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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: Why should i care about your advice either? Because apparently you are bad. idk, do not take it, i dont care.. you certainly do not do what you are told to so you will not anyways. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because apparently you are bad. idk, do not take it, i dont care.. you certainly do not do what you are told to so you will not anyways. I am very open to suggestions about how to play Mafia so long as they are not phrased as: u suck l2p | ||
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Breshke
Australia3749 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: I was trying to do that at some points but gave up later on lol. I also knew where this was going because I was actually very reasonable in our first game together but he refused to listen. In this one I just saved time and bashed him earlier. Ruxxar is one player though so I don't see why you would stop pushing your reads because of him | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: I say whatever I want as town because I am town and it's your fault for not seeing that I'm hunting for scum. In my very first newbie game, I was practically in a scum mindset even though I was town because I wanted to look town so bad. In this game and my second one I said whatever I wanted and let my actions speak for themselves. Like sure my behavior looks bad but if you look at the content of my posts you can tell that I'm town. Same concept with TicTock. He raised decent points against me which made me hard townread him. I regret that I refused to re-read n00bKing at a certain point and I've realized the scum mindset of letting others townshield. But part of that was because Rels + ruXxar absolutely refused to budge and acted like my opinions didn't matter. If you look at Page 92 and 93, I CLEARLY refute ruXxar's points but he refuses to listen. Like, what is the point of posting if you aren't going to listen. In my second Mafia game, everyone listened to each other and although the talk was slow, it was fruitful because everyone was considering and re-considering. Here, ruXxar/Rels got too tunneled and disformation/Damdred weren't around anywhere to stop them. Here's the thing that's hard to remember in the moment. Even when you say whatever you want as town, it doesn't make what he's doing wrong. He had a bad read on you. But how you approached that read, made it exceptionally hard for him to get out of his biased read. Being tunneled and biased can be quite hard to get away from; and it takes both players working together to end that situation generally. It's honestly both your faults imo, but I had no stake in the issue so that's easy for me to see. To be fair, ruXxar/Rels got tunneled on mafia for a mix of good and bad reasons. You got tunneled on a bad read which drug the whole issue out in a really negative way. Like if you had evaluated some of their reasons, you could've gotten out of your bad read. If n00bKing was town, if you had approached them differently then you potentially could have prevented a mislynch by being able to explain your read in a way they could understand and relate to. Trust me, me and Rayn are two of the more cockshore, shoot from the hip, likely-to-shoot-off-for-no-good-reason type of guys around at this point. But if you want to improve, then you need to understand that how you approach the game and other players (even when you're town) makes a major difference on how effective you are. I can't speak for Rayn, but I know that Artanis has said this about me and it's something that I've noted about myself. I play much better when I don't emotionally invest heavily into a game. When I'm at my best, I give very few fucks about it. When I get that invested, it's easy to slip into an awful tunnel that I can and should find my way out of. Part of that is listening to other players, both the ones you're arguing with at the time and other players observing you. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:42 geript wrote: Here's the thing that's hard to remember in the moment. Even when you say whatever you want as town, it doesn't make what he's doing wrong. He had a bad read on you. But how you approached that read, made it exceptionally hard for him to get out of his biased read. Being tunneled and biased can be quite hard to get away from; and it takes both players working together to end that situation generally. It's honestly both your faults imo, but I had no stake in the issue so that's easy for me to see. To be fair, ruXxar/Rels got tunneled on mafia for a mix of good and bad reasons. You got tunneled on a bad read which drug the whole issue out in a really negative way. Like if you had evaluated some of their reasons, you could've gotten out of your bad read. If n00bKing was town, if you had approached them differently then you potentially could have prevented a mislynch by being able to explain your read in a way they could understand and relate to. Trust me, me and Rayn are two of the more cockshore, shoot from the hip, likely-to-shoot-off-for-no-good-reason type of guys around at this point. But if you want to improve, then you need to understand that how you approach the game and other players (even when you're town) makes a major difference on how effective you are. I can't speak for Rayn, but I know that Artanis has said this about me and it's something that I've noted about myself. I play much better when I don't emotionally invest heavily into a game. When I'm at my best, I give very few fucks about it. When I get that invested, it's easy to slip into an awful tunnel that I can and should find my way out of. Part of that is listening to other players, both the ones you're arguing with at the time and other players observing you. Thank you. So long as ruXxar is willing to re-evaluate his reads and not throw them aside like garbage I will do the same as well. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:40 Breshke wrote: Ruxxar is one player though so I don't see why you would stop pushing your reads because of him I don't know. Maybe because the only players posting the whole time were ruXxar/Rels while you were literally nonexistent. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
can't speak for Rayn, but I know that Artanis has said this about me and it's something that I've noted about myself. I play much better when I don't emotionally invest heavily into a game. yes you seem to be the same Moosy. Take a break, read, and then post. You so not need to tunnel someone you think is bad. It almost got you lynched two days in a row. Now what does that tell you? Take a break from a game and re-evaluate. Come back with a leveled head. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: yes you seem to be the same Moosy. Take a break, read, and then post. You so not need to tunnel someone you think is bad. It almost got you lynched two days in a row. Now what does that tell you? Take a break from a game and re-evaluate. Come back with a leveled head. Yeah. And I've decided to play my next game from a scum mindset of making myself look as townie as possible. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:55 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah. And I've decided to play my next game from a scum mindset of making myself look as townie as possible. FWIW, I've found that taking a good 8-12 hour break from the game before doing a full reread helps clear my head so I can find my own biases and get out of bad tunnels. It seems to work for a bunch of players I've known. Over time, it usually takes less time to realize when you're getting into a bad tunnel. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote: Somewhere around here, Ruxxar got into a big fight with n00bKing and MoosyDoosy stepped in to townshield his read. There's nothing wrong with any of this. However, how n00bKing approached the situation was not how a towny would whatsoever. He didn't want to really explain things and the explanations he gave were really piss poor. I mentally checked out of this game after Barakos left us high and dry on Day 1. I have never had a Mafia teammate just completely bail on a game like that, and it instantly killed about 85% of my motivation. At some point, Rels said something about how only NocturneMage could still counterclaim Scott. And I said no, Breshke could too, because he was afk at the end of Day 2 as well. And Rels pointed out that actually, Breshke had been around, and had made multiple posts at the end of Day 2. That's when people should have realized I wasn't reading the thread. By Day 2, I was not paying attention to any posts that didn't have my name in them. If you weren't talking TO me or ABOUT me, your post is getting skipped. lol I also kept waiting to get caught on BS I was talking about the meta of other players from other games. I especially talked a lot about how I had just gone and re-read Sulfurus' filter from this game or that game, and noticed this difference or that difference. None of that re-reading actually happened, I was just making things up, from a combination of memory and whatever I wanted people to think at the time. So I'm sure you're right that my posts didn't match for how a Townie would be thinking. But...I wasn't thinking. I was just typing whatever came to mind. Especially once the filters disappeared. If Barakos killed 85% of my motivation, losing the filters killed the other 15%. I would have actually gone through with making a scum case on Breshke, showing the association case that makes him Mage's teammate, but...not without the filters. I just typed a couple of things I could remember, found a quote or two, and that's it. Damdred kept saying he could tell that I didn't care whether I was lynched, and that he thought it was a Town mindset. He was absolutely correct that I didn't care whether I was lynched, it just wasn't for the reasons he imagined. On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote: D3 had a bunch of random things happen; not all of which I remember. But n00bking made a major mistake by not being on the nocturnemage wagon or not securing the sulfurous lynch. I did my part to secure the Sulfurus lynch. It was Mage's job to move to Sulfurus and make it 6-2 against Sulf, so that even 2 vote switches wouldn't save him. Since Mage didn't move, 2 vote switches would do it. But I didn't leave until :59 went to :00 on my laptop, and NEITHER of those vote switches had happened. So I leave for my birthday dinner, come back 4 hours later, and see that like 5 more posts were made after the time my laptop read :00. But they are all timestamped :59 so they counted, and they included the 2 vote switches that saved Sulfurus after I left (though again, it would have taken 3 vote switches in that final minute, if Mage had moved to Sulfurus for self-preservation). On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote: Regarding N3. So mafia chose to roleblock himself and apparently forgot that the rules stated that KP was hand delivered. Noooooooo. The rules do NOT say that. The rules don't actually say one way or the other. But this is a copy & paste of the ruleset from Newbie XII, where we had it specifically clarified that the KP is factional, and not delivered by an individual. If you look toward the end of the Scum thread for this game, you'll find the discussion between myself, GB and LS on this topic, and where I discover the reason why this setup is supposed to use factional KP. The Mafia is forced to attack every Night in this setup, they aren't allowed to withhold the KP, and that's to prevent a scenario where the Town keeps No Lynching and the Mafia keeps not attacking, and the game runs forever. But if the Mafia roleblocks the attacker, it would violate this principle and hence, the KP is supposed to be factional. That's probably why it was factional (using an identical ruleset) in Newbie XII. And I expect that if LS were to immediately run another game using this ruleset, he would edit the Rules so that they clearly state the KP is factional. LS had made one mention of choosing our attacker, earlier in the Scum QT. But I hadn't seen it (again, I checked out of the game at the end of Day 1). On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote: Even still, mafia should've roleblocked the cop and shot him; he'll be dead and you can claim whatever the fuck you want (although claiming the RB there is pretty dumb because it will convince no one). I agree claiming the RB is dumb. So there is no reason to roleblock the Cop, since that is indeed who I chose to kill. There is no reason to roleblock ANY of the Town players. So I roleblocked myself for fun, because who cares? There's no one else to roleblock. I even gave my reasoning for the RB in the Scum QT. It says "cuz why not?" since there is no Town player that it does me any good to roleblock. It was never my intent to claim the block. There's just no reason not to roleblock myself, since I "know" from the previous game (which used an identical setup) that the KP is delivered factionally. When LS prevented the KP, I argued against his REASONING. But I didn't get angry about it, since...I had checked out of the game at the end of Day 1. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:07 ruXxar wrote: I want to also apologize if people found my play style offensive. I harbor no I'll will towards anyone for what they said or did in the game(moosy plz I love u <3) This might be my favorite post in the thread. Moosy demands your address so that he can come and murder you in your home. And you apologize and ask for forgiveness. :D | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On August 04 2015 10:52 n00bKing wrote: This might be my favorite post in the thread. Moosy demands your address so that he can come and murder you in your home. And you apologize and ask for forgiveness. :D Not to mention he makes several bad manner posts saying the game is over and sweeping everything I say under the rug. <3 I just love the kid. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Besides, looking at the game objectively Moosy and myself were Wildcards that needed to be dealt with at some point. Speaking of cards... My best reads were actually when I was doing my tarot stuff. But... besides that all my reads were pretty shit. I think I felt pressured to look like town so I started reading through stuff trying to find something which is never a good way to go. Regardless I think I need to rethink my approach. I think Rels wins MvP this game imo. Pretty sure he was on all 3 mafia D1 and I owe him an apology for calling his opening read on Noc "forced" since it panned out (though I'm not sold that it's a solid way to scumread people). Rayn also was quite astute and picked out Bara and noob early on, despite getting a bit tunneled on me. Wonder what happened to Bara? Hope he's ok. @Ruxx You asked but I never answered. I picked all the tarot cards like I would if I were trying to do a real tarot reading. I'd open up the players filters, read through their posts while shuffling, then draw their card while thinking about their mentality. I only actually talked about the readings I got from your card and Dis's as well as the 2 I started with (that the images seem glitched on) but looking back on them they were all solid reads. If I had taken it more seriously the cards I drew for Noc and n00b were actually fairly strong scum indicators to me, but I never expected anyone to believe that. We may or may not have seen the last of me trying to mix Tarot and Mafia... Respect to LS and BM for hosting. LS especially as he had to make a few hard decisions this game. Also it looked like the tracker was giving you guys some trouble so that's a bit rough. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
A big thank to LS for hosting and BM for co-hosting. LS especially, you had to make hard decisions for your first hosting, and you really gave your best for the game to run smoothly. Thanks to rsoultin too! My coach (= you were super helpful and got me thinking about dumb things that don't make people mafia. Wow didn't plan for this post to become one comment / player, I'll do a list so it's easier to read. rayn: godly reads as always, it's a pleasure to play with you 'cause you can summarize what you think in a few sentences that just makes sense. See you next game! Damdred: the voice of reason and logic. I loved playing with you 'cause you clearly took the time to read other people' arguments and speak your mind when they were shit, but back them up when they were good. Disfo: townread! To me, you are the town sentiment incarnated in a person. I don't know how you do that, but in the two games I played with you, you very seldom have opinions that are against the thread sentiment; but you are so townie that I feel we're on the right track. Can't wait to see your first mafia game, I have no idea how you're going to replicate that attitude. (= BTW, I felt pretty bad for you when you did that huuuge bad listing all of moosy's opinion changes, and he got modkilled the very next post. =D ruxxar: my soulmate! We had almost the same reads all game, and it was a real pleasure playing with you. This game I tried to not tunnel and re evaluate constantly, so having you tunnel hardcore the reads we shared was just perfect so we could have two different approaches. Pretty stocked to play again with you, I hope we're town together again to do that! Breshke: you were always at the end of my POE list. p: As you said, as a low count poster you have to find mafia or you're getting killed, and fortunately that's exactly what you did. I have much trouble reading you so I hope you're not mafia the next time we play together. Sulfurus: I admired the way you still scumhunted even though every people had you at some point in their POE list. And that really paid off; a little lazier and you would have been lynched D3 instead of NM. Sorry for voting you, NM was my prefered lynch but I followed my town reads switching, and like Disfo I didn't have time to switch back on a phone. If you would have been killed I would have been very mad at myself. p: TicTock: very sorry to have lynched you. You backing off scott even though that probably meant your lynch was really town indicative. I feel that was my biggest mistake that game; like Damdred advocated, we really should have lynched NM with his 3-posts-then-leave a few hours before EOD, or I should have pushed noobking who I was sure was mafia at the time. Thanks for the kind works too. (= Moosy: so angry at you. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, the way you behaved this game was super toxic. Of course, it isn't helped by the fact that you were dead wrong on that noobking godly read. And I'm not talking about only D2. If I was the host, I would have warned you D1 when you clearly stated you thought ruxxar was a stupid person unable to have smart thoughts. The way you treated people, and especially ruxxar who played a million times better than you, is sooo bad, and I'm shocked Damdred tought a warning was fine. Plus you whining about people not reading your posts; WTF, you cannot answer every accusation by "I'm mafia" and some versions of "you're tard" and expect people to read what you wrote. Furthermore, your martyring was hilarious. Especially complaining about me being tunneled. If you have read the game, you would have seen that Breshke (that was voting you along with diso) asked me whom of noobking and moosy was 100% mafia, and I clearly stated noobking was, and that if I was wrong on moosy NM was the last mafia. Finally, your post-game posts not being "I apologize" but "I won't play with ruxxar again unless he changed" is the last drop. Never playing with you again. Flexes/scott: Flexes, I townread you for your first two posts. Too bad you had to go. scott, you're so lucky Flexes was cop or you would have been lynched 100%. p: Not your fault though; Flexes afking most of D1 was the biggest thing against you. Now about the mafia team: Barakos: well, super sorry for you to be killed over your first two posts. (= Your excuse of "it was a trap" was so unbelievable though. NocturneMage: well play for a first game. (= Your first batch of posts were really incriminating (prepared first post + constanstly asking questions), but susbsequent ones were good! I saw on the mafia QT that you had your fake reads displayed HTS style, it was pretty cool. Really though, it showed that you were afraid of posting. You not coming back after voting scott was super bad I feel. After that, you would have been lynched at some point before the end of the game no question. Anyway, good job and I know it was partly not your fault you had to AFK too much. Hope you roll town next game so you're more relaxed. (= noobking: well fucking play. Two times I was convinced 100% you were scum, and two times you managed to make me doubt: D2 early, I decided you were cop, and D3 I liked your analysis of NM and Breshke. Really though, there were no way you were not getting lynched with your shitting the thread and probability defenses. p: I was sooo sure only you could separate the shot and the rb N1 in a vet setupt over some math explanation! Your big post about probability in the mafia QT made me smile. (= I saw you said a big scumtell was that you only answered people talking about you; it's a little bit true but your big analysis of Sulfu, NM and Breshke were super good too. Anyway, well play. And for myself: I'm pretty happy about my play. At the start of the game, I applied what ritoki taught me about the differences between town and scum first post, and it really fucking works; in the HolyFlare game, I had doubts about a mafia early (JohnnyLaw) with his first post; in this game, I had doubts about NM and Barakos early for their first posts. I tried to be less tunneled than before this game. That worked fucking well because I had townreads pushing reads we shared (Damdred / rayn) and a soulmate tunneling for me (ruxxar). That also caused me to re evaluate on Sulfurus, Breshke and noobking, so I suppose I have to be careful; but I think it's way better to doubt your scumreads than to tunnel a town all game. In particular, I know that a few games ago, I would have tunneled Sulfurus hardcore all game long. I'm also pretty pleased with my VCA. Once again, I applied what ritoki taught me, but this time I managed to get good info from votecounts. I was also confirmed by the fact that diso also did good VCA and had some similar conclusions. My D3 vote on Sulfurus was not a mistake. NM was a much better lynch for me, but I consolidated with Damdred and had no time to switch back on phone. But I would have been super angry if NM survived because of me! My big mistake was the TT tunneling and vote. Rereading the day after, it was crystal clear TT was town for the way he handled the scott votes; he was the first to switch when scott claimed, even though that probably meant his death. I really should have pushed a NM lynch with Damdred. I was also 100% convinced noobking was mafia since he wasn't cop, so I could have tried to push him too. Don't think that would have worked though. For a game where I tried to not tunnel too much, I really tunneled TT at the end of D2. A french word: voilà! It was a pleasure playing with all of you (except Moosy), so see you next game. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On August 04 2015 08:13 geript wrote: Also, to all newbies who are trying to use meta. Stop. Don't do it. It's a trap. This is what I told Disinfo in the coaching QT: Honestly, don't waste time trying to meta for at least a year. It takes a long while before you understand how meta actually even works. You see, meta is a trap. You think it's a beautiful Asian chick in those amazing school girl outfits with the typical anime hair. Then you realize it's not a chick at all and you done fucked up. Trust me, I use meta all the time and I've become exceptionally more careful how I utilize it. You won't know or even realize what to look for until you really see people play for a while (or spend time fucking up and learn it that way). LOL | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On August 04 2015 07:00 LightningStrike wrote: F. I willing to talk to everyone on Teamspeak about this game tomorrow morning at Deadline time 22:00 GMT (+00:00) Pretty late for me but will try to be there! | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14276 Posts
I meant Night idk why I wrote morning maybe it was because of trying to work around the time zones and stuff for both USA and Europe lol. | ||
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