|
On August 04 2015 07:54 NocturneMage wrote:
For the townies that played on low post counts or limited time - I am looking at you Sulfurus, Scott, Breshke, how do you people make yourselves look town, or do the town reads take time?
Posting off mobile is annoying as fuck sometimes but I really don't have a choice.
I read your filter and I knew by the third post you were 1000% mafia but a lot of that was OGI and the fact your real life personality didn't sync up with the way you played the game. Your activity was NAI because your work schedule prevents you from spamming all day. Fine. But your tone was really suspect although to your credit you managed to fool most before end of d2.
The non-OGI read was touched on by most - your voting day 1 and day 2 were bad, and I think even Scott was on to you about your day 1 voting. (I'll obviously ignore the fall-off in activity because it was likely it would have gotten you mislynched as town.) As mafia you need to push any scum reads more than you did, or as a low-post count player, you need to at the very least follow up on questions that you are pushing people with. I read your filter after you got lynched, and I noticed you did nothing with questions you asked Tictock and that he failed to answer. So take advantage of the little things too.
When I'm limited for time as either alignment, I put priority on the players being discussed plus my top scumreads, and you did that to some extent. And then after reading more, I make the call. You did question why Sulfurus wasn't being pushed harder, the problem for you day 2 was switching to Scott before you actually fleshed him out. (Nevermind you having to AFK 90 minutes before EoD.)
|
On August 04 2015 08:13 geript wrote:
Also, to all newbies who are trying to use meta. Stop. Don't do it. It's a trap. This is what I told Disinfo in the coaching QT:
Honestly, don't waste time trying to meta for at least a year. It takes a long while before you understand how meta actually even works. You see, meta is a trap. You think it's a beautiful Asian chick in those amazing school girl outfits with the typical anime hair. Then you realize it's not a chick at all and you done fucked up. Trust me, I use meta all the time and I've become exceptionally more careful how I utilize it. You won't know or even realize what to look for until you really see people play for a while (or spend time fucking up and learn it that way).
100%.
I tried to meta Rasputin in Gaiden. That did not end well for me at all. >_<
|
It honestly doesn't matter what I felt about the situation of lying or hiding information in pretty meh about the subject.
I just don't think it makes anyone mafia being caught in a lie, townies want to inherently look good or they lose track and contradict themselves don't want to make themselves look bad etc. All these things happen much more often than town then they do scum.
And even though noob was scum I don't think this argument made him scum. Like even your staunchest supporters in a nk lynch were willing to leave when he answered simple questions. This means the argument is flawed and other things are needed to get people to stick.
The way he acted d2 is excellent et. And I would of lynched him with you for that but not for hiding information.
|
On August 04 2015 08:19 Damdred wrote:
It honestly doesn't matter what I felt about the situation of lying or hiding information in pretty meh about the subject.
I just don't think it makes anyone mafia being caught in a lie, townies want to inherently look good or they lose track and contradict themselves don't want to make themselves look bad etc. All these things happen much more often than town then they do scum.
And even though noob was scum I don't think this argument made him scum. Like even your staunchest supporters in a nk lynch were willing to leave when he answered simple questions. This means the argument is flawed and other things are needed to get people to stick.
The way he acted d2 is excellent et. And I would of lynched him with you for that but not for hiding information.
It's not whether or not they lie, but that they keep lying and hiding information when asked to clarift and refuse to answer a question that cleary is bullshit.
He kept saying how he had a "damaging reason" to not reveal why he thought the way he did about rels being cop.
It was so convoluted that it didn't make sense at all.
When asked to come forth with this information he simply refused.
If he was town he had absolutely no reason to hide that information when asked for it.
|
On August 04 2015 08:19 Damdred wrote:
It honestly doesn't matter what I felt about the situation of lying or hiding information in pretty meh about the subject.
I just don't think it makes anyone mafia being caught in a lie, townies want to inherently look good or they lose track and contradict themselves don't want to make themselves look bad etc. All these things happen much more often than town then they do scum.
And even though noob was scum I don't think this argument made him scum. Like even your staunchest supporters in a nk lynch were willing to leave when he answered simple questions. This means the argument is flawed and other things are needed to get people to stick.
The way he acted d2 is excellent et. And I would of lynched him with you for that but not for hiding information.
How I remember him acting around D2/N2/D3 I didn't think was fantastic or terrible. As it went on though, I thought how he approached the situation became scummier and scummier.
|
On August 04 2015 08:21 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2015 08:19 Damdred wrote:
It honestly doesn't matter what I felt about the situation of lying or hiding information in pretty meh about the subject.
I just don't think it makes anyone mafia being caught in a lie, townies want to inherently look good or they lose track and contradict themselves don't want to make themselves look bad etc. All these things happen much more often than town then they do scum.
And even though noob was scum I don't think this argument made him scum. Like even your staunchest supporters in a nk lynch were willing to leave when he answered simple questions. This means the argument is flawed and other things are needed to get people to stick.
The way he acted d2 is excellent et. And I would of lynched him with you for that but not for hiding information. It's not whether or not they lie, but that they keep lying and hiding information when asked to clarift and refuse to answer a question that cleary is bullshit. He kept saying how he had a "damaging reason" to not reveal why he thought the way he did about rels being cop. It was so convoluted that it didn't make sense at all. When asked to come forth with this information he simply refused. If he was town he had absolutely no reason to hide that information when asked for it.
The thing you need to understand is that bullshit questions do nothing. It doesn't matter if you're right. Like I can't sell you a beer based on the fact that they only buy hops at the end of summer from Nevada farms which use chick shit as a natural fertilizer. Bad arguments even if correct, don't sell your read.
Mafia is a two part game. First reading the game/situation correctly and second selling your view of the game/situation so that other people buy it.
|
I mean I flated out in no uncertain terms told him that if he wanted to be town read by me, he had to answer my questions.
He quite clearly was not interested in having a conversation, and instead resorted to trying to diminish my credibility.
I think if I was not pushing n00bking so hard he would've had a fair shot at living at least a couple days more.
I think breshke, me and sulfurus could've all been lynched before him.
|
Town do extremely stupid things, and I was wrong for defending him bit I was extremely sure about my lynch that I was unable to push through the day before which had a large part to do with it.
Geripts right he did get scummier as time passes and like I said you and rayn had a good read and mine came from looking at it after I lynched his partner shrug.
But I still don't think the argument is strong enough, what would of happened if he would of answered in a coherent fashion? Rels would of fell off the wagon potentially and Scott possibly also.
|
On August 04 2015 08:24 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2015 08:21 ruXxar wrote:On August 04 2015 08:19 Damdred wrote:
It honestly doesn't matter what I felt about the situation of lying or hiding information in pretty meh about the subject.
I just don't think it makes anyone mafia being caught in a lie, townies want to inherently look good or they lose track and contradict themselves don't want to make themselves look bad etc. All these things happen much more often than town then they do scum.
And even though noob was scum I don't think this argument made him scum. Like even your staunchest supporters in a nk lynch were willing to leave when he answered simple questions. This means the argument is flawed and other things are needed to get people to stick.
The way he acted d2 is excellent et. And I would of lynched him with you for that but not for hiding information. It's not whether or not they lie, but that they keep lying and hiding information when asked to clarift and refuse to answer a question that cleary is bullshit. He kept saying how he had a "damaging reason" to not reveal why he thought the way he did about rels being cop. It was so convoluted that it didn't make sense at all. When asked to come forth with this information he simply refused. If he was town he had absolutely no reason to hide that information when asked for it. The thing you need to understand is that bullshit questions do nothing. It doesn't matter if you're right. Like I can't sell you a beer based on the fact that they only buy hops at the end of summer from Nevada farms which use chick shit as a natural fertilizer. Bad arguments even if correct, don't sell your read. Mafia is a two part game. First reading the game/situation correctly and second selling your view of the game/situation so that other people buy it.
I wasn't really interested interested in selling anything as much as I was in just people observing the way n00bking was responding to the pressure put on him.
It was like dead obvious from my point of view that he was mafia, because his play made no sense at all from a meta standpoint of n00bking(and I have very high regard for town n00bking).
|
On August 04 2015 08:26 Damdred wrote:
Town do extremely stupid things, and I was wrong for defending him bit I was extremely sure about my lynch that I was unable to push through the day before which had a large part to do with it.
Geripts right he did get scummier as time passes and like I said you and rayn had a good read and mine came from looking at it after I lynched his partner shrug.
But I still don't think the argument is strong enough, what would of happened if he would of answered in a coherent fashion? Rels would of fell off the wagon potentially and Scott possibly also.
Well he tried and he actually convinced rels when he said that his secret information was that "he was waiting for nocturne to role claim", which was like the most BS reason ever.
And the fact is that when no one else(and I asked everyone repeatedly to try to explain his logic) and I mean NO ONE was able to even come close to make sense of what he said, then he's either :
1) bad town with bad logic unwilling to admit he's wrong(shitty town / mafia sided town)
2) Mafia not wanting to lose town credibility to be able to push through lynches.
|
Like, I don't like bringing up the meta point, but I feel like n00bking is one of my strongest meta reads, and he was just off all game to me.
And I wasn't the only one to point it out, moosy did to.
He was simply too warm and jovial, and in my own words:
"town n00bking is like a shiny dodecahedron".
That in itself doesn't make him mafia, but it makes him something else than town unless his meta shifted significantly since the last time we played.
After that he just made illogical pushes that I in no way related to the sharp and logical mind of n00bking.
It was my fault for not seeing the connection of him defending nocturne, and just saw it as him trying to attack rels.
I only realized this after the fact that nocturne got lynched, but it should've been quite obvious.
|
On August 04 2015 08:27 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2015 08:24 geript wrote:On August 04 2015 08:21 ruXxar wrote:On August 04 2015 08:19 Damdred wrote:
It honestly doesn't matter what I felt about the situation of lying or hiding information in pretty meh about the subject.
I just don't think it makes anyone mafia being caught in a lie, townies want to inherently look good or they lose track and contradict themselves don't want to make themselves look bad etc. All these things happen much more often than town then they do scum.
And even though noob was scum I don't think this argument made him scum. Like even your staunchest supporters in a nk lynch were willing to leave when he answered simple questions. This means the argument is flawed and other things are needed to get people to stick.
The way he acted d2 is excellent et. And I would of lynched him with you for that but not for hiding information. It's not whether or not they lie, but that they keep lying and hiding information when asked to clarift and refuse to answer a question that cleary is bullshit. He kept saying how he had a "damaging reason" to not reveal why he thought the way he did about rels being cop. It was so convoluted that it didn't make sense at all. When asked to come forth with this information he simply refused. If he was town he had absolutely no reason to hide that information when asked for it. The thing you need to understand is that bullshit questions do nothing. It doesn't matter if you're right. Like I can't sell you a beer based on the fact that they only buy hops at the end of summer from Nevada farms which use chick shit as a natural fertilizer. Bad arguments even if correct, don't sell your read. Mafia is a two part game. First reading the game/situation correctly and second selling your view of the game/situation so that other people buy it. I wasn't really interested interested in selling anything as much as I was in just people observing the way n00bking was responding to the pressure put on him. It was like dead obvious from my point of view that he was mafia, because his play made no sense at all from a meta standpoint of n00bking(and I have very high regard for town n00bking).
1. Don't use meta yet.
2. It's fine to want people to observe how he reacts. But you'll get more bang for your buck if you get both their observations of his reaction AND get to understand/absorb your reasons for scumreading him.
Selling a read isn't easy, trust me I know. Quite often I have very good reads that I struggle to explain (when I'm not in the game); idk why it is but being an observer usually makes it easier to explain my reads.
|
On August 04 2015 08:36 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2015 08:27 ruXxar wrote:On August 04 2015 08:24 geript wrote:On August 04 2015 08:21 ruXxar wrote:On August 04 2015 08:19 Damdred wrote:
It honestly doesn't matter what I felt about the situation of lying or hiding information in pretty meh about the subject.
I just don't think it makes anyone mafia being caught in a lie, townies want to inherently look good or they lose track and contradict themselves don't want to make themselves look bad etc. All these things happen much more often than town then they do scum.
And even though noob was scum I don't think this argument made him scum. Like even your staunchest supporters in a nk lynch were willing to leave when he answered simple questions. This means the argument is flawed and other things are needed to get people to stick.
The way he acted d2 is excellent et. And I would of lynched him with you for that but not for hiding information. It's not whether or not they lie, but that they keep lying and hiding information when asked to clarift and refuse to answer a question that cleary is bullshit. He kept saying how he had a "damaging reason" to not reveal why he thought the way he did about rels being cop. It was so convoluted that it didn't make sense at all. When asked to come forth with this information he simply refused. If he was town he had absolutely no reason to hide that information when asked for it. The thing you need to understand is that bullshit questions do nothing. It doesn't matter if you're right. Like I can't sell you a beer based on the fact that they only buy hops at the end of summer from Nevada farms which use chick shit as a natural fertilizer. Bad arguments even if correct, don't sell your read. Mafia is a two part game. First reading the game/situation correctly and second selling your view of the game/situation so that other people buy it. I wasn't really interested interested in selling anything as much as I was in just people observing the way n00bking was responding to the pressure put on him. It was like dead obvious from my point of view that he was mafia, because his play made no sense at all from a meta standpoint of n00bking(and I have very high regard for town n00bking). 1. Don't use meta yet. 2. It's fine to want people to observe how he reacts. But you'll get more bang for your buck if you get both their observations of his reaction AND get to understand/absorb your reasons for scumreading him. Selling a read isn't easy, trust me I know. Quite often I have very good reads that I struggle to explain (when I'm not in the game); idk why it is but being an observer usually makes it easier to explain my reads.
I know I didn't play my A game this game.
I was pretty lazy and didn't feel like doing any big cases really.
I don't know if that's just a natural trends as you play mafia you get less and less inclined to actually filter dive and post big cases and just go mostly off feeling and easily observable suspicious behaviors / vote logic etc.
|
As you get into more vet games you will find most huge cases get ignored because peoples attention can't be kept usually two paragraphs can get somone lynched
|
That's not true. Huge cases don't get wholly ignored. The thing is that most of the time, huge cases are like assigned 20 page papers, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing. TBH, most of the best cases I've seen have basically been short, concise tl;dr versions of cases. More could be said, and it's useful to talk about things that people don't get or disagree with; but in general, big points that quickly read/understood tend to be more effective than a quarter page post that spends time to explain every little thing extra thoroughly.
|
On August 04 2015 08:44 Damdred wrote:
As you get into more vet games you will find most huge cases get ignored because peoples attention can't be kept usually two paragraphs can get somone lynched
#truth.
I pretty much skimmed all the big posts and jus reds all the small ones.
I'm going to practice on just being concise.
Small direct posts seem to be key.
The only reason to post big posts is so people will town read you for effort, not really the content.
|
As a matter of fact, when it comes to big cases and such; usually I just skim them to find the good points and see what I like/dislike about it in general. Often I can make a better case just summarizing the good points and pushing those with my own added points.
|
On August 04 2015 08:51 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2015 08:44 Damdred wrote:
As you get into more vet games you will find most huge cases get ignored because peoples attention can't be kept usually two paragraphs can get somone lynched #truth. I pretty much skimmed all the big posts and jus reds all the small ones. I'm going to practice on just being concise. Small direct posts seem to be key. The only reason to post big posts is so people will town read you for effort, not really the content.
It's honestly never about post size. It's about make a post easily readable. Sometimes when I only want to make a few posts per day, I'll have these huge posts at the end of which I'll summarize the important reads and give a short "here's where I'm at" list. That way, people can look through and refer to your thought process as it's relevant.
There's no one "right" way of posting. Lots of players have lots of different styles from extra spammy to rather terse. It's about finding the comfort zone for you where you be the most effective.
|
On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote:
I read this game mostly in passing, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I forget why I thought Barakos was a good lynch D1, but there was a really good reason that a bunch of people (even a vet or two) missed that someone had posted. Regardless, the result of his lynch (because it was so lopsided) should basically be ignored. It's both possible and probable that he was bussed so for the most part, no one should think that anyone on that wagon is town for being on or starting the wagon.
The NK was a good choice, but in games where roleblocking a Veteran prevents their bulletproof vest from going off, then mafia should heavily consider "burying" the RB on the NK. The setup is random equally split between Medic and Veteran, but it's usually correct to err on the side of Veteran because Medics do crazy shit sometimes; or Medics guess wrong. Another good reason to "bury" the RB is because this setup states that RB's are notified and should the NK flip anything but Veteran, then you can have a plan for mafia to claim the RB for town cred later.
The D2 lynch was really bad. I didn't keep notes, but I remember thinking that TickTock was almost assuredly town. That said, how both mafia treated this lynch was really terrible. It's fine to townread someone who's about to get lynched. But neither had a good reason for it and and both looked really terrible for it AND for not really organizing a counter wagon. The 5 off the wagon looked significantly more suspect than the 7 on the wagon.
Somewhere around here, Ruxxar got into a big fight with n00bKing and MoosyDoosy stepped in to townshield his read. There's nothing wrong with any of this. However, how n00bKing approached the situation was not how a towny would whatsoever. He didn't want to really explain things and the explanations he gave were really piss poor. In addition, he was quite happy to let Moosy townshield the hell out of him while n00bKing proceeded to do practically nothing except continue to stir the pot between Mossy and Ruxxar. 99% of the time, Moosy is just a townie with a really bad read that he firmly believes in and n00bKing is mafia. Also fwiw, I think there were some pretty decent points made in cases against n00bKing this day (I can't remember whose were the best but I think disinformation, ruxxar and Rels all had some good points).
D3 had a bunch of random things happen; not all of which I remember. But n00bking made a major mistake by not being on the nocturnemage wagon or not securing the sulfurous lynch. The 4-3-2 division where scum is lynched, generally means that mafia isn't on the wagon. So it basically stated that mafia was between Rels, disinformation, n00bKing and Ruxxar. Disinformation and Rels had both been really towny throughout the game. When you go back and look at the votes, Ruxxar's been wrong all game. Both n00bKing and NocturneMage were late on the D1 bus and then acted oddly around the D2 lynch. So the last mafia is probably n00bKing.
Regarding N3. So mafia chose to roleblock himself and apparently forgot that the rules stated that KP was hand delivered. If I were the host, I would've let the KP go through because there isn't any potential setup with a town RB/JK/tracker so KP is essentially factional. Even still, mafia should've roleblocked the cop and shot him; he'll be dead and you can claim whatever the fuck you want (although claiming the RB there is pretty dumb because it will convince no one). I don't think it would've changed the outcome of the game because I find it hard considering thread sentiment and such that n00bKing wouldn't have been lynched; but he might have been able to avoid 1 day's worth of lynching.
Either way, I'll be hanging out in the TLmafia teamspeak channel for a while if anyone want to talk about the game some more.
yo this doesn't say anything.
|
Don't get me wrong though I do love reading long posts why someone is mafia and hope the points convince me XD
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
