfo. Dumb thing to say, when you've even admitted that Scott's allegiance isn't known, and have told the Vigilante to shoot him. (Which is indeed the correct play for the Vigilante.)
Yeah maybe that's true.
On July 30 2015 01:27 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 00:37 Rels wrote:- on the other hand, noobking's position is so weird. A little bit of sceptisism is OK, but saying he's willing to lynch scott over TT 10 minutes before deadline (which would mean NocturneMage is cop BTW) is super suspicious. Plus when I asked him his reasons, he said scott's claim was "illogical" ... WTF It does NOT mean NocturneMage is the Cop. You are wrong, as usual. Breshke could just as easily be the Cop, as he was afk during that same time-frame. This has already been mentioned before, but you DON'T READ. And there is NOTHING weird about my position. I said Scott's claim was "illogical" for all of the reasons that it WAS illogical. It is hilarious (pathetic, but hilarious) that this is like the 5th different time now that you've tried to bash me for having skepticism about Scott's claim. Yet you don't have A THING to say to this guy: Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 06:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##unvote
##Vote scott31337
There is no way flexes has sent in a check.
Impossible. Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 06:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It doesnt make any sense at all.
The dude is in the middle of writing a reads post.
He disappears, as a cop. He never comes back, gets replaced.
BUT HE HAS SOMEHOW SENT IN A COP CHECK?!?!?!
rofl Show nested quote +
On July 29 2015 06:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dont believefor a second scott is cop.
You are allowing your intense bias to blind you every step of the way. Identical behavior from two players, and you jump all over it from one of them, yet have no reservations continuing to consider the other confirmed Town.
LOL you're not reading the posts you're quoting.
On July 30 2015 00:37 Rels wrote:
- on the other hand, noobking's position is so weird. A little bit of sceptisism is OK
So you and rayn doubting scott's claim is good. But you wanna know why this if false ?
On July 30 2015 01:27 n00bKing wrote:
Identical behavior from two players
Here is rayn final answer to the situation:
On July 29 2015 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Whatever.
Lets not lynch scott then unless cc.
Here is yours:
On July 29 2015 06:48 n00bKing wrote:
Would not be happy about lynching Scott without a CC, but...might still do it, to save Ticktock.
On July 30 2015 01:27 n00bKing wrote:
You are also failing to notice that (just like everything else I've done the entire game) there is NO scum motivation for me to try and get Scott lynched there, even if he's the real Cop. A lynched Cop is not any better for the Mafia than an outed Cop.
This is soooo false. scott if he lives is confirmed town, so he has to be shot or be a confirmed town in LYLO. TT if he lives ... is still suspicious and can be lynched.
Really, what you just said is so bad.
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No one is getting your explanation about rels n00bking, so how about you explain it again.
If n00bKing is Scum, and knows there is a Cop in the game, he can be very confident that he will not be checked by Rels (even on the off chance that Rels is that Cop, which is already unlikely for reasons that I can't explain without damaging the Town)
Let me try to recap what you're saying and you can correct me if I'm wrong.
Please answer the questions in simple sentences that I can understand.
1) If you are scum, and know there is a cop in the game you can be very confident that you will not be checked by rels.
- Why? Give a clear answer.
2) There is a very low chance that rels is cop.
- Why? Give a clear answer.
These are the answers you gave to these questions so far, and they don't explain anything:
1) If Rels were the Cop, he would not check me, because during the Night Phase, he posted suggestions to the power roles, and he gave only ONE name to the Cop, and that name was MINE.
Children have wondrous imaginations, so use yours, and put yourself in the shoes of a Rels who is the Cop. Imagine you're the Cop, and during the Night Phase, you suggest who the Cop should target. Imagine you give only one name. Then imagine that you...go ahead and turn in a check on that name.
Did you notice how your brain stopped you and said "No, no, that's stupid"? Okay then. If there is a Cop in the setup, I don't think the Mafia can be particularly sure it isn't Rels. They can only be sure that if Rels is the Cop, he's not going to check ME. I gave suggestions to the Cop on who to check. Doesn't mean I'm not the Cop. But I wouldn't give a one-name suggestion, and if I did, I am not checking that guy.
This doesn't explain why it's stupid. Also rels still got role-blocked, so someone must've believed he was the cop.
2) No explanation of why it's a low chance that he's cop. You didn't explain why there is a low chance he's cop BECAUSE it's damaging to town.
Why was it damaging to town?
What was damaging to the Town is my belief that RELS AIN'T NO POWER ROLE in this game.
Doesn't explain why it's a low chance he's the cop, so your "damaging explanation for why he isn't the cop" isn't an explanation at all.
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On July 30 2015 01:36 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:06 Rels wrote:
noobking's explanation on me if cop not checking him is late and makes no sense Actually, it makes PERFECT sense. Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:06 Rels wrote:I DONT understand how that explain the fact that I wouldn't check him if I was the cop. Can you (yes, you, reading this) read the quote above, then tell me if it made sense to you ? That would be much appreciated. And I don't understand how there could possibly be two people on this same Earth (you and ruXxar) who do not understand it. You tried to sit there and expect that people should make sense of your explanations of all your backtracking and double-speak, for how you mistook "VT" to mean "Townie" and how you accidentally said "prepared post" to mean something entirely different, and how it could somehow be plausible that when you say a bunch of remarks are all spontaneous, off-the-cuff reactions, the post that they're in could still be something that the author "thought long and hard before posting." Yet you can't make sense of the simple and basic truth that your posts rule you out as a Cop who would turn in a check on me. It is baffling.
Even if you believe I'm lying, you understand what I'm saying : that I used prepared post for post that is prepared before posting, etc.
In my case, I DON'T understand your reasonning, fake or not.
In your situation, I am cop. I said I would check you. I didn't check you.
And the reason is:
On July 28 2015 04:20 n00bKing wrote:
Children have wondrous imaginations, so use yours, and put yourself in the shoes of a Rels who is the Cop. Imagine you're the Cop, and during the Night Phase, you suggest who the Cop should target. Imagine you give only one name. Then imagine that you...go ahead and turn in a check on that name.
Did you notice how your brain stopped you and said "No, no, that's stupid"? Okay then.
I don't get it.
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Rels is it just us that are stupid?
Maybe I need to go take an IQ test.
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On July 30 2015 02:09 ruXxar wrote:
Rels is it just us that are stupid?
Maybe I need to go take an IQ test.
Stay strong bro. Dont let them hurt you.
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On July 30 2015 01:54 Rels wrote:
Didn't think I said it was town indicative. Reading a few filters ... no I didn't.
The implication is clear, from you saying that the people switching from Scott when he claimed are Town. Would you like to backtrack and self-contradict on this, too?
On July 30 2015 01:54 Rels wrote:LOL you're not reading the posts you're quoting.
Are you reading any posts at all? Except for a short moment of clarity, when you understood that all of your arguments against me were hollow and empty, you have generally shown no awareness of what is going on in the game, whatsoever.
Here was that moment:
Rels wrote: I wrote a big post saying how he was mafia for a tons of reasons, and when I reread it before posting I realize most of it was nonsense. I'm pretty happy I did not post it. I mean, read his last posts. He got progressively angry and started using majs. Mafia are usually calmer than that.
Note that you thinking "Maybe n00bKing is the Cop" does not even BEGIN to explain that post. There were many, many ways for you to know that most of what you had typed up was "nonsense." None of them had anything to do with the possibility of me being Cop. Do not lie to me again, and try to tell me that the only reason you completely backed off of your suspicions of me, was that you thought I might be the Cop.
On July 30 2015 00:37 Rels wrote:So you and rayn doubting scott's claim is good. But you wanna know why this if false ? Here is rayn final answer to the situation: Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Whatever.
Lets not lynch scott then unless cc.
Here is yours: Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 06:48 n00bKing wrote:
Would not be happy about lynching Scott without a CC, but...might still do it, to save Ticktock.
That is not comparing apples to apples. You are distorting reality, to try and force it to fit your bias. You mentioned that I said Scott's claim was "illogical" and you said "WTF." That means you're indicating that the claim was not illogical. So I showed you 3 posts from rayn where it is clear that he understands Scott's claim is ILLOGICAL. So argue with both of us, and not just me, or shut up about it already. You can't say "WTF" to me calling it illogical without saying "WTF" about him. The fact that I would have saved Ticktock over the illogical claim and rayn would lynch Ticktock over the illogical claim is (as I said) not remotely an apples to apples comparison. rayn is comparing the illogical claim to his TOP Scum read, Ticktock. I am comparing the illogical claim to my extremely strong TOWN read, Ticktock. And even though Ticktock had been rayn's #1 Scum read all day before the claim, it STILL took a while for him to decide to not lynch Scott. That shows you just how illogical the claim is.
You completely ignored the part of my post where I corrected you, and said that Breshke could also be the real Cop. Why did you lie and say that only NocturneMage could be the real Cop, and then sweep the true and correct situation under the rug? I continue to provide good information for the Town to use, and you continue to obstruct it.
On July 30 2015 01:54 Rels wrote:
This is soooo false. scott if he lives is confirmed town, so he has to be shot or be a confirmed town in LYLO. TT if he lives ... is still suspicious and can be lynched.
You are soooo bad at thinking. Ticktock if he lives is "still suspicious?" Ticktock was NEVER suspicious. And he's much more likely to be an asset to the Town than Scott is. There is no question that if I were Scum, I would rather see Ticktock lynched there than Scott. Not only because Ticktock is more dangerous as a player, but also because if Ticktock flips Town, then the fact that he and I shared one mind this game is Town-indicative for ME. If I'm Scum, I can't WAIT for Ticktock to be lynched. Not to mention the fact that Scott was NEVER who I was trying to lynch at EoD in the first place. Did you forget that too? Or is that just something else you DIDN'T READ? I specifically said I wasn't comfortable lynching Scott without a counterclaim, and listed off the players that I would rather lynch instead. Would I still lynch him before Ticktock, though? Hell yes. Because Ticktock can't be helping me attack the Mafia at every turn, and himself be Mafia. Mafia does not play against their own win condition that often and that long. He could only be Town, sure as I can only be Town. Scott did NOT have to be Town, because his claim was illogical.
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On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:
No one is getting your explanation about rels n00bking, so how about you explain it again.
I'm sure you're wrong. I bet the hosts get my explanation just fine. I bet everyone in Obs gets my explanation just fine. I bet there are other players in the game right now who will get my explanation just fine, and just haven't seen it yet. Or who get it just fine, and simply haven't said so, because they would rather talk about other things. Far as I know, you and Rels are the only people on Earth who don't get it.
On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:
1) If you are scum, and know there is a cop in the game you can be very confident that you will not be checked by rels.
OBVIOUSLY.
On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:- Why? Give a clear answer.
Because his suggestions to the Cop included only ONE name, and I was that name. This is common sense, ruXxar. You asked me earlier to talk to you like you were 5. If you were 5, I still expect you to understand why Rels the Cop has a 0% chance of turning in a check on me in Night 1. 0.00%
On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:2) There is a very low chance that rels is cop.
That is not what I said. I can't even count the number of times that you and Rels have now tried to tell me I said something that I absolutely, positively never said. The strongest verbiage I would have ever used is "unlikely." Nothing anywhere near the ballpark of very low. And as I have reminded you of twice (and even went and found the post for you about it!) I went OUT OF MY WAY to make sure it was clear that I was saying Rels could ABSOLUTELY still be the Cop, in any scenario where I am not Scum. (I knew better, but I made sure they would have no idea as to why that might be.)
On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:These are the answers you gave to these questions so far, and they don't explain anything: 1) Show nested quote +If Rels were the Cop, he would not check me, because during the Night Phase, he posted suggestions to the power roles, and he gave only ONE name to the Cop, and that name was MINE.
Children have wondrous imaginations, so use yours, and put yourself in the shoes of a Rels who is the Cop. Imagine you're the Cop, and during the Night Phase, you suggest who the Cop should target. Imagine you give only one name. Then imagine that you...go ahead and turn in a check on that name.
Did you notice how your brain stopped you and said "No, no, that's stupid"? Okay then. Show nested quote +If there is a Cop in the setup, I don't think the Mafia can be particularly sure it isn't Rels. They can only be sure that if Rels is the Cop, he's not going to check ME. I gave suggestions to the Cop on who to check. Doesn't mean I'm not the Cop. But I wouldn't give a one-name suggestion, and if I did, I am not checking that guy. This doesn't explain why it's stupid.
Sure it does. That explains everything fully and perfectly. Whoever wrote that explanation has common sense, and is using it (which is all that is needed here).
On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote: Also rels still got role-blocked, so someone must've believed he was the cop.
WHY? Yes, it is *possible* that the Mafia thought Rels might be the Cop, even though I had reason to believe otherwise. They can't be sure that Rels the Cop does not exist, they can only be sure that Rels the Cop would not turn in a check on n00bKing. Nothing else. But them roleblocking him does not ensure that they believed he was the Cop. And we've already covered the alternative explanation ad nauseam.
On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:2) No explanation of why it's a low chance that he's cop. You didn't explain why there is a low chance he's cop BECAUSE it's damaging to town.
Again, low chance is not what I said. But yes, I did not explain why he was unlikely to be the Cop because the explanation would be damaging to the Town. If I explain why I believe that Rels ain't no power role in this game, then the Mafia can look at my reasoning and be like "Yeah, that adds up. He's probably right, Rels ain't no power role in this game." That's NOT information I want them to have. So I can't (and didn't) go into the details.
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On July 30 2015 01:59 Rels wrote:
Even if you believe I'm lying, you understand what I'm saying : that I used prepared post for post that is prepared before posting, etc.
Let me clarify yet again. I don't just believe/think/suspect that you're lying. You lied. And your retcon is dumb. It never made sense. It never will make sense.
On July 30 2015 01:59 Rels wrote:In your situation, I am cop. I said I would check you. I didn't check you.
As naturally you would not. Common sense.
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On July 30 2015 02:32 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:54 Rels wrote:
Didn't think I said it was town indicative. Reading a few filters ... no I didn't. The implication is clear, from you saying that the people switching from Scott when he claimed are Town. Would you like to backtrack and self-contradict on this, too?
LOL.
Of course I think scott is town without CC.
This is NOT what you said though:
On July 30 2015 01:27 n00bKing wrote:Did you fail to notice that it is no less sick if he's Scum than if he's Town? (Probably. Failing to notice stuff has kinda been your thing in this game.)
You said to me that the breadcrumb didn't make scott town. That is something I NEVER said. So you misrepresentated my position.
On July 30 2015 02:32 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:54 Rels wrote:LOL you're not reading the posts you're quoting. Are you reading any posts at all? Except for a short moment of clarity, when you understood that all of your arguments against me were hollow and empty, you have generally shown no awareness of what is going on in the game, whatsoever. Here was that moment: Show nested quote +Rels wrote: I wrote a big post saying how he was mafia for a tons of reasons, and when I reread it before posting I realize most of it was nonsense. I'm pretty happy I did not post it. I mean, read his last posts. He got progressively angry and started using majs. Mafia are usually calmer than that. Note that you thinking "Maybe n00bKing is the Cop" does not even BEGIN to explain that post. There were many, many ways for you to know that most of what you had typed up was "nonsense." None of them had anything to do with the possibility of me being Cop. Do not lie to me again, and try to tell me that the only reason you completely backed off of your suspicions of me, was that you thought I might be the Cop.
I wrote a shit case. A few points were good though, but they were all explaind by you being cop. Yes I completely backed off my suspicions of you 'cause I thought you were cop, right here:
On July 27 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 18:03 n00bKing wrote:On July 27 2015 17:59 Rels wrote:On July 27 2015 17:57 n00bKing wrote:On July 27 2015 17:50 Rels wrote:On July 27 2015 17:47 n00bKing wrote:On July 27 2015 17:26 Rels wrote:
Wow this is ridiculous. That is WIFOM, not worse than WIFOM. Look at these possibility:
1
noobking is a mafia (not GF). Rels said he was going to check noobking. The mafia team has to roleblock Rels to avoid a red check.
2
Flexes is mafia. Rels said he was going to shoot Flexes. The mafia team has to roleblock Rels to avoir a mafia kill. Those are not reasonable "possibilities." If Flexes is Scum, and knows there is a Vigilante in the game, he can be very confident that he will not be shot by Rels (even on the off chance that Rels is that Vigilante, which is already unlikely for reasons that I can't explain without damaging the Town). If n00bKing is Scum, and knows there is a Cop in the game, he can be very confident that he will not be checked by Rels (even on the off chance that Rels is that Cop, which is already unlikely for reasons that I can't explain without damaging the Town). The second scenario is particularly ludicrous, because you're trying to tell me that after I spent Day 1 and Night 1 painting you as a suspect, I then up and ROLEBLOCKED you, in a game where there is a guaranteed Scum roleblocker but no possibility of a Town roleblocker. ??? I agree that if you are mafia, it's bad for you to roleblock me (or kill me). BUT if you know there is a cop in the setup, you have no choice but to do that. Bad situation but wifomable > red check. lol, NONSENSE. What didn't you understand about "If n00bKing is Scum, and knows there is a Cop in the game, he can be very confident that he will not be checked by Rels (even on the off chance that Rels is that Cop, which is already unlikely for reasons that I can't explain without damaging the Town)."? I don't understand. You are saying: - I'm probably not the cop - On the off-chance I'm the cop, I won't check you I don't understand why you are saying that. Especially the second part. HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?? I still don't get why you are saying this: - On the off-chance I'm the cop, I won't check you This is going nowhere. Let's stop here.
On July 30 2015 02:32 n00bKing wrote:
You completely ignored the part of my post where I corrected you, and said that Breshke could also be the real Cop. Why did you lie and say that only NocturneMage could be the real Cop, and then sweep the true and correct situation under the rug? I continue to provide good information for the Town to use, and you continue to obstruct it.
You're fucking right I fucking forgot a part where you lied. Breshke posted this 25 minutes before deadline:
On July 29 2015 06:35 Breshke wrote:
People need to relax this is a newbie gAme without a CC it is possible flexes lied AS TOWN and had nothing when he said he was writing his opinions on people and actually did return during the night.
##unvote
##vote ticktock
So in your post where you said you would lynch scott instead of TT, Breshke couldn't be cop. It was 12 minutes before deadline.
On July 29 2015 06:48 n00bKing wrote:
Would not be happy about lynching Scott without a CC, but...might still do it, to save Ticktock.
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On July 30 2015 02:48 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:59 Rels wrote:
Even if you believe I'm lying, you understand what I'm saying : that I used prepared post for post that is prepared before posting, etc. Let me clarify yet again. I don't just believe/think/suspect that you're lying. You lied.
Once again you're lying about me lying.
I asked you a sentence explaining how I lied. You wrote it. There were no lie in it.
Liar.
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Not sure I like n00bKing's reaction to my suggestion he might be mafia...
recap:
prolly 1+ of:
Sulfurus, Breshke, NocturneMage
Maybeeee 1of:
MoosyDoosy, n00bKing
(unless scott fakeclaimed obv)
need to reevaluate my reevaluation of my reevaluation.
watching that ant man thing now. will be back in like 3hours.
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If anyone thinks that Rels + n00bKing isn't your townie shit fight they need to go kill themselves.
And don't make me disappointed in you disformation...I already said that I do attempt to pocket towns for my townie circle and I've been doing that this whole game except with ruXxar.
Also, if anyone thinks that I was intentionally playing scummy af because I'm Godfather, they need to clean their eyes. Bashing ruXxar is pretty standard because he is dumb and I always say things like I'm Mafia. If you want to go at that angle then you also have to take into account both ruXxar and Tictock who also did suspicious things and lynch them as well. Oh wait, we already lynched Tictock. And look how THAT turned out. lol
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On July 30 2015 03:02 Rels wrote:
So you misrepresentated my position.
Nope. I repeat, "the implication is clear."
On July 30 2015 03:02 Rels wrote:I wrote a shit case. A few points were good though, but they were all explaind by you being cop. Yes I completely backed off my suspicions of you 'cause I thought you were cop
I don't believe you. I think you knew that there were other reasons (besides the possibility I could be Cop) to believe I am Town, and you just don't want to admit it anymore, because it hurts your chances of getting the lynch you've decided you want. And this, after I SPECIFICALLY asked you not to lie to me about it. My feelings are hurt.
On July 30 2015 03:02 Rels wrote:
Breshke posted this 25 minutes before deadline:
Hadn't ever seen that post before. Looks like it came in seconds before my WoT about why Ticktock has to be Town. So once my post went up, his got pushed off the top of my screen. So I'm not sure who said the only people that can counterclaim Scott are Mage and Breshke, and am not sure when they said it. But I just assumed that was true, as I haven't re-read Breshke yet. Apparently Mage is the only possible Cop if Scott is fakeclaiming.
I find it funny that in your entire diatribe, the ONE and only thing you were right about, is the one thing you failed to respond to. And I had to bring it back up again myself, in order that it could be shown that I was wrong. I guess that doesn't sound like anything a Mafia player would do, huh? But anyway, it seems that I was mistaken about Breshke being a possible counterclaim for Mage, so I will withdraw that statement. Because see, this is what a TOWN player does when they turn out to be mistaken about something. As opposed to covering it up with a lie, and then standing by that lie for the entire rest of the game, like someone else we know.
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On July 30 2015 02:45 n00bKing wrote:Because his suggestions to the Cop included only ONE name, and I was that name. This is common sense, ruXxar. You asked me earlier to talk to you like you were 5. If you were 5, I still expect you to understand why Rels the Cop has a 0% chance of turning in a check on me in Night 1. 0.00% This is not an explanation.
On July 30 2015 02:45 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:These are the answers you gave to these questions so far, and they don't explain anything: 1) If Rels were the Cop, he would not check me, because during the Night Phase, he posted suggestions to the power roles, and he gave only ONE name to the Cop, and that name was MINE.
Children have wondrous imaginations, so use yours, and put yourself in the shoes of a Rels who is the Cop. Imagine you're the Cop, and during the Night Phase, you suggest who the Cop should target. Imagine you give only one name. Then imagine that you...go ahead and turn in a check on that name.
Did you notice how your brain stopped you and said "No, no, that's stupid"? Okay then. If there is a Cop in the setup, I don't think the Mafia can be particularly sure it isn't Rels. They can only be sure that if Rels is the Cop, he's not going to check ME. I gave suggestions to the Cop on who to check. Doesn't mean I'm not the Cop. But I wouldn't give a one-name suggestion, and if I did, I am not checking that guy. This doesn't explain why it's stupid. Sure it does. That explains everything fully and perfectly. Whoever wrote that explanation has common sense, and is using it (which is all that is needed here). This is not an explanation.
On July 30 2015 02:45 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote: Also rels still got role-blocked, so someone must've believed he was the cop. WHY? Yes, it is *possible* that the Mafia thought Rels might be the Cop, even though I had reason to believe otherwise. They can't be sure that Rels the Cop does not exist, they can only be sure that Rels the Cop would not turn in a check on n00bKing. Nothing else. But them roleblocking him does not ensure that they believed he was the Cop. And we've already covered the alternative explanation ad nauseam. Why?
On July 30 2015 02:45 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:2) No explanation of why it's a low chance that he's cop. You didn't explain why there is a low chance he's cop BECAUSE it's damaging to town. Again, low chance is not what I said. But yes, I did not explain why he was unlikely to be the Cop because the explanation would be damaging to the Town. If I explain why I believe that Rels ain't no power role in this game, then the Mafia can look at my reasoning and be like "Yeah, that adds up. He's probably right, Rels ain't no power role in this game." That's NOT information I want them to have. So I can't (and didn't) go into the details. We already have our 2 power role claims.
Unless you are EXACTLY the cop, there is no reason you can't tell us.
Please make your answers explicit for why what you said makes sense and don't refer to common sense as if I'm supposed to magically understand what you mean.
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On July 30 2015 02:48 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 01:59 Rels wrote:In your situation, I am cop. I said I would check you. I didn't check you. As naturally you would not. Common sense.
I don't understand. I will never town read you if I don't understand that.
Alright going diner then sleep so see you tomorrow.
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On July 30 2015 03:42 ruXxar wrote:
This is not an explanation.
Of course it is. You don't have to like an explanation for it to be one. You don't have common sense? Okay. But the fact remains: 0.00% chance that Rels the Cop turns in a check on me. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. There is no chance in hell that check was ever going to happen, after what he posted. And no chance in hell that I (as Scum) could possibly fear it was going to happen, after what he posted. Rels being roleblocked is potent proof that I am Town.
On July 30 2015 03:42 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 02:45 n00bKing wrote:
Again, low chance is not what I said. But yes, I did not explain why he was unlikely to be the Cop because the explanation would be damaging to the Town. If I explain why I believe that Rels ain't no power role in this game, then the Mafia can look at my reasoning and be like "Yeah, that adds up. He's probably right, Rels ain't no power role in this game." That's NOT information I want them to have. So I can't (and didn't) go into the details.
We already have our 2 power role claims. Unless you are EXACTLY the cop, there is no reason you can't tell us.
I was speaking of that moment. I can't (and didn't) go into the details at that moment. As for "already have our 2 claims"...what's the matter, ruXxar? Are you scum, and know that Scott is the Cop? And won't be counterclaimed by NocturneMage because he is your scumbuddy? Because that seems to me to be THE ONLY way for you to know that we don't have any more roleclaims coming.
Additionally, I am STRONGLY reminded of this post:On July 29 2015 02:23 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 02:18 n00bKing wrote:
Going to take a minute to explain what I mean when I say "pure WIFOM" as it will be relevant in some of my posts throughout the rest of the game, including the Town Case on Ticktock (if it's needed today) and a Town Case on myself (if it's needed any other day).
If you look at the original WIFOM scenario, in the movie, it is what I would call "pure WIFOM." Disregard Westley's immunity, and the fact that it would turn out both goblets were poisoned. Instead, just consider the game as it is presented to Vizzini (and as it is presented to the audience).
In that scenario, there is really no incentive for the person staging the game to put the poison in one goblet as opposed to the other. There is no advantage or disadvantage to picking one or the other, since the opponent can just switch them. Everything is a pure 50/50, because the person being presented with the choice has NO way of knowing where the poison will be placed, and the person staging the game has NO way of knowing whether the opponent will choose to switch the goblets.
But although that WIFOM scenario was 50/50, not all of them are. Sometimes the person staging the game (in this case, the Mafia) will have incentive to not make a certain choice. And the only reason for them to go ahead and make that choice anyway is to "look Townie." They play against their own agenda, for the sake of hoping that people will think "Since Scum wouldn't want to do that...they must not be Scum." This is not pure WIFOM, because the Mafia has reasons NOT to do that thing. Thus, doing that thing is slighty-to-somewhat Town indicative. Not hugely indicative, because it's still WIFOM. But it isn't NAI, because it isn't pure WIFOM.
A couple of players in this game have made posts that indicate they aren't aware of (or at least aren't factoring in) these varying levels or degrees of WIFOM. Rels in particular is guilty of taking anything that a Mafia player could do that doesn't benefit them in any way except to "look Townie" and label it as WIFOM and then ignore it. There's a difference between things a Mafia player can do to look Townie that "don't benefit them" and things they can do to look Townie that "hurt them."
Not all WIFOM is created equal. I could swear this wasn't my coaching QT
Am I here to train you in the strategies that I use to identify power roles, which enabled me to determine that Rels wasn't one? I would somehow have incentive to try and teach you what I know, after you mocked me the last time I tried to help you learn something? It's not like you and Rels are displaying any capacity to absorb knowledge anyway. Go ahead, ask me again, what methodology I used to rule out Rels as a power role.
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On July 30 2015 03:57 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 02:48 n00bKing wrote:On July 30 2015 01:59 Rels wrote:In your situation, I am cop. I said I would check you. I didn't check you. As naturally you would not. Common sense. I don't understand.
I...don't...believe...you.
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On July 30 2015 04:09 n00bKing wrote:Of course it is. You don't have to like an explanation for it to be one. You don't have common sense? Okay. But the fact remains: 0.00% chance that Rels the Cop turns in a check on me. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. There is no chance in hell that check was ever going to happen, after what he posted. And no chance in hell that I (as Scum) could possibly fear it was going to happen, after what he posted. Rels being roleblocked is potent proof that I am Town. Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 03:42 ruXxar wrote:On July 30 2015 02:45 n00bKing wrote:
Again, low chance is not what I said. But yes, I did not explain why he was unlikely to be the Cop because the explanation would be damaging to the Town. If I explain why I believe that Rels ain't no power role in this game, then the Mafia can look at my reasoning and be like "Yeah, that adds up. He's probably right, Rels ain't no power role in this game." That's NOT information I want them to have. So I can't (and didn't) go into the details.
We already have our 2 power role claims. Unless you are EXACTLY the cop, there is no reason you can't tell us. I was speaking of that moment. I can't (and didn't) go into the details at that moment. As for "already have our 2 claims"...what's the matter, ruXxar? Are you scum, and know that Scott is the Cop? And won't be counterclaimed by NocturneMage because he is your scumbuddy? Because that seems to me to be THE ONLY way for you to know that we don't have any more roleclaims coming. Additionally, I am STRONGLY reminded of this post: Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 02:23 ruXxar wrote:On July 29 2015 02:18 n00bKing wrote:
Going to take a minute to explain what I mean when I say "pure WIFOM" as it will be relevant in some of my posts throughout the rest of the game, including the Town Case on Ticktock (if it's needed today) and a Town Case on myself (if it's needed any other day).
If you look at the original WIFOM scenario, in the movie, it is what I would call "pure WIFOM." Disregard Westley's immunity, and the fact that it would turn out both goblets were poisoned. Instead, just consider the game as it is presented to Vizzini (and as it is presented to the audience).
In that scenario, there is really no incentive for the person staging the game to put the poison in one goblet as opposed to the other. There is no advantage or disadvantage to picking one or the other, since the opponent can just switch them. Everything is a pure 50/50, because the person being presented with the choice has NO way of knowing where the poison will be placed, and the person staging the game has NO way of knowing whether the opponent will choose to switch the goblets.
But although that WIFOM scenario was 50/50, not all of them are. Sometimes the person staging the game (in this case, the Mafia) will have incentive to not make a certain choice. And the only reason for them to go ahead and make that choice anyway is to "look Townie." They play against their own agenda, for the sake of hoping that people will think "Since Scum wouldn't want to do that...they must not be Scum." This is not pure WIFOM, because the Mafia has reasons NOT to do that thing. Thus, doing that thing is slighty-to-somewhat Town indicative. Not hugely indicative, because it's still WIFOM. But it isn't NAI, because it isn't pure WIFOM.
A couple of players in this game have made posts that indicate they aren't aware of (or at least aren't factoring in) these varying levels or degrees of WIFOM. Rels in particular is guilty of taking anything that a Mafia player could do that doesn't benefit them in any way except to "look Townie" and label it as WIFOM and then ignore it. There's a difference between things a Mafia player can do to look Townie that "don't benefit them" and things they can do to look Townie that "hurt them."
Not all WIFOM is created equal. I could swear this wasn't my coaching QT Am I here to train you in the strategies that I use to identify power roles, which enabled me to determine that Rels wasn't one? I would somehow have incentive to try and teach you what I know, after you mocked me the last time I tried to help you learn something? It's not like you and Rels are displaying any capacity to absorb knowledge anyway. Go ahead, ask me again, what methodology I used to rule out Rels as a power role.
That's fine, I'll never town-read you until you manage to explain it to me.
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EPT
